/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.4155599]

>get an A on physics final
>final grade: B-
>didn't do the shitty homework that was worth 10% of the grade
>mfw

If you know how to do it, there is no need to fucking have required homework. It's ridiculous. Homework as part of the grade is just a stupid way so that dumbfags are able to pass.

Fuck I hate homework.

[Anonymous No.4155623]

homework is where you get the hard questions that you cant be expected to do during time constrained exams. Try not to be lame in the future, hating homework is a cliche.

[Anonymous No.4155619]

See, I thought that too, but then I got into more advanced physics, and you fucking need to do the homework then. Might as well build the habit now.

[Anonymous No.4155624]

>>4155599

Yet another butthurt child who thinks he knows better than his professors and other educators. Homework is important. I don't care how special you think you are. You're no better than anyone else in your class. If you got a B- and homework was only 10% of your grade, you clearly lost about about 7% for other reasons. If you're really so great that you think you're above homework, you should have gotten 90.00% in the class for an 'A-'. Eat shit you worthless fuck. You are among the "dumbfags".

[Anonymous No.4155631]

>purposefully screw yourself over over something so trivial as doing homework
>complain when you get a shitty grade
how did you manage an A when you're so fucking stupid

[Anonymous No.4155635]

I remember a thread about this a while ago. For classes in technical fields like science and math the best system would determine your grade based off of two different sorts of exams:
(a) In class exams: they cover material learned in class in a straightforward way. It's timed so no chance to think deeply. But it's guaranteed to be your own work (no cheating or outside help)
(b) Take-home exams: Questions are tricky and take time but are designed to further your understanding of the material. Probably should be graded on a curve due to high difficulty level, but the chance is there if a students can really excel. There is the chance that students will copy off of eachother but this hapens in h.w. anyway and like OP said h.w. is relatively useless.

This system would not only save students work but it would be considerably more learning oriented.

[Anonymous No.4155646]

That's funny, because this happened to me:

>Do below-average on physics exams
>No idea how I did on the final
>Went to class every day, went to optional recitation
>CONSTANTLY asked questions
>Did all of the homework, used a solution manual. Never missed a class.
>Made an A in the class

[Anonymous No.4155650]

>don't do 10% of the required work
>get 10% less than you would have liked on the final grade
>complain

[Anonymous No.4155649]

>I was too lazy to work hard and earn the A
The only solution I can imagine to this immense & complex problem is complaining on the internet.

[Anonymous No.4155658]

If you got a B- and homework was only weighted for ten percent, you slacked off elsewhere, as well.

[Anonymous No.4155662]

>>4155635
Thats stupid.
The second thing you're describing basically IS homework. The only difference would be that you couldn't have as much of it. And, I hate to say this, but if you actually want to learn math and physics you should try to look at and understand EVERY SINGLE exercise in the book, even if you don't solve it or dismiss it as trivial. Book exercises often introduce new concepts that the main book doesn't have the time to go into a long exposition on. If you don't do homework, you are shorting yourself. Even if you do do homework, you probably aren't learning as much as you should be.

[Anonymous No.4155669]

>>4155624
I would have gotten an A- if it weren't for the homework requirement.

I don't think I'm special. It's not necessary for ANYBODY to be required to do homework like we're a bunch of fucking toddlers. People should have their own autonomy in their studies.

There's not getting around it. Homework as part of the grade is to benefit DUMBFAGS who can't pass without it. Even the prof bragged to the students that, "The homework will really help you pass the class." It's basically "free" points. Anybody can get them if they spend enough time on it or copy from someone else. This is UNDESERVED and UNFAIR to those who actually understand the material without a 10% crutch.

Fucking fuck college isn't supposed to be like this.

[Anonymous No.4155679]

>>4155669
I'd rather work with a physicist who knew how to complete his fucking work, work hard, and look up difficult concepts than some retard who coasts through life relying on his memory. Sorry chief, but homework builds up good work ethic and the ability to function when a problem comes up that you haven't conveniently crammed for.

[Anonymous No.4155680]

>>4155669
>mfw there was someone in the class who understood the material much more than you and still did the homework

you're a lazy nigger faggot who probably has had everything handed to him in life.

[Anonymous No.4155678]

>>4155635

(b) Homework: Questions are tricky and take time but are designed to further your understanding of the material. Probably should be graded on a curve due to high difficulty level, but the chance is there if a students can really excel. There is the chance that students will copy off of eachother but this hapens in take home exams anyway and like OP said take home exams relatively useless.

i'm raging so hard right now

[Anonymous No.4155687]

>>4155669
If you actually understood the material that well, the homework would be easy and you wouldn't care about doing it. That is, unless you're in a shit tier major.

[Anonymous No.4155699]

>>4155662
I'm a PhD student in math. I think I know what it takes to understand course material.
The critical difference between h.w. and the take-homes would be that there would only be a few take-homes per semester and one would have lots of time to complete them AND they'd consist of problems that go far more in-depth than those stupid textbook exercises.
So they contribute more to the student's learning process and add up to possibly less work. Also they actually complement in-class exams instead of just drilling those same sorts of problems like traditional h.w. does.

[Anonymous No.4155703]

>>4155687
That's a shitty argument. Say a construction worker in the Soviet Union was sent to a gulag. What you're saying is like them saying, "Hurr durr you're used to this work. If you're really a good construction worker, you should be able to do this work too, you lazy faggot."

Why should I do extra work I don't need to do? I do some of the practice problems but I don't need to be fucking supervised in doing so. I'm not a toddler. Fucking hell.

[Anonymous No.4155710]

>>4155678
>>4155662
calm down. you could call it homework if you wanted to, but I'm describing something that fundamentally different from the standard h.w. assignments you see in typical undergrad STEM courses.

[Anonymous No.4155712]

>>4155669

Think about this. You actively chose to not do homework knowing full well you would lose 10% of your grade at a minimum. Your reasoning consists of your own opinion regarding autonomy (which contradicts the opinion of people who know much better than you, i.e. your professor, etc.). You proceed to get butthurt when you A) receive the grade you knew full well you were going to get and B) see that your grade is a good indicator that your opinion really doesn't mean jack shit and is likely idiotic. No one cares if you think you're smart enough to not do homework. The reality is that homework is necessary and you will be held to the same standard as everyone else. I would jump at the chance to do homework to further solidify my understanding. You may be smart, but your work ethic sucks. When you get out in the world, work ethic is what matters. Try telling this story during a job interview.

College is supposed to be exactly like this. Get over yourself. College isn't supposed to conform to your expectations. Grow up.

[Anonymous No.4155717]

>>4155703
I agree with you.
The thing is, people are fucking PAYING to go to college and expect a service in return. It makes no sense to force h.w. on those people. Exams are supposed to be where you prove that you learned the material

[Anonymous No.4155720]

>>4155703
>Why should I do extra work I don't need to do? I do some of the practice problems but I don't need to be fucking supervised in doing so. I'm not a toddler.
I can't wait for you to enter the workforce.

[Anonymous No.4155725]

I get lots of homework and I like it because all the questions are thinky wheras textbook questions are all grind. I personally require both but if it wasnt for assigned homework I would have no source of pre packaged stimulating questions. Not doing it is cheating yourself. Do you want to learn physics cunt? Or do you want to half ass it and hit some arbitrary level you made up for yourself.

[Anonymous No.4155726]

Someones a little butthurt....
My physics grade is 14 points above the class average. Know why?
I go ta 100 on my homework and raped the final. Too bad OP is a little candyass that's too lazy to do some extra work. What are your parents paying for , if not for you to learn?
It scares me that lazy fucks like you will be in charge of designing and building shit in the future.

[Anonymous No.4155738]

[Anonymous No.4155736]

>>4155599
ohitsthisthreadagain.jpg

[Anonymous No.4155742]

>>4155720
>give thousands of dollars to university, get told to do hw because fuck you
>get a job, told to do work because you get money in return
yeah totally same thing

[Anonymous No.4155745]

>>4155699
From my experience that's exactly how it is with normal homeworks and exams... Even textbooks usually put effort into making a bunch of interesting problems. The in class exams just make sure people don't copy everything to get an A.

Archetypal Hatcher exercise:
"Consider this weird looking space that has funky properties. Show that it demonstrates that, if we remove some assumption, that theorem we proved earlier is no longer true"

Archetypal exam problem:
"Calculate the fundamental group and euler characteristic of a torus with two trivial circles identified."

[Anonymous No.4155750]

>>4155742
This

[Anonymous No.4155757]

>>4155742
>complain about work you "shouldn't" have to do
It's not that difficult, and it's been present for your entire academic career, how are you not accustomed to it by now?
Even if you don't believe you shouldn't have to do it, why would you not do it? It only hurts you not to do it.

[Anonymous No.4155766]

>>4155599

A good prof will make Homework that is harder than the exams.

This makes homework warrant credit.

If its easier than the exam, it shouldn't be worth marks.

[Anonymous No.4155769]

>>4155745
Anyway, the point here is: Think of ALL homework as a "Take home exam" if you want to. If your homework isn't increasing your understanding and it doesn't introduce you to new ideas, the problem lies with your professor, not the idea of mandatory homework itself.

[Anonymous No.4155770]

>>4155745
you're obviously talking about junior/senior level math courses. Those are exceptions to the rule (part of why I decided to stay in math). Also really high class universities might already be running all their STEM classes this way but most university don't.

[Anonymous No.4155787]

>>4155769
You seem to be having trouble with parsing words in terms of contextual understanding. We're all discusses the "homework" that OP was complaining about which is clearly different from the "homework" you get in an algebraic topology class!

[Anonymous No.4155802]

>>4155787
no, were discussing
>If you know how to do it, there is no need to fucking have required homework. It's ridiculous. Homework as part of the grade is just a stupid way so that dumbfags are able to pass.
in general. We don't know what kind of homework OP got, and in almost ALL classes I've taken, homework is much harder than the problems on tests, since professors can't put problems that might take an hour of thought on tests. Its time for you to stop posting.

[Anonymous No.4155821]

>Taking calc 3 course
>Homework makes up 50% of grade, 50% goes to midterm and final
>questions are hard as fuck and professor makes sure writes ones you can't find online so you can't cheat
>each homework is hand graded by the professor himself and he gives length explanations if he sees you screw up and ideas on how to fix it
>Once you get homework back he gives you till next class to fix your mistakes (if you can) and turn in for 1/3 of the lost credit
>People are nervous as fuck about his exams
>Class before midterm class professor tells us to relax and just review homework problems if needed and if we understand them the exams will be cake
>Turns out the exams were like like 1/25 the difficulty of the homework
>realize i'm still only going to get a B at max due to lost points in homework
>final class before finals week, professor tells us that over all his years of teaching only a few students actually managed A in his class without a curve and with that being said if you got a B range you're gonna get an A, C -> B, D -> C, etc unless you did really shitty.
>tfw i'll never have a professor this great

[Anonymous No.4155825]

>>4155802
again you have trouble understanding context. A symptom of autism is being unable to understand implied topics in conversation.

When OP used the word homework he obviously meant it in a particular context and your drawing the discussion out of that context to make statements which apply to the broader context but not the context that the OP was clearly implicating.

If you want to broaden the context of discussion that's fine. If you define "homework" as any required assignment that can be done outside of class then what you say is true but I don't doubt that OP was referring to typical homework found in 1st/2nd year classes.

If you're having trouble understanding then let me clarify by saying that I fully believe in the value of the h.w. I'm assigned in my graduate classes but I know exactly the kind of shitty h.w. that I always hated doing when I was in my 1st year at undergrad. And it's obvious that the discussion was focusing on the latter.

[Anonymous No.4155851]

>>4155825
>autism
later nerd

[Anonymous No.4155857]

>>4155821
that sounds like a totally baller professor.
See, that's the way I'm talking about. doesn't matter if you still call it h.w., it's completely different

[Anonymous No.4155876]

>>4155821
>taking calc 3 next semester
>heard it has a fail rate of over 50% and is the worst course of all time
I wish I had your professor...

[Anonymous No.4155890]

>>4155821
That's always what I have planned to be if I am a teacher at a high school or a professor. Make the homework tremendously difficult and the other tests and quizzes at about the same difficulty and then make the final at a very low difficulty.

Actually I think it would be pretty cool to retire from a nice job and be a teacher of a professor in my old age.

[Anonymous No.4155935]

>>4155890
>>4155876
>>4155857
He was a baller professor, i talked to him several times during office hours for help and what not and he was super helpful. He once told me he was thinking about making the homework worth even more since it actually tested everything you knew up to that point and very thoroughly whereas in case exams he had to make something that was doable in 50 minutes (time given to us for each lecture) and 1 hour and 50 minutes (for the final, our university makes finals separate from normal lectures for just about most big departmental classes). For him the exams were just a sign of you being able to quickly apply our knowledge to typically easy problems and the homework was the true sign of knowing what he taught and he never expected anyone to get 100% on all homeworks since it takes a lot of time to perfect your knowledge of these type of things.


I was happy i had this professor, but like 1/3 of our class hated him because he was loltoohard and a lot of students feel that they should be able to get perfects on everywhere and an A should be common ground. One of my previous professors actually made a comment once when he heard kids talking about how bad X professor was because his class was so hard and getting an A is impossible,etc etc and he made a very good point which was something like : " If I saw the majority of my students getting A's in my class that tells me one of two things: Either I'm the best professor and everyone is absorbing everything I say and has great memory or I'm doing a bad job at challenging you to apply your knowledge and I can most certainly tell you the it's most likely going to the be latter 99.9% of the time"

[Anonymous No.4155959]

it's because school isn't about learning things

it's about giving kids as much useless busy work as they can fit in their backpack to keep them occupied so they aren't committing crimes, huffing glue, having nonstop sex, and flooding the American workforce with cheap labor.

[Anonymous No.4155965]

>>4155959
I huff white-out all the time while doing Calc homework

[Anonymous No.4156013]

>>4155599
here op and everyone that sided with him....
you are in a shit teir major...
If the classes is that easy... your not actually in a class for people who want to do physics... in most physcis classes from other places, as well as my own, the test are easy, but the assignments are hard as hell, and most of the assignments are worth more then the tests are, and at times it takes 4 or 5 of us to work at a problem and solve it....