/sci/ - Science & Math

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Anonymous Mon Dec 12 13:50:10 2011 No.4132725 [Reply] [Original]

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 13:53:33 2011 No.4132735 Yes, but until God's existence is proven, atheism makes more logical sense.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 13:53:33 2011 No.4132739 >Cannot be disproven False. Evolution.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 13:53:33 2011 No.4132740 Being agnostic doesn't excuse you of having an opinion. Only an idiot is a gnostic these days and it's only reasonable to assume it probably doesn't exist, even though we will never know for sure, just like with anything else. sage

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 13:54:42 2011 No.4132743 File: 31 KB, 640x650, 1302369508001.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 13:54:42 2011 No.4132744
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OP image uses a vague and featureless god nobody believes in. The specific gods of specific religions people do believe in are associated with claims about the natural world in their foundational holy texts which have been debunked by science.

Alphagnostic atheists: 4532523463456
Aspergnostics: -1

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 13:55:50 2011 No.4132752 File: 25 KB, 712x956, 1302817266001.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 13:56:58 2011 No.4132756 >>4132744 Incorrect. No religions can be proven or disproven.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 13:58:05 2011 No.4132762 >>4132756 False. Religions based on claims about the natural world that are possible for science to debunk can be disproven.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 13:58:05 2011 No.4132764 most atheists are agnostic atheists; most "agnostics" are also agnostic atheists who wrongly believe "atheists" to be gnostic atheists (which very few atheists are, for the reasons you mentioned OP)

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 13:59:23 2011 No.4132769

using that logic, you can say the same thing about a magical bunny who created the universe... or an all powerful head of lettuce that forge all existence as we know it. As an agnostic, you would have to admit that those are plausible theories simply on the fact that it can't be disproven.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:00:23 2011 No.4132772

>>4132764

Bingo. I had hoped using "agnostic atheist" would pre-empt accusations of gnostic presumption but when you change a term for clarification it makes the opposition think you're trying to backpedal or get away with something, like the "Dur hur now it's climate change instead of global warming because they can't keep their story straight" inbreds.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:00:23 2011 No.4132773

>>4132725

This is why agnosticism is such bullshit.

If god appeared before people and performed miracles on live television and allowed scientists to verify those miracles then gods existence would be proven.

But agnostics claim that they would still doubt? we all know that's bullshit because agnostics would fall over themselves believing and worshipping the new revealed god.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:00:23 2011 No.4132774 >>4132739 >He thinks evolution disproves god. >laughinggirls.jpg Show me where in the theory of evolution does it prove god doesnt exist? Go on? Oh yeah you can't, because it doesn't. It disproves creationism not god.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:00:23 2011 No.4132775 >>4132762 This line of reasoning is stupid because they'll just tell you "HURR IT'S ALL METAPHORICAL!". They construct their arguments in a way that's impossible for them to lose while leaving you confused and irritated.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:01:29 2011 No.4132782

>>4132744
Atheist goes into great detail explaining why agnostic's claim isn't true

>>4132756
Agnostic's brain short circuits because he wasn't prepared for a rebuttal he has no prepackaged sloganized response for, simply re-states original (and now disproven) argument.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:03:46 2011 No.4132786

>>4132773
but how would they know that what they saw on TV is real, or that the scientists aren't lying, or that they can trust their very own perceptions and that they're not actually illusions, or that my uncle was sincere when he apologized for touching my penis when i was seven because he really was drunk and thought that i was his wife (his wife is rather tiny, and was rocking a short haircut at the time)?

true knowledge doesn't exist, everything humans experience is subjective...

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:04:46 2011 No.4132791 >>4132773 The point of agnostism is that they won't make there mind up untill proven one way or the other, when does it say they would still doubt? What are you talking about?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:04:46 2011 No.4132793 >>4132739 this. evolution is false.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:04:46 2011 No.4132794 >>4132775 If the smartest atheist and the smartest theist in the world debate each other, the best they can manage is arguing each other into a draw.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:05:01 2011 No.4132804 >>4132794 i think that happened this year; the atheists said the atheist won, and the theists said the theists won you can't argue people into changing their mind; the best you can hope for is that they will look at all the evidence

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:05:53 2011 No.4132801 >>4132762 name ONE

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:06:01 2011 No.4132808 >>4132801 Young Earth creationism.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:06:10 2011 No.4132810
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>>4132774
>It disproves creationism not god.

The Christian god is the god who created the Earth in 6 days, who sent his son to die in atonement for original sin.

We know that specific god who did those things doesn't exist because we now know the Earth was not created in six days, it did not exist before the sun, or before all other stars, that birds and fish did not arrive at the same time, much less birds arriving before land animals, and that because Eden was not an actual place, the fall from grace didn't occur because there was no Adam or Eve to bite the apple, ergo Christ's sacrifice atoned for nothing.

This is *why* there has been such prolonged christian opposition to evolution. Most of them can't fool themselves with the comforting lies of moderate christianity and realize instead that evolution pretty much causes Christian doctrine to collapse.

Captcha: Our Rybesta

Guys, when did we get a Rybesta? Nobody told me? I fucking LOVE Rybestas.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:07:10 2011 No.4132812 >>4132808 See >>4132775 Not all Christians are YECs.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:07:17 2011 No.4132815

>>4132794
>If the smartest atheist and the smartest theist in the world debate each other, the best they can manage is arguing each other into a draw.

This doesn't prove that the issue is unresolvable, only that the theist refuses to concede he is wrong even when it is proven so. That's how shit like Scientology and Mormonism stay alive despite being based on claims we all agree are easily disproven, but the same Christians who can see that cannot see the same is true of their own religion.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:08:17 2011 No.4132816 >>4132794 >smartest theist

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:08:17 2011 No.4132820 >>4132786 >>true knowledge doesn't exist, everything humans experience is subjective if true knowledge doesn't exist, then how can you claim to know this?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:09:26 2011 No.4132821
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>>4132801

I'll give you three.

Evolution
Big bang
Neuroscience

We now have good evidence that the big bang was autocatalytic and required no outside causal force, neuroscience debunks the concept of soul as consciousness, personality or memories existing apart from the brain and evolution devastates Christian doctrine for the reasons listed here: >>4132810

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:09:26 2011 No.4132822 >>4132808 not name one issue, name one time when science conclusively proved that the bible was absolutely wrong protip: change your answer; the age of the universe is a hypothesis, not proof

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:10:33 2011 No.4132825 Show me the concept of God existence with out resorting to the teachings in the bible. Go on, I dare you.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:10:33 2011 No.4132826

>>4132794
yeah, it'd go like this

A: how do you know god exists?
T: because the bible says so
A: how do you the know the bible as accurate?
T: because god wrote it
A: but your certainty of gods existence is based on the bible. this is circular logic
T: circular logic? what's that?
A: [explains what circular logic is]
T: i still don't get it, and am therefor not convinced
A: ...

DRAW

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:10:33 2011 No.4132827 Agnosticism: YOU CANNOT KNOW NUFFIN' the religion.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:10:33 2011 No.4132828
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>>4132822

>protip: change your answer; the age of the universe is a hypothesis, not proof

But that's not true.

>not name one issue, name one time when science conclusively proved that the bible was absolutely wrong

All three of these: >>4132821

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:10:34 2011 No.4132823

Well, I think what is essential is to prove the existence of a soul first. All the findings presented by neurology show that consciousness is all the result of the complex exchange of data between the neurons that make up the brain. If you can prove that this isn't the case and revalidate dualism, then the question of whether God exists or not can remain open.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:10:34 2011 No.4132824 >>4132810 holy crap, dude, you don't KNOW any of those things, and indeed, are WRONG about those things you assert are true

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:11:33 2011 No.4132829 >>4132820 i believe it's true, but i'm not cetain ;)

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:11:42 2011 No.4132834 File: 35 KB, 600x449, 1321837011982.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4132824 I see you're upset, and you may feel emotionally that I must be wrong, but you have put forth no clear argument as to what exactly I am wrong about and why.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:12:49 2011 No.4132835

>>4132821
>Evolution
just a theory, just a gauss
>Big bang
just a theory, just a gauss
>Neuroscience
yeah, the human mind is too insanely complicated to happen at random

wait, that's evidence for intelligent design, not entropy violating random beneficial mutuations

and soul? who without a soul wonders whether or not there exists a soul? if you think you have no soul, you put yourself at the level of a beast, and probably act accordingly

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:12:49 2011 No.4132837 >>4132743 This. Seriously, people are so shit easy to troll with this whole "agnosticism is da way to go smoke weed erry day xDD". Just don't reply to these threads. Fuck.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:13:49 2011 No.4132841 >>4132834 >I see you're upset, and you may feel emotionally that I must be wrong, but you have put forth no clear argument as to what exactly I am wrong about and why. I don't need to, I have faith.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:14:06 2011 No.4132845 >>4132841 lol what the fuck are you doing on /sci/? are you just here to troll, or are you actually involved in the sciences in some way?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:14:58 2011 No.4132842

>>4132825
His Law is written on your heart
His glory is manifest in the heavens
His handiwork is shown throughout the earth
Knowledge of His existence is literally planted in your heart; to deny this is to cauterize your own soul, and to make yourself a fool
boy, are you going to feel stupid standing before Him and saying that you did not have enough proof from creation that the Creator exists

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:15:05 2011 No.4132849 >>4132828 Accent Roman history disproves the bible. There is many recording of people surviving execution by crucifixion if they were taken down as early as Christ. The idea behind the execution was meant to prolong death for as long as possible.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:15:05 2011 No.4132851 >>4132842 2/10

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:15:05 2011 No.4132852 Can we stop this topics that are not going anywhere, and just move on? Belive in god? Fine, don't belive? Good keep on. There.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:15:05 2011 No.4132853

>>4132826
what an awful strawman; that's actually only like a straw leg or so

more like, well, if God didn't write it, you have to come up with some other explanation for the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of fulfilled prophecies in it

God's Word is 100% on prophecy; the only way to knock it is to lie, and lie unconvincingly

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:15:05 2011 No.4132854 The existence of God CAN be proven, if God lets himself be proven.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:16:13 2011 No.4132856 >>4132827 Chris Rock: Niggers LOVE not knowin' shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:16:13 2011 No.4132857 >>4132854 False assumption.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:17:22 2011 No.4132864

>>4132821
>We now have good evidence that the big bang was autocatalytic and required no outside causal force
Which is...?
>neuroscience debunks the concept of soul as consciousness, personality or memories existing apart from the brain
Unless you assume the soul is the driver and the brain is the car.
>evolution devastates Christian doctrine for the reasons listed here
Uh, doesn't the Catholic Church accept evolution?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:18:29 2011 No.4132868 >>4132842 No thats not God, that Aken. >2011 >Still lives in one God.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:18:29 2011 No.4132869 >>4132857 foolish denial

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:18:29 2011 No.4132871 If God is real, why does he hide?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:20:45 2011 No.4132878

>>4132849
more lies
they were going to break Jesus' legs to hasten His death, but saw that they did not need to, as He was already dead. Just to be sure, they stabbed Him in the heart with a spear, and blood and water came out unmixed

He was flogged almost to death, then tortured some more, then crucified, then stabbed in the heart

if He were alive today, He would not be walking out of a hospital on the third day

and yet, He walked out of His grave on the third day, proving that He was who He said He is

the Great I Am

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:21:54 2011 No.4132880

>>4132842

>His Law is written on your heart

It's the other way around; Religious morality is a codified and organized writeup of what we feel to be right and wrong due to our own evolved altruistic instinct.

>His glory is manifest in the heavens

What does this mean? Space is beautiful, therefore god? That doesn't follow.

>His handiwork is shown throughout the earth

This is the creationist's argument from design and has been thoroughly debunked by going through many many species and showing exactly how they evolved.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:22:01 2011 No.4132883

>>4132871
1. to see Him is to die. do you really want to see Him in this body? Moses saw only His trailing wake, and Moses lit up like a lamp to the point where people couldn't even sleep around him

2. you will see Him

it is so much better to believe in Him before you see Him for yourself, that it is literally the difference between an eternity in bliss and an eternity in agony

but you will see Him, in all His glory

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:23:01 2011 No.4132885 >>4132825 If God didn't exist, you wouldn't exist. /thread

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:25:18 2011 No.4132895

>>4132864
>Which is...?

Stephen Hawking's new book is about it. Virtual particle pair division caused by quantum fluctuations. That isn't the mathematical "nothing", but lots of concepts in mathematics aren't reflected in reality, 'pure' nothingness appears to be one of them.

>Unless you assume the soul is the driver and the brain is the car.

That's precisely what I was assuming. That is debunked by neuroscience.

>Uh, doesn't the Catholic Church accept evolution?

Don't they still consider the Bible their holy book and inspired by God? The fact that they now accept evolution doesn't mean it's compatible with the actual content of their religion. That's a fallacious argument.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:25:18 2011 No.4132898

>>4132880
no, it means that God wrote His Law on your heart, so that you know "instincively" that killing your neighbor is wrong, as is taking his stuff, or porking his wife. you don't need to be taught these things are wrong; He gave you a conscience to tell you more than you need to know

religion is man's attempt to reach God. always fails. the only thing that works is God reaching down to us, and drawing us up to Him, which is what He did 2000 years ago, should you just believe

He made this earth for us to live on, and the heavens for guides; night and day, seasons, north star, all that stuff. just look at the star filled heavens, and when that sense of awe strikes you, add this thought:

the guy that put all those stars there wants to adopt me

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:25:18 2011 No.4132899 I've had weird things happen to me that seem pretty unexplainable by science. There's no way to know.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:26:25 2011 No.4132901 >>4132895 Sweet! we found the last guy that thinks that Stephen Hawking knows more than God!

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:26:25 2011 No.4132902 >>4132898 Damn right. Few thousands of years of debating, and bam - you've done it in a single post. Well done!

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:26:25 2011 No.4132905 >>4132899 No you haven't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:26:34 2011 No.4132906 File: 11 KB, 260x190, haroldcamping.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4132883 >but you will see Him, in all His glory On May 21st, 2011. Right?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:27:34 2011 No.4132911 >>4132899 science is literally taking itself out of the game, right when the game is changing to miracles and wonders almost as if an enemy of mankind wants to tear down its defenses for some infernal purpose....

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:27:34 2011 No.4132912 >>4132905 How do you know? Were you there?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:28:41 2011 No.4132914 >>4132906 lulz that he can raise millions after three (four?) false predictions should show you how desperate people are to believe i'm in the "no man knows the day nor hour" camp

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:28:41 2011 No.4132915 >>4132901 Yes he does, and even i do. Prove me wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:28:41 2011 No.4132916 >>4132912 Because you're an idiot and deceived by your own perception of reality. Yes, I was there.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:29:49 2011 No.4132917

>>4132878
>more lies
or you have only ever read one report of someone surviving crucifixion and flatly refuse to acknowledge that compared to every recorded crucifixion Jesus was taken down too early for it to be affective.

Bodies were left to rot on the cross, it was a punishment and warning to other.

To remove the boby implies it was stolen.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:29:49 2011 No.4132920

>>4132810
All true, apart from the fact the majority of theists arn't creationists and the christian church at the time supported Dawkins as they believed evolution was part of Gods plan. Evolution and God arn't mutaully exclusive, it's not one or the other, it can be both or neither aswell...

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:29:49 2011 No.4132921 >>4132915 God, or even one of God's disciples, could tell him to rise up and walk and yet, there he remains, stuck shitting in a wheelchair QED

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:30:58 2011 No.4132923 >>4132898 I refer you back to: >>4132880 Everything you wrote is completely wrong. Go back and read my post again and supplant your own mistaken ideas with the facts found there.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:31:05 2011 No.4132925

>>4132895
>That's precisely what I was assuming. That is debunked by neuroscience
Hmmnonono. I'd say that if there was no evidence whatsoever souls existed, but there have so many people who claim to have seen ghosts or whatever that we can't rule out their existence.
>The fact that they now accept evolution doesn't mean it's compatible with the actual content of their religion
I never got how atheists who claim Christianity is all nonsense turn around and then act like they're theologians who can determine what is and isn't a Christian.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:32:05 2011 No.4132926 If the Christian God was real why didn't he inform his followers of penicillin? It would of came in quite helpful? The false pagan Gods in the Americas informed their followers. Why is Christian God so dumb, didn't he know he created it?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:32:05 2011 No.4132928

>>4132914
>i'm in the "no man knows the day nor hour" camp

I'm in the "Jesus told his disciples that he would return before the last of them had died and therefore he expected to come back some time in the first century" camp.

He didn't come back in case you were wondering.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:33:14 2011 No.4132930

>>4132917
i only care about this one crucifixion victim, who actually did die, or more technically, laid down His life, so that i could live; yet not i, but He through me

you can believe as you will; however, if you look at what happened to the world, how it changed, how the disciples changed, how Rome changed, how the calendar changed, right when the Son of God rose from the dead, and explain it in a new and fascinating way, i'm all eyes

He was dead. beaten, flogged, punched, kicked, spit upon, mocked, pierced, hung, stabbed, inspected by a Roman centurion in charge of executions: He was dead.

that is not to say that another person might not have survived crucifixion; they certainly might have, for a number of reasons.

but this enemy of the state, this Jesus, whom both the joos and the romans wanted dead, dead, dead, was indeed dead, dead, dead

but only for three days

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:33:14 2011 No.4132931 >>4132921 Prove that god or god's disciples could do that. and even if you prove it, that would mean we have a really cruel god there whcih goes against the christian definition of god.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:33:21 2011 No.4132934 >>4132928 Or did he? He is probably a teenager or something, wait for him to grow up a bit.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:33:21 2011 No.4132935

>>4132920
>Evolution and God arn't mutaully exclusive

Evolution and the Christian god are. It doesn't just disprove creationism, it removes the reason for Christ's death. Original Sin followed the fall from grace, the Biblical term for Adam and Eve's ejection from the garden.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:34:21 2011 No.4132938

>>4132920
evolution and creation are mutually exclusive as currently stated, as it would require God to lie to Moses about how He created life on this planet.

if God lied to Moses, God is a liar, and if God is a liar, then God is not God, and would lie to me, or you, or anyone. this cannot be, and preserve hope

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:35:29 2011 No.4132941 Therefore, you cannot prove or disprove the existence of blue mushrooms riding unicorns

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:35:29 2011 No.4132944 >>4132923 not at all; i posted the truth, and you posted the next best thing; mankind's guesses if mankind's guesses are enough for you, so be it they were not enough for me

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:35:29 2011 No.4132945

>>4132925

>Hmmnonono. I'd say that if there was no evidence whatsoever souls existed, but there have so many people who claim to have seen ghosts or whatever that we can't rule out their existence.

What do you mean, "No"? I wasn't asking if you accept it, I was telling you that it's the case. You can deny neuroscience the same way creationists deny evolution, but you'll just find yourself where they are in a few decades. Soul believers are the next gen creationists.

>I never got how atheists who claim Christianity is all nonsense turn around and then act like they're theologians who can determine what is and isn't a Christian.

Possibly because we know more about your religion than you.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/28/nation/la-na-religion-survey-20100928

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:36:38 2011 No.4132949

>>4132926
can penicillan raise the dead? Jesus did, and His apostles did
can penicillan cure leprosy? Jesus did, and His apostles did
can penicillan cure the blind? Jesus did, and His apostles did
can penicillan cure the deaf? Jesus did, and His apostles did
can penicillan forgive sins? Jesus did

what is greater: raising the dead, healing the lame, the blind, the deaf, the leper

or penicillan?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:37:45 2011 No.4132954 >>4132928 John has not yet received the Revelation think about that for a moment John, the beloved disciple, exiled on Patmos HAS NOT YET RECEIVED THE REVELATION

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:38:45 2011 No.4132955 >>4132756 So, basically this: A scientific explanation (that doesn't ever require god) for the origin of the universe is held in the same regard as Pastafarianism (or whatever shit you make up)? Wow. What solid logic you got there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:38:45 2011 No.4132956 >>4132930 Show me any other historical document, other than a holy text that mentions Jesus's resurrection

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:38:54 2011 No.4132959

>>4132935
But it doesn't disprove theism in total.
>>4132938
>if God is a liar, then God is not God
Why the fuck not? Don't start pushing around this image you have of a personal loving god. God can take many forms depending on the person whos belief it is.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:38:54 2011 No.4132960

>>4132949
>can penicillan raise the dead? Jesus did, and His apostles did

No, that didn't actually happen.

>can penicillan cure leprosy? Jesus did, and His apostles did

No, that didn't actually happen. But science is likely to do so at some point.

>can penicillan cure the blind? Jesus did, and His apostles did

No, that didn't actually happen. But yes we do have crude bionic eyes now.

>can penicillan cure the deaf? Jesus did, and His apostles did

No, that didn't actually happen. But we do have cochlear implants now.

>can penicillan forgive sins? Jesus did

It doesn't really matter if a cult leader forgives someone's 'sins'. Jesus was just the Micheal Travesser or David Koresh of his day.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:38:54 2011 No.4132961 >>4132931 the history of them doing so is written plainly in the one place you would expect to find it; the Word of God but i'm guessing you're one of those people that throws out the bible, and yet demands the records that are in the bible

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:39:01 2011 No.4132965 >>4132949 Is Jesus real? Penicillin is. Jesus isn't and wasn't. Penicillin wins.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:39:54 2011 No.4132963

>>4132945
>You can deny neuroscience the same way creationists deny evolution, but you'll just find yourself where they are in a few decades
I did not deny neuroscience.
>Possibly because we know more about your religion than you
That old debunked article is the best argument you have? Weak.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:40:01 2011 No.4132966 >>4132941 and yet, i can contemplate the effect of whether or not this is true on my life, and make my decision accordingly i have decided that it is irrelevant to my life, but the housing of my soul after death is in my interests

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:40:01 2011 No.4132967

>>4132954

I don't follow. John is long dead. Jesus' statement said nothing about him receiving any revelation before he returned, just that he'd return while some standing there before him were still alive.

Is that the new theologian's excuse they use now or some shit?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:40:01 2011 No.4132968 >>4132949 > penicillin Penicillin has help more people than Jesus and His apostles. Bill Gates has helped cure more people than Jesus.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:40:01 2011 No.4132971 >>4132935 But you can assume that somewhere on the line, the first human (that would be human in the modern sense) had to have evolved. It does not require a literal reading of Genesis.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:41:09 2011 No.4132974 >>4132956 every joo and roman historian record the spread of christianity, and as they were hostile witnesses, maybe you'd be more inclined to read them than the bible

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:41:09 2011 No.4132975

>>4132959
>But it doesn't disprove theism in total.

Agreed. But hardly anyone is just a "theist". And even those who are got their idea of god from Christianity. There is no religion of theism, and even the deistic god can be traced back as a derivative of Yahweh.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:42:18 2011 No.4132978 >>4132959 if God is a liar, then we are all damned whatever percentage you have bet on God being a liar, you can discount it as nothing you could do would change your relationship with a lying god ala allah, or satan, or krishna, etc.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:42:18 2011 No.4132984
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god doesn`t exist because existence is (in summary) based on external perception and internal reflection, a perpetual game of catch and release between `spirit` and `matter`, concepts and innovations, art and science, positive and negative, virtues and vices, etcetc. existence, is, essentially, practical and also dependent on intangible abstractions. some of us are dominated by and lean towards either tendency of belief (whilst never fully reaching either pure matter or pure spirit). the catch is, we oscillate between states. free will is what determines the motion of this undercurrent and it`s not about whether or not there is concrete `free will`, it`s about the DEGREE of free will you have, which is determined by the degree of other free wills, the choices you have made with the degree of free will you have, and so on. once you start going against habit, you train the resilience of your free will. `god` is beyond existence and there is probably something beyond god, ad infinitum

i am bereft of proportion so you are going to have to excuse my incompetent design but this is basically what i mean if anyone can understand the picture. maybe i`m just a fuckwit `agnostic` but i try to make sense of relation :(

<---

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:42:25 2011 No.4132988

>>4132963
>I did not deny neuroscience.

Yes, you did.

>That old debunked article is the best argument you have? Weak.

When was it debunked? Show me. I've seen lots of studies along those lines, all with the same results.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/us/28religion.html

This one was done by the Pew Forums. If you don't consider that a credible source, you're just unwilling to be wrong.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:42:25 2011 No.4132989

>>4132960
yes, all those things happened

as a matter of fact, those things continue to happen to this day, only not right in front of you, because a) you lack faith; and b) you are never in the right place at the right time

if you think penicillan will get you to heaven, you have a wonkier religion than wiccans

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:43:25 2011 No.4132990 >>4132971 If you freely make any assumption that's necessary to salvage Christian theology, yeah you can salvage it. That isn't saying much.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:44:34 2011 No.4132995

>>4132989
>yes, all those things happened

No they didn't.

>as a matter of fact, those things continue to happen to this day, only not right in front of you, because a) you lack faith; and b) you are never in the right place at the right time

How convenient. Yet no amputee has ever regrown a leg through prayer.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:44:34 2011 No.4132997

>>4132967
no, you're just not seeing the obvious

picture a timeline as men have to live in a timeline

John was escorted over our timeline, to our future, and shown what is to be.

THAT HAS NOT YET HAPPENED

as a matter of fact, i fully intend to be present when John receives the revelation, and goes back to his own time, because that's what i do; i watch, and i warn

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:45:41 2011 No.4132998 >>4132968 then put your faith in penicillan and Bill Gates my faith will be on the Rock, Christ Jesus

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:45:41 2011 No.4133000

Agnostic = When one believes it is impossible to know whether a God exists.
You can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist.
When you believe God(s) exists/doesn't exist, but are open to believe the opposite.

Gnosticism = It is possible to know whether God exists or not.
Gnostic atheists are frickin' dumb.
Gnostic theists are equally stupid.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:45:41 2011 No.4133002 >>4132988 Agnosticfag here. It doesn't (to me at least) make a lot of sense. Because why would atheists spend all day studying something that they believe is nonsense? I believe Harry Potter is stupid, but I don't spend all day reading those books.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:45:41 2011 No.4133003

>>4132997

>John was escorted over our timeline, to our future, and shown what is to be.

Are you...I can't see your face right now. Are you being serious? Is this something you really believe? Did he save Sarah Connor from the terminator while he was there?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:46:49 2011 No.4133005 I'm a deist. I believe a life-giving force exists. I also believe it doesn't give a shit about us. So no religion is fully correct.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:46:49 2011 No.4133006

>>4132971
why on earth would i have to assume any such thing, when God Himself told Moses exactly what He did?

He made a man out of clay, and breathed life into him.

then, to make him a mate, He put Adam to sleep, removed a rib, and made a woman out of that rib.

in other words, He created Adam and Eve as mature adults, much in the same way that He created the earth as a fully mature eco-system

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:47:58 2011 No.4133010

>>4132961
What the word of god? I don't even...
That's no proof a theorem doesn't prove itself.
Also it's not a history it's a mere story, the lack of historic documents make it just a story. And of course i throw out the bible, it's really sensless and contradicts itself many many times, i know this beacause i have read a lot of it. Also what i demand records that are in the bible? I don't demand anything out of the bible, maybe i just wish that such an idiotic book would have never existed so i can have a little more faith in humanity

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:47:58 2011 No.4133011 Except, like any logical thinking person I base my beliefs on things that are proven. So I would never need god to be disproved, just to be proven. Just like all atheist do.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:48:05 2011 No.4133015

>>4132984
God does not conform to your ideas of existence; for one thing, God always was, and required no creator Himself. He is the Great I Am, the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end.

you cannot box the Creator into His creation; it is obviously distinct

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:49:13 2011 No.4133021 Bill Gates is a lot like God when you thing about it. they both created to systems that are heavily flawed but at least Bill has gone out his way to help 100s of 1000s of people that God has neglected.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:51:22 2011 No.4133023 Why did god give men nipples?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:52:29 2011 No.4133025
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The Bible says that in the beginning God said "Let there be light".

Light? Like, as in the tremendous light from the big bang? It's a dead giveaway. Genesis described the big bang thousands of years before scientists would catch up, and it was a Catholic scientist who discovered the big bang. He also pointed out that the Bible clearly says God started the universe with "let there be light", and science backs it up.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:52:29 2011 No.4133026

>>4132990
okay, i tried to enlighten you, but now i'll just explain what you are missing

God is timeless, and operates in a timeless dimension. a day is as a thousand years to Him, and a thousand years is as a day. in other words, He is not bound by time as we are.

of course the disciples thought He was coming back soon; He said He was coming back soon, and that the time for the Kingdom of God is at hand.

and yet, the Kingdom of God came down at pentecost, as the Spirit of God indwelled every believer, and does to this day. the Kingdom of God was not something they understood at first; Jesus taught so much about it, but you can still see they are grasping without understanding the nature of the Kingdom of God.

and when Jesus said to Peter, what do you care if John sees My return, be happy you're one of Mine; He meant it. John died after he received the revelation, but in our timeline, that has not yet happened.

that is the mystery i am explaining to you: a man actually travelled forwards, and backwards, in time, and wrote a book about it.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:54:45 2011 No.4133030

>>4132995
yes they did, and what is the fascination with amputees? in heaven, all men will be whole. if you are an amputee, which i doubt, rest assured in heaven you will be whole. if you are merely concerned for amputees, which i also doubt, rest assured that they will be whole in heaven. if you don't give a fuck about amputees, but are merely attempting to degrade the healing power of God, know that all men will be whole in heaven, whether they drowned, were cremated, or severed limb from limb.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:56:53 2011 No.4133033 >see same old tired troll post >I sure hope everyone ignores it this time >1 hour later >115 posts and 9 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:56:53 2011 No.4133034 >>4133003 no, he was given the vision of our future; the apocalypse, as it happens on earth, and it unfolds in the heavens there is literally a book that will tell you what the future brings, but will you read it?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:57:09 2011 No.4133039

>>4133005
that life giving force revealed itself to mankind, and even sent His Son to die for our sins

just knowing that He exists does you no good whatsoever; even the devil knows God exists

i suggest you learn more until you have an actual upside, apart from feeling intellectually superior to fools who say there is no God

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:57:09 2011 No.4133040 >>4133030 >miracles happen >but if you're a cripple, sucks to be you, my god doesn't like you

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:58:09 2011 No.4133042

>>4133025

God created light after the Earth, though. So "Let there be light" cannot be referring to the big bang unless you think the Earth existed before the big bang occurred:

>1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

>3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 14:59:17 2011 No.4133044 >>4133010 on what do you base your faith in humanity? Dachau? Buchenwald? Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Darfur? Riyhad? Tehran? Tienneman Square? the Killing Fields? the Gulags in Siberia? i'm curious; where does this faith in mankind's goodness flow from?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:00:26 2011 No.4133048

>>4133011
you will have all the proof you desire

and then you will be cast into hell for not believing when you had the chance

does that sound like fun to you? if you think i'm kidding, read the bible. God kills people. millions of people. sometimes at once.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:00:26 2011 No.4133050

>>4133026
>okay, i tried to enlighten you, but now i'll just explain what you are missing

And they say it's atheists who are arrogant.

>God is timeless, and operates in a timeless dimension

How do you know? It doesn't say that in the Bible.

>of course the disciples thought He was coming back soon; He said He was coming back soon

He didn't say "soon", he specifically said "Some of you standing here before me will witness my return". You're trying to play fast and loose here, cut it out.

>that is the mystery i am explaining to you: a man actually travelled forwards, and backwards, in time, and wrote a book about it.

Not really, though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:01:33 2011 No.4133051 >>4133023 to find his cigarettes while drunk in the dark --apologies to ron white

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:01:33 2011 No.4133052 >>4133030 >yes they did, and what is the fascination with amputees? It's something that doesn't ordinarily heal itself, like every other malady purported to have been cured by prayer.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:02:41 2011 No.4133054 >>4133044 My faith in humanity doesnt come from weakilings empathy, but rationallity, meaning: Science, more like a general intelligence of humanity, things like christianty make me loose faith in humanity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:02:41 2011 No.4133056 >>4133034 >there is literally a book that will tell you what the future brings, but will you read it? I did, I have six years of theological education under my belt. It was a tremendous waste of six years and Revelations is the ravings of a lunatic.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:02:41 2011 No.4133058

>>4133025
bigger. light. as in, the entire universe was lit up. light, light errywhere. light not even separated from darkness yet. intense, white, light

that is not the big bang; the big bang is a firecracker next to God's Word. a wet firecracker. a wet firecracker that doesn't exist.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:03:50 2011 No.4133060 >>4133056 ah, hello, brother. i hope someday you forgive whatever seminary you went to from sucking the life out of your faith. i still pray that God restores in you the joy of your salvation

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:04:50 2011 No.4133063 >>4133040 He healed several cripples but not every cripple

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:04:57 2011 No.4133064
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Theists always get trounced so hard in these threads it's difficult to watch. It's perverse but also inspiring how they stick with it. It's like they don't realize their losses aren't due to atheists being dicks but the fact that their position is indefensible. Seeing projection actually happen in realtime like this is fascinating.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:05:06 2011 No.4133069 >>4133050 Jesus. John. standing next to each other. John sees the Second Coming of Christ before he dies. do i need to do this in ms paint for you?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:05:06 2011 No.4133070
File: 1.09 MB, 2028x3028, babe_babes_big+tits_huge+tits_morebabes_solo_2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Better to have fun in hell than get bored in heaven.

THERE'S AN ATHEIST ORGY AT SATAN'S AND EVERYONE'S INVITED!!!
ALL THE WHORE'S AND GIGOLO'S YOU COULD WANT!!!

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:05:06 2011 No.4133072

>>4133063
>He healed several cripples

How do you know?

>It says so in the Bible

The Bible, a book written by Christians for the purpose of convincing others that the Christian religion is correct. I'm sure that's a credible source.

Why, then, do you doubt the miracles described in the Qur'an?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:05:57 2011 No.4133066 >>4133063 LAZY FUCKER!

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:05:57 2011 No.4133067 File: 54 KB, 552x224, haha suck on this.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4132725

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:07:13 2011 No.4133075

>>4133052
we still can't cure leprosy or death, but Jesus and His disciples could

quit thinking we're better than them. we're not. our technology is more advanced than theirs, but as human beings are concerned, them > us

code doesn't magically get better and better the more it's copied; quite the opposite

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:08:22 2011 No.4133078

>>4133069

>Jesus. John. standing next to each other.

John sees the Second Coming of Christ before he dies.

That is not where Jesus made the statement that those standing before him would live to see his return.

Also, you're really gonna hate this: There's another verse where Jesus is more specific. He says that his return will occur "before this generation has passed".

>do i need to do this in ms paint for you?

No, but it wouldn't kill you to capitalize properly.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:08:22 2011 No.4133079 >>4133054 okay, i'll bite. what is the meaning of life, if we are a random collection of mutuations living in a meaningless universe headed towards an inevitable heat death? have you really thought out your philosophy?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:08:22 2011 No.4133081

>>4133015

that`s what i`m saying, we, being the box and essentially the creators of the box, the inaugurators of complex systems such as mathematics and languages, are confined to understanding the universe through various filters. if we did not have these filters (if these filters were not innate and probably an evolutionary consequence of matters will to survive and understand its polar opposite) we would be overwhelmed and perception (the primary function of which is organization) would be a chaotic, blundering mess. materialistic points of view are certainly more plausible but they don`t take into account the sensational aspect of the world. our comprehension needs order. sensation would be sporadic and unstable, (jazz fusion if i had to put it to a metaphor), if it were not for the barrier of matter. `god` which exists outside of this framework, is an ineffible sensation. a chimerical sphere on which all is based. a void, a nothing, eternity. all-seeing, because its memory resevoir cannot be eradicated. what has been will always be. time is tricky like that.

but don`t worry! if infinity is plausible, then the chances of you reappearing are infinitely as high as you not appearing! so within a lifetime, you do both of those things! you are born, and you die!

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:08:22 2011 No.4133085 >>4133075 >we still can't cure leprosy or death, but Jesus and His disciples could No they couldn't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:09:29 2011 No.4133086 >>4132752 why are those three guys stuck together? or is it like an anthropomorphised life support machine?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:09:29 2011 No.4133087 >>4133066 lulz He is currently keeping every single atom from detonating

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:09:29 2011 No.4133088

>>4133079
>what is the meaning of life, if we are a random collection of mutuations living in a meaningless universe headed towards an inevitable heat death?

The purpose of intelligent life is to solve the problem of heat death. We are how the universe renews itself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:09:29 2011 No.4133090 >be OP of this thread >see that my troll worked nicely >get ready to delete it >get banned for something on another board >have to reset my router >can't delete thread now Well...looks like this is headed for 300 replies.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:09:29 2011 No.4133091 File: 252 KB, 1000x1000, aggnatth.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I just did this. Fresh OC.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:10:37 2011 No.4133093

>>4133079
>what is the meaning of life, if we are a random collection of mutuations living in a meaningless universe headed towards an inevitable heat death?

You clearly haven't thought about your philosophy if you haven't even heard of Camus, Kierkegaard, and Sarte.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:11:46 2011 No.4133095

>>4133072
buncha reasons. for one, they had to be amended when they didn't happen as scheduled. two, satanic verses. three, mohammad was 54 and married a 6 year old. four, can't get over 3. five, mohammad was abandoned by his family as a child due to being demon possessed. six, still can't get over what a maniacal kiddie raper he was. seven, he plagarized the bible to a shameless extent. eight, he never made one prophecy on his own come true. nine, he died in dispair. ten, his followers worship satan.

poor, poor aleysha. 6 years old, and married to a demon possessed murderer

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:11:46 2011 No.4133098 File: 115 KB, 986x591, horyshet.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4133088 >The purpose of intelligent life is to solve the problem of heat death. We are how the universe renews itself. .....I like this.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:12:46 2011 No.4133100
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I think, as gods go, Pallas Athene is more to /sci/'s liking.

Wisdom, courage, inspiration, civilization, warfare, strength, strategy, the arts, crafts, justice, and skill

She's got something for every kind of /sci/cko.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:13:02 2011 No.4133107

>>4133078
dude, i'm so close to busting out the ms paint for you

you're obviously conflating two events

now you're on about the generation. guess what? you're in that generation. the generation being spoken of is the generation that sees the re-emergence of the nation of israel, the beginning of sorrows, the tribulation, and the second coming of Christ Jesus

get your facts straight; if you say the bible is wrong, guess what? your facts are not straight

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:13:02 2011 No.4133108 >>4133091 As I understand it Kierkegaard emphasized an ethical, philosophical form of Christianity rather than one based on the supernatural. In short, his Christianity was closer to Buddhism or Taoism that what we'd usually think of.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:13:53 2011 No.4133106

>>4133095
> for one, they had to be amended when they didn't happen as scheduled.

But that has happened with the Bible too. It was edited heavily after the fact to claim that prophesies had come true, and moderate Christianity is itself an amendment of Christian doctrine to account for Genesis being completely wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:14:09 2011 No.4133111 File: 187 KB, 789x680, atheistfrog.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This is for all you real /sci/ducks here.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:15:09 2011 No.4133112

>>4133081
all men die, and then the judgment. but if you are only born once, you will die twice, and the second death is permanent

if you are born again, then death has no dominion over you, and you will live forever in glory

3 is the magic number: 1 birth, 2 deaths, or 2 births, 1 death.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:15:17 2011 No.4133117 >>4133085 yes, yes they did

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:17:26 2011 No.4133122 >>4133088 chop chop so far, you are panicking about a .5C rise in temperature on the planet dunno how you're going to solve the big heat death problem, if you can't get that right

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:17:26 2011 No.4133125 what about.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possibilianism

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:17:33 2011 No.4133128 >>4133091 nice

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:18:33 2011 No.4133133 >>4133093 why listen to men, when you can get revelations from God? who is the better source for information?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:18:33 2011 No.4133134 Could the Christian god exist? Certainly. So could Allah, Shiva, Zeus, Thor, Quetzacoatl, etc. Since none can be proven or disproven and all are as likely as any other, the only sense is to be an agnostic.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:20:50 2011 No.4133139

>>4133106
1. Genesis is literally right. accurate and precise. a history of how God created the universe. at the risk of the no true scotsman fallacy, i cannot understand how any christian could say that Genesis is wrong, but Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and the Revelation of Jesus Christ are right. the bible is an all-or-nothing proposition; either it is inspired by an omniscient God, or it is not

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:22:06 2011 No.4133151

Agnostic atheists.

They don't know if god exists or not. (obviously, no one does)

They don't believe god exists because of reasons.

Agnosticism is the first step, every honest man is agnostic, the question is about belief...what do you believe, and why

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:22:57 2011 No.4133146 >>4133139 And it can be synced with our knowledge of the earth's development. I have had it explained to me that it was a symbolic way of explaining this at a time when people didn't understand biology, geology, etc.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:22:57 2011 No.4133147

>>4133107
>dude, i'm so close to busting out the ms paint for you

You're a Christian, i.e. not in a position to be patronizing other people. You openly hold very very stupid beliefs, have some humility about it.

>now you're on about the generation. guess what? you're in that generation.

No, because in context Jesus was answering his disciples who wanted to know if the world was really to end soon and how they would recognize it. He described to them a series of signs and affirmed when asked that it would all occur before their generation had passed.

>get your facts straight; if you say the bible is wrong, guess what? your facts are not straight

Lol. "I'm right because I'm right and you know something is wrong if it contradicts what I believe because what I believe is right because I say it's right!" Gotcha.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:23:06 2011 No.4133153 >>4133122 >so far, you are panicking about a .5C rise in temperature on the planet I am? >dunno how you're going to solve the big heat death problem, if you can't get that right Luckily we have billions of years to do it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:24:13 2011 No.4133157 >>4132725 It has to be proven, it doesn't have to be disproven. Agnostics are retarded. The end.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:24:13 2011 No.4133159

>>4133139
>1. Genesis is literally right. accurate and precise. a history of how God created the universe.

But it isn't. We have direct obvious inarguable proof that it's not. You can go outside at night and measure the parallax of stars and confirm for yourself by their distance that the light would have to have been traveling for billions of years to reach you. If you're not satisfied by that, you simply don't want to be wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:24:13 2011 No.4133161 >>4133134 For that matter, atheism is also no more-or-less probable than any other religion.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:25:21 2011 No.4133162 >>4133112 lol that reminds me of this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNdbivfvIzg i do love the number 3 but which doctrine have you extracted this from? christianity?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:25:21 2011 No.4133163

>>4133146
>And it can be synced with our knowledge of the earth's developmen

No it can't. It gets the order completely wrong. It says the Earth existed before the sun, the sun before other stars, that plants on land preceded animals, that birds and fish arrived at the same time and that land animals arrived after birds.

How is that synchronized with what science tells us?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:25:21 2011 No.4133166

>>4133091
What about someone who accepts god yet doesn't believe.

This is more than just immature defiance. I accept that god existing and not existing is the same thing. Both believing and not believing in god is equally valid because they have precisely the same consequences. Fucking none. it's what happens afterwards that brings all the implications.

I can say I believe in god just as easily as I say I don't believe in God. Both statements are equally meaningless and meaningful to me.

I'm not an atheist because I assert that god exists. it certainly exists in some aspects (even just as an idea) and we might as well say yes to it existing in the unknown. I'm permitted because it makes no difference (of course any branching out to particulars involves no more than a long line of nonsequiturs and fallacies) and it keeps people happy. There has to be a basis for reality, in absence of knowledge (a name) we may as well call that god until we learn more. There will always be something unknown/unknowable at least individually if not collectively.
I accept god as the uncaused cause but appreciate that there is no implications coming from this.

I am not a theist because I see no reason/ justification/motive to believe god is particularly out for or against me. A god that exists and demands my belief is just as likely as a god that exists and doesn't require my belief.

To call me agnostic would be unnecessarily superfluous. we're all agnostics now. in a way this entire issue is formed from ignorance. the question certainly is, obviously, because ignorance is beautiful. it doesn't permit many assertions though.

I don't believe in any God, but I do assert that there is a God.

I believe in god therefore there is no god.
I don't believe in god therefore there is a god.
There is no god but I believe in him. - hope
There is a God and I don't believe in him. - antitheist, defying or practical and understanding.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:26:30 2011 No.4133176

>>4133161
>For that matter, atheism is also no more-or-less probable than any other religion.

Except in cases where religions have core doctrinal claims about the natural world which have been debunked by science. That makes them objectively less likely to be true.

As a consequence, among all religions currently dominant, all of them are less plausible than atheism by that measure.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:27:37 2011 No.4133179
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>>4133133
>who is the better source for information?
Well, according to you, your god is the biggest fucking liar and hoaxer ever.

According to you, he lies to us by making the universe seem older than it is, by making up evidence of creatures that never lived and making up rules that cause you to break other rules made up by him.

So I'd even take Hitler's word over the word of your god.
ANY DAY.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:28:46 2011 No.4133182 >>4133125 there are many ways that seem right to a man, but they all end in death this would be one of those ways

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:29:46 2011 No.4133187 >>4133133 your source is still just men. men telling you what god says and theres no difference between this and men lying to you about what god says

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:30:53 2011 No.4133190 >>4133182 theism has as much chance of ending in death as any other way. faith provides no certainty of afterlife.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:31:01 2011 No.4133196

>>4133146
they lied to you

once you get your head around the idea that the universe was spoken into existence in six days by an omnipotent being, all this other shit goes away. there was no big bang. there was no universe creating itself via gravity. there was no monkey that gave birth to Adam and Eve. there were dinosaurs on the ark; baby ones, i would presume. there was a worldwide catastrophic flood. again and again and again the bible is right, and "science" is wrong

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:32:10 2011 No.4133202

>>4133166
>I don't believe in any God, but I do assert that there is a God.

>There is no god but I believe in him.

>There is a God and I don't believe in him

Those things are beyond retarded. Seriously, this are some of the most stupid possible religious positions I ever heard. Even if one would take the spaghetti monster serioulsy it would still make more sense than this.

BELIEVE :
>to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so

You can't believe in something you think that doesn't exist. That is to say you believe in something you don't believe.

You are just confused and you are an agnostic atheist by the way.

The whole Sagan quote goes like this
>Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Others—for example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einstein—considered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws.
and
>But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:32:17 2011 No.4133206 File: 75 KB, 677x738, 4chan sci, full of JUSTICE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Where lieth our righteous mods?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:33:25 2011 No.4133209

>>4133147
and those signs are happening right in front of you

how many other 2000 year old countries spring back into existence?
do you even know what the beginning of sorrows is? wars, and rumors of wars, and earthquakes in divers places, and famine, and pestilence

all happening right now, and all started in 1948

of course they wanted to know when their Master was returning; only, they did not understand one thing

He will return when the time of the gentiles is full, and not one moment earlier. He will come at a time when nobody expects Him, and the only real question is, when He returns, will He find faith on the earth?

if it is up to me, then yes, yes He will

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:34:25 2011 No.4133210 OP is a liar and bad person.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:34:25 2011 No.4133212 >>4133153 ZOMG AGW GLOBAL WARMING ZOMG that's you

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:35:34 2011 No.4133218 >>4133163 >No it can't. It gets the order completely wrong That's really nitpicking/grasping at straws.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:36:41 2011 No.4133226

>>4133159
not at all. i understand something you seem to have forgotten. light years are a measure of distance, not time, and as to your parallax theory, i seem to recall a really popular redshift theory that has since been debunked

but if you want to follow science, which prides itself on continually being wrong, and continually proving that the giants that preceded them were wrong, be my guest

it's just not good enough for me

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:36:41 2011 No.4133230

>>4133202
>You can't believe in something you think that doesn't exist.

Thats the opposite of what I said.

I said it exists but dont believe in it.

god does exist in at least 1 form and (an idea in peoples minds). and he exists in a second form as the uncaused cause. he exists as the unknown. So god definitely does exist. But I dont believe in god because there is nothing in particular to have faith in. since we know nothing and to believe in god would be to pretend that your belief actually matters. it may matter and it may not. to believe is to doubt. You dont need to believe in things that are true. I dont need to believe I need oxygen to live in order to keep breathing.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:36:41 2011 No.4133231
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>>4133196
>once you get your head around the idea that the universe was spoken into existence in six days by an omnipotent being, all this other shit goes away. there was no big bang. there was no universe creating itself via gravity. there was no monkey that gave birth to Adam and Eve. there were dinosaurs on the ark; baby ones, i would presume. there was a worldwide catastrophic flood. again and again and again the bible is right, and "science" is wrong

Will someone remind me again why we allow people like this to live?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:37:50 2011 No.4133234 >>4133162 there are many significant numbers in the bible; 3, 6, 7, 40, etc. 3 being the godhead, and the way to the godhead, and the trinity; 6 the number of man; 7 the number of perfection; 40 the number of trial

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:37:50 2011 No.4133235 >>4133212 >that's you But it isn't. I don't even know you.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:38:57 2011 No.4133239
File: 82 KB, 400x368, 1901.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I view God the same way I view leprechauns or the Easter Bunny, that is to say I don't include God in my model of reality. If one showed me a mathematical proof that God cannot exist I wouldn't alter my model of reality in the slightest because there would be nothing to alter. I cannot believe in God any less and I cannot "not believe" in God any more.

What am I?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:39:05 2011 No.4133247 >>4133163 why do you believe the creation over the Creator?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:39:05 2011 No.4133248 >>4133163 You don't suppose one can read "And God said 'Let there be light.''" and take it to mean the event of the Big Bang?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:39:57 2011 No.4133245

>>4133218
>That's really nitpicking/grasping at straws.

How? In what possible sense? Are you fucking kidding me?

You said it synchs up with what science as revealed. But objectively it doesn't. The order is completely wrong. That's not grasping at straws it's a direct, unambiguous refutation of your central point. What more could you ask for?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:40:14 2011 No.4133251 >>4133166 you are one confused motherfucker there is "for Jesus" and "against Jesus" pick one, and live with the consequences

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:42:21 2011 No.4133258

>>4133226
>not at all. i understand something you seem to have forgotten. light years are a measure of distance, not time,

You're smarter than this. You can figure out with a little thought that if we know how fast light travels, and we can measure the distance to stars, we can know how long it takes light to traverse that distance.

>and as to your parallax theory, i seem to recall a really popular redshift theory that has since been debunked

The calculation above does not rely on redshift. If we're honest you're simply searching for excuses to dismiss what I've said.

>it's just not good enough for me

Nothing ever will be. You're dogmatic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:42:21 2011 No.4133261 >>4133179 fine, follow hitler, and end up where hitler is but saying that God created a "turn-key" universe doesn't imply anything except that He made it ready for us to live in from Day Six.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:43:30 2011 No.4133266 >>4133187 no, i go to God, the source of all truth; He is alive, and accessible, and loving, and more than capable of communicating with His creations

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:43:30 2011 No.4133267

>>4133248
>You don't suppose one can read "And God said 'Let there be light.''" and take it to mean the event of the Big Bang?

No, because in Genesis, god says let there be light after he creates the Earth. Someone already pointed this out earlier in the thread. Unless you think the Earth existed before the big bang, "let there be light" cannot be referring to it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:44:37 2011 No.4133272 agree

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:45:45 2011 No.4133276

>>4133190
faith in Jesus Christ is the ONLY thing that provides for an afterlife without regret. and by regret, i mean the whole weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth thing, burning alive, yet never dying, and each moment worse than the last

only one person, one God, can save you from that, and wants to save you from that, and has provided a way for you to be saved from that, and that is to believe that Jesus Christ is who He says He is; that he really died, really rose from the dead, and really is the Lord of All

believe that, and live

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:46:00 2011 No.4133284 >>4133276 Thats only an idea taught to you. it's one of many which are among even more numerous potential realities.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:46:00 2011 No.4133285

>>4133231
people like you don't allow people like me to live

people like you put my Lord on a cross

people like you want the world population to be reduced to 500,000,000

people like you, well, there's a reason for the existence of a hell, and it's people like you, following your father, the father of lies, into a place not meant for you

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:47:01 2011 No.4133291 >>4133235 then it's not you i don't know you either but if your main concern is the heat death of the universe, and you think global warming is a problem, do you see the funny?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:47:01 2011 No.4133292 >>4133285 >people like you don't allow people like me to live Good.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:48:01 2011 No.4133295 >>4133163 So the compiler of Genesis put the days in the wrong order. Your point?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:48:01 2011 No.4133297 >>4133285 all your ideas of god were given to you by men. Anything else is equally likely.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:48:01 2011 No.4133298 >>4133239 the fool has said in his heart, there is no god you would be one of those

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:48:10 2011 No.4133300 >>4133291 >but if your main concern is the heat death of the universe, and you think global warming is a problem, do you see the funny? No. Not really. We need to keep the hot stuff hot and the cool stuff cool. Think of it like the McDLT.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:49:17 2011 No.4133310 >>4133248 some catholic bishop did; that's where the whole big bang concept came from thank God my predecessors broke off from that evil institution

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:50:17 2011 No.4133313

there is no theist on 4chan and even if he was, he would never skulk this frequently. I mean the guy handing out the threats of hell here usually joins in somewhere at the middle of every religion thread on /sci/. there's no way a theist would visit 4chan frequntly enough to be able to join in that many threads. its simply a committed troll, a very bored and procrastinating person.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:51:27 2011 No.4133317 >>4133091 Really? Kierkegaard was the best example you could find? Anyone who is spiritual but "on the fence" would fit into that category, which is the vast majority of intelligent people and scientists.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:51:27 2011 No.4133320
File: 119 KB, 674x374, biblicalcosmology.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4133295
>So the compiler of Genesis put the days in the wrong order. Your point?

My point is that he did so because he wasn't recieving that information from god. It's not just a matter of putting things out of order, but also getting the timescale completely wrong, as well as the structure of the cosmos (pic related).

All of this is completely typical of primitive misconceptions about the world and life on it that were prevalent in all other creation myths/holy books. We don't make excuses for them, because nobody cares if they're simply wrong. You only make elaborate excuses for the Christian creation myth because you're personally invested.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:52:33 2011 No.4133321

>>4133258
if we make HUGE assumptions without ANY BASIS in facts whatsoever, sure we can.

bible says the Lord stretched out the heavens. do you know what that means? that means that the Lord stretched out the heavens. and, i wonder, how far would an infinite God stretch something out? hmmmm......

also, inb4 light speed has been constant forever (it clearly has not), and that we can make linear predictions going back "billions" of years from data collected in the last decade.

that's not even worth a lulz

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:52:33 2011 No.4133326 >>4133298 >you would be one of those Yes, the Bible says that people who don't believe the Bible are fools. Why oh why would the authors of the Bible write such a thing, I just cannot for the life of me figure out their motives.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:52:33 2011 No.4133328 >>4133292 yes, you are a proper lying murderous son of the father of lies i like people like you. it's the lukewarm people that make me uneasy. with you, i know not to turn my back

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:53:42 2011 No.4133329 >>4133295 Well, that same book claims that it is infallible and absolute truth. So it either is or it isn't.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:54:49 2011 No.4133335

>>4133300
hey, my universe is only 6000 years old. i can explain why there are stars and comets in it with vastly different temperatures

your universe is, what, 16.4 billion years old? and yet we watch small comets come apart every few years?

if i walk into a room where there is a hot cup of coffee, and an intact ice cream cone, i don't know when they were put there, but i do know it hasn't been very long

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:54:49 2011 No.4133337 >>4133329 Where exactly does it say the compiler putting the days in the wrong order is absolute truth? Again, grasping at straws.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:55:49 2011 No.4133339

>>4133321
>if we make HUGE assumptions without ANY BASIS in facts whatsoever, sure we can.

No, making huge assumptions is the basis of theology, as seen here:
>>4132864
>Unless you assume the soul is the driver and the brain is the car.
>>4132971
But you can assume that somewhere on the line, the first human (that would be human in the modern sense) had to have evolved. It does not require a literal reading of Genesis.

Theists assume. Atheists get the facts.

>bible says the Lord stretched out the heavens.

It also says he put a domelike firmament over the Earth with an ocean above allowed through trap doors, and that's why we have rain.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:56:06 2011 No.4133347 >>4133313 uh, hello, here i am, and have been, for years....

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:56:57 2011 No.4133346

>>4133335
>if i walk into a room where there is a hot cup of coffee, and an intact ice cream cone, i don't know when they were put there, but i do know it hasn't been very long

Please cite some examples of anomalous heavenly bodies which suggest a young universe. Be specific and provide studies or articles in credible publications.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:57:13 2011 No.4133350

>>4133320
the order was not wrong
the timing was not wrong
the events were not wrong
the retelling was not wrong
nothing is wrong, except for your anti-God ways to describe the creation of the earth

and why wouldn't i take the word of the Creator, a first-hand account, who actually did the work, over some geek peering into a telescope?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:58:13 2011 No.4133351 But how can we KNOW if that's true, OP?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 15:59:22 2011 No.4133358 >>4133326 lulz yeah, we're all just suckers from the best bookselling tour of all time

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:00:29 2011 No.4133363 >>4133320 God did not personally stand behind every author of the Bible and dictate the contents. Even the RCC doesn't claim that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:00:29 2011 No.4133369 >>4133339 wow, you aren't even aware of your own assumptions light speed constant forever? gravity effect the speed of light? universal center of gravity where? speed of light instantaneous when? come back when you have some actual thoughts

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:00:29 2011 No.4133371

>>4133337

>Where exactly does it say the compiler putting the days in the wrong order is absolute truth?

Can we have a moment of honesty here? You didn't know the order was wrong. You had been led to believe that the sequence of events in Genesis lined up with the events described by science, with the only difference being timescale. When shown that was not the case, you were frustrated and changed tactics. You're now attempting to halt or disrupt the argument by way of semantics in order to save face.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:01:37 2011 No.4133375 >>4133346 sun: hot haley's comet: cold too scientificky?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:02:46 2011 No.4133381

>>4133358

>yeah, we're all just suckers from the best bookselling tour of all time

Yes, that's about the size of it. Isn't that what you believe about Islam, Mormonism, Scientology and so on? Yet you don't think it's absurd to suggest such a thing about those religions.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:02:46 2011 No.4133383 Is it just me, or are atheists the most staunch Biblical literalists I've ever met? Weird to end up doing the exact same thing you criticise Christians for.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:03:53 2011 No.4133385

>>4133346
spiral galaxies where? why not formless disks?
spot on jupiter went where?
comets errywhere breaking into pieces? still?
sun still hot? comets still ice? space still cold?
dust where? why hubble pics so amazing devoid of debris?
why photos of stars so vivid?
why is everything moving away from us uniformly?

yeah, think a bit and get back to me on your bs

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:04:01 2011 No.4133389

>>4133363

>God did not personally stand behind every author of the Bible and dictate the contents.

I never suggested such a thing. But if God had any involvement whatsoever, we should expect small mistakes, but not for the entire thing to be 100% completely incorrect.

>>4133383

>Is it just me, or are atheists the most staunch Biblical literalists I've ever met? Weird to end up doing the exact same thing you criticise Christians for.

I know you're trolling, but atheists don't believe the Bible to be literally correct. Only that many parts of it which have been proven incorrect, and which moderates have redefined as metaphor in order to save face, were in fact intended to be a literal historical account and were simply wrong due to the comparative ignorance of the authors and the times they lived in.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:04:01 2011 No.4133390

>>4133230
>Thats the opposite of what I said.
I left out because that is equally illogical.

You are losing yourself in words, man. You should avoid internet discussions and get to books. When Nietzche says "god is dead" or when Sartre dissects the "soul" they are talking about deeper meanings of it, they are talking about the human factor, the mythology, the words in their own meanings. You can't compare that to the basic discussion we are having here, which is a cosmological stance, not an epistemological one.

You are a full atheist, man. You just understand that god is not a mere word and you are right.

The comparisson to other things comes in handy in situations like this. Think about what you are saying and see if it applies to Santa or to fairies.

If you get lost in words all the time, you can't join any discussion at all. On the internet you are hardly going to bump someone eager to talk about it outside the cosmological view.

We are merely asking: do you think god created the universe? do you think there is some sort of mind behind the events in said universe?

You said so yourself: no. So you are an atheist.

If you want to go deeper, than we won't be talking about beliefs or "thinking it's true", you'll be talking about objectivism, subjectivism, knowledge, etc.

You can't acknowledge something and say you don't believe in it. If you know you breath oxygen, you believe in oxygen. If you stop believing in it, you'll say "I don't know what I breathe" and so on. In the end you are still breathing, but still.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:04:53 2011 No.4133386
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>>4133261
So I should believe what your god SAYS instead of believing what he DOES?

So the reason why christians are such hypocrites is that your GOD is a huge hypocrite and you're trying to emulate him?

That's actually the most sane thing I've ever heard from a christian mouth.

And that is fucking hilarious.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:04:53 2011 No.4133387 >>4133381 >Isn't that what you believe about Islam, Mormonism, Scientology and so on? Yet you don't think it's absurd to suggest such a thing about those religions Projection.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:05:10 2011 No.4133398 >>4133363 the Holy Spirit indwelled and inspired each and every author of the bible you are free to believe as you choose good luck coming up with a non-deity solution to the problem of 100% accurate prophecy protip: you'll have to lie

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:06:10 2011 No.4133401 >>4133385 All of those are thoroughly explained by physics. it's like you're telling a biologist that nobody knows what happens inside a cell, because you personally don't and assume it's still a mystery to everyone.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:07:17 2011 No.4133404

>>4133381
not at all; the bible warns about false messiahs, false teachers, and false prophets

it even goes so far to say that if an angel tells you something other than what the bible teaches, it is false

satan is an angel. satan, moroni, "gabriel"; these men were deceived, and their followers deceived, by the father of lies

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:07:17 2011 No.4133408 File: 76 KB, 766x450, sci.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] what if god created revolution?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:08:26 2011 No.4133409

>>4133386
how in the world did you get that from what i posted?

i am following Jesus to heaven. millions of people are following Jesus to heaven.

billions of other people are following other things to hell. if you want to follow hitler, you will end up in hell, with hitler

that's the way it works

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:09:33 2011 No.4133411 It seems painfully obvious that this thread consists of one troll and one or more idiots/12-year-olds.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:09:33 2011 No.4133412

>>4133389
>but not for the entire thing to be 100% completely incorrect
Which is a fallacious argument since only atheists believe that. You won't find any Christians who share that opinion.
>I know you're trolling, but atheists don't believe the Bible to be literally correct
They do. They argue that it's impossible for any of it to be symbolic/metaphorical.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:10:41 2011 No.4133415 >>4133401 wow, they so totally are not you're not up on theology, or modern science you should really learn some diligence

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:11:50 2011 No.4133421 >>4132878 really.. What YEAR was he crucified?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:11:50 2011 No.4133426 Agnotics wins because they don't care, they take and accept what comes. While atheists and religous fags spending their life shitting on eachother and then they die

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:13:06 2011 No.4133435 >>4133408 ain't that the truth; modern science has about as much in common with classical science as modern art has to do with renaissance art

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:14:06 2011 No.4133437 File: 169 KB, 481x423, 1311897792808.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >2011 >wasting time thinking about unfalsifiable things ISHYGDDT

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:14:06 2011 No.4133439 >>4133421 @30 AD why?

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:14:06 2011 No.4133440

>>4133398

>good luck coming up with a non-deity solution to the problem of 100% accurate prophecy

The confirmations were written years and sometimes decades after the events. It is very easy to claim, after the fact, that a prophesy was correct. Also on numerous occasions it's openly stated in the Bible that journeys were made and actions undertaken *specifically for the purpose* of fulfilling prophesies that remained unfulfilled up to that point.

Watch, I'll do it.

I prophesy that a picture of a tiger will be posted in this thread.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:15:21 2011 No.4133447 >>4133404 >not at all; the bible warns about false messiahs, false teachers, and false prophets But you yourself said earlier that the prospect of a religion not being true and in fact being a "very long successful book tour" was absurd. Which is it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:16:21 2011 No.4133448 >>4133426 agnostics lose, errytime if the universe picked teams, agnostics would be the fat kid with asthma

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:18:37 2011 No.4133453

>>4133440
take a deep breath
learn that the old and new testaments are separated by 400 years
google "300 prophecies fulfilled by Jesus Christ"
read the list
get a clue
the information is literally at your fingertips
ANY prophecy Jesus fulfilled was at LEAST 400 years prior to His birth
and if you think He can pick to whom He was born, and of a virgin, in retrospect, you are clueless

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:19:45 2011 No.4133456

>They do. They argue that it's impossible for any of it to be symbolic/metaphorical.

Cool straw man. Calm down. You know full well atheists don't argue that. It's a hyperbole because you're upset with atheists right now and don't feel any reservations about lying about what they actually argue.

I am an atheist, and I don't believe any such thing. I have six years of theological training. I know the Bible better than you, as do most atheists. There's a great deal of poetry, geneaology and allegory, but it's easily discernible which is which. At the same time it's an often used dishonest tactic to claim anything embarrassingly incorrect or immoral in the Bible is metaphor, including the campaigns of extermination carried out by the israelites against the native peoples of the promised land in the books of Joshua and Numbers. Descriptions of their military routines, numbers in each unit and supply logistics are given. Yet Christians uncomfortable with God commanding a genocide have argued that it's metaphorical.

We both know what they're trying to do there.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:19:45 2011 No.4133457
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>>4133409
It was just an observation. From what bible says and what you say, your god is a huge, HUUUUUUUUGE hypocrite, and that all the christian hypocrisy makes more sense in this light.

Actually, if the christian god is the god of hypocrisy, it would also stand to reason that the followers of the god of hypocrisy would adamantly deny their, as well as their god's hypocrisy.

And with all that hypocrisy, it would be extremely stupid of me to believe anything you or any other follower of the hypocritical god says.

Thank you, this thread is good confirmation of these doubts about christianity that I've always had.

I'll go and officially resign from the church tomorrow.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:20:45 2011 No.4133459 File: 435 KB, 664x594, untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:20:45 2011 No.4133461

>>4133447
i preach Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God

"religion" is an amorphous term used by, well, everybody for different reasons

i pointed out that Christ Jesus came down from heaven to earth

and that all non-Christ based religions try to reach God from the earth, and are therefore doomed to fail

put it this way. if my salvation depends on me in any particular, i am doomed; if He does all the heavy lifting, i'm saved by His grace, through His mercy, out of the goodness of His heart

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:20:54 2011 No.4133464 File: 41 KB, 690x461, tiger.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:21:01 2011 No.4133466

>>4133456
so now you're an atheist. oh, wait, no you are not. no man at that seminary, or elsewhere, can snatch you out of Jesus' hand. you are saved, and a brother of mine, and my heart breaks for your loss of faith (but never for your loss of salvation).

lay on me the burden that seminary broke you with.

come at me, bro

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:22:01 2011 No.4133468 >>4133459 The argument is not that we should never believe what is written in books. It is that we should probably not base our entire lives around a single book.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:22:10 2011 No.4133471 >>4133457 my Lord is not a hypocrit my Lord hates hypocrits my Lord created hell for hypocrits and yet, here you are, running about as if you knew something about my Lord, and hypocrits, and where hypocrits end up ponderous

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:23:10 2011 No.4133474
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>>4132752

>does god exist?

>yes he exist I can feel it

So he must exist because he feel something? Are you sure you didn't just shit your pants?

>No i never saw or met him

So you don't believe in anything because you haven't seen it for yourself? So if your parents told you have a cousin living in another country you will call your paranets stupid nut jobs until you met the cousin in person?

>and the idea seems implausible

You would say the same about the universe if you hadn't seen it already

>you can't know

Makes sense, because we can know everything

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:23:18 2011 No.4133478 >>4133459 Who said we were just "following" that book? Most atheists are more critical of it than Christians. And we certainly don't force our families to worship that book every Sunday and memorize verses from it. Total failure.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:24:18 2011 No.4133482

>>4133464
i understand your point of self-fulfilling prophecy

many prophecies in the bible were not self fulfilling; for instance, Jesus was born in the City of David due to a tax an emporer made, and a census he ordered, hundreds of years after isaiah made the prophecy

these things are supernatural, and dismissing the supernatural by denial, well, that's what /x/ is for

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:24:26 2011 No.4133484

>I have six years of theological training. I know the Bible better than you, as do most atheists
Not the guy you're arguing with, but Jewfag here. Why would you waste 6 years studying something you think is nonsense?
>There's a great deal of poetry, geneaology and allegory, but it's easily discernible which is which
No it's not. We've been arguing over this for centuries.
>At the same time it's an often used dishonest tactic to claim anything embarrassingly incorrect or immoral in the Bible is metaphor
The Problem of Evil is a very boring, silly argument that even many atheists reject.
>including the campaigns of extermination carried out by the israelites against the native peoples of the promised land in the books of Joshua and Numbers
Those have been disproven through archaeology.
>Descriptions of their military routines, numbers in each unit and supply logistics are given
What's your point?
>Yet Christians uncomfortable with God commanding a genocide have argued that it's metaphorical
I'm a Jew, so I can't speak for them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:25:26 2011 No.4133486 >>4133478 yes, dawkins is indeed total failure, and why i would never tell anyone to follow him to hell

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:26:33 2011 No.4133492
File: 34 KB, 302x475, whowrotethebible.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4133482
>many prophecies in the bible were not self fulfilling; for instance, Jesus was born in the City of David due to a tax an emporer made, and a census he ordered, hundreds of years after isaiah made the prophecy

Except if you investigate that, the messiah was prophesied to be born in Bethlehem, but Jesus was actually born in Nazareth. The story of David migrating was added in later to account for the discrepancy.

I urge you to read this book.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:26:33 2011 No.4133495

>>4133484
well, joo, let me assure you, God keeps His covenants, including all the covenants He made with Abraham, and He is going to fight for israel against her enemies, and soon.

as a matter of fact, right now, Michael the archangel is defending Israel. Michael, and a bunch of nukes. but seriously, i'd rather have Michael

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:28:42 2011 No.4133499 >>4133486 >total failure >cult following, admiration and respect among his peers, financial gains pick one

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:28:42 2011 No.4133500 >>4133495 I don't normally debate atheists, but when I have, they invariably end up devolving into anti-Semitism.

sage Mon Dec 12 16:28:49 2011 No.4133502

>>4133486
You think hell exists? Do you believe in the Devil too? Is he a little red man who pokes people in the ass with a pitch-fork? Can God not kill Satan because Satan is equally powerful?

Your belief system is a joke. We all laugh at your belief system. You won't post anything to clarify your belief system because people will poke holes in it, and you know it.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:28:49 2011 No.4133504

>>4133492
holy crap, what a load of horseshit. Jesus was born in betheleham, fled to egypt, moved back into nazareth, visited jerusalem, and performed His works and miracles all over the Holy Land, including in Samaria.

you mock me for believing that the bible is a book, and then throw a book that doesn't even make the claim of divine inspiration, much less stand up to divine inspection, to disprove the bible

now that's fucking hypocritical

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:29:57 2011 No.4133508 The catholic church doesn't even believe in hell. And this guy thinks it exists. >babby's first theology hahahaha

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:29:57 2011 No.4133509 Why can't people let people believe in god if they want to and other people not believe if it makes them feel better Why do you people make everything so complicated? God have nothing to do with science

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:29:57 2011 No.4133510

>>4133499
what does it profit a man to gain the entire world, yet lose his own soul?

dawkins' soul is doomed; he is a reprobate, an avowed enemy of God, with no chance whatsoever of escaping his doom.

no chance, unless God Himself intervenes, as He did with Saul of Tarsis.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:30:05 2011 No.4133514 >>4133500 of course! their father is the great dragon, the sworn enemy of Israel, who would wipe the country off the map, and kill each and every joo, if God did not restrain him scratch an atheist, find an anti-semite

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:30:05 2011 No.4133516

>>4133484
>Not the guy you're arguing with, but Jewfag here. Why would you waste 6 years studying something you think is nonsense?

I didn't think it was nonsense at the time. I believed Christianity to be true until I learned what claims it actually entails.

>No it's not. We've been arguing over this for centuries.

People argue for illegitimate reasons. It is easily discernible, but people have motives to make it out as though that's not the case; For instance, when moderates lie about how Genesis was meant because science disproved it.

>The Problem of Evil is a very boring, silly argument that even many atheists reject.

I wasn't making that argument. I was using the moderate claim that the exterminations in Joshua and Numbers were "metaphorical" as an example of the phenomenon described above.

>Those have been disproven through archaeology.

I understand that. Again, you've misunderstood this as an attempted name and shame. It was just an example of how something clearly meant to be a historical record can be deliberately misrepresented as something else for illegitimate reasons. The fact that the account of the extermination was invented does not suggest it was intended to be a metaphor, as it's very precise and in detail, and does not appear to actually metaphorically convey anything.

>What's your point?

My point is, a methapor typically doesn't do that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:31:05 2011 No.4133519 >>4133510 Naw, he's not an evil guy. Just a con man who created a new religion based around himself.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:32:13 2011 No.4133521

>>4133502
>You think hell exists?
Yes
>Do you believe in the Devil too?
Yes
>Is he a little red man who pokes people in the ass with a pitch-fork?
No
>Can God not kill Satan because Satan is equally powerful?
No

>Your belief system is a joke. We all laugh at your belief system.
He who laughs last, laughs best
>You won't post anything to clarify your belief system because people will poke holes in it, and you know it.
i'm the one with the red-hot awl; i see no refutation of anything i believe in ITT

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:32:13 2011 No.4133523 >>4133519 so much straw man claims about atheists XD

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:32:22 2011 No.4133525

>>4133500
>I don't normally debate atheists, but when I have, they invariably end up devolving into anti-Semitism.

A disturbing number of stormfags are becoming atheists because of pressure not to worship a "Jew god". The core atheist movement in the US is comprised primarily of liberals and libertarians who are very much Jew friendly, in part because they comprise a significant percentage of our membership and many notable atheist intellectuals are Jewish.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:33:22 2011 No.4133527
File: 493 KB, 1600x1377, Gladius_0240_Chris_Achilleos_Penthesilea.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4133471
Don't take it wrong, I think it's cool how you're so adamantly hypocritical like your god.

But a religion like that just doesn't suit me. I think I'll turn to some goddess of wisdom and knowledge instead. Pallas Athene sounds pretty good.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:33:22 2011 No.4133529

>does not suggest it was intended to be a metaphor, as it's very precise and in detail, and does not appear to actually metaphorically convey anything
They exaggerated it for political reasons and to teach a moral lesson. All evidence suggests that the Israelites developed from a native culture and a violent conquest of Palestine didn't happen IRL.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:33:22 2011 No.4133530 >>4133508 i'd resist aligning myself with the great whore of babylon, were i you His people will come out of them, and what remains, is of the devil

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:34:29 2011 No.4133536 >>4133530 Professor Gellar? Travis? is that you? Seriously, you are a caricature. Give up the game. :P

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:35:38 2011 No.4133537 >You can only go to heaven if you believe in heaven. therefore >You can only go to hell if you believe in hell.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:36:45 2011 No.4133540

>>4133516
let me get this straight. you want God to fight against evil, but when God fights against evil, you have to quickly refer to it as a metaphor to maintain your false beliefs about God

let me tell you something about God and the caananites. the caananites were evil, pure evil, and God told His people to kill them all.

God created them. God ordered them extinct.

God created the world. God flooded the world.

when you get confused over what rights God has over His creation, you get really, really, really confused.

me, if God tells me to kill every man, woman, child, pig, chicken, and duck in a village, you will not find any of those things alive when i leave

God is not Rainbow Fucking Brite

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:36:45 2011 No.4133541

>A disturbing number of stormfags are becoming atheists because of pressure not to worship a "Jew god"
What do you think Nazis were about? They considered Christianity a derivative of Judaism and therefore unacceptable.
>The core atheist movement in the US is comprised primarily of liberals and libertarians who are very much Jew friendly
Certain kinds of Jews. Namely the Larry David left-wing self hating Jews.
>in part because they comprise a significant percentage of our membership and many notable atheist intellectuals are Jewish
As a Jew, I will take to note that yes, we do have a disproportionately high amount of atheists and socialists/communists.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:37:45 2011 No.4133545
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I think we can all agree that atheists win this round.

Theists, set some time aside to ask why you had such a difficult time defending your position. Atheists are not wizards, they can't telepathically prevent you from being able to summon better arguments, or make you answer with what you know to be a weak, dishonest rejoinder. That was all you, and you did it because you were up against a wall, and you were up against a wall because your belief system is indefensible. That is not any atheist's fault. You chose to believe those things are true.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:37:54 2011 No.4133546 >>4133519 he really didn't; men and angels alike have tried to elevate their status to godhead, and all have failed, and fallen short of the glory of God there really is nothing new under the sun

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:38:01 2011 No.4133550
File: 13 KB, 254x256, 1322494236002.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Why do atheists only attack the bible like its some anti bible cult?

Christianity is just one of many many other religions

Not all religous people are fags and not all atheists are fags, even if The amazing atheists is a huge faggot, that we can all agree on but not everyone are the same
You people are idiots

feels superior not having to pick a side and have a sheep brain like you people do

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:39:01 2011 No.4133551 >>4133525 "our membership" fuck you

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:39:10 2011 No.4133557 >>4133550 secularism and the related but not synonymous atheism has grown up in liberal democracies in the west where christianity is the dominant religion. btw, muslim don't even listen or acknowledge anything a white man says.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:40:10 2011 No.4133559 >>4133527 still waiting for one instance of what you call my Lord's hypocracy

>>	fizx !d75etXAowg Mon Dec 12 16:40:17 2011 No.4133560 >>4133500 A friend of mine doesn't like German beer, Beethoven, or Hitler. Does that mean he is discriminating against my German heritage? You shouldn't accuse others of antisemitism so quickly.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:40:17 2011 No.4133561

>>4133541
>What do you think Nazis were about? They considered Christianity a derivative of Judaism and therefore unacceptable.

Most Nazis were Christians. Pic related, flag of the Deutschen Christen, or German Christians. Hitler himself and the inner circle were pagan theosophists. It was unusually popular at the time.

>Certain kinds of Jews. Namely the Larry David left-wing self hating Jews.

How so? You resent ethnic Jews for being irreligious? How does it make them self hating?

>As a Jew, I will take to note that yes, we do have a disproportionately high amount of atheists and socialists/communists.

Not a lot of Communists in the political action groups. We've only ever had a handful try to join and they were turned away. We have bigger problems with the larger than life libertarians marching in and setting about trying to turn the local meetup group into the beginnings of their glorious libertarian revolution. Eventually most settle down and learn their role as a member, others need to be turned away, still others start spiteful similarly named meetup groups in protest.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:42:25 2011 No.4133563

>>4133550

>Why do atheists only attack the bible like its some anti bible cult?

They don't. Three of the four best selling atheist books are attacks on Islam.

>Christianity is just one of many many other religions

However, most atheists live in western countries, where they are around Christians most of the time and thus have mainly complaints about Christians. Not hard to fathom.

Atheists living in Britain complain more about Islam now for that reason, see Pat Condell.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:42:34 2011 No.4133566 File: 130 KB, 750x600, HitlerStealsSeat.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4133541 >What do you think Nazis were about? Celebrating Christmas, mostly.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:43:34 2011 No.4133567 >>4133550 >implying Western anti-theists focus on Christianity and not all Abrahamic religions... and to a lesser extent Hinduism.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:43:34 2011 No.4133568 >>4133529 bible says you're wrong, joos say you're wrong, arabs say you're wrong, and i say you're wrong you're wrong

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:44:34 2011 No.4133569 >>4133536 love the show, but really, Tom got all the acting chops in that family

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:44:41 2011 No.4133573 File: 32 KB, 400x237, deutschenchristen2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Whoops, flag pic didn't post. Here it is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:45:49 2011 No.4133575 >>4133559 Waiting? I gave you the most glaring example already. Fortunately, where I live, we can leave the church by filling an online form.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:46:49 2011 No.4133577

>>4133567

Actually India has its own atheist movement. It's really a breath of fresh air watching their videos where they go around calling out mystical gurus and challenging them to prove their powers. The gurus fail every time and have an ENDLESS supply of excuses, like the Christians in this thread. Same everywhere I guess.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:46:58 2011 No.4133581 >>4133537 nope you can only go to heaven if Jesus Himself takes you there, brings you there, translates you there, transforms you there errybody else goes to hell

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:47:05 2011 No.4133585 >>4133541 because the holocaust taught you a wrong lesson: God deserted us God did not desert you, and He is coming soon to reclaim His people. Temple and all. sacrifices and all. Divine warfare and all. the world will know that you are His people.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:47:05 2011 No.4133587 >>4133569 True. Colin isn't nearly as threatening or intimidating as earlier bad guys. although the two characters are badly written, it may be unavoidable since as I say, these kind of religious nutjobs are caricatures.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:47:58 2011 No.4133584 >>4133577 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:48:43 2011 No.4133589 >>4133581 No if you follow the true religion. You must be reading the bible wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:48:43 2011 No.4133591 >>4133545 stfu with your self-aggrandizing sentiments. you forward nothing but contempt for atheists, angsty teenagers that they are, clueless about the universe, life, and the afterlife.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:49:43 2011 No.4133596 >>4133581 That's nice, dear.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:50:43 2011 No.4133599 >>4133585 That's very nice. I can't say I'm particularly religious, but I do get slightly annoyed that quite a few atheists seem to be anti-Semitic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:51:43 2011 No.4133600 >>4133575 the slaughter of the caananites? that was your example of hypocrisy? do you understand the fundamental difference between God killing men and men killing men? do you?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:52:45 2011 No.4133605 >>4133596 no, it's horrific a lot of you are going to be in hell, wondering why some christfag didn't tell you how bad it sucked HELL SUCKS repent, and be saved

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:54:49 2011 No.4133610 File: 220 KB, 550x730, god-man-vs-human-man.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Afterlife, lulz. I wonder if we can feel anything in the "afterlife" after our nerves our gone. I'm sure God and his sidekick Jesus can make it happen.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:55:49 2011 No.4133613

>>4133599
there are serious people in jerusalem who have planned for years the rebuilding of the temple; the plans are already drawn, the implements are already fashioned, and they spent about $35M on a solid cast gold minorah that is worth well over $100M today.

these are some serious joos.

and once the idea that the temple and the dome of the rock can both exist side by side, with the gentiles owning the outer court of the temple, the building will begin.

however, this is also the time of the troubles of Jacob, which are horrific. my advice to you is to recognize Jesus as your messiah now, but failing that, believe Elijah the prophet when he speaks of Jesus in jerusalem.

there is coming a time when all joos will be religious

I shall tell you a great secret. Do not wait for the Last Judgment. It takes place every day. Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:56:52 2011 No.4133619

The only reason the afterlife is so strongly associated with pain, pleasure and judgement is because this is what we are most familiar with.

Yet so much of what there is, is not familiar to us. In probability, if there is anything beyond this, it will be nothing to do with us––nothing to do with pain, pleasure, or judgement. Or at least just likely to be anything to do with us as not.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:57:52 2011 No.4133624

>>4133610
indeed. you will personally be capable of feeling torment for an eternity, and all for something quite simple: disbelief that Jesus is the Son of God, and that He was raised from the dead.

so, stick to your guns, and find yourself in hell, or do the smart thing, and believe in the One who can, and actually wants to, save you from hell

never think you can gain heaven, nor avoid hell, on your own. you cannot.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 16:58:55 2011 No.4133631

>>4133619
i expect great and wondrous things from a Creator God who has not stopped creating; and knowing that even in my wildest imaginations, i cannot fathom what He has in store for His children, well, even if missing hell were my only motivation, and it is enough, heaven is too good to miss out on

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 17:00:55 2011 No.4133636

>>4133624
I can do anything I want, because your god is chicken-shit and terrified of me. Repent of your false worship of Jesus, the short traitor, or I will devastate your anus with my laser-beam eyes.

>Arguing with Christfags on their own terms: empty threats, patting yourself on the back, etc.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 17:00:57 2011 No.4133637
File: 449 KB, 1273x1600, Gladius_0225_Chris_Achilleos_Lynx_Woman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4133600
No, that's not it, I meant the creation and the age, but there's also a whole lot more of "do like I say, not how I do" and the whole thing with contradicting laws and rules.

Even if you follow the rules set in the bible to the letter, you're still going to hell because you broke other rules.

So your religion is set up so that no matter what you do, you still burn. But not only that, but you will also think that it was your own fault.

And then you praise all these jacked rules and are happy about it.

Pallas Athene only asks for a few sacrifices and a tasteful temple instead of putting up a perverse system like that.

I shall tell you a great secret. Do not wait for the Last Judgment. It takes place every day. Anonymous Mon Dec 12 17:02:57 2011 No.4133640

>>4133631
But it's also not binary. There's more than two variables positions in the unknown of god. There's a whole host of variables and you could well be fucking up your prospects with any one in particular.

The trick is not to concede to any position. Just live. And then die.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 17:03:01 2011 No.4133648

>>4133636
you can indeed do anything you want; God gave you free will, and faith, and a conscience

what you cannot do is escape the price for doing anything you want, and that price is death, and judgment, and suffering, forever

good luck with your rebellion against an omnipotent deity!

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 17:07:07 2011 No.4133665

>>4133637
>No, that's not it, I meant the creation and the age, but there's also a whole lot more of "do like I say, not how I do" and the whole thing with contradicting laws and rules.
God says creation took Him six days, and He rested on the seventh. "science" says otherwise. wonder who's right....

>Even if you follow the rules set in the bible to the letter, you're still going to hell because you broke other rules.
YES!!! this is a concept that so few people understand: the Law never made one single person righteous--all the Law does is show you how perfect you have to be to be worthy of heaven, and how you completely and utterly fail at doing so. Only Jesus Himself lived a perfect life; all of the rest of us have sinned and fallen short.

The Law was not given to men to be followed; it was given to men to show men how high God's standards are, and that the Law cannot be perfectly followed.

Once you see the need for salvation, that you have fallen short, you cast about for a real savior, and there is Jesus, smiling, waiting for you.

>So your religion is set up so that no matter what you do, you still burn. But not only that, but you will also think that it was your own fault.

What you do with your own free will IS your own fault; you reap what you sow. the good news is, He has provided a pardon, a complete pardon, and all of your shortcomings are FORGOTTEN and forgiven.

>And then you praise all these jacked rules and are happy about it.
nope

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 17:09:10 2011 No.4133677

>>4133640
what a horrible plan, especially when one plan of supernatural origin states that you must pick a side

even in the desert, with Moses and the joos, they had to pick sides, and the people standing against Moses were swallowed up and killed by the earth

it's better to pick a side at random than to die not having picked a side at all

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 17:12:13 2011 No.4133687 File: 115 KB, 499x499, 129401.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4133648 More empty threats. Yawn.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 17:14:16 2011 No.4133697

>>4133687
i'm sorry you see them as empty threats

they are really the state of reality, when you consider that God and sin cannot coexist

if you choose life without God, and an afterlife without God, you cannot then be surprised that your existence sucks; it is not what you were made for. you were made to fellowship with Him, not to live a lame life, die, and burn.

if that is all there were, He would not have spared Noah and his family

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 17:30:40 2011 No.4133788
File: 108 KB, 1024x712, abr_royo_subversive_beauty_ritual_ii.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>4133665
That's what I meant. You say your god made the universe in such a way as to actively LIE to us and then blames us for believing our own eyes rather than words put down by goatherders two to five thousand years ago, which have then been edited, mis-translated, mis-copied, added to, subtracted from and generally obfuscated.

Now, which do I believe, a text about a lying god that has been mishandled, or my own eyes.

I think I'll go with my own eyes, thank you very much.

Your god of lies has no room in someone who loves the truth like I do.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 17:42:58 2011 No.4133834

>>4133788
no, He made the universe for Adam and Eve

who fell from grace, caused us to be cursed, the earth to be cursed, and the entire universe to be cursed.

by their disobedience, they caused sin to enter into creation, and cause all the damage you now decry.

that was on Adam and Eve. they took the hit; they were exiled; they were cursed; and in time, their seed grew to redeem mankind.

don't sit on a broken earth and bitch about it being broken to the extent that you miss out on a new heaven and a new earth, and spend an eternity with God's enemies

that's just plain stupid

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 17:43:58 2011 No.4133840 >>4133788 on second thought, so be it

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 12 17:49:10 2011 No.4133876 File: 192 KB, 1024x768, 1228116235.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4133840 Good, I'm tired of listening to your lies anyway.

Anonymous Mon Dec 12 17:51:10 2011 No.4133883

>>4133834

"He made the universe for TWO APES on a SINGLE PLANET in a SOLAR SYSTEM on the outskirts of a GALAXY in a CLUSTER OF GALAXIES in a SUPERCLUSTER OF GALAXIES that's part of *insert any number of larger scale structures* that's part of a UNIVERSE based on the tale of a single human being in a single middle eastern tribe without the societal ability to discern knowledge about this immensity and who organized under a historical mode of production in which the elites of that society INTERNALIZED THAT MODE OF PRODUCTION (of masters commanding their slaves!) into their MODELS OF THE ENTIRE SET OF PROPOSITIONAL REALITY so that their rule could be glorified and justified by their own good consciousness, their own megalomania for a simple and easy explanation to the SET OF ALL EXTERNAL PROPOSITIONS, and any number of psychological and mental deficiencies."

Yep I guess it's time to throw out my brain and start believing in "G-D".

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 13 01:07:28 2011 No.4135369 bump

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