/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.4043746]

People say, eugnenics won't work because random mutation will assure that undesirable traits will return. But if we can breed domestic dogs for desirable traits, why can't we do the same for humans? If you sent a group of MENSA members to an island to populate it, would their children and children's children not likely have a higher that average IQ, for the most part? Could the same be done to reduce the number of people with bad vision, etc.

Granted biology and genetics are not my forte.

[Anonymous No.4043750]

>biology

[Anonymous No.4043758]

People against eugenics (for the reason that it wouldn't work) watch too much TV. Or studied film science.

[Anonymous No.4043763]

Because you can own a dog, you can't own a human. Everything should make sense now.

[Anonymous No.4043773]

>>4043763

That didn't really answer my question, I'm not interested in ethics, just if its possible.

[Anonymous No.4043780]

>>4043746
Mensa people aren't necessarily smart, they're just good at IQ tests.

That said, yes. If you selectively breed smart people, the population's smartness factor would increase slowly. This is true for any trait which isn't purely environmental.

[Anonymous No.4043781]

Because with dogs you aim for very general characteristics that are distinctive for a specific breed. Most poodles look the same to you. Do most white people look the same to you? No. And that's because you have a way more complex brain scheme for scanning human faces and bodies, and especially the ones of your own race. And said scheme is simply too detailed for eugenics because of said random mutation.

[Anonymous No.4043779]

>>4043746
>Eugenics
>At the dawn of mechanical augmentations
Hi gramp'.

[Anonymous No.4043794]

>>4043773
Well you should be a little more specific next time because your own ethics (perhaps psychology) or other's can be a delimiting factor in some way. Other than that, of course it's possible retard. You should start collecting as much semen as possible right now!

[Anonymous No.4043804]

>>a group of MENSA members to an island to populate it
After a few decades you will have people that can do IQ tests in half the time of their predecesors and get the highest score...
That sure is something useful...we just have to find out how following patterns can be applied to science

[Anonymous No.4043806]

>>4043781
OP was talking about intelligence and a general movement towards increased intelligence through selective breeding, not very specific traits like longer noses. Of course there will always be variation in physical characteristics if we are not trying to isolate them, but OP only made mention of intelligence.

[Anonymous No.4043808]

Why don't we have a Mars colony?
Why don't we have a Utopian society?
Why don't we just kill all the stupid people?
Because the world doesn't revolve around your autistic whims.

[Anonymous No.4043811]

look up leopards

[Anonymous No.4043813]

>>4043746
magnificent specimen, sauce?

[Anonymous No.4043816]

>>4043806
Intelligence is just as variable as physical characteristics. There are tons of reports about working class single parent households with superintelligent kids, and likewise there are many, many people that are intelligent and have average minded children. Of course generations are bound to become a bit more intelligent on average if you only let the intelligent breed with another, but there's no guarantee for single cases, only the mean.

[Anonymous No.4043819]

>>4043813
seriously, I think I might be inloved

[Anonymous No.4043820]

>>4043808
For now.

[Anonymous No.4043828]

>>4043746
You obviously never owned a dog of any particular race. All "old" races are terribly flawed at genetic level because of inbreeding used to get all of those "desirable" traits. Each one of them has at least one major flaw (like joint failure, cancer (of many kinds etc.)) that has a very high risk of occurring in each dog (and it grows with time). There's actually some talk about changing this by reinforcing their DNA with some "random" outside factor (was done with a few races of cats) since continuing like this is starting to look more and more like animal cruelty.

tl;dr NO

[Anonymous No.4043834]

>>4043816
In short, our understanding of intelligence and how to measure it are flawed, short-sighted or limited. This makes Mensa members and IQ obsessives even more pitiable.

[Anonymous No.4043835]

>>4043779
>implying augmentations will be offered to the lazy degenerate scum
>implying they will not continue breed with themselves under US vs THEM mentality

[Anonymous No.4043836]

there's no such as intelligence, just pretentiousness

[Anonymous No.4043837]

>>4043746
I don't know if you're aware of this, but most pure-breed dogs are prone to a LOT of genetic defects.
My sister had a Pomeranian before, and it was born with only one testicle. I looked it up one time, and apparently that's a common defect among Pomeranians. Other breeds have their own kinds of defects as well that are common to them.

[Anonymous No.4043841]

>>4043834
>This makes Mensa members and IQ obsessives even more pitiable.
I thought this to be a given fact since the dawn of time anyway.

[Anonymous No.4043848]

>>4043837
>breed
>not calling it subspecies

20th century is over guys HELLO

[Anonymous No.4043855]

>>4043836
Say that to the highschoolers who fear maths most because they can't solve simple vector calculations.

[Anonymous No.4043857]

>>4043848
>blacks
>not calling it subhumans

20th century is over guys HELLO

[Anonymous No.4043882]

>>4043837

OP here: yes I realize that purebreds are prone to genetic defects and I knew that would be mentioned. However, purebred dogs are bred for a very specifics set of phenotypes. I am just talking about very general characteristics like intelligence. Would that likewise lead to these defects if were not looking for a laundry list of characteristics.

[Anonymous No.4043902]

>If you sent a group of MENSA members to an island to populate it
I'd nuke the shit out of that phoney island

[Anonymous No.4043910]

>>4043902
Someone is jelly. U mad, dumbfag?

[Anonymous No.4043914]

Op I used to think like you, only my idea was give crack heads the option $200 a month not to breed. You can't make people do what you want.

[Anonymous No.4043921]

>If you sent a group of MENSA members to an island to populate it

it would end in some kind of weird, Lord-of-the-Flies type tribal war over which Linux distro is better or who gets to use the iPod ... or a blunder in a chess match.

[Anonymous No.4043927]

The problem is that there is more stupid people than smart people and stupid people are also more likely to have children(I have no data to back this up, its just obvious). In order to quickly increase the average intelligence of humans, there would have to be living conditions that prevented stupid people from surviving or breeding.

[Anonymous No.4043944]

tl dr whole thread.
to answer op we've already done that with slaves that came to the states. why do you think most basketball players are black? why do you think they're stronger, taller, faster?

also genetics only counts for about 10% of how your body turns out. even if you put all mensa members together and made them fornicate there's still the brain development period you'll have to direct for their offspring. the brain stops growing at age 25.

[Anonymous No.4043948]

>>4043746

No, because then you'll just have a bunch of pretentious douche bags arguing about shit on an island, until they all get killed.

[Anonymous No.4043950]

>>4043927
>...there is more stupid people than..

I think we found one of them.

[Anonymous No.4043956]

>>4043910
the concentration of retard is high is this thread

[GL !Bgpe2HycPk No.4043966]

>>4043956
Let's make it higher.

[Anonymous No.4043990]

Eugenics obviously doesn't work. People SELECT their mates all the fucking time, and no superior Human has ever been produced. Humans with superior ABILITIES do arise, but they come out of the population RANDOMLY, not just from the North European Whites.

The reason for that is obvious: Our unique BRAINS are the factor that eugenics can't account for. It's a vastly complicated organ that greatly exceeds selection criteria.

[Anonymous No.4044021]

>>4043966
your posts sure are helping on this purpose.

[Anonymous No.4044031]

>>4043990
But whites are smarter than blacks.

[Anonymous No.4044040]

If we kill all the stupid people, who will pick up the trash?

[Anonymous No.4044065]

>>4044040
Robots built by the smart people.

[Anonymous No.4044079]

>>4044031
babbys first troll

[Anonymous No.4044082]

>>4044065
Who is going to work on the assembly line? Who will drive the trucks to deliver them cross-country? Who will mine the iron ore needed for the manufacturing? Who will hose them down when they get covered in garbage?

[Anonymous No.4044090]

OP Wait before we go further.Who is the girl in your pictures?Is that you?

[Anonymous No.4044089]

>>4044082
The Deltas and Epsilons

[Anonymous No.4044094]

>>4044031
> But whites are smarter than blacks.

I didn't deny the existence of deprecated populations, like Negroes and Native Americans, who will never amount to anything.

[Anonymous No.4044095]

oO sterilize the mutations?

[Anonymous No.4044097]

>>4044090
please, OP, she's BEAUTIFUL

[Anonymous No.4044101]

>>4043882
There's less of a chance of it happening but it's still very possible. Every characteristic has to be properly accounted for to prevent doubling up of potentially bad genes.
Take a look at Silicon Valley. The rate of autism there is much higher than anywhere in the country.

I'd say if you have a large enough group to perform eugenics, do genetic engineering instead. Perform tests, isolate genes, and then use them for whatever you want- fixing genetic disorders, making superhumans, exterminating the jews, whatever.

[Anonymous No.4044102]

>>4043746
protip: eugenics work, retards are in denial

[Anonymous No.4044105]

>>4044097
I'm not OP but I think her name is Anaïs Tépinier. Here is her facebook account : http://www.facebook.com/anais.tepinier?sk=photos

[Anonymous No.4044106]

>>4044102
>[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.4044107]

We should have eugenics exactly because individuals are about to become immensely powerful and everything needs to not turn into a clusterfuck.

[Anonymous No.4044114]

>>4043837
This.

There are so many factors going on it's impossible to predict with any sort of certainty the peripheral effects of selectively breeding for one trait.
With dogs, people don't necessarily care if a dog might be more prone to displasia or whatever, but with people you wouldn't be able to get away with stuff like that.
Not to mention how gross it is ethically, that it wouldn't be accepted by a lot of people on a principle basis, &c. besides the practical problems.
But then again that's just selective breeding. If you throw molecular biological methods, molecular gene selection &c. into it, it might be plausible in a few decades. It would be, if a lot of people weren't totally repulsed by the idea.

[Anonymous No.4044116]

>>4043746
We have a much better idea of what contributes to hair colour in dog than what cumulates in good intelligence in humans.

Also, for a lot of things we've tried to breed into dogs, it has actually worsened their health conditions. Every dog breed has congenital, or hereditary defects associated with respiration, bone structure etc. The reason we allow these to persist in animals is because of the main distinction between animals and humans: you can put an animal out of its misery much more readily than you can with a human.

The way we currently artificially alter genetics in human offspring is sufficient. I have very little problems with designer babies. Of course as always this is subject to change. Only a fool would cease engagement with a subject in the belief that they'd discovered the ultimate right.

[Anonymous No.4044117]

We don't even have a clear definition on what intelligence is yet. Why the fuck would you want to do artificial selection towards an incredibly complex multi genetic and highly environmental dependant trait, that we don't really know what it is? That's insane! This thread is fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.4044119]

>>4044114
Why do you need to predict when you can just find out

[Anonymous No.4044121]

>>4044117
> doesn't know about g factor

[Anonymous No.4044124]

>>4044105
what a coincidence, she has the same profile picture =_=

[Anonymous No.4044128]

>>4044117

How about bad vision or baldness?

[Anonymous No.4044131]

>>4044124
>makes facebook
>puts the pic as profile
>gets information
>??????????
>profit

[Anonymous No.4044133]

>>4044124
I know I think its just a generic picture people use to get attention,like OP has done.Most people would not have posted on this if it were not for the picture i think.Here is a site which shows that girl(not OP) in many different looks :) http://www.jaffamood.com/transformation-in-everyday/

[Anonymous No.4044135]

>>4044131
>>4044124
I used reverse Image search and it lists all the places that picture is on the internet

[paacal !n5Z3VuZapw No.4044136]

Until we understand every gene, selective breeding could be detrimental. Somewhere out there could be 2 handicapped people that could lead to a superman baby.

By selectively breeding against their handicap we could be losing some awesome things from our genepool.

Ironically by the time we know what all the genes do, we will have the technology to manipulate thrm making eugenics worthless.

[Anonymous No.4044139]

>>4044135
you even made a linkedIn page
>0 connections
yeah, cuz i keep it for myself
>fuck you

[Anonymous No.4044144]

>>4044136
>we will have the technology to manipulate
We are extremely close to having that technology, all we need is slightly better gene targeting

[Anonymous No.4044153]

she looks boyish. and yet i am still attracted.

[Anonymous No.4044163]

>>4044139
I did not make anything these pictures are popular,there are in many websites on the net.She takes a picture of herself everyday for 3+ years. here is her website.OP is probably a regular 4 chan user not this hot girl thats all I'm saying. This is a link to her site: http://clickflashwhirr.me/ .I have provided three website links now,I hope that enough

[sage No.4044176]

PSEUDOSCIENCE

GO TO /x/?

[Anonymous No.4044184]

>>4043746
you do realize that all breeds start with one male, right?

eugenics with thousands of people involved, both male and female has an exponentially greater biodiversity than traditional breeding.

also, you don't know shit about mutations.

fuck off to the aspies who say we need to know everything.

it's called empiricism and the uncertainty principal, we have a basic model that is accurate up to a certain point, use it faggots.

[Anonymous No.4044196]

>>4044184
What? Thousands is kind low for safe levels biodiversity. There are going to be a lot of dead/deformed children in this project until the genetic disorders die out.

[Anonymous No.4044203]

>>4044196
i don't think you understand how eugenics works.

the goal is to start out with as pristine as a pool as you can, then eliminate the disorders while mixing with other groups to bring about more traits.

you are fucking stupid if you truly believe a thousand people is low.

this isn't hollywood. this is real life.

your entire lineage does not span over a thousand people who are not near identical.

[Anonymous No.4044211]

>If you sent a group of MENSA members to an island

If you could include the Ayn Randers the world would be an oh so much more pleasant place

[Anonymous No.4044212]

>>4044211
>Ayn Rand
>not god tier

[Anonymous No.4044214]

>>4044196
Don't you know that all the people in the world today descend from a group of about ten thousand???

[Anonymous No.4044225]

>>4044214
The weak and deformed of that group died off, the ones without problems lived. It didn't matter much. Modern society doesn't let babies or mentally incapable people die. Having low biodiversity it humans means lots of retard deadweight unless you plan on killing them.

[Anonymous No.4044233]

Short answer, yes. IQ is highly heritable. Regression to the mean will occur, but if high IQ people continue to breed exclusively with other high IQ people, the mean to which IQ in the offspring regresses will gradually increase.

Info on genetics and IQ:
== Genetic Basis for Human Intelligence Confirmed ==
Genome-wide association studies establish that human intelligence is highly heritable and polygenic
Molecular Psychiatry; 9 August 2011; doi:10.1038/mp.2011.85

"Our results unequivocally confirm that a substantial proportion of individual differences in human intelligence is due to genetic variation, and are consistent with many genes of small effects underlying the additive genetic influences on intelligence."

"We estimate that 40% of the variation in crystallized-type intelligence and 51% of the variation in fluid-type intelligence between individuals is accounted for by linkage disequilibrium between genotyped common SNP markers and unknown causal variants."

www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp201185a.html

== IQ Reflects Anatomical Brain Differences ==
Genetics of Brain Structure and Intelligence
Annu. Rev. Neuroscience; 2005. 28:1–23; doi: 10.1146/annurev.neuro.28.061604.135655

"Genetic influences on brain morphology and IQ are well studied. A variety of sophisticated brain-mapping approaches relating genetic influences on brain structure and intelligence establishes a regional distribution for this relationship that is consistent with behavioral studies. We highlight those studies that illustrate the complex cortical patterns associated with measures of cognitive ability. A measure of cognitive ability, known as g, has been shown highly heritable across many studies. We argue that these genetic links are partly mediated by brain structure that is likewise under strong genetic control."

loni.ucla.edu/~thompson/PDF/TT_ARN05.pdf

[GL !Bgpe2HycPk No.4044241]

>>4044214
Don't you know that all the people in the world today descended from Adam and Eve???

[Anonymous No.4044253]

>>4044225
implying that is a valid argument when you've already decided to use eugenics

[Anonymous No.4044271]

I am visiting many boards and forum,i read history,i even watch TV.All the shit about superhumans,smart and stupid,gifted and peasant and other shit is always from some northern europeans. There are alot book about anthropology,genetics,history and whatever.All of them are neutral and observative.But every book I read from northern european is filled with propaganda,x being better than y, superiority.
What is this?Unsecure?I think you are the cancer,pulling the world down.

[Anonymous No.4044278]

>>4044253
Well there are more passive forms of eugenics. Just checking to see how you're doing it

[Anonymous No.4044290]

IQ in humans is largely determined by environment, not genetics. Ergo your scheme is stupid (the opposite of smart, ergo you were not provided an ideal environment for brain development).

Basically, everyone in this thread is a faggot except for me.

[Anonymous No.4044300]

>Could the same be done to reduce the number of people with bad vision

There was a study during World War 2 confirming that the trait of being myopic are the majority of the time caused by the environment and not genetics (close reading and television)

[Anonymous No.4044304]

How civilized are you, /sci/? Keep trying until you don't fail.

God mode: Write down a set of rationals without a supremum.
Hard mode: Write down the Bernoulli equation.
Easy mode: Write down an equation for photosynthesis.

[Anonymous No.4044355]

>>4043746
Pure-bred Rottweiler's are extremely susceptible to certain forms of cancer, King Charles Spaniels have too small of heads to actually keep their brain in, so can bleed out. Daschunds and corkis have back problems.

Not to mention spaniels have a so called 'rage' syndrome which is considered to be genetic, since it's specific to that strain of dog.

What I'm saying is OP, pure breeding creates an even worse species with more defects. Think through your dog analogy a bit more and then come back.

[Anonymous No.4044596]

Eugenics kills the genetic variability of any population, and this necessarily weakens it.

That's why pure breed cats and dogs have a lot of defects and diseases and die early. Stray cats and dogs are much more resistant as they have a lot more genetic variability.

Also, there are many different kinds of intelligence, measuring a person's intellectual worth on IQ alone is retarded. IQ tests mostly measure the ability to recognize patterns.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences

And genetics don't have determinant influence on how intelligent you are or which intelligences you have developed. External influences and the process of myelinization do.

[Anonymous No.4044613]

What about eugenics for specific inheritable diseases such as sickle cell and other stuff like that?

[Gilgamesh !!JNVkU2/omZB No.4044617]

We'll be well-versed in genetic engineering many, many generations before any eugenics-mediated changes actually stabilize in the population. It's a pointless initiative.

[Anonymous No.4044683]

>>4044613

Just keep in mind that many genetic mutations with negative effects (e.g. sickle cell) also have positive effects (e.g. resistance to malaria). So be prepared for unintended consequences when you start trying to breed out common mutations.