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/sci/ - Science & Math

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4138622 No.4138622 [Reply] [Original]

Why is there no board to discuss medicine?

>implying medicine doesn't predate physics by centuries
>implying it isn't a science
>implying it isn't extremely useful
>implying it isn't going to save your life multiple times
>implying it already hasn't

>> No.4138627

Not enough medicine fags

>> No.4138629

>>>/fit/

>> No.4138633

>>4138629
fit can barely pass high school. it would be like trying to discuss QM on a board filled with new age people who believe consciousness causes collapse

>>4138627
yeah it's probably this, and 4chan is a waste of what little time they have.

>> No.4138635

>>4138622
>implying age of the discipline determines scientificalness

med fags are too busy cramming

>> No.4138641

>>4138633
You now realize you're agreeing with a /fit/ fag

>> No.4138650

>>4138622
It's okay, robots will replace them in our lifetime.

>> No.4138654
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4138654

>>4138650
Can't wait

>> No.4138656

it would deteriorate into a board about drugs

>> No.4138659

>>4138622
>>implying it isn't a science
Welcome to the science board.

>> No.4138660

>>4138654
>Thorium power
>implying fusion won't kick its ass

>> No.4138661

OP makes some good points about medicine.

I now feel that it should be taught in high school. At least forms of preventative medicine, the hospital procedure, how to get and upkeep insurance, and basic medical techniques (other than first aid).

Afterall, we have that rediculous Home Economics class, don't we?

>> No.4138666

>implying medicine isn't an unregulated piece of shit

Physicians are good people and THEY save lives, the industry of the creation of medicine is corrupt and invalid

>> No.4138669

>>4138660
Cost-effective fusion power is always 10 years away. Always has been, and will be for at least the next 50 years.

>> No.4138684

>>4138650
if robots replace doctors, robots will replace everyone.

>> No.4138687

>>4138627
There's a fair few of us it seems but an actual medicine thread seems quite tedious.

Usually it's in the form of a physiology or pharmacology thread - that being said, we don't have nearly enough of them.

>> No.4138690

>>4138684
lolno

>> No.4138694

>>4138684
Doctors, not research doctors, but one performing routine surgeries, diagnostics and operations can very well be replaced.

>> No.4138696

>>4138684
http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/19/robot-surgeon-performs-worlds-first-unassisted-operation/

And another thing, would it surprise you to know that machines are more accurate than humans as well?

>> No.4138703

>>4138696
>>4138694
>>4138690
>they think doctors only do surgery

>> No.4138704
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4138704

>>4138696
Real shocker. Engineers and mathematicians have outdone MD's in their own field. I guess everyone who said Medicine isn't really a science was right.

>> No.4138706

/sci/ is butthurt because

engineering is the best paying undergrad degree

MD is the best paying graduate degree

science majors always lose

enjoy your 28 years of school for 80k/year

>> No.4138707

>>4138622
Jesus god, I hate when this symbol gets mixed with the real symbotl. The real symtol only has no snake, and no wings. That's Hermes' symbol, the god of sports.

>> No.4138708

>>4138703
See
>>4138694
>research
>routine surgeries, diagnostics and operations

>> No.4138712

>>4138706
>Implying math isn't the best paying undergrad next to pharmaceutics and petrochemical eng.

>> No.4138714

>>4138706
>28 years of school for 80k/year
The fuck? Assuming you started school the minute you were born, and studied engineering which, on average takes 4, 5 years. You should be done by age 22 or 23. Can you medfags even count?

>> No.4138726 [DELETED] 

>>4138714
that's what a phd in science majors, child.

>> No.4138728 [DELETED] 

>>4138712
>he thinks even 1% of mathematicians go into finance

protip : not only is average MD salary much larger then math phd, the high end beats your faggot 300k starting (try 750k starting)

>> No.4138735
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4138735

Homeopathy reporting in!

>> No.4138742

>>4138714
that's for PhD in physics/math, faggot

>>4138735
>couldn't get into real med school

>> No.4138743

>>4138726
>phd in science majors
Oxymoron detected.

>> No.4138744

>>4138712
undergrad math loses horribly to like 10 different engineering majors

>> No.4138749

>>4138728
>Implying I was talking about graduate school

How fucking dumb are medicine students? Holy shit. Just reaffirms everything I ever observed about them.

Memorization makes you intelligent.jpg

>> No.4138752

>>4138742
In your post you said engineers and science majors. Both of these are undergraduate. I'm sorry, but is asking you to communicate in a clear and sensible way asking too much of you?

Also, nice job deleting your post. Faggot.

>> No.4138753

>>4138752
sci's defacto position is to PhD in physics or math.

that should be implied, but i forgot you guys don't grasp context.

>> No.4138781

>>4138753
The majority of /sci/'s are high schoolers, followed by engineers. And /sci/ does not have a de facto position. That 300k a year thing is just a meme, a true one, but a meme nonetheless.

The number of confirmed Ph.Ds in physics and math can be counted on your hands. (It means less than 10).

>> No.4138782

>>4138728
>Implying I was talking about graduate degrees

>> No.4138793

>>4138781
>implying it's not the defining theme of /sci/

same thing with /sci/ hating bio, because it's not a hard science

>> No.4138805
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4138805

>>4138687
Could change that right now!

>> No.4138826

>>4138805
>implying aspirin isn't shit tier immunomodulation

>> No.4138830

>>4138706
Median pay for a math degree (the majority of which are MS or higher) is 95k, more outside of academics.

Engineers with the same level of experience generally get paid more than mathematicians.

>> No.4138831

>>4138826
>implying the AMA \ FDA would ever let you buy effective medication OTC

>implying you can't buy anti-retrovirals and powerful antibiotics online anyway without a script

>> No.4138835

the AMA is nothing more then a VERY powerful union for american born doctors who are nothing more then blue collar workers (requires no real inherently intelligence to become a doctor, just hard work)

>> No.4138839

>>4138835
If you take that position on intelligence, then it is an unmeasurable and therefore useless concept.

>> No.4138877

Medicine > Physics

Face it, physics fags. When a doctor saves a patient's life, they thank the doctor, not the physicist who created the MRI or x-ray.

Einstein sucks Avicenna's dick.
Hippocrates fucked Tyson in the arse.

Come at us.

>> No.4138969

>>4138877
you do realize most doctors fucking HATE patient contact right?

that's why radiology\ anesthesiology are so hard to get into

>> No.4138978 [DELETED] 
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4138978

>>4138877
>When a doctor saves a patient's life, they thank the doctor, not the physicist who created the MRI or x-ray.
They usually thank God, actually.

>> No.4138987

>>4138969

HA! Doctors love patients. We have souls.
Physicists though? Dirty, filthy, heartless monsters.

>>4138978

As we are the Almighty's workers, they are thanking God by extension as they thank us.

>> No.4138989

>/sci/ discussing medicine

Oh boy, here we go

>> No.4139010

>>4138987
No, there's no way this can work. Knew it was a troll after the first four words.

You will_not_find find a single doctor who loves their patients for the simple reason that all patients are fundamentally unlikeable.

>>4138978
And that's why they're unlikeable.

>> No.4139022

>>4138987
confirmed for never dealing with pre-meds, never actually dealing with patients, and having zero idea of what specialties everyone wants to match into

or maybe you're just a bad doctor (enjoy family practice bro)

>> No.4139326

Biophysics PhD grad student here, I respect MDs who've gone through medical school and residency - and, perhaps, fellowships - and practice medicine. (In the interest of full disclosure, that level of respect is not uniform; quite frankly, I'm more impressed with a pediatric cardiovascular surgeron than an pediatrician.)

Nonetheless, I don't have respect for pretentious faggots who refer to themselves as "pre-meds", or to their major as "pre-med", after one or two semesters of undergrad. And, I don't have respect for "pre-meds" who claim that their requirements are so goddamn difficult (Calc I and Intro Physics, fucking spare me the bitching, that's slap-dick compared to upper-level math and science); or, who claim that their horseshit undergrad "research" is legit (congrats, you ran a fucking PCR: you'll be published in Nature Chemical Biology next week).

>> No.4139550

Alright /sci/, for a while now I've been thinking about going into the medical field, because I love science and anatomy and everything of that nature. I always thought that since it could possibly take 10 or more years to finish my education, that you'd have to be fucking smart to be a doctor. But from what you guys have been saying, medicine is a shitty science that is outdone by everything else. Explanation?

>> No.4139562

>>4138622
Medicine isnt a science.

Sorry but working out a check list of symptoms does not involve scientific method. Ergo, not a science.

>> No.4139578

As long as the FDA exists true medical cures will never be pursued or made available. The medical industry cannot make money from healthy people.

>> No.4139591

>>4138969

>Anesthesiology
>Hard to get into

http://residency.wustl.edu/medadmin/resweb.nsf/L/A6E8C6B1BA8C35CB86256F8F0071C74F?OpenDocument

>2011
>Competitiveness
>LOW

Not everyone is an antisocial neckbeard you physfag

>> No.4139593

>>4138622
I would love a medical board. But the trolls are bad enough here, let alone the ones which would follow to the medical board.

>> No.4139596

>>4139550
>But from what you guys have been saying, medicine is a shitty science that is outdone by everything else. Explanation?

Medicine is an applied science, just like engineering. But look, would you ask a physician for career advice on being a mathematician? Of course not. Then why are you listening to a bunch of retards on /sci/ for career advice on medicine.

It's like this: everything we do in medicine is simple enough that you could explain that each single concept to a layperson in no more than 15 minutes.

What makes medicine difficult is that the sheer amount and the breadth of concepts you are expected to learn in medical school is almost inhuman at times. Then when you practice medicine, you have to remember those concepts for years, recall them from different angles, and link them together in ways you wouldn't have expected.

>medical school and residency - and, perhaps, fellowships

FYI, fellowship is the next step after residency, i.e. to be a pediatric CV surgeon, one must first complete a 5 year CV surgery residency, then a 3 year pediatric fellowship.

Also, general pediatricians are actually a lot smarter than you seem to realize.

>> No.4139600

>>4138622
I don't know, OP, but I'd love to see an /rx/ here.
Write moot a nice letter and maybe he'll give all 5 of us what we want.

>> No.4139609

>>4139550

An MD offers numerous career possibilities.

If you're running your own lab in one of the basic science departments at a medical school, then you can call yourself a scientist. On the other hand, if you're a dermatologist in private practice, you're not a scientist.

>> No.4139617
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4139617

>>4138969
No doctor really hates patients, except maybe surgeons (juuuuust kidding, they hate everybody).

Radiology and Dermatology etc are only competitive because they are "lifestyle" specialties, which means they have high pay and lower amounts of weekend/night on-call hours.

Anesthesiology isn't that competitive anymore, actually, because it's considered somewhat high stress. 99% of the cases are bread and butter, but 1% of the time the patient will crash and burn. You never know when that 1% will be, so you're always on edge and it makes you go crazy after a while.

>> No.4139628

>>4139596
>FYI, fellowship is the next step after residency, i.e. to be a pediatric CV surgeon, one must first complete a 5 year CV surgery residency, then a 3 year pediatric fellowship.

Not in the United States. The path to pediatric CV surgery, traditionally, has been as follows: five-year general surgery residency (Note: this may include one or two years of research experience, to bolster the your C.V.) --> two- or three-year cardiothoracic surgery fellowship --> one- or two-year pediatric cardiovascular surgery "super-fellowship".

That said, however, with the rise of six-year integrated CT surgery training programs, this pathway will likely shift in the upcoming years.

>Also, general pediatricians are actually a lot smarter than you seem to realize.

Of course, they are very intelligent. But, again, the work of a pediatrician is not as highly skilled or specialized as that of a pediatric cardiovascular surgeon.

>> No.4139629

I agree with OP, we should see more medicine boards on here. Not just medicine, but diseases, illnesses, etc. /fit/ isn't nearly as smart as /sci/, and there probably are MDs on here.

>> No.4139634

>>4139596
>FYI, fellowship is the next step after residency, i.e. to be a pediatric CV surgeon, one must first complete a 5 year CV surgery residency, then a 3 year pediatric fellowship.

Not in the United States. The path to pediatric CV surgery, traditionally, has been as follows: five-year general surgery residency (Note: this may include one or two years of research experience, to bolster the your C.V.) --> two- or three-year cardiothoracic surgery fellowship --> one- or two-year pediatric cardiovascular surgery "super-fellowship".

That said, however, with the rise of six-year integrated CT surgery training programs, this pathway may shift in the upcoming years.

>Also, general pediatricians are actually a lot smarter than you seem to realize.

Of course, they are very intelligent. But, again, the work of a pediatrician is not as highly skilled or specialized as that of a pediatric cardiovascular surgeon.

>> No.4139635

IF MEDICINE IS A SCIENCE THEN WHY WOULD IT NEED A NEW BOARD?

>> No.4139639

>>4139628
>>4139634

Sorry for the double posts, guys.

>> No.4139662

>>4139634
I just checked and you're right about the peds CV surgery pathway. Sorry, I'm an IM guy so it's hard to keep all the surgical sub/super-specialties straight.

>But, again, the work of a pediatrician is not as highly skilled or specialized as that of a pediatric cardiovascular surgeon.

Yeah we all know it, but it's a bit of a no-no to outright express it. There are things a peds surgeon can do, and there are things a pediatrician can do. In the end, everybody just does their job, and "respecting" one service more than another is comes off as elitist and douchy.

>> No.4139669

>>4139662
>Yeah we all know it, but it's a bit of a no-no to outright express it. There are things a peds surgeon can do, and there are things a pediatrician can do. In the end, everybody just does their job, and "respecting" one service more than another is comes off as elitist and douchy.

Alright. I'm a grad student, so I don't know too much about the pecking order (or, rather, apparent lack thereof) in medicine. Thanks for the heads-up.

>> No.4139690

>>4138622
How many people here are in med school? Do you regret going into it? Only reason I ask is because I was talking to a third year med student on the train the other day who said he regretted it and tried to convice me from going there myself.

>> No.4139713

I can't wait until med school and I can come back to my uni and walk around with my short white coat and have 100 bitches on my dick mirin my stethoscope. Everyday is going to feel like Christmas

>> No.4139714

>>4139690

I'm not a med student (I'm this guy: >>4139326). My mother is a doctor, though, so I've been exposed to numerous other doctors, from various specialties. Not one has recommended a career in clinical practice. Roughly one-half have suggested medical school - because an M.D. carries so much weight in the business world (banking or consulting). The others have pretty much told me to skip the debt altogether; get a PhD in science, and go into finance.

>> No.4139725

>>4139690
>How many people here are in med school?

You could count us on one hand.

>Do you regret going into it? Only reason I ask is because I was talking to a third year med student

Third year is absolutely brutal. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq-9s3qy30I

But overall? Medical school is worth every moment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfoR96w41wk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2FdGI9nEPw&t=1m40s

>> No.4139777

>>4139714
I have been tossing up between med school and a PhD in either Neuroscience or Pharmacology, and need to choose soon (just completed my second year) so I have been asking for different peoples opinions so I can get a full idea of the two options I have. I don't think I could go into anything else but a Bio/Med type career.

>> No.4139788

>>4139777
Do you want a career of working with patients, diagnosing diseases, and managing treatment? Go into medicine!

Do you want a career of working in a molecular lab, doing cell cultures, and publishing your work? Go into neuroscience or pharmacology!

>> No.4139794

Medicine is really the only area where you're guaranteed 100k+ upon getting a job

>> No.4139814

>>4139788
Thats where I get stuck. Both have parts which I think I will enjoy/like. However I am slightly towards medicine then research.

>>4139794
It is such a clique thing to say but for me it really isn't about the money. The money is a plus I would enjoy but bio/med to me is facinating/interesting, enjoyable and self-satisfying.

>> No.4139816

>>4139794
>Live in hungary
>Being a doctor is one of the shitties job, because the goverment can't pay a normal pay
>Every graduate from med schools escape to either Germany or the UK
>In 8 or so years we will have no doctors
>Every doc has to deal with fuckin elderly people who have nothing wrong with them, but they keep going to the hospital, and clog everything up
Though, if you work at a private Clinic or Hospital then you get Loadsamoney.
Or if you are a dentist, or those guys who do mouth surgeries and make braces, don't know the english names for these.

>> No.4139827

>>4139814

>The money is a plus I would enjoy but bio/med to me is facinating/interesting, enjoyable and self-satisfying.

Yeah fuck that I just want my pay cheque I honestly don't care if I enjoy my job because I'll sure as hell enjoy my huge house/escorts/fast ar

>> No.4139832
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4139832

>>4139816
Also
>Intrested in Neuroscience
>Would love to study the human brain for my entire life
>mfw I couldn't do it because I probably don't have the dedication, and the skills for
>Also, NOFUNDING
>Mfw I will never help to make Augmentations a reality
I never asked for this

Also, fuck you guys for make this thread now, I have to leave in 2 minutes FUCK

>> No.4139836

>>4139777

For the nearly all physicians (cosmetic surgeons notwithstanding) the prestige and money is not what it used to be. Go to medical school because you want to take care of patients. Don't go to medical school because you want to tell people that you're a doctor; and, don't go into medicine for the money.

>>4139788
>Do you want a career of working with patients, diagnosing diseases, and managing treatment? Go into medicine!

Well said.

>Do you want a career of working in a molecular lab, doing cell cultures, and publishing your work? Go into neuroscience or pharmacology!

This applies to your tenure in grad school - not necessarily your entire career. There are plenty of opportunities for Pharmacology PhDs beyond the lab bench, in the "business" of science.

>>4139794
> Medicine is really the only area where you're guaranteed 100k+ upon getting a job

Sure, but the debt is substantial. PhD programs, however, offer a stipend (usually, $25,000 or so), in addition to free tuition.

>> No.4139848

>>4139814
>However I am slightly towards medicine then research.

Then go for medicine.

As a medical student, you'll have a chance to do some hardcore research in the summer of your first year with the MSTAR and the NIH programs. Seriously, being a med student is your ticket to anything.

Plus, you can practice medicine AND do research with only an MD as a clinical "physician/scientist". But you can't practice medicine with only a PhD.

>> No.4139880
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4139880

>>4139848
>As a medical student, you'll have a chance to do some hardcore research in the summer of your first year with the MSTAR and the NIH programs.

>medical student
>hardcore research

>> No.4139883

>>4139848
I don't live in the USA. We don't have those programs. Though that is a point. I am sure there is some program here which allows me to go into research. Only down side of med-school is the $200,000 debt for 4 years.

>> No.4139900

>>4139832
Go to an English-speaking country then. Your understanding of English looks good. Get your doctorate or masters and you should have a much easier time coming over here.

>> No.4139915

>>4139900
I live in Australia.

>> No.4139924

>>4139915
>hungary
>australia
Which one is it?

>> No.4139967

Medicine does not predate physics. Construction and use of tools is the application of physics, and occurred before attempts at self-healing.

>> No.4140370

Like medicine has never done basic research into physical, chemical or other properties and then made an application of that knowledge. And yes we collaborate with other people to get shit done and don't circlejerk how superior we are to everyone else.

http://www.tedmed.com/videos-info?name=Joseph_DeSimone_at_TEDMED_2011&q=updated&year=all#.Tu
hxGRIAK3k.facebook