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/sci/ - Science & Math

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4023335 No.4023335 [Reply] [Original]

>> No.4023338

Relevancy to science: 0%

2/10 though for making me respond

>> No.4023347

sage

>> No.4023349

>>4023335
religion ia supposed to be a paragon of moral enlightenment, whether you claim morality comes from it or is simply enhanced and manifested through it.

but wha is it's purpose if it's held to no higher standard than any other way of living?

>> No.4023353

you can't claim to be different and valued for your moral authority and insight, just to fall back on the 'well everyone else was doing it' response when someone questions your failings

>> No.4023357

>>4023353
>>4023349
Was it not Christians who ultimately did away with slavery in the civilized world?

>> No.4023361

>>4023357
No. The slaves convinced us that we should.

>> No.4023365

>>4023361
Which slaves are we referring to?

>> No.4023369

>>4023357
There was a big war about it. Almost everyone on both sides were Christian. The side that won did so by having better soldiers, equipment, and strategies, not by being more Christian than the other.

>> No.4023371
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4023371

>> No.4023372

>>4023361

?????

Are you trolling?

Stupid?

>> No.4023374

Athiesm doesn't mean you arent christian or jewish, just means you don't believe any god exists...those are just 2 of the more well known religions they don't follow...

>> No.4023376

>>4023372
there was instiutional lead on abolition

>> No.4023378

>>4023376
The abolitionist movement; almost all those guys were huge Bible thumpers.

>> No.4023381

I can prove there's no God. If he existed, he'd stop people from making these threads. Since he doesn't...

>> No.4023384

>>4023378
so were the opposition.. abolition wasnt due to the defining characterists of christians. it was a wider recognitin that slavery is not conducive to an effective society.

>> No.4023385

To claim that Christianity supports slavery is to completely misunderstand the bible. This happens to casual readers of the bible who don't bother exploring the history of the culture that wrote it.

To start.

Slavery in the old testament was more akin to indentured servitude and was primarily used as a means for people to pay back debts.

This is not modern slavery.

There were also slaves which could be purchased from nations which surrounded the Israelites. These men and women were more like the modern concept of a slave, bought and sold property. Here you must remember 2 things. The Israelites were not the ones who put those people into slavery and God commanded all slaves to be freed at the end of a 7 year cycle.Even those slaves bought from foreign nations were to be freed. That's a hell of a lot better deal than they would have gotten had the Israelites not purchased them. Similarly during the era just prior to the American civil war one of the proposed ways to take care of the slave problem with the South was to purchase the slaves from their owners and set them free. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT GOD HAD PROPOSED 3000 YEARS PRIOR only nobody notices because herp derp the Israelites were evil evil slaveholders.

>> No.4023387

>>4023384
They tried coming up with some arguments to justify slavery, but it was weak stuff. Those guys had nothing except "pplz in the Bible kept slaves", which was the same excuse Mormons used to practice polygamy.

>> No.4023388

cont.

When faced with a runaway slave who requested baptism by Peter, Peter wrote him and said, NO and told him to go back to his master. Why? It wasn't a pro slavery, it was pro LAW. The Jews were already searching for any method they could lay their hands on to persecute the Christians. Sicking the Romans on them for illegally freeing slaves would have ended God's church in the early days very quick.

God's not a moron. He recognizes that while he wants his people to hold the moral high ground there are some times when doing so jeopardizes his people. People are free to make their own choices, encouraging them to kill your people is not a good thing, this is the same reason he commanded Abraham to say his wife was his sister, to preserve Abraham against death by a jerk that would have exercised his free agency and murdered him.

Sometimes God will change the rules to suit the needs of his people. To illustrate what this is like:

Imagine you're driving down a stretch of road and you come up to a stop sign. You must stop right? But wait, there's a policeman there waving you through. Still stop yes? Because YOU CANNOT CHANGE THE LAW. Well, no, you ignore the stop sign, obey the policeman and therefore obey the law.

Does that mean we are allowed to change the law to suit ourselves? Are you God? No, then no.

>> No.4023389

>>4023385
Also Middle Eastern societies kept way fewer slaves than the Greeks and others did. One census from the 3rd century BC estimated that half the population of Athens were slaves.

>> No.4023394

Science and Math

>> No.4023398

red herring. no atheist claims that people kept slaves because of Christianity, but in spite of it.

The argument that christians make is that religion is necessary to be good.
slavery is bad. so Christianity did not prevent bad things.
therefore the argument that Christianity is the foundation for all morality is bollocks.

so what is religion useful for? morality? no. Finding stuff out about reality? no. social cohesion? no.

religion is useless.

>> No.4023399

>>4023387
so? it doesnt prove abolition is something unique to christians .

nonetheless, theres far too many occasions where the dgomatism of religion makes it slow to respond on moral issues

>> No.4023402

>>4023384
>that slavery is not conducive to an effective society.
Tell that to the Egyptians.

>> No.4023409

>>4023398
But it was ultimately Christians who led the movement to abolishing slavery.

>> No.4023412

>>4023402
Implying the pyraminds were built by slaves.

>> No.4023415

>>4023409
that is not say the adoption of any particular movement leads to better a morality. it just doesn't follow

>> No.4023417
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4023417

christians have only been around since 30-300 A.D. anyway you simpletons.
p.s. didnt read this shit thread

>> No.4023419

>>4023409
You make it sound like Christians fought Athiests, Muslims and Hindus who wanted to keep slavery going. Abolition was not a religious issue.

>> No.4023420

>>4023412
where did i imply that?

>> No.4023422

>>4023415
But there were no other belief systems that did very much to free slaves. Muslims are still enslaving people today.

The very earliest followers of Christianity in Rome were slaves and other lower-class people, one reason why the authorities opposed it.

Of course, by the time of Constantine, there were upper-class Christians, so the religion now carried a lot more social prestige than before.

>> No.4023426

>>4023417

The "dark ages" (which weren't that dark) were caused by the fall of the roman empire and a boatload of Huns sacking most of europe.

>> No.4023428

>>4023417
not that i'm supporting christians or this argument in this thread.
but posting that graph makes you look really stupid and demonstrates you don't know shit about history.

>> No.4023430

>christians: Our slaving people wasn't evil, after all, other people did it too. Also, other people abused children too.

>> No.4023434

>>4023422
true in my opinion muslims are worse than christians. but there is no cause and effectg relationship between being a christian and necessarily advocating abolition. as we can see there are arguments within single religions for both sides of any issue.

there was a correlation in that the people who intially opposed slavery wer epredominantly christian. yes. and the people who opposed it subsequently while not being christian necessarily came from tha lineage.

>> No.4023448

>>4023430
>implying anyone here defended slaves or child abuse

>> No.4023456

>>4023434
Correlation or not, it follows that Muslims or atheists or Hindus didn't end slavery, but Christians did.