/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3906447]

How do you feel about this occupy wall street movement?

Frankly I think they really do have a point and apparently Ben Bernanke, the chairman of the federal reserve, agrees. If one of the hearts of all evil think the protests are reasonable, understandable and were foreseeable, I see no reason to defend wall street other than being a delusional corporate lap dog defending a branch of society he doesn't even belong to or profit from.

You can see the video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVXEYoo46ZY

How do you think this is going to turn out? Do you agree with the protesters?

[Anonymous No.3906454]

I don't really care for protesting unless it's a union/workers strike or something. Whether it's the Tea Party or the Occupy Wall Street.

[Anonymous No.3906460]

>>3906447

Agree with occupy wallstreet and financial reform, until I get job in banking/finance then fuck those silly plebs..

[Anonymous No.3906464]

Bunch of whiners.

[Anonymous No.3906469]

>>3906460

Ahahaha same here. I support whatever is expedient for my present situation. If I'm broke, I'll support objectives that can help me not-be-broke. If I'm rich, I'll rally for low taxes and whatnot.

If I'm a veteran, I'll rally for veterans causes. If I'm anti-war, I'll stage anti-war protests.

I'll do whatever helps me personally. Who cares about intellectual debates and working out principles.

[Anonymous No.3906474]

It's more of a party full of people dissatisfied with their lives because they're lazy degenerates.

[Anonymous No.3906479]

>>3906454
>unless it's a union/workers strike or something.

The people there are ordinary workers and college students who are concerned about their future and the future of our democracy. That's why they like to label themselves as "the 99%".

>Whether it's the Tea Party or the Occupy Wall Street

The goals of the tea party and occupy wall street differ extremely. The tea party are a bunch of brainwashed crazy angry rednecks who get all their information from FOX news and actually demonstrate against their own financial interest because they have no idea about politics or recent issues. Wouldn't you agree?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y

[Anonymous No.3906488]

If you hear any of these arguments, take a shot!

1. Well my uncle's neighbor's son got rich from hard work so obviously that proves rich people work extra hard to earn their place in society!
2. It's okay that the people responsible for a worldwide economic crisis that cost millions of jobs and destroyed countless lives got bailed out with tax payer money so they can continue what they were doing and use your money for multi-million bonuses since they are "job providers".
3. I can't conceive of class warfare so obviously those poor people are just lazy and really need to get a job at McDonalds!
4. I base my political views on broad generalizations of people, mindsets that would fit right into the cold war era and ignore petty things like hard statistical evidence.
5. I ignore every single statistic that shows that the lower and middle class have been suffering from the greed of the top 0.1% for decades.
6. You are a socialist if you think that 24 million people who can't find a job, 50 people who can't see a doctor when they're sick, 57 million who can't even feed themselves without help and 15 million families who owe more on their mortgage than what it's worth is a bad thing.
7. All protesters are "dirty far left hippie liberal marxist socialist progressive anarchist atheist satanist elitist hypocritical hipster treehugger college kids fighting for communism" who need to be beaten down by the riot police immediately.
8. Only idiots agree with the protesters! Including famous dirty leftist hippies like Ben Bernanke, chairman of the federal reserve, who admitted that their protests are justified, understandable and were foreseeable.

[Anonymous No.3906494]

>>3906488
9. Damn those dirty hippies really need to get a job at Burger King and stop complaining!
10. Everyone in the lower classes is a racial minority so they don't deserve anything. No exceptions.
11. I myself claim that I pulled myself up by my bootstraps with no evidence or even enough money to qualify me as the top 20% in society.
12. Protesters are so stupid, I am far superior sitting behind my computer screen and defending a small branch of society I don't even belong to or profit from.
13. The protesters are hypocritical if they protest the influence on corporations on our government when they use any modern technology or clothing of any kind.
14. If those college kids didn't go after worthless degrees then they wouldn't be in trouble!
15. I eat healthy and exercise so if anyone suffers medical bills from cancer or injury it's their own fault!
16. No, I am not a corporate lapdog! I am a true patriotic capitalist!

[Anonymous No.3906496]

MOST of the people there have already parked their money with Wall Street.

MOST of the people are ineffectual hypocrites, therefore.

IF you want to protest Wall Street, then divest your portfolio and stop looking like a stupid faggot.

[Anonymous No.3906499]

>>3906488
>2.

The bailout was there to save the financial structure of America not the banks, the banks were just a necessary part of that structure. The banks paid back what they got and more, the gov. made profits off of it.

goof

[Anonymous No.3906501]

>>3906460
I guess I'm either support them a little bit or am ambivalent to them.

I don't get why people who make under 200k are protesting the protesters. Do they think that a CEO is going to see how much they support Wall Street and give them a prize?

[Anonymous No.3906508]

>>3906499
>The banks paid back what they got and more, the gov. made profits off of it.
Negative, the loans were made at 0% interest, but to make the loans the Gov't sold bonds at 3% interest. The banks then used the loaned money to buy said bonds.

They still hold those bonds. So now they are earning 3% on money we loaned them while we earn zero.

[Anonymous No.3906548]

>>3906499


THEY TOOK THE MONEY AND SAT ON IT YOU FUCKING IDIOT! THEY DIDN'T INJECT IT INTO THE MARKETS LIKE YOU IDIOTS THOUGHT THEY WOULD.

[Anonymous No.3906555]

The problem with the economy, and society in general, is that it has become too top heavy. Almost all the wealth and power has become concentrated in the hands of the wealthy few. Yet when normal people point this out they get chastised for being lazy or ignorant or somehow unworthy then are promptly ignored. That's what these protests are about.

[Anonymous No.3906572]

>>3906508

gov made money off at least 8 banks that got loaned, and is going to continue to make more

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/07/08/surprise-the-big-bad-bailout-is-paying-off/

[Anonymous No.3906576]

>>3906548

bank lending is up.

too bad you don't read the news

[Anonymous No.3906577]

>>3906474
>warm bed
>food
>internet
what sort of beta faggot is content with that?

[Anonymous No.3906587]

>>3906447

13billion profit made off of Citigroup

derr banks are bad...oh wait i'm an idiot occupy wallstreet uninformed nut

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jan/26/citigroup-stake-sold-by-us-government

[Anonymous No.3906596]

>>3906494

>14. If those college kids didn't go after worthless degrees then they wouldn't be in trouble!

As a physics major, I can't help but feel this way about people who are majoring in 17th English Lit

[Anonymous No.3906601]

Of course I agree with the overall message. But I don't know what they plan to do, which is why I'm skeptical.

[Anonymous No.3906604]

>>3906587
>Most of the big banks have repaid the government funds they received under the Capital Purchase Program (CPP), the pillar of TARP under which Treasury bought preferred shares in the nation's banks. Enough so that, combined with dividends and sales of warrants, Treasury has declared that taxpayers have earned a profit on the CPP. Thus far, $245 billion has gone out, and $255 billion in repayments, interest and warrants has come back,

if only yyou tards read some facts, this was in July ^

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daniel-gross/banks-pay-back-tarp-funds-borrowing-treasury-205658852.h
tml

[Anonymous No.3906605]

>>3906587

>Talk about an anomaly in the banking world that actually makes tax payers money
>Ignores the billions of tax payer dollars that were given to banks that just sat on the money

True genius.

[Anonymous No.3906623]

New Yorker reporting in.

Today, I was walking home from a public swimming pool when I noticed a large crowd on the other side of the street. This was at 6th and houston (some distance away from wall street). At first I actually thought it was a police parade, seeing as atleast 50 policemen were walking infront of the procession, and a long string of police men on motorcycles were riding along with this crowd. However, after seeing several wacky signs and costumes and an inflated spiderman, it become clear this was osw. As I gawked at this crowded walking uptown, I noticed that the protest contained thousands of people walking in a long, narrow column, spreading out over a few blocks, with no end in sight. On the other side of the street, there was a street fair, leading to plenty of New Yorkers looking to see what all of this noise and hub bub was on the other side of street. Some were laughing, I heard one woman say "do they know that this isn't wall street?". Others showed solidarity with the movement, and cheered them on.


Conclusion:
occupy wall street should change its name to occupy the whole fucking city.

[Anonymous No.3906634]

>COMMUNIST HIPPIE LIBERALS WHINING

>implying this isn't the beginning of a global revolution.

deal with it.

[Anonymous No.3906646]

>>3906604
But the bonds are still in the possession of the banks, so overall they made a pittance back and eventually will end up costing us even more.

It would be pure profit had they not sold bonds, but alas...

[Anonymous No.3906647]

>>3906623
>and an inflated spiderman
Wait, what?

[Anonymous No.3906659]

>>3906508
Do you have a source on this?

[Anonymous No.3906660]

>>3906605

refer to this
>>3906604

254 billion lent, 255 received back

more to come.

bank lending also up, where do you guys get your factS? fox news? fucken idiots

[Anonymous No.3906661]

>>3906623
yeah, the police won't let anyone on Wall Street who doesn't have work credentials.

The actual sidewalks on Wall Street are public property.

[Anonymous No.3906674]

>>3906447

What exactly is "the point"? Everyone i ask seems to get lost in "they have most the money in the world", "i have debts because i studied" etc. etc..

Can anyone explain what exactly their problem is?

[Anonymous No.3906696]

>>3906479

> Underaged
> "I never voted for that health care thing he is doin' "

Even mentioning the tea party should be a bannable offense.

[Anonymous No.3906703]

>>3906674

Corruption in government, class warfare, private interests controlling policy-making, improper spending, ect.

[Anonymous No.3906723]

>>3906703

> Corruption in government
Ok, but shouldn't they be in Washington in that case?

[Anonymous No.3906729]

>>3906660

none of those are true

one person being rich and another being poor isn't classwarfare.

gov. corruption is at a minimum, we have a black president

improper spending? lol are you an economist? didn't think so.

[Anonymous No.3906737]

>>3906729
> gov. corruption is at a minimum, we have a black president
Why would you put both of those things in the same sentence?

[Anonymous No.3906739]

>>3906674
That there is a huge wealth gap which is directly related to 30 years of historically low tax rates on the wealthiest 1%. [the capital gains tax on the wealthiest Americans should be raised to what it was in the 1950s (+5%)].
That banks illegally foreclose on people's homes on a large scale knowing that home-owners can't afford to retain an attorney [they should be prosecuted for this by gov agencies]
That the private student loan industry is a sophisticated scam [the industry isn't regulated. You can't declare bankruptcy with a student loan but there is no reasonable payment system that has been developed to allow people to pay back their student loans]

[Anonymous No.3906745]

>>3906723
Well the guys who decided to start it didn't live there, so...it become known as wall street. Still gets the same message across to everybody.

[Anonymous No.3906746]

>>3906674

END THE FEDERAL RESERVE AND FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING SYSTEMS.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyTlyHbvnbk

[Anonymous No.3906755]

>>3906723
There is a protest in Washington called Occupy D.C. There are protests in all major cities and many of the smaller ones.

[Anonymous No.3906756]

>>3906739
>That there is a huge wealth gap which is directly related to 30 years of historically low tax rates

No there are just fewer people who want to be rich and more who are content with middle-class poor lifestyles, hence 1% vs 99% instead of how it used to be before where everyone wanted to be rich

but once you get to a certain standard of living you get big diminishing returns on income...gotta work way harder and you dont get much bang back...so hence fewer ppl want to be rich, thus only 1% are rich

[Anonymous No.3906760]

>>3906739
Anyone have the picture of the graph of taxes in america throughout the decades

[Anonymous No.3906762]

>>3906756
Welcome to the conservative party! Please pick up your Reganomics guide book and trickle down bumper stickers at the door.

[Anonymous No.3906763]

Changes need to be made. Badly.

But the protesters are largely attention-whoring hippies with no useful suggestions.

[Anonymous No.3906764]

>>3906739
>That the private student loan industry is a sophisticated scam
I realize that poor kids are trying to go to college to make their lives better, but it is not our fault that 18 year olds get scammed.
If they don't want to get scammed on student loans, maybe they should go to college and get educated about business first?

[Anonymous No.3906765]

>>3906746

idiot detected ^
they tried that in the past, bank runs lead to recessions and depressions.

Every developed country has a fed reserve because they are necessary in a global economy,

stop watching zeitgeist and listening to ron paul, and go read some real books

[Anonymous No.3906770]

>>3906739

Wow, I should have known I'd get an answer on /sci/. That sounds reasonable. I'm not a US-citizen so I'm not too well-informed about everything "over there". Thanks for clearing things up.

Still, I'm sure people who protest there and know what is going on and especially what is going wrong are in the minority, judging from the videos on youtube etc..

[Anonymous No.3906776]

>>3906605
You're the true genius. Read the rest of the thread. We made money off several banks. http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/26/news/economy/tarp_profit.fortune/
Do you even know what a fucking anomaly is?

[Anonymous No.3906784]

the more i read about wall street the more awesome it sounds and the dumber poor ppl sound

[Anonymous No.3906791]

>>3906755
Ausfag here, I live in Melbourne. There's an Occupy Melbourne protest going on here, and similar deals in a few of the other major cities, although they're not even on the same scale as the ones in the US. I passed the Melbourne one today, there was a couple hundred people at least, and some 50ish are sleeping there tonight according to the news. Apparently, it's spread all over the world.

Resentment with the current state of affairs is not unique to the US of A, you know.

[Anonymous No.3906794]

>>3906756

Denmark has around 50-60 percent tax on the really rich, around 30 percent on the middle class. Denmark has the highest level of income equality and the happiest people. Do you have anything to back up what you said?

[Anonymous No.3906796]

>>3906765
Have you ever asked yourself why bank runs can happen in the first place? Does it have anything to do with Banks being greedy as shit and lending out or speculating with more money than they actually have?

I think it does. Central banks are a fucking scam.

[Anonymous No.3906806]

>>3906765
>stop watching zeitgeist and listening to ron paul, and go read some real books

I read Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson. They seemed to know a lot more about central banks and their power than you.

[Anonymous No.3906821]

>>3906806
>read Thomas Jefferson

you mean you read a quote of his in a zeitgeist clip.


I'm sure our global world and Thomas Jefferson's horse-and-wagon world are exactly the same and his opinions still matter...America didn't even have a central bank when he was alive lol

[Anonymous No.3906833]

>>3906756
A well capitalized farmer can survive three years of drought in a row to make massive profits in the fourth year. A poorly capitalized farmer cannot do this. The more money you have, the more risk you can handle. The more risk you can handle, the greater the likelihood that you can increase your wealth because you can take advantage of opportunities.

[Anonymous No.3906839]

>>3906821
>America didn't even have a central bank when he was alive lol

Exactly....exactly.

[Anonymous No.3906844]

>>3906821
His opinions that the world is ruled by the banking elite is still very much relevant to today.

[Anonymous No.3906845]

>>3906746
holy shit you do not understand economics. this would fucking ruin us.

Yeah there needs to be some regulation on financial markets. The best idea I've seen so far is to treat the stability financial market collectively as a commons. I don't think people would object to Wall Street making billions of dollars if they weren't so unconcerned about the markets tanking.

[Anonymous No.3906846]

>>3906794

come talk to me when your GDP is 5x higher. Until then you can't compare to America.

How is it unequal when only 1% are on the extreme fringe, and the other 99% all fall together in a similar distribution?
Its not like 99% are african poor, they are middle class ish...thats as equal as you can get until everyone is middle class...

[Anonymous No.3906853]

When shit's on fire, charismatic people have more power than those with knowledge.

[Anonymous No.3906856]

>>3906739
>>That there is a huge wealth gap which is directly related to 30 years of historically low tax rates on the wealthiest 1%. [the capital gains tax on the wealthiest Americans should be raised to what it was in the 1950s (+5%)].

PROTIP: The capital gains tax on "the 1%" is currently 35%. They pay the overwhelming majority of taxes in this country.

>>That banks illegally foreclose on people's homes on a large scale knowing that home-owners can't afford to retain an attorney [they should be prosecuted for this by gov agencies]

There have been foreclosure shenanigans, mainly related to the banks not following the law correctly in creating a proper paper trail, but most foreclosures are legit; that is, the homeowner stops paying and the bank goes to get its investment back, just as its supposed to work.

>That the private student loan industry is a sophisticated scam [the industry isn't regulated. You can't declare bankruptcy with a student loan but there is no reasonable payment system that has been developed to allow people to pay back their student loans]

This part is largely true.

[Anonymous No.3906857]

>>3906846
Implying there's 3 classes of wealth......

[Anonymous No.3906859]

>>3906739
How many illegal foreclosures do you think happened out of curiosity?

[Anonymous No.3906862]

>>3906846
You may not have noticed but America's debt to GDP ratio is 1:1 now. America is nothing special in the economic world anymore and they are simply sustaining, or attempting to, off their reserve currency status.

If America couldn't bully the world with the petro-dollar then we would have gone the way of the Wiemar a while ago.

[Anonymous No.3906868]

>>3906859
Probably more than 80% of the foreclosures in the past 3 years have been illegal considering the banks that foreclosed on those houses didn't own the mortgages anymore. That was the entire point of the housing bubble.

[Anonymous No.3906869]

>>3906853
>>3906853

This. I have a bad feeling for our future to be honest.

[Anonymous No.3906875]

>>3906796
>why bank runs happen?

because if you don't have a central bank to guarantee deposits, then a bank run will destroy your financial sector like it did in the past...

they happen because of group psychology, it doesn't take any material problem to cause it, just massive hysteria regarding a rumor is enough to make people lose confidence, plus if there is no central bank, people are more likely to lose confidence because no one is guaranteeing their deposits.

theres a reason every developed country and most developing countries use central banks, they serve to control inflation, interest rates, exchange rates, and act as a lender of last resorts to banks...without them you have no monetary policy and can't do shit except increase or decrease taxes....

not to mention banks will be super anal about lending, no one will lend to anyone unless they have huge credit, assets and income....so the economy and unemployment will suffer even more...

[Anonymous No.3906876]

>>3906868
80%??????????????????????????????????????
Where the fuck did you get that number?
Citation desperately needed.

[Anonymous No.3906888]

>>3906806
Did you selectively read Thomas Jefferson's quotes?
If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people of England are, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, and give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses; And the sixteen being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they do now, on oatmeal and potatoes, have no time to think, no means of calling the mismanagers to account; But be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains around the necks of our fellow sufferers; And this is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for a second, that second for a third, and so on 'til the bulk of society is reduced to mere automatons of misery, to have no sensibilities left but for sinning and suffering...and the forehorse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression.

[Anonymous No.3906893]

>>3906862
>America is nothing special in the economic world anymore

still have the largest economy on earth, they can print money anytime they want, most of their currency is held as debt by foreign nations, which means inflation doesn't even matter, it'll just make it easier for them to pay off their debts while China and India and Europe will lose money on their loans lol

gg scrubs, USA USA USA

and I'm canadian btw

[Anonymous No.3906896]

>>3906876
I got it from understanding what exactly happened during the housing credit bubble. There is no citation for an exact number but there has certainly been citations of some of the activity going on out there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-02/bank-of-america-shares-slump-on-concern-of-lawsuit-by-u-s-f
inance-agency.html

The entire housing bubble was only possible after lending banks were allowed to bundle and sell mortgages. Then after those mortgages exploded they tried and ARE foreclosing on those houses of which they long ago sold the mortgages to other investors.

80% is a conservative estimate considering how far reaching the CDO market really was.

[Anonymous No.3906901]

>>3906846
>laughable debt
>37th in healthcare
>highest costing healthcare in the world
>44million without healthcare
>44 thousand people die a year because no healthcare
>17th in education
>college is expensive and isn't free
>corrupt government
>extreme economic inequality

[Anonymous No.3906903]

>>3906853
>implying you'll listen to people who lack the ability to communicate their ideas effectively

[Anonymous No.3906904]

>>3906893
China has the largest economy on Earth. America has the largest 'sell China products to people with credit cards' economy on Earth.

[Anonymous No.3906906]

>>3906888

debt doesn't matter when your GDP is so fucken high and your citizens are rich relative to the rest of the world

plus most their debt is held by China, a couple years inflation will take care of it easy, chinese lose money, America pays its debt easier...

they'll never default, they can always print more, inflation isn't a problem since most of their currency is held around the world and the US dollar is basically the reserve currency of developing and developed nations...

[Anonymous No.3906911]

>>3906488
>>3906494
Did anyone actually read this?

It helps not to use arguments that are on a "if you use this argument you don't get the point" list.

[Anonymous No.3906913]

>Enjoy electing more people who think in terms of only 4 years.
>Enjoy getting your information from FOX news, no wait, I'm not a huge raging faggot, FROM ANY NEWS SOURCE THATS ON TV. Its fucking designed to be entertainment you niggers.
>Enjoy expressing your political points of views to other people, even though they don't give a shit about what you think, and they are just waiting for their turn to give their point of view. Its a fucking circle jerk, your not changing anyones mind about a certain view on something, and you have NEVER changed someones mind on political view points, I guarentee it. Keep your fucking opinions to yourself.

inb4 some english lit. major/autismal fuck comes in and points out that I misspelled words, and used incorrect punctuation.

[Anonymous No.3906915]

1. it is definitely time for revolution.
2. it's going to get nasty before it's over.

[Anonymous No.3906916]

>>3906896
From that article, they're suing because, "The FHFA has been demanding refunds from banks for loans sold to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that were based on false or missing information about borrowers and properties. " Not over illegal foreclosures so I don't see your point.

[Anonymous No.3906920]

>>3906906
Most of the U.S debt is owed to the private Federal Reserve, NOT CHINA.

You also have an extremely flawed idea of how inflation manifests itself and what impact it has.

[Anonymous No.3906922]

>>3906904

Its only a matter of time before Chinese start consuming

they wont be able to consume on the same level as Americans but they will start...

products are irrelevant, consumption is key...
the supply is here, its everywhere, what makes a good economy is high consumption, which depends on good income levels, which depend on high consumption

we have the supply and the infrastructures in place...the reason china's economy is #2 is because they lack consumption and good incomes...

[Anonymous No.3906925]

>>3906903

Dudes shouting stuff that look good and have a nice voice do the job quite well. Just look at the youtube videos that were posted here. Everybody's chanting and repeating.

[Anonymous No.3906927]

>>3906911
No one read it because you're making huge, stupid over-generalizations. Now go away, no one cares what you have to say.

[Anonymous No.3906936]

>>3906922

They already do consume. Look at Apple brand sales over there.

[Anonymous No.3906938]

>>3906916
They are suing because lending banks that had sold off their mortgages as securities falsified documents to make it look like they still had the rights to seize those properties and re-sell them. They did this to try and stay liquid after the housing credit bubble burst. It didn't work and we had to bail them out anyways but they can't take back the fact that they tried.

[Anonymous No.3906942]

>>3906927
No one cares what you think either. See >>3906913

[Anonymous No.3906944]

Fucking hell, where are the economists on this thread? This isn't /sci/, it's /conclusions I draw from random factoids without any explanation/.

[Anonymous No.3906959]

>>3906922
It won't happen like that. China's economy will collapse before the Western Economies but not too far apart. It will happen so fast that it seems like every economy on the planet is tanking but, the final nail in the coffin will happen in China. That doesn't take away from the fact that China is more prepared for an economic collapse though. They have a shit load of Gold, Silver, Copper and Aluminum stored up in preparation. They aren't stupid.

[Anonymous No.3906962]

Come on people! Lets get some more opinions in this thread! Ones that no one cares about except for yourself. I Iove seeing people get all upset because someone won't share the same view point as them.

[Anonymous No.3906963]

>>3906920

Most of that domestic debt is social security which has a surplus account.

If inflation occurs its easier to pay debts. Nothing strange here. Debtors benefit, issuers suffer.

[Anonymous No.3906961]

>>3906938
No, because they made it look like they could repay it.
``Defendants falsely represented that the underlying mortgage loans complied with certain underwriting standards and guidelines, including representations that significantly overstated the ability of the borrowers to repay their mortgage loans. These representations were material to the GSEs, as reasonable investors, and their falsity violates (the law) and constitutes negligent misrepresentation, common law fraud, and aiding and abetting fraud,'' the FHFA said in the suit against Merrill Lynch

If you find an article or anything that mentions foreclosures, I'll happily change my stance on this point.

[Anonymous No.3906969]

>>3906942
See another post by you that will go largely unnoticed?
No thanks.

[Anonymous No.3906973]

>>3906944
I understand economics. What do you want to know?

[Anonymous No.3906984]

>>3906963
No it isn't. Most of that domestic debt is in the form of treasury notes that the Federal Reserve took in exchange for giving out treasury permission to print their own currency so they can spend it.

Most of the debt is pure and simple principal and interest paid directly to the Federal Reserve Bank. It has nothing to do with social security but that unfunded liability is also a huge problem.

[Anonymous No.3906987]

>>3906969
Good one man!!!1!!! Could you share some more points of view you have with me. I'm extremely interested, and I'm sure everyone else here is too! (teheheheheh, i love to use ! alot, o me hahah,;) ;0: ;0:)):):)))))))

[Anonymous No.3906994]

>>3906938
Deleted my other post cause I wanted to add something.
I think this is what you're thinking of, http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-06-04/wall_street/29974919_1_countrywide-military-families-
credit-scores
but the article you linked is actually because they made it seem like those people could repay their mortages when they couldn't.

[Anonymous No.3906996]

On topic: Shit's going down in Rome right now at the local OWS demonstration.

These guys are not joking. They are angry as fuck.

>Violence has broken out in Rome as tens of thousands nicknamed "the indignant" have marched in European cities in protest against capitalism and austerity measures.

>As the "Occupy Wall Street" protests took place across the globe on Saturday, some protesters in Rome smashed shop windows, torched cars and attacked news crews.

>Black smoke billowed into the air in downtown Rome as a small group of violent protesters broke away from the main demonstration. They smashed car windows, set vehicles on fire and assaulted two news crews of Sky Italia, the TV station reported. Others burned Italian and EU flags.

And I'm telling you, they are NOT "dirty far left hippie liberal marxist socialist progressive anarchist atheist satanist elitist hypocritical hipster treehugger college kids fighting for communism".

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/10/2011101515123592784.html

[Anonymous No.3906999]

>>3906915
I've heard a man dying of cancer defend the right of billionaires to get listed on multiple organ donation registries (effectively line jumping). This man had been denied a bone marrow transplant because it was considered "experimental" (but already known to be quite effective). He blamed himself for being "lazy" even though he couldn't get better insurance because (back then) insurance companies could deny you coverage if you had had cancer as a child (which he had).

A large minority of people have a cognitive bias which leads them to believe it is heroic to be taken advantage of and not complain. Most of our police and armed forces are made up of these people. This is why any revolution would be a right-wing revolution.

[Anonymous No.3907002]

>>3906944

debt doesn't matter once the economy picks up, America's gdp is so high they'll be able to repay it with tax revenue easy...once the economy picks up.

debt is a long term problem, for the next couple years they should focus on stimulus spending on proper infrastructure that will create jobs...once the unemployment rate is down then you hike up taxes on the rich and pay your debts easy...the stimulus might even inflate prices which will increase tax revenue more and make it easier to pay off debts

[Anonymous No.3907012]

>>3906994
That isn't what I pointed out. It doesn't matter if those people could pay the mortgage or not. The banks that originally issued those loans bundled the repayment of those loans into securities and sold them to other people. They didn't have the legal right to foreclose on those houses because they didn't own the mortgages anymore. They still tried using falsified documents.

[Anonymous No.3907013]

Do any of you know what happened in Greece to get them in this shit hole?
They did exactly what these people are asking for in America. High taxes paired with high benefits. If you get one thing from my post:
THE NUMBER 1 REASON FOR GREECE'S DEBT PROBLEMS WAS TAX EVASION.

[Anonymous No.3907019]

>>3907002
The economy, in any semblance that it exists now, will never recover. Never.

[Anonymous No.3907021]

>>3906922
We're consuming privacy at a faster rate than ever before.

When will peak privacy come and lead back to the dark ages?

[Anonymous No.3907027]

>>3906996
> And I'm telling you, they are NOT "dirty far left hippie liberal marxist socialist progressive anarchist atheist satanist elitist hypocritical hipster treehugger college kids fighting for communism"

No. They're just Italian. Rioting is a national sport. When American say "hey dude, let's have a drink" Italians say "sup pal, let's burn down half the city". It's their pastime.

[Anonymous No.3907031]

>>3907012
>That isn't what I pointed out. It doesn't matter if those people could pay the mortgage or not.
The article you linked was about that is what I was saying. Jesus christ dude. I never said no illegal foreclosures occurred but I AM saying that without some numbers, everything you're saying is just speculation.

[Anonymous No.3907032]

>>3907013
The main reason that Greece is fucked is because their politicians secured very large loans from the World Bank and IMF that they knew they would never be able to pay back but didn't care because they thought they would all be dead by the time it became a problem.

You could tax every Greek 100% of their income and it wouldn't matter because that wouldn't even cover what the interest on these loans has become.

[Anonymous No.3907033]

>>3907013

ya they have a huge grey market 30-45% of their economy went untaxed for a long time

plus their books were cooked by the previous administration to make it seem like they had a surplus, instead of a debt

add to that their banks failing and the financial crisis destroying jobs and you get Greece

[Anonymous No.3907048]

>>3906996
>wash off blood with a bottle of pellegrino

[Anonymous No.3907049]

>>3907031
The article was related to the falsification of these documents. Bank of America and JP Morgan are large institutions. The fact that they are being sued shows that the type of mortgage fraud you asked about is very prolific.

[Anonymous No.3907056]

>>3907049
I asked about the number of illegal foreclosures not mortgage fraud.

[Anonymous No.3907060]

>>3907056
Illegal foreclosures are a type of mortgage fraud.....

In this instance it is also a type of securities fraud.

[Anonymous No.3907064]

would you just look at that asian. He's both being in front of and behind that lady in yellow at the same time.

screw wall street and their crooked sense of physics

[Anonymous No.3907065]

>>3907032
>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704182004575055473233674214.html

Lost tax revenue due to evasion = 20billion a year

Budget deficit, 35billion.

They could service their deficit with tax revenue and some loans / restructuring which would prevent going into default..

then they could fix their economy and think about the rest of their debt

[Anonymous No.3907075]

>>3907065
>Fix their economy

Please give this amazing advice to every Western economy in the world. I am sure they will appreciate this amazing insight into the solution to all their increasing economic issues.

[Anonymous No.3907077]

>>3907060
That is true but that still doesn't change the fact that the article has nothing to do with the number of illegal foreclosures which is what this whole conversation is about.

[Anonymous No.3907080]

>>3907064

[Anonymous No.3907081]

>>3907077
I give up. Just two dots to connect and that seems to be too much.

[Anonymous No.3907087]

decline in manufacturing
www.bls.gov/lpc/

[Anonymous No.3907093]

>>3907081
Ok then, connect the dots for me.
You linked an article that says the banks are being sued for falsifying documents about the ability of people to repay their mortgages. This gives me insight into how many of the foreclosures were illegal how?

[Anonymous No.3907094]

Decline in everything else coming in the next 10 years, or white-collar jobs as they call them.

Guy who invented Netscape:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903480904576512250915629460.html

[Anonymous No.3907105]

I usually don't like to quote other people, especially not youtube vloggers, but TheAmazingAtheist made a very emotional rant about this issue. Check it out, it's worth it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN2LZ8N2uj0

[Anonymous No.3907120]

>>3907105

haha i don't usually watch TAA and im not a hippie but i do agree with him in this video.

[Anonymous No.3907128]

>>3907093
Why does a bank foreclose on a house? Because the recipient of the loan for that house stops paying. So the banks says 'Hey we are going to take that house back because we gave you $150,000 to buy it and you aren't paying us back anymore!'

Now what happens if the bank that gave out that loan decides to go to Jim Bob investor on Wall Street and say 'Hey! We gave out a bunch of these loans. People are going to, in theory, pay back these loans and interest. How about you give me, say, $100,000 for each of these $150,000 loans we gave out and any money those people pay back on those loans will be yours? Sounds like a good deal eh? $100,000 up front for the possibility to get paid back $150,000 plus the interest?'

So Jim Bob investor buys those securities which are composed of mortgages. Now consider that those people quit paying on their loans? Jim Bob loses money and that is what happened.

However, where the fraud comes in is when almost EVERYONE that took out sub prime loans on houses stopped paying at once we had a collapse in the credit bubble that was fueling these type of transactions. So now those banks that sold those 'securities' or a bunch of mortgages to Jim Bob tried to take back those houses even though they had sold off the obligations to pay to Jim Bob. So shouldn't Jim Bob be taking those houses instead of the banks that had no risk tied up in them anymore? Maybe but that isn't what happened. Banks started falsifying documents to make it look like they still were entitled to take back those houses even though they were not. Is this an illegal foreclosure when a bank does this? Yes.

[Anonymous No.3907131]

>>3907105

nah ,never again

too fat and obnoxious

[Anonymous No.3907158]

>>3907128
The only problem is you're assuming that the banks gave up all the risk. What do you think they did with the money they got from investors? They put it back into the subprime shit and bought more (hence why the banks got hit so hard). So they actually did buy a lot of them back which means they could foreclose on them.

[Anonymous No.3907160]

>>3907087
>>3907094
Right, those are logarithmic scales btw. They make exponential stuff look like a line. So an increasing line is actually exponential growth.

>>3907105
Always angry, all the time. :D

[Anonymous No.3907161]

>>3907131
This better?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sknt-UBRhxo

And I'd like to ask anyone defending large corporations instead of the people: Do you agree with this? Do you think this is good?

[Anonymous No.3907167]

>>3907158
Forgot to add.
This brings us back to the original question. What number were actually illegal?

[Anonymous No.3907171]

>>3907158
>The only problem is you're assuming that the banks gave up all the risk

The lending banks did. They outsourced all the risk to investment banks like Bear Stearns and Lehman. Then those investment banks outsourced that same risk to poor old ladies and their pension fund managers who were idiots.

Certain investment banks got hit hard because they were left holding the 'hot potato' when the bubble burst. Lending banks that went under like Countrywide ect... were in trouble because they were using those same toxic assets to lever up on their holdings and then using that money to speculate and buy more toxic assets so they could use them to lever up and speculate more. They could outsource all their risk but they couldn't outsource all the greed in their institutions.

[Anonymous No.3907172]

>>3907161

>mfw typical bought politician putting on a show for his constituents and doing what lobbyists want in the background


this is about as silly as those congressional examinations between politicians and wall street ceos...

[Anonymous No.3907175]

>>3907171
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/businessdesk/2008/08/how-exactly-did-the-banks-lose.html
True, we at P&G may well have sold the loan into the secondary market as one of those MBS's you've heard so much about: "mortgage-backed securities." So we passed off the risk, right?

Well, not necessarily. Because banks like ours have to put our depositors' money to work somehow. Our business is paying the depositors X percent and then investing the money at X-and-a-little-more percent, so we'll make a profit.

And some of the highest-paying, "lowest-risk" investments out there were - you guessed it: mortgage-backed securities! So banks like P&G often wound up putting much of our money back into the very same, very dicey mortgages we ourselves often helped originate. Same for the investment banks that packaged the mortgages and took fees for doing so: they invested in the MBOs, too. The MBOs have plunged in value. We've all lost money as a result.

[Anonymous No.3907177]

>>3907158
Lending banks NEVER once bought back those toxic assets after they had sold them off. They simply created more by finding a new niche of dirt poor Mexicans to offer ARMs to.

[Anonymous No.3907182]

http://images.businessweek.com/slideshows/20110602/twenty-countries-with-the-highest-proportion-of-m
illionaires/slides/15
According to Bloomberg 4.5% of all U.S. households has over a million dollars, so the whole 99% thing is complete bullshit

[Anonymous No.3907184]

>>3907177
See
>>3907175

[Anonymous No.3907186]

>>3907175
The 'invested' in those same toxic assets only to meet capital requirements to level up more. This was because those particular securities were the 'cheapest' to have on your books to meet capital requirements so you could go and get freshly printed Bennies from the Fed.

They weren't investing in them they were abusing them. They were shuffling them around on their books just long enough to take a statement to the Fed and say: 'Look! We have found another $1 billion in assets over the course of the last week! Can we get some more of that easy credit now?'

[Anonymous No.3907194]

>>3907184
see
>>3907186

[Anonymous No.3907196]

It doesn't matter how much the hippies protest; Wall Street isn't just going to give them billions as some sort of bribe to go away. The are going to remain inside their buildings, busily trading away, using the same money that the hippies VOLUNTARILY GAVE THEM. Hypocrisy won't dig us out of this one.

[Anonymous No.3907207]

>>3907182

that has nothing to do with the top 1% (billionaires) holding 99% of the wealth

[Anonymous No.3907211]

sage and reported

[Anonymous No.3907213]

>>3907186
>>3907194
What am I supposed to see? You're just going back to speculation and completely avoiding the number of illegal foreclosures WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

[Anonymous No.3907215]

top 1% hold 34% of the wealth, not 99

what is this 1% vs 99% all about?

[Anonymous No.3907216]

reported and saged

[Anonymous No.3907219]

>>3907196
The point isn't to get Wall Street itself to do anything, because they won't act to benefit anyone besides themselves. The idea is to draw public attention to the problems in the financial sector and create pressure for political change that will force Wall Street to stop being exploitive. Then it comes down to how much politicians actually care what people think.

[Anonymous No.3907220]

>>3907182
Their wealth will be stolen and centralized in the near future as well. It isn't like all this wealth was stolen at once....

This started 20 years ago and has slowly been working its way to the top. It just recently reached the top and is making good progress up there now.

Pic related. Just because you are a millionaire now doesn't mean you won't be 'donating' that money to the billionaires in the near future.

[Anonymous No.3907232]

>>3907186
You really think its that far-fetched that they invested in them because they, like the rest of the entire world including every rating agency, thought they were good and weren't just shifting them around on the books?

[Anonymous No.3907237]

>2011
>not making it into the top 5%

are you even trying?

[Anonymous No.3907247]

>>3907232
The ratings agencies were paid to rate those securities like they did. Yes, I do believe that these banks knew damn well how toxic an asset based off of predatory lending could be. I know this because those banks weren't trying to give out a fucking $250,000 loan to Javier as he crawled out of the Rio Grande until Glass Steagal was repealed and they were allowed to securitize their own mortgages and sell them off to 3rd parties.

[Anonymous No.3907248]

138 posts mother of god

let's go ask /b/ what they think about physics next

[Anonymous No.3907253]

I think we all know what needs to be done here.

[Anonymous No.3907255]

>>3907247
Well, I'm just going to leave it at that because you've made two assertions in this thread
1. 80% of foreclosures were illegal
2. The banks played with these toxic mortgages on purpose (even though they were financially bitch slapped, and I assure you if they knew they were toxic, they're also smart enough to disassociate with them).
You can prove neither so here we are.

[Anonymous No.3907279]

>>3907255
That is kinda the entire point isn't it? The banks wouldn't have engaged in this mass fraud in an overt way if they thought there was going to be conclusive evidence that they did.

I thought that was the entire point of fraud. To not get caught doing it or at least have plausible deniability.

By plausible deniability I mean this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voWadfgNAQ8

It really seems like you are trying to give the banks the benefit of the doubt here. Any person educated on what went on over the past 20 years would very much discourage that.

[Anonymous No.3907293]

>>3907253
Burn the prisons? But that would let the mexicans out!

[Anonymous No.3907294]

>>3907279
I actually admitted earlier that the banks did bad shit but ok.

[Anonymous No.3907296]

>>3907279

the banks misbehaved but so did the people

there are two sides to every transaction, and in many many cases those applying for loans misrepresented their incomes, and in general took on burdens they were unable to maintain

there's plenty of blame to go around

[Anonymous No.3907299]

They should protest the government, they're the ones who are bailing people out.

[Anonymous No.3907302]

I fucking hate hippies too. Fuck protesters

[Anonymous No.3907304]

>>3907279
I do see some humor in the fact that you linked to
>they're also smart enough to disassociate with them
a video about them trying to dump off bad assets on others. Are you agreeing with me or what?
I don't know why you think I'm defending the banks. I never said their bad practices didn't lead to the bad mortgages.

[Anonymous No.3907309]

>>3907299

if they didn't unemployment would be like 30% and people would go nuts

[Anonymous No.3907365]

>mfw a flat tax would fix all of this
>mfw there would be protests about the flat tax
>mfw shitty college students will always protest whatever the fuck they want
>mfw

[Anonymous No.3907368]

>>3907299
> They should protest the government, they're the ones who are bailing people out.

Hypocrites, faggot and whiners don't ever go after real causes; they just chase weakness to try to score points with their butt buddies.

[Anonymous No.3907383]

>>3907368
Everyone is to blame. Individuals as well as institutions. These people could protest just about anything at this point and be directing at a cause of this 'mess'.

The real problem is our inability or unwillingness to adapt to a changing environment. Everyone wants to go back to the 1990s and stay there forever so they can pursue their own narrow interests. That is the cause of this problem. Human weakness.

[Anonymous No.3907389]

>>3907365
it really wouldn't

[Anonymous No.3907393]

>>3907365
A flat tax just shifts the tax burden to the poor. That just makes the situation worse.

[Anonymous No.3907398]

>>3907389
it would pretty much destroy the tax argument that they are making.

[Anonymous No.3907407]

>>3906596
>As a physics major, I can't help but feel this way about people who are majoring in 17th English Lit

oh dont worry, you'll be working right along side with them at your local retail shop.

[Anonymous No.3907412]

>>3907365
100% tax rate on the entire world just to pay off the U.S debt wouldn't fix this at this point. It has gotten much much larger than that.

$800 Trillion + in derivatives sitting on financial institution's books waiting to be unwound.

$100 Trillion + in U.S unfunded Liabilities

Lol there is no chance in hell that anything short of debt forgiveness and systemic restructuring will solve this.

[Anonymous No.3907416]

>>3907393
but a flat percent tax would make the most sense. Of course we would still have the tax exceptions for the people making below x amount of money. But say a 10 percent tax ( i know it wont be that low) for everyone would have the wealthier paying far more than the middle to lower class, while still being fair. everyone is contributing. But it's not like these kids even pay taxes, or plan to.

[Anonymous No.3907418]

Derivatives market : 1.4 QUADRILLION dollars....

yeah, some niggers and white trash buying homes they couldn't afford was the problem.

[Anonymous No.3907424]

>>3907407
Sucks you aren't an engineer man. Sucks you'll just be a teacher for the rest of your life

[Anonymous No.3907455]

>>3907416
World GDP is ~$58 trillion.
U.S unfunded liabilities is ~$115 trillion.

Explain exactly how taxes are going to solve this? Is this one of those plans like the politicians use that are designed to fix the problem over the coarse of the next 500 years?

There is no solution because there is no problem. This is exactly how Financial Capitalism was supposed to end. With all the bags of money sitting in one vault.

[Anonymous No.3907466]

>>3907418
But JP Morgan swears their $78 trillion dollar share of that pot is hedged!!!!!!

>Not sure how you can hedge against a sum that is larger than the world GDP but who am I to argue with the 'top talent' at J.P. Morgan?

[Anonymous No.3907469]

The good about OWS:

There really is a lot of corruption in the system, and corporatism hurts almost all of us.

The bad about OWS:

Most of the anger is misplaced into retarded class warfare. To the extent that they even have coherent ideas, their ideas are bad.

Basically, they're a lot like the Tea Party.

[Anonymous No.3907472]

We're not even talking about Wall Street anymore

[Anonymous No.3907484]

the seem like a bunch of lazy hipsters and they don't seem to have any sort of coherent statement or ideas other than, 'hurrr rich people is evil, give me free everything'

nothing will happen, the protestors will get bored and leave when the next iphone comes out. corporations will continue to rule the world forever.

[Anonymous No.3907487]

This is how I feel about Occupy Wall Street:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVTj-vuoRoE

[Anonymous No.3907491]

>>3907455
What does tons of liabilities to entitlement programs have to do with capitalism again?

[Anonymous No.3907507]

>Galvanized by the Occupy Wall Street movement, the protests began in New Zealand, touched parts of Asia, spread to Europe, and ultimately resumed at their starting point in New York with 2,000 marchers decrying corporate greed and economic inequality.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/15/us-protests-idUSTRE79E0FC20111015

>Rallies were held in more than 900 cities in Europe, Africa and Asia, as well as in the United States, with some of the largest taking place in Europe. The demonstration in Rome turned violent, but crowds elsewhere were largely peaceful.

>http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/occupy-wall-street-protests-go-global/2011/10/15/gIQA
p7kimL_story.html

>>3907484
I think you might be wrong

[Anonymous No.3907513]

Capitalism is the practice of allocating capital towards various objectives. Since that capital was allocated towards those systems it was indeed capitalism.

>inb4 giving food to poor people so they don't riot is called socialism.

I assure you, social security and medicare is part of the capitalistic paradigm. It is a way to keep the inevitable 'losers' of capitalist society from throwing another 1776 party on your door step.

However, judging by the topic of this thread.... those hand outs are becoming very ineffective at keeping the proles happy.

[Anonymous No.3907514]

>>3907507
not in america i'm not.

[Anonymous No.3907516]

>>3907296
But the point is financial institutions do this for a living, so you expect them to be professional and not do stupid shit. Like, if I go to a doctor and offer to donate both my kidneys, I expect the doctor to stop me from doing anything moronic. Except in this case, the banks are actively peddling their terrible loans.

[Anonymous No.3907528]

no you're wrong

[Anonymous No.3907536]

>>3907516
That was true....until the Federal Reserve was created. The largest of these banks that engaged in this activity knew there was zero chance in hell that they would go under. They knew they would be bailed. The guys who weren't at the top of the banker buddy list got to fail. The Bear Stearns, Lehmans, Wachovias ect....

They knew, since 1999, that the game had changed. This wasn't the first time that we bailed out large financial institutions that buried themselves in greed and stupidity. Actually it has been a common occurrence since about 1987.

[Anonymous No.3907539]

>>3907513
No, its the practice of private ownership for production in economics.

[Anonymous No.3907554]

>>3907539
Thanks for your input, Lord John Maynard Keynes, but I don't think we need your ignorance here.

Capitalism is the practice of allocating capital towards a desired goal. Plain and simple. I think that might be where the name came from.

[Anonymous No.3907562]

>>3907554
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism#State_capitalism
>Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and operated for profit, usually in competitive markets.

[Anonymous No.3907569]

>>3907412
lol
>100% tax rate on the world
>tax ourselves to pay ourselves back
>wat

It's hilarious because 1/3 of the US debt is owned by the US government.

[Anonymous No.3907583]

>>3907562
>an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/capitalism
I can keep going if you want.

[Anonymous No.3907585]

>>3907562
Capitalism has been around a little longer than wikipedia or anyone who has contributed to it. For that reason I think I will trust Adam Smith's definition of capitalism since he is the person who first thought it up.

We change the definition of capitalism in popular use about once every 20 years. The new definitions are dependent on the economical and political atmosphere of the time.

[Anonymous No.3907592]

>>3907583
I already know what you and the rest of the world thinks it now means. I am telling you that you are wrong. If everyone involved had such a clear definition of what capitalism is and what it is used for well then it wouldn't be collapsing now would it?

[Anonymous No.3907594]

>>3907585
Could we have capitalism without medicare and social security? (yes)
so why are these the fall of it?

[Anonymous No.3907598]

Personally, I think this shit will slowly die away, if not in a week, within a month. Unless shit gets crazy, you know what I wanna see? I wanna see them literally raid the stock exchange and occupy the place. Now that would be a fucking protest.

[Anonymous No.3907607]

>>3907598
Its been growing in since ever since it started, with no signs of letting up. I fail to see the logic in your prediction.

[Anonymous No.3907613]

>>3907592
"The first theorist of what we commonly refer to as capitalism is usually considered to be Adam Smith. His 1776 work, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, theorized that within a given stable system of commerce and evaluation, individuals would respond to the incentive of earning more by specializing their production. These individuals would naturally, without specific state intervention, "direct ... that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value." This would enable the whole economy to become more productive, and it would therefore be wealthier. Smith argued that protecting particular producers would lead to inefficient production, and that a national hoarding of specie (i.e. cash in the form of coinage) would only increase prices, in an argument similar to that advanced by David Hume. His systematic treatment of how the exchange of goods, or a market, would create incentives to act in the general interest, became the basis of what was then called political economy and later economics. It was also the basis for a theory of law and government which would gradually supersede the mercantilist regime that was then prevalent."
I see nothing about what you said but ok.

[Anonymous No.3907616]

>>3907569
>tax ourselves to pay ourselves back
>live off interest payments we make to ourselves
>everyone is rich for life
>wat

[Anonymous No.3907620]

>>3907594
Because the rich guys who decided to devote a small portion of their capital towards keeping the pitchforks off the streets didn't predict that one day they wouldn't be able to pay for it anymore.

[Anonymous No.3907628]

>>3907569
We aren't taxing ourselves to pay ourselves back. We are taxing ourselves to pay the central banks back. I don't know where you got the idea that somehow the national debt is owes to the actual citizens of the world and not a cabal of banksters....

[Anonymous No.3907640]

>>3907613
>2011
>still cant understand Adam Smith

[Anonymous No.3907660]

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1

Not sure if true or false. Sounds too bad to be true.

[Anonymous No.3907662]

>>3907628
Maybe because you can just go buy government bonds? And people do?

[Anonymous No.3907665]

>>3907628

TARP made money for the treasury you stupid fuck

If we are being taxed it's through QE1-2-3 which will see our savings inflate away the second the world decides that BRIC is a better place to park their money than the US

[Anonymous No.3907666]

>>3907640
Listen you fucking retard. You didn't know Adam Smith so rather than sititng on this "I know more than the world about economics throne" why don't you provide your source?
He is clearly saying that industries will respond more positively and refine themselves through incentives, not
"Capitalism is the practice of allocating capital towards a desired goal"
Yes in capitalism you allocate funds towards a certain goal (a product) but that is not what capitalism is.

[Anonymous No.3907692]

>>3907662
Not anymore they don't. An individual investor wouldn't touch the bubble that is U.S bonds with a fucking 10 foot pole right now. The yields look attractive but they won't be when they get ready to mature. Economics 101.

>>3907665
You have no clue how the banking system in the Western Economics works and it isn't my job to educate you. Go read 'The Creature from Jekyll Island'.

Since 1913, every single penny of currency that has been created in the United States has been as a loan by the Federal Reserve. Every single last penny.

If you have a dollar in your pocket, that dollar was created because someone borrowed it from the Federal Reserve. It is debt. It is debt that we have to pay interest on but that interest doesn't even exist in the money supply because for it to exist it would have had to be loaned out by the Federal Reserve at interest.

You speak like a true ignorant debt slave. I hope that works out for you in the future.

[Marion Bartoli is my Waifu No.3907705]

>>3907692
Oh here we go with this creature from jekyll island shit again. Illuminati conspiracies, rothschild shit... god damn it take it to >>>/x/

> derp banking is a conspiracy

[Anonymous No.3907734]

>>3907692
>Inflation
>you are wrong

[Anonymous No.3907738]

>>3907692
>Not anymore they don't. An individual investor wouldn't touch the bubble that is U.S bonds with a fucking 10 foot pole right now. The yields look attractive but they won't be when they get ready to mature. Economics 101.

huh so why do t-bills have a negative yield right now? Is that because they just SUCK THAT MUCH?

kind of OT but what antipsychotics are you supposed to be taking?

[Anonymous No.3907744]

>>3907738
To further this, after the US got downgraded, EVERYONE sank their money into t-bills.

[Anonymous No.3907763]

>>3907738
It might have something to do with this thing the Fed just rolled out called 'Operation Twist'. I don't know though. It might just be because the United States has such a robust and effective economy that people are desperate to add their capital to our ever expanding pool of debt.

>>3907705
The entire book is so documented with actual documents that it is impossible to argue against its message. Well that is of course unless you are being paid to spread disinformation like the other 90% of 2011 4chan.

Fuck off shill. I know how the game is played. Your appeal to authority and strawman attacks mean nothing to me.

[Anonymous No.3907769]

>>3907763
>Well that is of course unless you are being paid to spread disinformation like the other 90% of 2011 4chan.

is this for real? where do we collect our cheques? I'll say anything for a dollar

"OP is a fag"

[Anonymous No.3907770]

>>3907763
So is supporting the banking Illuminati cabal /sci/'s new viral marketing?

> hey guys I have five dollars
> HERP FED STOOGE YOU DON'T KNOW THE FACTS

[Anonymous No.3907777]

>>3907769
>unless you are being paid to spread disinformation like the other 90% of 2011 4chan.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OOOOOOOHHH GOD WOW

The best part is that NOTHING I can say will make you feel stupid for saying something so blatantly stupid. You are too far gone.

[Anonymous No.3907781]

>>3907738
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/21/news/economy/federal_reserve_operation_twist/index.htm

[Anonymous No.3907792]

>>3907769
>>3907770
>>3907777

Samefag from the shill factory.

[Anonymous No.3907798]

Related: There were about 10,000 protesters in front of the Reichstag in Germany.

Shit was intense

http://www.livestream.com/undergroundreports

[Anonymous No.3907800]

>>3907792
Told you, man. Your bullshit has a reality distortion field that nothing can penetrate.

[Anonymous No.3907804]

>>3907777
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by speculating you get paid to spread such ignorance. If you are doing it willingly then it doesn't really help your case does it?

[Anonymous No.3907807]

>>3907763
>Well that is of course unless you are being paid to spread disinformation like the other 90% of 2011 4chan.
Really?

Paid government shills that are paid to post on 4chan outnumber bored kids 9 to 1? No.

[Anonymous No.3907811]

>>3907800
Says the person who calls anyone who understands the Federal Reserve and banking a 'Conspiracy Theorist'.

[Anonymous No.3907819]

>>3907811
>Says the person who calls anyone who understands the Federal Reserve and banking a 'Conspiracy Theorist'.
Not even whatever guy you're referring to.

But this is bullshit of the first caliber. You might as well claim that 90% of 4chan is space aliens.
> unless you are being paid to spread disinformation like the other 90% of 2011 4chan.

[Anonymous No.3907828]

>>3907807
It is a good theory to explain how 4chan suddenly abandoned everything it once stood for and the entire fucking forum devolved into 10~20 people trying to spread information and the other 1000+ calling them conspiracy theorists.

A 'Federal Reserve is a scam' thread would have never ended up like this thread before recently. Never.

[Anonymous No.3907834]

>>3907828

4chan's more mainstream now.

The most obvious solution is usually the correct one.

[Anonymous No.3907836]

>>3907828
>It is a good theory to explain how 4chan suddenly abandoned everything it once stood for and the entire fucking forum devolved into 10~20 people trying to spread information and the other 1000+ calling them conspiracy theorists.
No, no it is not a good theory.

Seriously, you think the federal government is paying people to post on 4chan (you don't seem to understand how few fucks anyone with power gives about 4chan), and that these people outnumber the bored teenagers 9 to 1? Think about that. Really think about that. Does that makes sense? How many other forums does the government gives so many shits about? How many people would that take? Are 90% of ALL the people on the internet paid shills? Is 90% of everyone out to get you?

As for your "evidence". This reasoning would also say that just because 9 out of 10 people say X belief you hold is crazy, THEY are the crazy ones.

You sure about that? Nevermind, of course you are.