Evolution proven wrong http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wXVUh-9OyM

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Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:31:30 2011 No.3956340 [Reply] [Original]

Evolution proven wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wXVUh-9OyM

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:32:30 2011 No.3956347 dont u mean proved?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:36:30 2011 No.3956354 That video is partially right. Macroevolution is in fact an unobservable and untestable theory, better referred to as geuss. Microevolution on the other hand has of course been observed and proven.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:38:30 2011 No.3956361 File: 14 KB, 199x199, 1317176801131.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >implying we have only 5 senses

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:39:30 2011 No.3956366 >>3956361 faggotry is NOT a 6th sense

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:41:30 2011 No.3956373

>>3956354
There are evidences for marcoevolution.

A famous observation was with butterflies near a factory. Due to pollution, the trees near the manufacture became slowly black (they were white before). This caused white butterflies who used to hide from birds by camouflaging themselves on trees to became near extinct while the black butterflies population grew bigger.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:42:30 2011 No.3956377 >>3956373 Your example is microevolution, not macroevolution. It has not been observed, how a monkey evolved into a human.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:42:30 2011 No.3956379 >>3956354 Fossil Record? Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb6Z6NVmLt8

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:42:30 2011 No.3956381 >>3956377 And no, that's macroevolution.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:44:30 2011 No.3956389 >>3956377 that happened through microevolution, asshole

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:45:30 2011 No.3956392 >>3956379 The fossil record is a collection of fossils, nothing more. Arranging them in a random order and claiming that is how they evolved, is a guess, an arbitrary interpretation of the given data.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:46:30 2011 No.3956397 >>3956381 No, they are still butterflies. >>3956389 Idiot. That's what I said.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:47:30 2011 No.3956401 What is this I don't even

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:47:30 2011 No.3956403

>You must add genetic code to get a new organism

Thats just not true, you simply have to change it.

For example, people born with certain genetic disorders, which are passed on to their children.

Also, haven't we observed species of single-celled organisms that can adapt to their environment, and when they reproduce, the offspring are significantly different? That one I'm not sure about, but I though I heard that a couple times.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:49:30 2011 No.3956413

>>3956377
You can take a step to the south, but that's just microwalking. You can even go to another city, but that's still just microwalking. It's an unobservable and untestable hypothesis that macrowalking could take you to another state just by continuing to microwalk. You can't travel to Texas from Oklahoma. There's a natural boundary at the state border which stops you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:49:30 2011 No.3956417 >hurpdrup micro macro can't observe Fucking children, you're as bad as /g/. http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html

>>	DaddyNigger Wed Oct 26 14:49:30 2011 No.3956420 >>3956340 This faggot is clearly confusing Abiogenesis with Evolution. No surprise that he disabled the comments.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:51:30 2011 No.3956424 >>3956403 Yes Giraffes can stretch their necks enough that their offspring have longer necks, that's how they have longer necks.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:51:30 2011 No.3956426 >>3956413 Of course microevolution can hypothetically become macroevolution. But there is no evidence that this has happened. The observable results of "macroevolution" can be caused by anything.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:52:30 2011 No.3956428 >>3956340 'no known process by which genetic information can be added'....... retroviruses.. NOW GET THE HELL OUT.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:52:30 2011 No.3956429

>>3956413
God created all the states in their current form six thousand seconds ago. No new states have ever been annexed or had their borders changed. History is a lie. Historians just put events in random order and then draw their premade conclusions from it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:53:30 2011 No.3956434 >>3956429 you are correct.. except it was the day before yesterday. I has vidya.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:54:30 2011 No.3956442 >mfw no real evidence for macroevolution but it's the only thing that makes sense (how else would more complex organisms have come around) so fuck off everyone else.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:56:30 2011 No.3956447 >>3956442 >the only thing that makes sense Do you even know what that means? God, ancient aliens and ghost also 'make sense'. We wouldn't have any progress, if science just chose the explanation that made sense.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:56:30 2011 No.3956449
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>There is no known observable process by which genetic information can be added to the genetic code of an organism.

And that's complete bullshit. This can happen in many types natural events, such as duplication/deletion of DNA fragments from a genome and corresponding mutations in said added code (which does produce random new information), or the insertion of genes by retroviruses sometimes across species and always changing genetic code.

Also, to be technical, science never proves anything. It does create reasonable hypotheses to account for observations of the environment, which are in turn supported by experimental evidence. But nothing is ever proven. If a source claims that something is "a proven scientific fact", especially for the sake of argument, it is guaranteed that the source has no actual knowledge of the scientific process, and is only expressing opinions.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 14:58:30 2011 No.3956453

>>3956447
God obviously is one example although you would have to define at what stage of evolution God created every creature...which makes less sense than evolved species coming from a single ancestor , but how the fuck would ghosts and aliens make sense (not to mention something would have to have made the aliens)

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:00:30 2011 No.3956457 >>3956453 I didn't mean aliens as a source of evolution or creation. I meant they make sense in other context, like presented by the tv show Ancient Aliens.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:03:30 2011 No.3956473 >Comments and ratings disabled. Someone's argument can't stand up to scrutiny.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:03:30 2011 No.3956477 >>3956426 Right, this is the part where I ask you to define macroevolution. Just to make sure you know it.

Smith Wed Oct 26 15:05:30 2011 No.3956487

Ok... i am a biologist.. the video is right i 1 thing: u can not add genetic info to the dna.. but u can modify it... modification is because the repeated and life necessary adaptations u do everyday. If you walk bare feet u will get horn skin.. this means ur body changes partially.. this Info is saved in your (DNA) as you give your genetic Info to ur childs small errors are made: u give the info of the horn skin to ur son.. and so on and so on... someday a far generation will hav mor hrned skin that other persons.
Darwing argumentation (and mine as well):
1. If all living beeing of a population would successfully reproduce the population would increase very fast
2. most of the population are stable in their number
3. there is not enough food for EVERYBODY of the population!! the space is limited and the temperature is not stable during the year (except in the Ecuador)
4.The individuals of a population are NEVER EXACTLY THE SAME!!!!! there are NO 2 OF THE SAME KIND !!! EVERYBODY IS DIFFERENT!!!
5. Those differences are given to future generation based on reprodiction.
SO: INFORMATION ON HOW TO Survive is given to other generations. only the strongest survive. they give their Genetic codes away to their children (the differences are due to small mistakes in copying the code) The old not necessary thing are "thrown away" the better and improved stay.. so u give ur improved DNA to ur children ( Improved due to replacement and adaption (not addition of chromosomes or any other bullshit said o the video)
They are mixing Giving away chromosomes and improving Dna(and giving that away)
So.. if u really belive a god created this world then u are a real redneck stupid piece of shit... dont be silly.. u think everything in the bible is right?? u really think there is a man watching everybodys move the whole time?? u really think moses SPLITTED the ocean?? such bullcrap?? people like you Creation freak belivers should be locked away!!!! u insult the humanity!!

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:06:30 2011 No.3956489

>>3956426
Yes.

Watch the video on ring species.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb6Z6NVmLt8

This is an example of macroevolution. But if you sitll want to ignore physical evidence to succor your confirmation bias, by all means buy a magnum and blow your fucking head off.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:06:30 2011 No.3956490 >>3956477 >macroevolution the part of evolution i don't like

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:07:30 2011 No.3956493 >>3956477 You saw what I posted. That should be sufficient to figure out what I mean by 'macroevolution'. If you want to come up with any perverted definition, just to pretend your claims being correct, I'm not gonna support that kind of trolling.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:09:30 2011 No.3956505 >>3956354 Wrong. Macroevolution is Microevolution over time, and Macroevolution has been observed in flies.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:11:30 2011 No.3956515 >>3956505 >Macroevolution has been observed in flies What did they become? If they remained flies, it's not macroevolution.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:11:30 2011 No.3956519 >>3956505 >macroevolution has been observed in flies >macroevolution observed in a fly's lifetime >the fly is still a fly >doesnt understand what macroevolution is

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:12:30 2011 No.3956525 >>3956489 Sorry, posting a video with nice pictures of animals is not a proof.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:13:30 2011 No.3956532

>>3956515
>>3956519
They basically had a number of flies of the same species live under very different conditions. About 20 years later, the flies of the same species had split up into two separate species. They defined seperate as not being able to produce offspring while mating, e.g dog and woman, or in this case, one type of fly to another.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:15:30 2011 No.3956542 File: 226 KB, 1280x1024, Reaper_fleet.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:15:30 2011 No.3956543 >>3956515 >too stupid to breathe >intellectually dishonest pick one

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:17:30 2011 No.3956551

>>3956532
The point is they are still nothing but fucking flies.
They didn't become other animals.
They didn't evolve into humans.
They didn't gain any superpowers.
THAT is not macroevolution.
And don't come with this stupid "speciation is macroevolution" crap.
Then call it something else, anyway the thing I refer to as macroevolution IS nothing but a geuss.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:17:30 2011 No.3956552 >>3956532 ah, then I would agree.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:19:30 2011 No.3956564 >>3956551 Enjoy reveling in your no true scotsman fallacy then. People who actually care about this shit will prevail, just like they did with the Dover case.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:20:30 2011 No.3956567 No real scientist would seriosly consider macroevolution to be scientific. inb4 Darwin No, Darwin was not a scientist. He didn't use the scientific method. All he did was observation and making up theories. This approach is called 'philosophy'.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:20:30 2011 No.3956568 >>3956493 I'm not going to guess, and I'm not going to pervert. You're going to say it or not say it, and then you're going to lose in one of three ways based on that choice and the resulting definition.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:20:30 2011 No.3956569
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1+1=2
That is micro-addition
1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+
1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=76
Macro-addition
The only difference between micro evolution and macro evolution is time scale. Many small changes equals one large change.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:22:30 2011 No.3956576

>>3956354
Macroevolution and Microevolution are the same thing, the only difference being the time scale involved.

>>3956392
>Arranging them in a random order and claiming that is how they evolved, is a guess, an arbitrary interpretation of the given data.
Durr, how does I Law of Superposition? How does I Geology?

>>3956426
We have evidence through the fossil record, which you don't seem to grasp. Also ring species.

>>3956428
This. Also gain of function mutations. Also bacterial conjugation. Also, to an extent, gene duplication (not necessarily adding new information so much as expressing certain genes in excess, leading to new chromosomes, gene families, etc.) and Epigenetics (not necessarily "adding" new information so much as changing which information is available for expression).

>>3956487
>u can not add genetic info to the dna
Yes you can, see above.

>>3956515
>If they remained flies, it's not macroevolution.
Hurrrr

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:24:30 2011 No.3956587 >there is no way to add information in the DNA. none. errhhh... yeah there is >there is no way to add comments to this video. none. yeah okay I'm out

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:25:30 2011 No.3956591

>>3956551
But they are separate species. No, they didn't turn into a monkey, but into another species of bug.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species
"A species is often defined as a group of organisms capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring."
Which is exactly what happened here.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:26:30 2011 No.3956597

>>3956576
>grabbing some random quotes
>stating the opposite without evidence
Yeah, great rebuttal, man.

>>3956568
When talking of macroevolution I mean the emerging of new features on a macroscopic scale.
A butterfly changing it's skin color is not a big change.
A human evolving into a monkey IS a big change.
Another example is a fish developping legs.

This might not be the same as your definition, but it's a concept that can't be proved by 'evolutionary biology'.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:26:30 2011 No.3956602

>>3956340
Let me explain something to you, in two parts:

1. Assuming you're really, truly a religious person who believes there is such a thing as God: Your presence on 4chan is not credible. Why? Because 4chan is full of vice, and sin, and porn, and worse things; everything that is wrong and bad to you is HERE. You would not choose to be here; your being HERE is inimical to your very core, poison to your so-called soul. You are made UNCLEAN by being here.

2. Trolls post threads like this one hundreds of times per day all over 4chan. Your thread, even if genuine, is not distinguishable from a troll's.

Therefore: Regardless of whether you are a geniune believer in God or not, you are treated as a troll, not to be taken seriously. If genuine, your attempts at proselytizing and evangelizing fail completely, because you cannot distinguish yourself from the trolls.

And so: You have one logical course of action: Delete this thread now, exit 4chan never to return, and (if genuinely religious) seek out your local relgious leader, confess that you have been to this Awful Place, and make amends to your god (or whatever it is you people do). Then go hang out on websites for people like you.

If you're a troll: Religion trolling is SO Last Thursday; it's dated, it's boring, it's predictable; there is NO angle you can come up with that hasn't been done a thousand times by much more talented trolls than you are. So just don't do it. Find something more interesting, or better yet: more humorous, to troll about. You'll have more fun, and so will everyone else.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:27:30 2011 No.3956606 >>3956597 >Yeah, great rebuttal, man. You're either a troll or you can't read and look up the numerous definitions and evidence I provided.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:28:30 2011 No.3956610 >>3956597 The problem here is that you want observable, real-time Macro-Evolution. That would take millions of years, however, this IS still Macro-Evolution, even if it isn't as big of a change as a "fish growing legs". >>3956532

Smith Wed Oct 26 15:28:30 2011 No.3956614
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WRong.... u can pass ur genetic code to future generations.. due to the need of survive and challenges of the outer world u IMPROVE at surviving.. this is saved in ur dna and given to the next generation as u reproduce.. read about Darwing and his argumentation about evoulution.. u might learn something
here.. some porn.. Fap.. wait.. think... read about Darwings arugmentation.. think about fairy tales and if god exists.. u discover u are wrong.. how can u post something as stupid as this on the page for science?? u insult the humanity!!

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:30:30 2011 No.3956624

>>3956610
There's the problem. Macroevolution cannot be observed and therefore will never be scientifically confirmed.

>>3956606
You are the troll. Already the fact that you are the first one ITT to accuse a legit poster of trolling makes you noncredible.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:32:30 2011 No.3956632
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>>3956602

Wow you typed all that bullshit about the possible intents of the OP and still managed to miss the point of the thread. It's called a fucking joke, or purporting to be a troll to start a discussion in a provoative manner.

But now you just ignore all counterarguments against or criticism of evolution just because you've decided to dismiss it as trolling?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:32:30 2011 No.3956633 >>3956624 But that's fucking wrong you retard.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:33:30 2011 No.3956637 File: 31 KB, 500x332, wtf.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3956614 >Darwing also, dat blotchy complexion

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:34:30 2011 No.3956645

>>3956624
>You are the troll. Already the fact that you are the first one ITT to accuse a legit poster of trolling makes you noncredible.
>you are the first one ITT to accuse a legit poster of trolling makes you noncredible.
>accuse a legit poster of trolling
>makes you noncredible
>legit poster
The only thing "legit" about the posts is the fact that someone posted them.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:34:30 2011 No.3956646 >>3956633 Right, insult me. Let your emotions of rage and anger out. Then you can realize and accept that I was saying an inconvenient truth.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:40:30 2011 No.3956668 >>3956597 By monkeys turning into humans, do you mean modern monkeys and if so which species, or do you mean the ancient basal primates we and modern monkeys share a common ancestor with?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:41:30 2011 No.3956674 >>3956668 I mean whatever monkeys these evolutiontards believe to have evolved into humans.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:43:30 2011 No.3956684 File: 26 KB, 509x42, lolno.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3956674 >>3956674

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:45:30 2011 No.3956692 >>3956340 christfag

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:48:30 2011 No.3956709 Who cares about evolution anyway, biologists? >biology >science at all

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:48:30 2011 No.3956710 Science does not hold all the answers. Some of us look to spiritual ways of coping with unknown and some cling to out dated theories (evolution)

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:50:30 2011 No.3956721
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>>3956674
Right, those would be not monkeys, but the simiiformes.
Also I expect you to not weaken your own position by making crude insults against the researchers who investigate the facts.
Do you know how to read a cladogram?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:51:30 2011 No.3956726 God created evolution and the Bible is not the word of God after all. DEBATE SOLVED

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 15:53:30 2011 No.3956736 >>3956721 Of course I know how to read a cladogram (I'm a biologist). That doesn't make it true in any way. Making up stuff isn't science.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:02:30 2011 No.3956773 >>3956736 >>3956340 >making up stuff Oh you mean the bible? Or basically every other religion? Research more.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:04:30 2011 No.3956778 File: 154 KB, 875x402, 1317138442236.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3956340

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:06:30 2011 No.3956781 >>3956778 His argument isn't that red CAN'T turn into blue, but that it HASN'T. He's already said that microevolution COULD continue and result in macroevolution. He just denies it as history.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:06:30 2011 No.3956784 >>3956773 So much buttmad in your post.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:08:30 2011 No.3956788 >>3956781 there are literally tons of evidence

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:09:30 2011 No.3956794

>>3956551
> The point is they are still nothing but fucking flies.
The point is that humans are nothing but fucking Cellular, Eukaryote, Unicont, Opisthocont, Holozoan, Filozoan, Animal, Eumetazoan, Bilateral, Deuterostome, Chordate, Craniate, Vertebrate, Gnathostome, Eugnathostome, Teleostome, Tetrapod, Mammaliform, Mammal, Theriiform, Holotheric, Cladotheric, Zatheric, Tribosphend, Theric, Placental, Boreoeutheric, Euarchontoglire, Euarchont, Primate, Haplorhin, Simiiform, Catarrhin, Hominoid, Hominid, Hominina, Hominini, Homo Sapien.
They never turned into a DIFFERENT kind of animal, like a bird or something, that would be ridiculous.

>>3956736
I had to ask, because for a biologist you have an absolutely terrible understanding of biology, and I don't want to guess at what you know.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:10:30 2011 No.3956800

>>3956778

A cat didn't evolve from a dog, but they both came from one species, since they must have gone down different evolutionary paths (otherwise they wouldn't be very different animals). There must have been one distinct point in time where the dogs and cats became two different species.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:13:30 2011 No.3956812 >>3956794 So you're saying that all animals are the SAME? No, they're obviously not. A human is not a fish and not a reptile, he's not even a monkey. He's just a human.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:13:30 2011 No.3956814 File: 137 KB, 603x825, temp.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3956800 Indeed there is.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:14:30 2011 No.3956816 >>3956788 There is so much evidence that you fail to bring up even a sinlge one.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:15:30 2011 No.3956821 >>3956812 Thank you for agreeing with me? No, I'm not saying what you said I'm saying. Did you see bird or reptile in the list? Do you think we stopped being primates when we became simiiformes?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:15:30 2011 No.3956822 >>3956812 this guy has what Richard Dawkins calls discontinuous mind tyranny

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:15:30 2011 No.3956826 >>3956800 Really? What is the difference between a genet and a true cat?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:17:30 2011 No.3956831 >>3956821 >we stopped being primates We can't even be sure whether we've ever been primates. >>3956822 Dawkins is practicing mind tyranny.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:20:30 2011 No.3956843 >>3956831 Can you be sure you were ever cellular, eukaryotic, or a mammal?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:20:30 2011 No.3956844 >>3956831 I also bet you can't reliably tell the difference between late homo erectus and early homo sapiens skulls.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:27:30 2011 No.3956868 >>3956843 These terms don't define specific animals but broader classes of animals, based on exterior properties.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:27:30 2011 No.3956872 >>3956814 Okay so let's say through mutation a dog was formed and gave birth to more dogs (the canidae family), what about all the other animals who were genetically siblings of that dog? One became a cat and created the felidae family, and the rest?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:29:30 2011 No.3956878 >>3956868 Just like primate does. What's your objection? I already said you weren't descended from a monkey. And you said you knew how to read that cladogram. I'm not buying that whole biologist thing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:30:30 2011 No.3956887 >>3956878 >I already said you weren't descended from a monkey Then what of my posts are you opposing?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:32:30 2011 No.3956895 lol give it up atheists. Your justifications are really pathetic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:35:30 2011 No.3956912 >>3956895 gets called 'Delusional' ... is so very butthurt.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:37:30 2011 No.3956917 >>3956912 >believes pond slime turned into a human >calls other delusional Atheists, your insistence to deny God is ultimately futile. I can't even believe I'm arguing with you closed minded idiots.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:38:30 2011 No.3956924 conclusions from this thread, most of /sci/ cannot into biology

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:38:30 2011 No.3956925 File: 76 KB, 497x453, trollface_computer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >ITT

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:39:30 2011 No.3956929

>>3956872
No, let's not say that. That is not how to read cladograms. Let's say a carnivora gave birth to two children, one of which was ever so slightly more catlike then itself and one was ever so slightly more doglike, and their descendants branched away from each other to become feliforms and caniforms. And one of those caniforms had two children, one of which was a canid and the other was an Arctoid. And that canid had a wolf, and the wolf was domesticated over hundreds of generations, and over many more bred into a labrador, and NOW you have a common dog. The ENDS of the cladograms don't link to each OTHER. You /never/ have a dog turn into a cat. THAT would destroy evolution.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:42:30 2011 No.3956939 >evolution in the sense that life came from non-life that's not evolution

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:44:30 2011 No.3956951 File: 2 KB, 126x126, 1318480143361s costanza.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >species

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:48:30 2011 No.3956970
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The thing is that pure Darwinian theory does not hold water, when it comes to something like the irreducible complexity. Though I do not believe in the intelligent design, but the statement: "Every function can be explained through gradual change of previous states." While in the case of flagella this definition falls short. So we should modify Darwins theory that sporadic massive complex gains do happen and everything is not gradual.

This series of videos is quite explanatory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c8kmAahZXs

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:50:30 2011 No.3956977 >>3956970 Oops. http://www.talkdesign.org/faqs/flagellum.html

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:52:30 2011 No.3956989 >>3956917 'turned into'... you mean like Teenage Mutant Ninja Pondscum? nope. every individual on earth was produced by members of the same species to which it belongs. Until you can understand that concept.. you need to keep quiet.

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 16:54:30 2011 No.3956993

>>3956917
close minded... lol. You're the one who believes in an omnipotent being with zero evidence to support his existence. Then you choose to argue about something which has loads of evidence to support it.

Ok. Thought experiment. Let's imagine for a second that God is real. To you, the only possible explanation for human life is that we had to be created by something else. That something else is God. Where did God come from? If God has simply "always been here", then why do you insist that we had to be created?

Also, assuming this God fellow is real, and that he created all life... This means that he also created disease, satan, and everything bad that plagues humanity. But how could this be possible if he is so perfect?

But I'm the closed minded one. Clearly I'm being irrational. Not you...

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:54:30 2011 No.3956994 >>3956989 >every individual on earth was produced by members of the same species to which it belongs Impossible. If that were true, we'd all still be single celled organisms.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:56:30 2011 No.3957004 >>3956993 >with zero evidence to support his existence The very existence of the universe is evidence itself. If you don't understand why, it's no wonder you're an atheist.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 16:57:30 2011 No.3957010 God created everything in the universe. Good exists. Evil exists. Therefore God created evil. Why do you worship the creator of evil?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:57:30 2011 No.3957017 >>3956993 Why do you respond to an obviousl troll? Do you have a mental disorder?

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:57:30 2011 No.3957018

>>3956917
Granted said pond slime took an unfathomable amount of time to turn into humans. It may not sound right, but it's the best the human race has come up with if only empirical evidence is used. Just because we haven't figured out exactly how it happened doesn't necessarily mean it had to be caused by God.

Saying "Eh, God probably did it" violates the idea of the scientific method. Though it's fine to believe that, you can't just expect everyone to assume its truth simply because we haven't fully explained the origin of life.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:58:30 2011 No.3957022 >>3957010 Evil is the result of man falling from grace. You don't even understand the BASICS of theology. I suggest you stop talking about something you are so incredibly uneducated about.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 16:58:30 2011 No.3957024 >>3957004 Actually, the existence of the universe is not evidence of anything other than the universe itself. You're a fucking idiot. Your logic basically equates to 0 + 1 = infinity

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:59:30 2011 No.3957026
File: 3 KB, 127x88, 1297485548854.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3956977
Ooops didn't watch the video didn't you? The type III apparatus, pilus and many other "parts" of the flagellum come in later in the bacterial evolution and are not present in most of the bacteria.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 16:59:30 2011 No.3957027 >>3956994 I'm going to have to ask you to STFU. It is not that hard of a concept.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 16:59:30 2011 No.3957030 >>3957022 Man? You mean the people that God supposedly created? If he created something which is capable of evil, then he FUCKING CREATED EVIL YOU STUPID CUNT!

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:00:30 2011 No.3957035

>>3956373
that is evidence of predation, not evolution

no white moths turned into black moths, and no black moths turned into white moths

just the visible moths got eaten at a higher rate, adjusting the relative population of white moths to black moths

if this is your "proof" of macroevolution, it fails hard

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:01:30 2011 No.3957039

>>3957024
Everything has a beginning. Everything that has a beginning has a creator. The universe has a beginning, therefore was created.

>>3957027
>no argument
>resorts to namecalling

Wouldn't expect any less from an angry atheist

>>3957030
It was man's choice to sin and fall into evil. Again, please read a book before opening your mouth.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:01:30 2011 No.3957042 >>3956389 no it didn't, asshole

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:02:30 2011 No.3957047 >>3956413 you can't walk far enough to turn into a tree that's the point

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:03:30 2011 No.3957056 >>3956442 a Creator God creating the universe makes perfect sense

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:03:30 2011 No.3957058 >>3956449 then quit running into mah churches yelling for proofs of errything!!!

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:04:30 2011 No.3957059

>>3957039
Ok, let me rephrase.

If you have something which is truly perfect. And it is the only thing that exists period. And that thing creates something else which is not perfect, then obviously it was never perfect to begin with. If free will was given to us by God, that means he gave us the choice between evil and good. Which means he created evil. I don't understand why you cant grasp this simple concept

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:05:30 2011 No.3957067 File: 42 KB, 560x640, goosebumps.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3956970 >pure Darwinian theory puerrr Hurrwinian theodurrry put down the Goosebumps and learn2science

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:05:30 2011 No.3957068 >>3956487 self-pwned lulzy

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:05:30 2011 No.3957073 >>3956490 but you're perfectly fine with t-rex turning into a parrot

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:06:30 2011 No.3957076 >>3956505 no it isn't, and no it hasn't

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:07:30 2011 No.3957081 >>3956532 fucking up a fly's sex life is not proof of macroevolution

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:07:30 2011 No.3957085 >>3957073 No intelligent person believes dinosaurs turned into parrots. Are you completely dense? Learn to read before you start stupid arguments. You obviously don't understand ANYTHING about how evolution works

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:08:30 2011 No.3957087

>>3956576
you do geology by apparently ignoring the enormous elephant in the room

a worldwide flood about 4500 years ago that fucked everything up, big time, and left layers of dried mud all over the earth (you do know that sedimentary rock is just dried mud, yes?)

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:09:30 2011 No.3957092 >>3957059 God created man perfect, and it was his desire to stray from God because of temptation from Satan. How many times do I have to tell you that?

>>	Jouten Wed Oct 26 17:12:30 2011 No.3957104 Isn't a mutation the process of losing genetic information, and gaining information, through changing genetic information?

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:12:30 2011 No.3957108

>>3957092
If man was perfect he wouldn't have strayed in the first place. Satan was also created by God. Which means that Satan also would have to be perfect. So why did Satan turn against God? Something that is perfect is incapable of mistakes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:14:30 2011 No.3957118 >>3957108 Evil was injected into the world by Satan. God created us perfect but also gave us the free will to chose whether or not to obey God's will. We chose not to and that is why there is sin and evil. Don't talk about stuff you've never studied.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:17:30 2011 No.3957129 >>3957059 evil is nothing but perverted good; nothing has to create evil, it just has to corrupt good God created everything good; some angels turned evil, and mankind fell into sin. you putting that on God is ridiculous

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:17:30 2011 No.3957131 >>3957108 Are you getting trolled on purpose or what?

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:18:30 2011 No.3957137

>>3957118
You completely skipped the part where Satan was created by God. If evil was injected into the world by a creation of God, then God is responsible for evil.

Btw, I studied the bible every day for 10 years. I've read 3 different versions from cover to cover. (plus the book of John like 50 fucking times because thats all they ever fucking talk about in church)

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:18:30 2011 No.3957138

>>3957085
uh, it's your side that says that dinosaurs "evolved" into birds

my side says that they are still alive in isolated areas, and were created about 6000 years ago, on the same exact day mankind was

you know, just like in those hundreds of cave paintings that have been found dating back thousands of years. men hunting dinosaurs.

see, 25' crocodile. see, komodo dragon. see, the Loch Ness Monster. see, the Diary of Marco Polo re the t-rex. and on, and on, and on

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:20:30 2011 No.3957143 >>3957131 Yes. now fuck off and stop samefagging trying to pretend you aren't OP.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:21:30 2011 No.3957149 >>3957137 That's like saying if you murder someone with a gun, the gun manufacturer is responsible for the death, not me who pulled the trigger. You are so ignorant.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:23:30 2011 No.3957154

>>3957137
satan was lucifer, the most beautiful angel, and he was made to be good

he then turned evil and staged a coup against God, that failed

now he's recruiting, and you're the candidate

God doesn't create evil; you can attempt to judge Him for temporarily "allowing" evil, but then, who are you to judge God?

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:23:30 2011 No.3957155

>>3957138
Actually my side says that a massive asteroid hit the earth causing them to go extinct. Something can't evolve from an extinct animal.

Definition of dinosaur - A person or thing that is outdated or has become obsolete because of failure to adapt to changing circumstances.

Therefor any dinosaurs that are still alive in isolated areas as you say, wouldn't actually be dinosaurs

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:24:30 2011 No.3957159 >>3957154 >he then turned evil and staged a coup against God, that failed Really? Care to explain how such a thing could happen if a perfect being created him to be good?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:26:30 2011 No.3957168 >>3957155 lol nice definition i guess a dodo is a dinosaur then hey look! it's also a bird!

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:28:30 2011 No.3957175 >>3957168 >implying a bird cant be a dinsoaur

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:30:30 2011 No.3957184

>>3957159
sure

lucifer was good, and beautiful, and commanded 1/3 of the heavenly forces. he then said that he was going to place his throne above the throne of the most High God.

and got booted out of his estate, along with his followers.

lucifer is no match for God; he may be a match for either Michael or Gabriel, but not God. nobody is a match for God. God vs. the universe, God wins

winning is what God does; He always wins, and He never comes in second place.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:30:30 2011 No.3957193 >>3957168 Also, stop arguing semantics. Regardless of which definition you use... Every definition implies an animal or reptile which is extinct.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:31:30 2011 No.3957194 >>3957175 >implying the pteradactyl turned into a dodo

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:32:30 2011 No.3957203 Why can't God have created the process of evolution?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:32:30 2011 No.3957204 >>3957193 i'm trying to get through your thick skull that all dinosaurs are not extinct by asking you to tell me the difference between a "dinosaur" and a 25' crocodile

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:34:30 2011 No.3957216 >>3957194 implying that a dinosaur can be a bird, does not equate to saying pteradactyls turned into a dodos. Stop putting words in my mouth and answer my fucking question. You know, the one you've been avoiding? >>3957159

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:34:30 2011 No.3957220 >>3957203 because he then would have lied to Moses about how He created the world; obviously, i don't give a rip about how He created the world, but if He lied to Moses, then He's a liar, and not God, or at least, not a God worth worshipping

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:34:30 2011 No.3957223 >>3957204 by definition if it is not extinct, it's NOT A DINOSAUR.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:36:30 2011 No.3957232 >>3957204 So the difference in case you are too dense to figure it out... is that a crocodile is not extinct.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:39:30 2011 No.3957247 >>3957149 That's not the same thing because nobody is trying to argue that the person who created the gun is a perfect, omnipotent being

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:45:30 2011 No.3957279 Unless this question >>3957159 gets answered, science wins! /thread

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:53:30 2011 No.3957317 >>3957216 asked and answered pride it was pride that caused lucifer to fall like a meteorite from the heavens to earth; it is pride that will cause many to join him

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:53:30 2011 No.3957323 >>3957279 lol hivemind christians win because God wins, and science is wrong, again

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:54:30 2011 No.3957329 >>3957232 so, in other words, the only difference between a "dinosaur" and a 25' crocodile is that the 25' crocodile exists today? really? lol

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:55:30 2011 No.3957336 >>3957223 so, you've travelled the world, and the seven seas, and have confirmed that all of the offspring of all of the dinosaurs are now extinct oh, and the bottom of the sea, as well. predator x is leviathan, don't you know

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:56:30 2011 No.3957337

>>3957317
You may have given an answer, but it did not explain anything. If God is perfect, and he created Lucifer, it follows that Lucifer would also be perfect. If Lucifer was perfect, he never would have gone against the will of God. Why cant you see that the core of the belief of Judaism(You know, where your religion came from) is inherently flawed?

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 17:58:30 2011 No.3957345 >>3957336 Well, if they weren't extinct, they wouldn't be called dinosaurs. Now stop trying to derail the topic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:58:30 2011 No.3957346 >>3957337 by your logic, which i reject, if lucifer was a "perfect being", and not a "good being", a perfect being like lucifer is well supported in his belief that he too can be God kind of shows you how nobody considers lucifer to be perfect, huh

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 17:58:30 2011 No.3957353 >>3957345 do you even know what people called dinosaurs prior to the word "dinosaur" being coined in the 19th century?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:02:30 2011 No.3957365 >>3957345 if they all went extinct 63 million years ago, how is it that cavemen painted them on walls a few thousand years ago, and quite accurately?

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 18:03:30 2011 No.3957372

>>3957346
So, you are admitting that God created something imperfect? Gee, that doesn't sound like something a perfect being would do. Also, being omnipotent, he would know before he even created Lucifer what would happen. Therefor God created him knowing that he would be the "source" of all evil. This means that God deliberately created evil

>lucifer is well supported in his belief that he too can be God
Not unless God also created Lucifer to be omnipotent. Perfect and omnipotent are not the same thing.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 18:05:30 2011 No.3957385 >>3957353 Nope. I also don't give a shit. It's not relevant. I will not reply to any further posts regarding what dinosaurs are because they are detracting from the topic at hand.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:05:30 2011 No.3957389

>>3957372
um, a perfect being would be omnipotent, by definition

your logic is getting as bad as your trip

and everywhere God is recorded as creating something, He calls it "good"

it is YOUR assumption that a "perfect God" would ONLY create "perfect creations". your human logic fails, and fails hard. God created as He saw fit, not as you think He ought to have.

when you make a universe, you can make the rules. for now, God made the universe, so God makes the rules. that's how it goes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:06:30 2011 No.3957391 >>3957385 LALALALALALALALALALALALAICAN'THEARYOUOVERTHESOUNDSOFTHESEDINOSAURSLALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 18:10:30 2011 No.3957401

>>3957389

Noun:
The perfect tense.
Adjective:
Having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be.
Verb:
Make (something) completely free from faults or defects, or as close to such a condition as possible.
Synonyms:
adjective. complete - absolute - consummate - utter - thorough
verb. improve - complete - finish - accomplish

Notice how the word omnipotent is not listed under synonyms.

Adjective:
(of a deity) Having unlimited power; able to do anything.
Noun:
God.
Synonyms:
almighty - all-powerful

You can plainly see here how they are not even close to being the same thing.

Again... if God created Lucifer knowing what would happen as a result, then he is directly responsible for EVERYTHING that happened as a result.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:17:30 2011 No.3957429 >>3957401 >Having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be. lol your own words defeat you

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:20:30 2011 No.3957435 why all creationist have waky and goofy southern voices? is it a requirement?

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 18:21:30 2011 No.3957445

I'm sorry, but you're a moron if you think "Having unlimited power; able to do anything." is the same thing as "Having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be."

An equilateral triangle is a perfect shape. that does not make it omnipotent.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:23:30 2011 No.3957447 >>3957435 um, do you hear voices now?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:26:30 2011 No.3957453 >>3957445 are we talking about triangles, or supernatural deities? one of us is confused oh, and it's you

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:27:30 2011 No.3957457 >>3957445 Al else being equal, a person who is stronger than another person is better than that other person. Similarly, a person who is stronger than that "better person" is better than that "better person." See where I'm getting with this?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:28:30 2011 No.3957461 >>3957457 indeed; you are headed towards the ontological proof of God; that which is the greatest being that can ever be conceived throw in an argument that things that exist are greater than things that do not exist, and voila! logical proof of God

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:31:30 2011 No.3957470 >>3957461 Not really. I'm merely saying that a perfect being must be omnipotent; nowhere do I claim that it must exist.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:33:30 2011 No.3957471 >>3957470 God is omnipotent; problem solved. oh, and He exists, which leaves you with a problem, unsolved but an easy answer. believe.

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 18:33:30 2011 No.3957472

>>3957457
Being stronger than someone has nothing to do with being better.

>>3957453
Now we're not talking about either. We're talking about the of the words omnipotent and perfect as adjectives. You seem to think they are the same thing when they aren't. So I gave you a very simple example so your simple brain could grasp why they are so different from each other.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:35:30 2011 No.3957475

>>3957472
gotta love batshitbob thinking he knows stuff

lulzy

anyway, it is your assumption that a perfect God would create nothing but a perfect (fill in the blank), and since you see flaws in (fill in the blank), God must not therefore be perfect. you think you have a box you can put God in. but if you can put God in a box, then the box is more powerful than God, yes?

then you go one step further, and blame God for all the evil in the universe, without being able to attach any evil deed to Him directly.

hey, bud, good luck with that whole judging God thing. let me know how it turns out.

oh, wait, i already know how it turns out.

BADLY

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:38:30 2011 No.3957482

>>3957471
Except you claim he exists without justification. I could do the same thing for the perfect godslayer, if I cared to.
>>3957472
That's where the "All else being equal" comes into play. If you don't care about strength, consider intelligence, wisdom, etc. instead.

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 18:39:30 2011 No.3957485

>>3957475
>you think you have a box you can put God in. but if you can put God in a box, then the box is more powerful than God, yes?

Not really. i can put myself in a box. That doesn't make the box more powerful than me. Logic fail!

>then you go one step further, and blame God for all the evil in the universe, without being able to attach any evil deed to Him directly.

Except creating a being knowing ahead of time all the evil that will result from it. That sounds pretty fucking evil to me.

>hey, bud, good luck with that whole judging God thing. let me know how it turns out.

As soon as your imaginary friend smites me for judging him, I'll make sure to let you know.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:40:30 2011 No.3957489

think about microbial cultures, can the speed of multiplication be affected by changing the environment?

increase/decrease in temp
different substrates
different lighting conditions

on a more complex scale can the same be applied to the evolution model.

i think evolution is only a piece of bigger picture

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 18:41:30 2011 No.3957491 >>3957482 you're right. I actually somehow skipped over the "all else being equal" part. In which case, I have no fucking clue what he was trying to get at.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:41:30 2011 No.3957493 >>3957482 i say He exists because He said He exists, and for no other reason some day you might understand that taking a deity's word on things is a smart move

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:43:30 2011 No.3957497

>>3957485
i'll never know; i won't be there. i'll be in heaven, chilling with Jesus

you'll be in a long line of people waiting to get thrown into hell

that sound like a good idea to you? to choose to get thrown into hell with the devil and his bunch? especially knowing that i deserve to be thrown into hell just as much, if not more, than you do?

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 18:43:30 2011 No.3957500 >>3957482 Although, saying that stronger is better(with all else being equal) is to imply that stronger is desirable(which may be the case for most people). So it's really all relative.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:44:30 2011 No.3957504 >>3957489 yeah, we're still talking about where the first microbe is supposed to have come from but thanks for playing

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 18:46:30 2011 No.3957509 >>3957497 So far, with every post, you've avoided explaining to me why you word worship a being despite >creating a being knowing ahead of time all the evil that will result from it.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:46:30 2011 No.3957510

i think the point where sci trolls is that it forces god to be "supernatural"

an all powerful god only ever had to push the start button.. and that was only for our sake.

although that would imply limited freedom of choice but thats another observation altogether.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:48:30 2011 No.3957517 >>3957482 no you couldn't; it's not rational you cannot kill God, so there is no "greatest godslayer" all fail at killing God

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 18:49:30 2011 No.3957519 >>3957497 So far, with every post, you've avoided explaining to me why you word worship a being despite >creating a being knowing ahead of time all the evil that will result from it.

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 18:52:30 2011 No.3957527

>>3957517
At this point, you are the last person in the world who gets to argue over what is and isn't rational. Believing in an omnipotent being with no evidence other than "the universe exists" is pretty fucking irrational considering that there are other possibilities.

I could use the same fail logic to say that God has a father given the evidence "God exists"

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:52:30 2011 No.3957530

>>3957519
because, in God's economy, He counted the cost (the lost angels, and lost souls), and counted the profit (the retained angels, and the saved souls), and determined that the profit(including the torture of His own Son, Jesus) was worth the cost.

by doing so, He created heaven for me. so i love Him and worship Him; not because i loved Him first, but because He loved me before He even created the world. in other words, i only love Him back, and that only by using His character, love, to show Him how i feel about being His.

if you end up in hell, you chose to be there; He did not make you to just chuck you into hell. it's your choice to be without Him, and He will respect your choice, to your eventual horror

or, you can, like me, accept the pardon for all the sins committed against Him, paid for by the blood of His Son, and chill with Him in heaven forever, creating, enjoying, and creating some more. oh, and then enjoying some more.

good times, good times

and all the broken, evil shit in this universe will be a forgotten entity, never to resurface

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:52:30 2011 No.3957531 >>3957513 created evil, well i know i try to limit the amount of mischief i make. but it may be a case of chopping down the tree to save the cat. nobody knows the consequences of there actions unless they see the effect.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:54:30 2011 No.3957538

>>3957527
God does have a father, God the Father. God the Son has a father, God the Father. God the Holy Spirit has a father, God the Father.

and God the Father is not a created being, and has no father, but Himself, the great I Am, the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, the Lion of Judah, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords

selah

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:56:30 2011 No.3957550 >>3957531 which is why having a God turn everything you do into good can come in quite handy

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:58:30 2011 No.3957556 >>3957538 so what distinction do you make between moses, abraham and jesus?

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 18:59:30 2011 No.3957562

>>3957530
Hell sounds like a bad place, I don't really wish to go there, thank you.

...Still, me being an atheist, God will send me down anyway. He does not give a flying fuck if I actually was a good person or not, if you don't believe, down you go.

It is like a robber who robs you at gunpoint. Can it really be called a choice to give him the money or to be popped in the head? Even if you would say that I would have the choice, I would highly question the gunman's morals.

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 19:00:30 2011 No.3957564

>>3957530
Except that the profit is all things he created. Therefor he can have as many angels and souls in an infinite amount if he wanted. Consider the following scenario.

I am an omnipotent being. I create 2 people. Man and women. I place them in a beautiful garden that I created. I tell them that they can eat from any of the plant life so long as they don't eat from one specific tree. Now, I already know with 100% certainty they are going to eat from that tree before I even created the tree, the garden, or the people. So then, after everything unfolds exactly how I knew it would, I punish them.

This would be like if I wrote a program to add all the numbers between 1 and 100, but before I actually run the program, I tell it "Don't give me the inevitably correct answer!". Then when it gives me the only answer that it can give, I punish program.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:01:30 2011 No.3957572 >>3957556 Moses: deliverer from egypt, and law giver Abraham: faithful father of nations Jesus: Son of God, Lamb of God, now Lion of Judah Moses and Abraham were men; Jesus became a man by divine process, being born of a virgin.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:02:30 2011 No.3957575

Falling for a troll but how often do I get to use my favorite arguments against this kind of shit people actually believe.

1) Did your god create hell.

2) Did your god create the criteria for who goes to hell and who doesn't.

3) Does anything happen that goes against your gods plan.

If yes then your god is responsible for who goes to hell.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:03:30 2011 No.3957580 >>3957550 if that were true there would be no need for the word "humility" self righteousness as a character trait does not make the best of students, unless it is accompanied by understanding.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:04:30 2011 No.3957585

>>3957562
and yet, you are not making the correct choice RIGHT NOW

Jesus stands before you with life and good in one hand, and death and hell in the other. if He waves you one way, you go to heaven; if He waves you the other, you get thrown into the universal incinerator

it's your choice. you can choose today. or you can deny God and choose to be without Him, forever.

i can't describe how bad hell is, nor how good heaven is. words fail.

but i can tell you this; He is wonderful, and a mighty God, and a good Shepherd; a faithful friend, and a rich uncle. He is everything good in everyone good you know, and nothing evil. when you see Him, you will bow before Him; His majesty is overpowering

make the right choice. get off the atheist team. it's going nowhere good

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:07:30 2011 No.3957602 Even if there is no such thing as macro evolution, how does he get from not knowing the answer to 'genesis is the answer'?

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:10:30 2011 No.3957611

>>3957564
see, this is where you fail, and God wins

you think mechanically; God thinks organically

God is Love, not Rape

it seems you would prefer a "watchmaker" God, who just "programmed" everything into being

guess what? that's not what is

deal with what is first, and then bitch about the way you think things should be

an infinite God increasing His infinite properties is beyond our economics; so in His, it makes sense, and that is good enough for me.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:10:30 2011 No.3957612

>>3957585

there is not a chance in hell i believe that.

he might have told you to live but thats only because you couldnt follow in his footsteps.
you always (christians and non christians) say he died for your sins.

thats your stupidity showing through, not only could you not follow his footsteps but you couldnt even realise you were the ones hurting him.

you say heaven and hell await but you couldnt tell the difference between the two.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:14:30 2011 No.3957631 Wouldn't down syndrome be an observable example of genetic material being added to an organism's genetic code? After all, downies do have an extra chromosome.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:15:30 2011 No.3957635

>>3957575
weaksauce

>1) Did your god create hell.
Yes, for the devil and his angels who rebelled against Him in heaven

>2) Did your god create the criteria for who goes to hell and who doesn't.
Yes, all who believe go to heaven, all the rest get thrown into hell, the universal incinerator.

>3) Does anything happen that goes against your gods plan.
Yes; it is not His will that any should perish, but since most do, that is against His "plan"

>If yes then your god is responsible for who goes to hell.
If yes? do you mean If no? regardless, all who go to hell choose to go there; some by direct action, some by ignorance, and some by honest mistake. if you die in your sins, there is nothing left for you but a judgment you have earned, and an eternal reward, which you have also learned

still not sure how this proves anything against God

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:15:30 2011 No.3957636

>>3957611
i dealt with that ages ago.

science points at gravity and says look science.

science points to the sun and moon and says look science.

science points at evolution and implies science.

its like seeing the watch and denying the watchmaker.

as for who made the watchmaker lol thats another question altogether.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:16:30 2011 No.3957643 >>3957631 that irony escaped him at the time; another example of mutations being non-beneficial in the overwhelming mass of non-beneficial mutations hell, i even saw pictures of a guy without a brain; just a bag of cerebral fluid and he was alive

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 19:17:30 2011 No.3957645

>>3957611
It appears you have missed the point(probably intentionally, but whatever).

The point was, if you create something and know ahead of time exactly what it is going to do, you don't punish it because ultimately it's your own damned fault for making it that way.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:17:30 2011 No.3957646

>>3957635
was hoping you'd say yes to the last one your god is a blithering idiot, he is not all knowing all powerful or all loving if you said yes to 3).

Enjoy your faggot hateful god who sends people to hell for lulz or your clumsy retard god who creates evil beings cause he has no fucking clue what he's doing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:17:30 2011 No.3957648 >>3957635 im reading that and it looks like your implying that the worldly life is all there is.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:18:30 2011 No.3957650

>>3957612
not so, friend

in a strange, metaphysical way, yes, i was there. i was there with a cat-of-nine tails whip in my hand and the blood of God on the straps. i threw a punch at the back of His head and mocked Him, telling Him "who hit you? who hit you? who hit you? if you are God, tell us who hit you?" i put a purple robe on His shoulders and a crown of thorns on His head. i bore false witness against Him at His kangaroo court trials. i transported Him to another court, hoping they could convict Him of something. anything. i took Him before Pilate and asked the roman emporer to crucify Him. i rose the crowd's bloodlust against Him, yelling “free Barabbas!” i pushed Him as He bore His own cross. i was there with a hammer in one hand and a spike in the other. i raised that crossbar to the stanchion and fixed it in place. i put a sign mocking Him on His cross as the "king of the jews". i threw the dice to win His robe. i put vinegar on a sponge and pressed it to His thirsty lips. i went to break His legs but He was already dead. so i stabbed Him in His heart, which was broken, blood and water coming out separately. then i took Him and placed a guard around His tomb so His followers couldn't steal His body.

i did all those things.

here’s what He did. He loved me. He forgave me. He adopted me. He went to prepare a place for me in the Father’s mansion. He sent His Holy Spirit to comfort me. He inspired the scriptures to teach me, to encourage me.

He did all those things. that's what Jesus did for me. while yet a sinner, Christ died for me, so that through Him, i could live.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:18:30 2011 No.3957656 >>3957039 >fall from grace [citation needed] inb4 hurdur bible

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 19:20:30 2011 No.3957662

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

>>3957643
It is true that an overwhelming majority of mutations are non-beneficial. But that doesn't mean that it's not possible for them to be beneficial.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:21:30 2011 No.3957668

>>3957645
okay, once again, God made everything good

everything could have remained good. you are correct that God knew that it would not be so, yet God went ahead and did it anyway

you lay blame at God's feet for doing this; you impute the sin of the fallen angels and a fallen humanity on God's plate.

you do this

under what authority? with what power? by what laws? using what means to enforce such a judgment? does personal responsibility mean nothing to you? everything is something else's fault? is that how you live?

>>	Scrotumator !!OxYB4YN2VzR Wed Oct 26 19:22:30 2011 No.3957671 >>3957662 >But that doesn't mean that it's not possible for them to be beneficial. It's pretty much mathematically inevitable given how long life has been evolving.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:22:30 2011 No.3957674 the bible is evidence that one day someone wrote about god and man's fall from grace. it is not proof that these things really happened. if it was, then i could argue harry potter is a real because jk rowling once wrote about it.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:23:30 2011 No.3957679

>Genetic material cannot be added
I just got back from injecting new genetic material into bacteria. Oh and they add it to each other. Hell Down's syndrome adds a whole chromosome.
>Life from non life
Elsewhere in the lab they've made protocells, literally life from non-life.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:23:30 2011 No.3957680

>>3957646
no, He's not a control freak, like you seem to wish He were

He gives men choices, and those choices matter, and those choices accumulate

but make no mistake; the God of Love is also the God of Justice and Righteousness, and any, and i mean any, unrepented sin earns the bearer hell. He is swift to judgment, and the judge of the universe.

you curse him at the very peril of your own soul, to your destruction

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:24:30 2011 No.3957685 >>3957648 i'm responding to the other poster the correct implication would be that the world is a filter, to separate the saved from the lost, by virtue of their belief that would be correct

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:25:30 2011 No.3957689

>>3957585
Still, without strict doctrinarian from youth, it's quite hard to accept your God (with the talking snake, turning rivers to blood and God killing everyone in a huge flood and such. Surely you would understand.)

It just seems... unfair to me... to punish someone with a fate worse than death, simply because he is not convinced, the words written in a 2000 year old book, questionably translated throughout the years with bits being changed, added and removed, where true.

Surely, an omniscient God would know that eventually, the Holy Word alone would not be able to convince people in the future. Surely, if He is all good and all knowing, He would eliminate that chance by providing more proof of his existence.

Also:

Me: "Who! What is this place?"
Jesus: "Heaven, bro!"
Me: "Amazing! There really is a heaven, who would have guessed!"
Jesus: "Eeh, I'm sorry, bro, but you can't come in."
Me: "...Why? I have been a good person!"
Jesus: "Yea, I know, but... you know... In life you didn't believe in me."
Me: "I believe in you know... I'm even talking to you, face to face!"
Jesus: "I'm sorry man, but that don't count!"
Me: "Can't I at least go back and tell others of this so they could go to heaven?"
Jesus: "Na, bro. Down you go!"

Surely the words of an all-loving God.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:25:30 2011 No.3957690 >>3957674 But Harry Potter is fiction.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:26:30 2011 No.3957695

>>3957645

imagine six billion lives, you interact daily with A LOT of people.
implying its your test and punishment is a lol.

you are a test to the people around you as they are to you.

so you get adam and eve but if they were going to do what they were going to do then who made the sin?

to put it very simply most arguments if not all arguments boil down to freedom of choice.

once you understand this you either read a rulebook or pretend.

in the pretense is "following" in the understanding is sorrow.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:26:30 2011 No.3957696

>>3957656
again, you mock the bible as though it were not the Word of God, at peril of your own soul

what a foolish position to take

and if you cannot see for yourself that there is something basically wrong with each and every human being on the planet, indeed, with the planet itself, i have to question your skills of observation

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:27:30 2011 No.3957701 >>3957680 If God gets insulted so easily, then he's no more than a child who's gets angry over name calling.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:27:30 2011 No.3957702

>>3957662
the euripedes assumption has been long answered; God is ready, willing and able to eradicate all evil from the universe, and will do so, exactly as He said He would, on exactly the timetable He set, exactly as He told us He would.

in other words, God does not bow to mankind's timetable, but keeps His own

rest assured, there is no evil in heaven, nor will there be on earth 2.0

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:27:30 2011 No.3957703 >>3957680 You are just whistling past the graveyard. I can smell the stink of your fear from here.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:28:30 2011 No.3957704 >Evolution in the sense that life came from non-life Full retard mode activated!

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:29:30 2011 No.3957708

>>3957671
the world is 6000 years old; the time you think there was for the infinitely possibly thing to happen does not exist

and things to not get better over time; they get worse. computer code does not get better by adding random letters to it; why would you think DNA would?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:29:30 2011 No.3957709 >>3957680 troll harder 3/10

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:29:30 2011 No.3957710 >>3957674 then you come to the parts that accurately predict the future, and the parts that tell you what Jesus is like, and you get blown away

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:29:30 2011 No.3957711 >>3957636 Yet, how does this prove that YOUR God is the true one. Why can't it be the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Or Odin? Or multiple gods?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:30:30 2011 No.3957714 >>3957679 lolno

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 19:31:30 2011 No.3957718

>>3957668
>everything could have remained good. you are correct that God knew that it would not be so, yet God went ahead and did it anyway
Ok. Think about what you just said. If he knew it wouldnt be so, but did it anyways, then that means that everything could NOT be good. Because of God.

>you lay blame at God's feet for doing this; you impute the sin of the fallen angels and a fallen humanity on God's plate.
Damn straight I do. Why the fuck shouldn't I?

>under what authority? with what power? by what laws? using what means to enforce such a judgment?
Why should I need any special authority of power to question an inherently flawed concept.

>does personal responsibility mean nothing to you?
Of course it does.

>everything is something else's fault? is that how you live?
Nope. It's not. Because I'm not a christian. If God is omnipotent and created everything in the universe, then that's how it is. But I don't believe in God, so I don't restrict myself to such thinking.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:31:30 2011 No.3957722 >>3957696 >mock the bible as though it were not the Word of God Not mocking. just saying how theres no reason to believe that it is word of god. and humans are both good and bad simply because nature is both and bad.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:32:30 2011 No.3957727 >>3957702 >there is no evil in heaven You can't be sure. Not in the slightest. its all faith. Good luck to ya

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:33:30 2011 No.3957729 >>3957689 probably why He wrote His laws on YOUR heart, and gave YOU a conscience, so that you could judge YOUR own wickedness, and determine that YOU need a savior just like erryone else

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:33:30 2011 No.3957731 >>3957690 That is exectly the point.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:35:30 2011 No.3957736

>>3957689
omg, i just read the rest of this post, and i have to post this bible story; you have somehow basically recreated this exact story:

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 19:36:30 2011 No.3957739 >>3957690 And what makes you so sure the Bible isn't?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:37:30 2011 No.3957743 >>3957729 In other words, he's lonely so he created humans to entertain himself and force them to worship him in order stroke his inflated ego. The reason he made humans flawed is to prevent a revolt against him.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 19:37:30 2011 No.3957745 >>3957729 Why don't you tell that to people who live in small dwindling tribes in Africa who have never heard of your God.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:37:30 2011 No.3957741 >>3957701 yes, let's think God is an angry tempestuous child, and piss Him off even so lol wouldn't you take MORE care to not be offensive to a thin-skinned God than you would to a God who basically ignored you?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:38:30 2011 No.3957746 >>3957703 you smell victory. it is foreign to you. i have nothing to fear, for the Lord is with me; who can stand against me?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:38:30 2011 No.3957747 Why does this thread still exist... ffs, just let it die.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:38:30 2011 No.3957748 He is a false deity. The christian god is a lie, a sinner, a shadow of the devil, sent here to hinder humanity from truly reaching its full potential.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:39:30 2011 No.3957751

>>3957711
because my God became a man who really lived, who really did miracles, who really died, and who really walked out of His grave on the third day following His public execution, only to ascend into heaven 40 or so days later

my God did that, and it was recorded in history

made quite a splash

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:39:30 2011 No.3957752 >>3957741 a thin-skinned God is gonna be pissed no matter what i do. Also i reserve the right to speak my mind. why should I let other people's offences get in the way?

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:39:30 2011 No.3957753

>>3957680

sure, but i should remind you that the first time round the "saved" were not those that looked saved.

so as you would equate death with sin remember those that were given it at that point in time and at the next point in time.

a description of hell is constant death.. again and again.
like losing skin only for it to be put back on you again.

you should reread scripture with both eyes open and looking at the world.

there is with certainty a heaven and a hell that reside somewhere not on this world.
but there is also a heaven and hell that reside on this world.

what would you do to get in?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:40:30 2011 No.3957754 >>3957741 >God who basically ignored you? Which means that no matter what you do (e.g., worship him, perform good works, act moral) it won't matter.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 19:40:30 2011 No.3957755 >>3957747 short explanation... I enjoy arguing.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:41:30 2011 No.3957758

>>3957718
you keep thinking that you know what God knows

God knows what you are going to do tomorrow. God knows the fourteenth word you are going to say tomorrow, and has known it from the dawn of man.

you are still free to speak, or not to speak, as you will

are you starting to understand the difference between you and God yet?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:42:30 2011 No.3957762 >>3957718 you then don't believe in everything that He created in the universe, despite acknowledging that He may indeed have created everything He said He did, the way He said He did ponderous do you admit there is a universe?

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:42:30 2011 No.3957764

>>3957751
>God became a man who really lived
citation needed
who really did miracles
citation needed
who really walked out of His grave
citation needed

my God did that,
citation needed

> and it was recorded in history
> and it was recorded in a book

ftfy

without historical evidence other than scripture, it's just conjecture. we have historical evidence of all sorts of ancient peoples. it shouldnt be too hard for you to find some of your god if he really as significant as the books says. come on get to it.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 19:43:30 2011 No.3957765 >>3957751 pics or it didn't happen.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:43:30 2011 No.3957767 >>3957722 so "nature" takes the place of "God" in your theology with absolutely no scriptures, no personal meeting with nature, no defined cause for nature, or what it entails just "nature"

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:44:30 2011 No.3957770 >>3957727 sin, evil, and God don't mix; they just don't. it's more of a definitional thing than a "belief"

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 19:45:30 2011 No.3957771 >>3957762 Of course I believe in the Universe. I also accept the FACT that there is more than one possible explanation for it. And that NOBODY knows for a fact which explanation is correct.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:45:30 2011 No.3957773 >249 posts and 16 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view. >a troll thread amazing, /sci/

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:45:30 2011 No.3957774 >>3957731 what point? that you can't discern between the bible and harry potter? why should that concern the rest of us? seems more like a personal problem to me.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:46:30 2011 No.3957775

>>3957767
nature is its own place. what you see in front of you.

and its a better less contradictory explanation for good and evil

nature is neither. neutral. good and evil exist in your brain as some vague notion of what constitutes betterment to the human individual or collective

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:46:30 2011 No.3957777 >>3957770 the christian false "god" is a sinner, and commits evil. no one can argue against that, he is a lie, a shadow of the devil. christianity has the sole purpose of harming humanity and misleading people.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:47:30 2011 No.3957780

>>3957739
accurate history; accurate details of archaelogy; accurate prophecy; accurate recollection of the birth, life, ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, compared not only to itself over the ages, but to roman historical documents, jooish historical documents, and early church documents

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:48:30 2011 No.3957783

>>3957743
i don't know the answer to your question. i do think humanity poses a threat to Him. i do not think He would ever let that threat become reality, and actually endanger Him. i believe He will take steps soon to prevent that. i do not know if the issue is in the balance; i believe it is not

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:49:30 2011 No.3957786

>>3957774
without historical evidence its just a book ( like HP)

we have all sorts of evidence for historical people and events that isnt just book format. so come on, find some of god.

>>3957770
yes sin and evil are not part of the idea of god. but thats the idea.

how it will work out when you finally pop your clogs. nobody knows. could be good for you, could be bad. or could be neither (could be both like this world) could be nothing

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:49:30 2011 No.3957790 >>3957771 But you accept as a FACT that nothing created the universe.

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 19:49:30 2011 No.3957791
File: 31 KB, 553x484, your-argument-is-invalid-because-aliens.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Truthfully, I can acknowledge the possibility of a God. But that God certainly wouldn't be omnipotent nor would he be the creator of the universe itself. He would simply be a member of an advanced civilization that decided to have fun and fuck with people from a more primitive race he found on Earth. I mean, thousands of years ago, any species that has the technology to travel from their home world to here, will definitely seem omnipotent to us. They'd have fucking super powers(aka technology)

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:50:30 2011 No.3957793

>>3957745
every man, woman, and child has His laws written on their hearts, and every man, woman, and child has a conscience

you limit my Lord unnecessarily

and people do not go to hell for never hearing the gospel; they go to hell because they die in their sins

which is why christians preach the gospel to africans, btw, and have for centuries

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:51:30 2011 No.3957797 >>3957748 yet the heart of man is wicked, and causes wickedness to flourish and multiply, inventing ever increasing more ways to perform wickedness a good God would prevent that, yes?

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 19:51:30 2011 No.3957798 >>3957790 Stop putting words in my mouth you stupid cunt. I never even once said that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:51:30 2011 No.3957799 the christian false god is a sinner whose sole purpose is to aid the devil to harm humanity.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:52:30 2011 No.3957808

>>3957752
you shouldn't; every man has to work out his own salvation, with fear and trembling

you can speak your mind to God; do you really think He doesn't already know it? do you think you'll be informing Him of something He is not aware of?

no, speak your mind, and pursue truth, and wisdom, in love

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:53:30 2011 No.3957809 >>3957797 the heart of man is neither good nor bad. the mind of man is both. if you cant see that then you must be blind. go study some sociology

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:54:30 2011 No.3957817 >>3957798 Your disbelief in God implies a belief in science and scientists say the universe came from nothing or do you not trust science 100%?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:54:30 2011 No.3957820 >>3957808 >do you really think He doesn't already know it? You're right. There's no point in lying to him. I'll just tell him he's a faggot to his face

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:54:30 2011 No.3957821

>>3957729
I can judge my own actions myself, thank you very much. I know when I do wrong and I know when I do right. I apologise to the people I hurt and ask them for forgiveness. If someone helps me, I'll be sure to thank that person. I try not to hate people and when I do hate someone, I'll be sure to have my reasons.

I do not need someone to take the blame, I do not need someone who will forgive me for my actions except for the ones that I have done wrong.

I'll not saying that I am perfect, not at all. All I'm saying is that only I am able to stand for my actions. I will not except that I am just a puppet in some master scheme. I will not except someone I don't know to take the blame for me, and I surely don't want to be "forgiven" by an invisible man in the sky.

No, I don't need a "Holy Redeemer".

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:54:30 2011 No.3957822 >>3957754 good thing He made Himself and His wishes known then, huh

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:54:30 2011 No.3957816 >>3957753 to get into heaven? anything to avoid hell? anything

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:55:30 2011 No.3957826 >>3956340 >"those are just drawings people, they are just stories" >implying bible is more credible than evolution I loled so fucking hard OP -67888578/10

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:56:30 2011 No.3957829 >>3957575 NO BECAUSE FREE WILL Come on man, any good little trained christian will say that within 1 second flat.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:56:30 2011 No.3957831 >>3957764 it's in every roman historian of the period, and the joos too; josephus, tacitus but who cares? it's in the bible, you know, the WORD OF GOD fucking historians, you can't explain that

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:57:30 2011 No.3957833 >>3957771 does the Creator of the universe know for a fact how the universe came to be?

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:57:30 2011 No.3957835
File: 1001 KB, 1920x1200, 1317931080241.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I come to /sci/ to see this shit today? Really?

Where are the people's champions?

Get rid of these religious fucks. Save it for Sunday when I am sleeping, you illiterate assholes!

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:57:30 2011 No.3957837 >>3957809 >hurr durr sociology says "everything is relative" If there's no evil, then why are there people like Jack the Ripper, Ted Bundy, and Hannibal?

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 19:57:30 2011 No.3957840

>>3957790
One possibility is that the universe has no beginning or end. Another possibility is that our universe is inside a much larger universe with much larger beings and we are a science experiment(you can call that scientist God if you want). Another possibility is that our universe is essentially a molecule helping to make up something even larger.

There's nearly an infinite number of possibilities. For anyone to claim that they know for a fact which one is true is fucking stupid with the knowledge and technology we currently have available to us.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:57:30 2011 No.3957841 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:58:30 2011 No.3957842 >>3957775 so, in your world, there is no good and evil, only nature and yet, you personally have experienced both good and evil which would lead a thinking man to think that there might be something happening more than just "nature"

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:58:30 2011 No.3957844 >>3957835 I agree. This thread is full of fail. and not a single modicum of science was given that day

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 19:59:30 2011 No.3957845 >>3957777 wait, i wanted quad 7's dammit i like your style, mr. quads why miss heaven by an inch, when you can miss by 10,000,000 light years?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:00:30 2011 No.3957852 >>3957840 At least you're being open-minded.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:00:30 2011 No.3957853

>>3957791
why wouldn't He be as He says He is?

in your mind, "God" cannot be trusted? cannot be relied upon? is a liar?

what kind of God would that be?

no wonder you don't believe in God...i wouldn't either, if i thought God were like that

luckily for me, and you too, if you choose to become a believer, He isn't

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:01:30 2011 No.3957855

>>3957816

how about i gave up everything to get into heaven.

and then i had to walk through hell.

thats what some feel like..and there are no miracle workers.

im not expecting my life to change tomorrow as it feels like i made my mistake already.
no amount of pleading with an omnipotent god seems to get me anywhere.

i should have more right to not believe than most..

circular argument no?

hope you get my emo'ism

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:01:30 2011 No.3957856

>>3957753
>you should reread scripture with both eyes open

I read how God killed thousands with plagues because he "hardened" the pharao's soul. I read how God watched how the snake doomed mankind. I read how God killed everyone, plants, animals, humans, with a worldwide flood.

God is not good.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:01:30 2011 No.3957857 >>3957809 the heart of man is wicked, and devises more wickedness, continually google search, well, anything, and you will see examples of this oops, our time is up good night, and God bless

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 20:02:30 2011 No.3957858
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>>3957758
>you keep thinking that you know what God knows
No shit. If God is omnipotent then he knows everything. Which also means free will isn't real. They are contradictory concepts. Although someone like you will likely ignore that.

Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:02:30 2011 No.3957862
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Religious candy-asses are the same people who confuse one trillion with one billion.

vis a vis: the US Congress

I'll believe in zombies before I'll believe in your God.

Get out of /sci/ and go fuck yourselves with high torque drill press.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 20:04:30 2011 No.3957866 >>3957817 Not all scientists believe in the same theories. And furthermore most scientists don't put 100% faith in anything because they are fucking idiots.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:05:30 2011 No.3957868 >>3957862 >fuck yourselves with high torque drill press It's very hard to do that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:05:30 2011 No.3957869 >>3957856 i could partly agree, look around you today.. cancer is on the rise but so is the healthcare system. praroah's have moved on since the days of pyramids. anyway let me not get all paranoid on you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:06:30 2011 No.3957871 >>3957790 Yet, you believe for a FACT that God made everything by.... magic? saying a phrase? snapping his fingers? Sorry, believing it came from nothing sounds more plausable.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 20:07:30 2011 No.3957875 >>3957866 meant to say "aren't fucking idiots"

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:08:30 2011 No.3957877 >>3957871 >universe from nothing is more plausible Why? What evidence support your theory?

BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 20:10:30 2011 No.3957883

>>3957877
Well, the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate thus winning the battle against gravity. That implies that if you rewind time back far enough to when all matter was at the same point in space, and then go back 1 more second there would be nothing.

It's not proof. but it is evidence. Much more evidence than what you have to support the idea of your god

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:11:30 2011 No.3957886 >>3957862 >I'll believe in zombies before I'll believe in your God. Jesus stood up again after being in the grave for 3 days, along with tons of people! (Matthew 27:52)

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:11:30 2011 No.3957888 >>3957858 Omnipotence implies spatial and temporal omniscience and omnipresence, but not omniparticipance.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 20:13:30 2011 No.3957894 >>3957883 That was the extremely simplified version by the way... Since you obviously don't know much about any of the popular theories regarding the origins of the universe as we know it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:16:30 2011 No.3957903 >>3957858 there is a very good answer for that. but im not going to tell you. for your own good.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:16:30 2011 No.3957904 File: 64 KB, 600x750, Trolls Are Success.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] You've all been toasting in a troll's bread! Hilarious.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 20:16:30 2011 No.3957906 >>3957903 right....

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 20:17:30 2011 No.3957911 >>3957904 no shit sherlock. As I've already noted, I'm here because I enjoy arguing. Now go point out the obvious somewhere else.

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 20:18:30 2011 No.3957915 I have to go. If this thread is still here in a couple hours I'll be back

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:18:30 2011 No.3957917 >>3957883 They can only see so much with their telescopes. How can they be sure that everything is expanding? Maybe the expansion is happening only in one localized region of the universe.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:21:30 2011 No.3957928 >>3957917 They observed that the galaxy is expanding in all directions.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:29:30 2011 No.3957964 File: 102 KB, 750x600, logical_awesome.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3957928 So, Earth is at the center of the Big Bang?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:29:30 2011 No.3957968 File: 60 KB, 294x361, Good Riddance.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3957915 Good riddance, candy-ass. But next time take your god damned bullshit over to /x/ where it belongs.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 26 20:32:30 2011 No.3957981 File: 104 KB, 347x346, 1318931173341.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >they gave a very convincing story about the theory, but these are just stories the irony

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 22:33:30 2011 No.3958341 >>3957964 No. Where the hell did you get that idea from? Just because we can observe the universe expanding in all directions from earth does not imply we are at the center. How do you keep adding 1 and 1 and getting 3?

>>	BatshitBob !3EE/IxaxOU Wed Oct 26 22:35:30 2011 No.3958345 >>3957968 So the expansion of the universe is a paranormal event? really... what are you doing here in my /sci/?

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/sci/ - Science & Math