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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3929348 No.3929348 [Reply] [Original]

What causes condensation trails to look like this /sci/?

I hadn't ever seen them look like this until recently. What are they putting in the fuel that has this effect?

>> No.3929356

Gas from the engine cools as it meets the air.

>> No.3929355

wind

>> No.3929360

A cross? Obviously our Lord Jesus Christ.

>> No.3929359

The government.

>> No.3929371

supercooled air that suddenly finds a nucleation center to form clouds...

>> No.3929376

brainwashing chemicals

for brainwashing

>> No.3929379

>>3929356
Why does the sun not heat it up as quickly as it normally does? I mean most condensation trails I see dissipate extremely quickly. These condensation trails lead me to believe that either the planes were flying in those specific patterns all at the exact same time or that those trails are persisting much longer than I am used to.

What is in the fuel that keeps it cool compared to most fuels I have seen being used by aircraft?

>> No.3929387

Gasoline burns to produce water and carbon dioxide, it's water vapor, go back to middle school.

Wait before you do let me tell you something else I learned in middle school, metal expands and becomes ductile when heated. Now off you pop.

>> No.3929392

>>3929379
ever seen snow? sometimes the air high above you is cold.

>> No.3929396

>>3929371
How could the condensation point be low enough in those exact areas to create persistent clouds when it appears that there is not a single other cloud formation in the sky? Does the super cooled air stay cool, despite ambient atmosphere conditions, because of an additive in the fuel?

These particular condensation trails persisted for many hours after the planes had passed.

>> No.3929403

>>3929392
How can it be cold in those EXACT locations and nowhere else in the sky? If the air had reached a sufficient saturation point with sufficient cooling to precipitate cloud formation then wouldn't there be more clouds in the sky than just the condensation trails left by the planes?

>> No.3929405

>>3929356
>>3929379
>>3929387
>implying its not water from the air
>implying that amount of vapor can ever be stored in a skyship

>> No.3929413

>>3929405
Use a dictionary to hold down the switch on your kettle and watch how much steam comes out before it boils down completely. Gas has far more volume than liquid.

>> No.3929414

>>3929403
if you throw a rock into the air high enough and fast enough, it would make that trail. clouds dont form unless you give them a neuclius to form around.

>> No.3929421

>>3929387
Why does this vapor persist in a condensation state when it is obvious that ambient atmosphere conditions are not capable of allowing the same formation of condensation from other water vapor in the air?

>> No.3929425

>>3929413
>implying i didnt imply it is in liquid form

>> No.3929435

>>3929414
The trail from the rock would persist for 2-3 hours afterwards?

>> No.3929439

>>3929421
at some temperatures material can exist as gas and liquid and will only shift between the 2 if it gets /loses energy.

>> No.3929455

>>3929435
in the right conditions, and if it is a large enough trail.

>> No.3929459

>>3929425
Originally it is gaseous which disperses it over a wide area making it more visible.

>> No.3929461
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3929461

This seems like a huge amount of water vapor being produced by those engines. When I look at the combustion process of typical jet fuel:

2C8H18 + 25O2 ~> 16CO2 + 18H2O

It makes me believe that with that much water vapor being pushed out the tail pipe of a jet it would seem like the CO2 levels in the air would be much higher than is observed. Can someone clear up this discrepancy for me?

>> No.3929464

>>3929461
the water does not come from the jet, it comes from the air.

>> No.3929468
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3929468

>>3929421
>>3929396
when the air condenses the latent heat of condensation and even fusion( on a phase diagram, ice is not far from vapor at those low pressures and temperatures) + the lower partial pressure of water vapor create a local equilibrium where the air is not saturated anymore

>> No.3929471

>>3929461
If humidity is high then the extra humidity will push it to the point where it all suddenly forms into water droplets.

>> No.3929481
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3929481

>>3929464
Oh I see....

So if I had an analysis of the air after the planes had gone by and left these condensation trails that seems to indicate certain particulate anomalies that hadn't been observed before would I be right in speculating that those particulates were simply perturbed by the airplane itself which caused the results to be skewed? Kinda like testing the air for dust before and after a dust storm?

>> No.3929517
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3929517

Furthermore, would I be correct in speculating that this particular commercial jet is just testing out the aerial maneuverability of this particular model? The pattern of U shaped turns seems to indicate a test taking place. A test to see if an airplane is indeed capable of turning in air.

>> No.3929539

I take it none of the amazing scientists on this board wish to further my knowledge of atmospheric happenings. Well thanks for clearing up what little you did. I might post again in the future when there are people more willing to discuss this subject.

>> No.3929545

>>3929539
what didnt we answer?

>> No.3929552

>>3929545
Why do atmospheric particulate tests seem to show particulate anomalies after a plane producing a condensation trail has passed? Experimental evidence seems to indicate an increased amount of heavy element presence in the air.

>> No.3929559

>>>/x/

>> No.3929560

>>3929552
interesting, whats the standard deviation of those measurements?

>> No.3929582
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3929582

>>3929560
Several thousand times especially for barium and aluminum. The nearest industrial facility that might emit aluminum or barium byproducts into the air is several hundred miles away.

>> No.3929589

>>3929559
This is a science thread. Fuck off back to a homework thread.

>> No.3929602

>>3929589
>implying this thread isn't on here at regular intervals
>implying it doesn't end up being turned into pseudoscience by sheeple

>> No.3929608

>>3929582
>standard deviation
>Several thousand times
wat? what does that mean?

>> No.3929619

>>3929608
It means OP is a fag.

>> No.3929621

>>3929608
It means the deviation from the normal collected values is several thousand times larger. The standard deviation in these tests is probably ~100-200 parts per billion. Sorry for my confusion. I was confused by the term 'standard deviation'.

>> No.3929624

>>3929602
Please show one instance of pseudoscience in this thread.

>> No.3929628

>>3929621
if the stranded deviation is so much larger, how can you conclude it has anything to do with the trails? wont it be less than when there are no-trails on some days then?

>> No.3929639

>>3929628
The standard deviation is ~100-200 parts per billion for each particulate measured. The experimental results showed a 15,000,000 parts per billion measurement for aluminum and a 560,000 parts per billion measurement for barium. I don't understand how this math shows a higher standard deviation than observed deviation. Explain?

>> No.3929640

OP, none of these "scientists" are going to answer your question. The reason being they're highschool kids or college drop outs who think they're experts because they've taken basic classes and seen a BBC documentary. If there are any real scientists on this board, they're either going to ignore you or lie to you because you're too close to the truth. You're asking the right questions, and they don't like what you're going to find.

>> No.3929646

>>3929640
I think OP already has the answers to the questions he is asking but prefers trapping the people would deny those conclusions in a scientific debate that will inevitably lead everyone to the same conclusions.

>> No.3929667

This shit is fucking scary I have heard people talk about chemtrails before but never had anyone show an air test.

fucking 15M parts per billion aluminum? oh my god

>> No.3929669

>>3929639
you know, I am pretty sure aircraft are made of aluminum, and there is this thing called friction, that causes so called "wear and tear" ....

moron.

>> No.3929672
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3929672

>>3929669
Armchair science at its finest.

>> No.3929677

>>3929639
wait, you did one test?

>> No.3929680

>>3929672
morons at their finest.

>> No.3929681

>>3929403
because all the other air in the sky hasn't shifted from warm to cold so rapidly

>> No.3929687

>>3929669
How many moles of aluminum material must an airplane skeleton lose before it becomes structurally unstable? It seems like an airplane that is saturating the air with a 15/100 ratio of aluminum would be deteriorating at a rate such that it wouldn't be able to fly for long.

>> No.3929695

>>3929680
No, seriously. You think an aircraft losing aluminum due to friction is the cause of a 15/100 ratio detection?

>> No.3929699

>>3929677
I had a laboratory do the test. It cost $400 to have the test done so it isn't something I can do often. However, the lab allowed me to corroborate their other client's tests against photo evidence of airplanes producing condensation trails at specific times. The evidences were heavily correlated.

However, the lab would not allow me to copy those documents so this is only word of mouth and not concrete evidence.

>> No.3929715

>>3929699
1 test + word of mouth = SCIENCE!

>> No.3929725

>>3929699
Think about it. Why wouldn't the law allow you to copy those documents? Do they know something we don't? Why were they trying to stop you from telling others? Keep asking questions, man. It's not illegal...yet.

>> No.3929731

>>3929715
Can you provide the funds I need to continue the tests so that we can clear this matter up? I could only afford one test in the name of science.

>> No.3929740

>>3929539
>I take it none of the amazing scientists on this board

You're on 4chan, you dipshit.

>> No.3929747

Hey guys, I did a test yesterday on the physics lab, where my thermocouple went crazy and was shown an increase in temperature, despite the PT100 not being connected.
Therefore, I created energy out of nothing. Beat that thermodynamics!

And no, I neither repeat the test nor looked for mistakes.


Yes, that's how stupid you sound.


Do the test a thousand times, have control fucking samples, and then we will talk.

>> No.3929753

>>3929725
I was told that I wouldn't be allowed to copy those tests under direct authority of homeland security. They told me that it was a matter of national security to provide copies of air quality tests that could possibly be passed on to groups of people wanting to harm the U.S.

However, this doesn't make much since considering someone with enough money can order as many tests as they wish at any time that they wish. I believe the monetary requirement might be a deterrent. I am certainly confused by this.

>> No.3929754

>>3929747
>hasn't been paying attention

>> No.3929764

>>3929359
This.

>> No.3929767

>>3929747
1,000 tests will cost $400,000. Looks like I am going to need to setup a fund or ask for research funding. Which institution in the United States do you think I should approach to ask for funding regarding air samples in relation to air plane condensation trails? Do you think I can get a government grant for this research?

>> No.3929769

>>3929753
Of course it doesn't make sense. When homeland security gets involved, you know some shit is going down. Be very very skeptical, friend. You're onto something big here. You may have the proof they don't want you to find.

>> No.3929786

>>3929769
Any clue what the consequences for this discovery might bring?

>> No.3929800

>>3929786
To be honest, government probably doesn't see you as much of a threat right now. But if you keep asking questions, wouldn't be surprised if you disappeared one day.

>> No.3929803

>>3929767

I really don't know how things work in the US of A, but I am willing to bet that at least one institution (read: university) is interested in alien particles in the atmosphere.

Just ask yourself, how useful is to have this sample analysed, when you don't know how the air 1 mile ,away from the sample point, is?

>> No.3929807

>>3929803
Not only are universities interested, they do experiments like this all the fucking time. No idea what OP is on about.

>> No.3929856

>>3929807
Can you point me to some of the papers they have published regarding this?