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/sci/ - Science & Math

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4170687 No.4170687 [Reply] [Original]

If i die, And all brain function stops. If they were to somehow reboot my brain, Would it be the same itteration of my conciousness? Would i.. wake up?

>> No.4171123

I often think about this kind of thing when people talk about teleportation. You must be completely destroyed to be teleported through space (time?) and re-assembled at the other end. Techincally, you are dead and gone, and an exact replica of you (hopefully) perfect in every detail appears at the other end. The "new you" does not know he is actually dead, but the original is actually dead. The "new you" is a completely different person.

>> No.4171134

>>4171123
That's kind of scary to think about. How would "you" know that it's still "you" when you're teleported if the new you has all of your memories?

>> No.4171135
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>> No.4171145

Well, assuming that memories are held in EM charges within your neurons, and that death releases all these charges, your brain would be totally blank and therefore incapable of rebooting.

>> No.4171173

>>4171145
True, but I think memories are a little more solid than that. Changes in receptor density, transmitter release, size and shape of dendritic spines, all might last for quite some time after death (and could theortically be copied exactly), memory isn't held in charge like computer ram.

>> No.4171190

>>4171134
The "new you" would have no reason to disbeleive that it was the same exact person, but the truth is that the new you is a copy.

Thats why that shwarzeneger movie where he is a pilot always freaked me. The main guy makes an exact copy of himself, then kills his old self. Wierd.

>> No.4171193

>>4171173
Maybe so, but I would imagine that the brain is fragile enough and charge-dependent enough that the absence of charge within it would destroy enough of its "programming" (so to speak) that it would be unrescuable.

>> No.4171204

Sorry OP, the answer to your question is that you'd be the exact same person

>> No.4171208

>>4171190
So the current me would be essentially dead, and I would cease to exist from my own current perspective? Why would anyone want to teleport then if it's essentially suicide?

>> No.4171234

babbies can't into ship of theseus

>> No.4171237

>>4171193
Mmmm, I guess its true you'd expereince some recent memory loss now that I think about it. The brain "stores information" during sleep. Even short term memory is not simply a charge, but it does require consolidation that sleep provides. But, no, if you can replicate a person exactly from atom to atom, the memory loss should only be a few milli-seconds surrounding the incident. Maybe not even. nerve conduction (action potentials) is the only thing that is "charge based" in the brain, everything else depends on protien syntesis, transmitter release. Not to mention that the charge is chemo-electric, using flows of charged ions, not electrons. If the ions, along with all the other atoms were copied exactly, each brain cell would retain its exact same charge as well. Hmm

>> No.4171238

>>4171208
If your exact mental state was replicated, the replica would (arguably) just think they've been teleported with no repercussions.

Could be a sci-fi plot, where unsuspecting citizens expect to be teleported, but are instead replicated and their original body is enslaved. Only the teleporting service providers would know..

>> No.4171243

>>4171238
Yes, the replica would think that.

But would that replica be ME?

I suppose this boils down to a monist vs dualist debate.

>> No.4171251

>>4171208
Thats my point, I would never do it.

>> No.4171270

>>4171243
In actuality, the new you is you. In reality, you are dead and the new you is something else.

>> No.4171280

>>4171243
Yeah, it essentially boils down to definitions.
The closer you inspect these problems, the shadier the definition of a person becomes.

>> No.4171295

>>4171280
that is called philosophy

>> No.4171320

The brain is volatile memory. Once there is no power all information is lost.

>> No.4171329

The only thing that makes you "you" is your memory. Wipe your memory and it will be as if you have just recently been born. So to answer you question OP, assuming your memories remain intact, yes you will wake up.

Now this begs the question of what happens to you when you die? You are born again. This may sound crazy but every single person on this planet is a different version of yourself. You are life itself..

>> No.4171332

>>4171123
This has got to be the dumbest analogy ive ever heard.
>lrn2spacetimecontinuum

>> No.4171345

>>4171332
Im just trying to understand the nature of conciousness here and the guy explained somehthing i've always wondered about.

>> No.4171352

>>4171329
>assuming personhood is only defined by psychological continuity

>> No.4171360

>>4171352
Yeah, we correctly assume that.

>> No.4171404

>>4171320
false, see above.

>> No.4171409

>>4171332
Yeah it would be, if it were an analogy.

>> No.4171416

>>4171360
What of verifiability? Philosophical zombies?
If someone claims to forget having committed a crime, are they no longer morally responsible for its effects or the initial intentions ?

>> No.4171421

>>4170687
>>4171123

watch "The Prestige (2006)" it explains it all

>> No.4171811

>>4171416
>morally
This is sci
responsibility here is legal or none.
and yes, he's responsibile

>> No.4171830

>>4171811
Pretty much my point. /Sci/entists should be focussed on verifiability/falsifiability of their claims. How do we test that this new 'person' who claims to not remember any heinous crimes is being truthful? How do we assess ethics of personhood if the definition transcends perception of external observers?

Thus; psychological continuity is an insufficient definition of personhood.

>> No.4171843

I hate to break it to you, OP, but you lose consciousness every night. Are you the same person who was walking around yesterday? Convention says yes.

>> No.4171853

>>4170687

Holy shit, OP, you have HORRID grammar.

>> No.4171870

It depends on how long you've actually been 'braindead'. Oxygen deprivation causes massive neuronal damage, and with it destroys the neuronal structure of your brain, and thus memories. Also, very soon after death, the lipids which make up the neuronal membranes start to dissolve and brain structure is damaged beyond repair.

>> No.4173796

yup! relevent: http://lesswrong.com/lw/r9/quantum_mechanics_and_personal_identity/

tldr; get froze. when they reboot you you've changed even less than by going to sleep

>> No.4173810

Probably

Other DimENSions ANd SHit and yeah

>> No.4173958

>>4171843
I don't think sleep is unconsciousness. One is somehow aware of the passage of time. Deep anesthesia eg for surgery, however, is. No time seems to pass.

>> No.4173970

The information in brain is stored in connections, not in the charges you morons.

>> No.4173985
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4173985

>>4173796
Nope. You totally didn't understand that article AT FUCKING ALL.

The human brain will "degrade" from being dead dumbfuck. When you try and "bring it back" it will be all fucked up, it will not be you anymore, it probably won't even properly function anymore. It will be "blank".

>> No.4173994

>>4170687
NOPE. Your brain is not like a harddrive OP. It can't just be plugged back in.

When you die, your brain dies. It it is "dead" for more then a few minutes, It cannot be recovered.
Even at a few minutes, you will have great brain damage.

>> No.4174164

Thats a simple answer. Yes.

>> No.4174326

yes, but your ram would be cleaned out

>> No.4174344

>>4173985
oh scary man can use big words on teh intarwebs
keep your knickers on princess

>> No.4174346
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4174346

>>4174164
>Implying your brain won't turn into useless fucking mush as time goes by.

You know how long it takes organic matter to fucking breakdown when it is not functioning properly? FUCKING HOURS OR DAYS!

Why the fuck do you think this brain will "last", when everyother piece of meat will not?

>> No.4174353
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4174353

>>4174344
>gradeschool words
>calls them "big words"

Wow

>> No.4174373

>>4174346
>implying OP was not implying that the brain somehow hypothetically won't get deteriorated

>> No.4174375

>>4174326
The brain doesnt have "ram" memories are more like a hard drive that sometimes decays gradually. Also, you can't "shut the power off" in your brain each indivdual cell has its own power source.

>> No.4174742
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4174742

>>4174344
>Big words.