[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

View post   
File: 242 KB, 500x394, 1323586021321.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4146808 No.4146808 [Reply] [Original]

Consciousness equals the Brain is like saying Time equals a Clock.

sadly, /sci/ is too philosophically inept to go beyond this basic fallacy

>> No.4146818

You're correct OP, your brain does a lot more then just create consciousness, the amount of shit going on in there that you aren't even conscious of is amazing. Consciousness is just a small part of the overall computing that your brain does! However, consciousness is a completely physical concept entirely determined by brain activity, if you believe in some magic 'soul' that gives consciousness you're a retard dualist.

>> No.4146823

I'm sick of you fucking /phil/ cunts infesting my /sci/

>> No.4146826

>>4146818
Good job drawing conclusions out of thin air. Consciousness has yet to be explained.

>> No.4146873
File: 159 KB, 435x419, 1323975117906.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4146873

>>4146826
Oh boy here we go

>> No.4146908

>>4146873
Do you have an explanation? Because no one does.

>> No.4146913

Go philofuck yourself.

>> No.4146916

>>4146823
Start a petition for /ph/. It's the best for everyone.

>> No.4146921

GUYS GUYS WAIT....WHY ARE WE ALL HERE? HURHURHUDUDHUDRHURHUDHUDRHDUUHRDUHRUDHRHDUHRUDHR PHILOSOPHY IS SERIOUS BUSINESS

>> No.4146930

>>4146908
Here's some evidence. Hit yourself in the head, get a concussion and get KO'd. Did you lose conciousness? Yes? Then clearly the brain provides consciousness, and the damage caused by the blow to the head disrupted that function.

If consciousness was not a function of the brain, you would remember things from when you were out cold.

>> No.4146949

this pic rocks!

>> No.4146979

>>4146930
That's based entirely on memory of being conscious.

>> No.4146991

How do you know the brain exists?

>> No.4146994

>>4146979
Consider Phineas Gage, then. Might change your mind.

>> No.4146995

>>4146808
>>4146808
>>4146808

You did NOT just take credit for Brian's idea did you?

>> No.4147002
File: 27 KB, 775x387, i.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4147002

How do you know knowledge exists?

>> No.4147005
File: 15 KB, 179x245, Euclid.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4147005

Let's present then a scientific experiment that may prove that conciousness is independent of brain function.

Has conciousness been observed during moments where there is no brain function, or in fact, a brain? Or, as so many technophiles these days would desire, can we create conciousness by replicating brain function precisely?

Provide evidence for your hypothesis based on these guidelines and we will consider the argument.

>> No.4147011

that is one bad analogy. clock is defined as something that measures time. consciousness is defined as a state of control mediated by the brain. they're completely different. there are no analogous aspects.

>> No.4147013

>>4147002

Falsification only occurs on the basis of predetermined axioms from past scientific inquiry. The concreteness of science is not a simple matter, and the only reason you feel convinced that things that have happened in the past will happen by the same pattern in the future is because you assume a uniformity in nature. Why do you assume a uniformity in nature? Well, let me get all circular here and tell you that, in my opinion, the kind of memory prediction framework espoused by Geltner, enforced by Walpert, and created by Hawkins explains it nicely.

>> No.4147016

>>4147005
copy-pasting is not cut-pasting

Even if I am my brain patterns, a new set of those patterns is not Me. It's another one of me.

>> No.4147020
File: 189 KB, 516x840, ar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4147020

>>4147013

>> No.4147025

>>4147016
>implies a clock is time

a clock is NOT time. it's a device that measures time. time is a number representing how many instances of a certain periodic event have occurred.

>> No.4147027

>>4146808
Time does equal a clock.
/thread

>> No.4147042

>>4146808
>Consciousness equals the Brain is like saying Time equals a Clock.
And then you say we are the ones making fallacies.
Way to go.

>> No.4147215

>>4146930
>hit yourself on head, lose consciousness, therefore brain

no, you dont lose consciousness, even if you did there would be no way to tell

all you know is your perceptions changed
even when you sleep you are still conscious its just perceptions change

and secondly not remembering X,Y,Z is a memory problem not a consciousness problem

thirdly consciousness can be entirely caused by the brain yet it itself is not physical

>> No.4147221

>>4147215

>thirdly consciousness can be entirely caused by the brain yet it itself is not physical

Of course it isn't, it's an abstract process, but that doesn't mean it's magical or irreducible.

>> No.4147222

>>4147002
>"lets try to falsify it"

the idea of falsification is a result of philosophical investigation by philosophers like Popper et al.

scientists, like engineers, are too limited to think about "meta" issues, methods and principles like that.

Science is just Applied Philosophy
Engineering is just Applied science

The King will always be Philosophy, no exceptions.

>> No.4147226

>>4147221

thats why saying Consciousness = Brain
is absurd

kind of like saying Fire causes Pain, therefore Pain = Fire

its much more nuanced than that...but sci just doesn't get it

>> No.4147238

>>4147226

Consciousness != Brain, obviously.

It just happens that consciousness can be implemented by the brain.

>> No.4147245

is consciousness a particle or a wave

>> No.4147248

>Consciousness equals the Brain is like saying Time equals a Clock.

Yeah, and time DOES equal a clock, insofar that you can't have time without pieces moving to compare.

>> No.4147282

>>4147248

>time does equal a clock

/facepalm