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/sci/ - Science & Math

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File: 26 KB, 400x333, Alex the Parrot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3883005 No.3883005 [Reply] [Original]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_%28parrot%29

>Alex understood the turn-taking of communication and often the syntax used in language.[10] He called an apple a "banerry", which Pepperberg thought to be a combination of "banana" and "cherry", two fruits he was more familiar with.

How is this possible?

>> No.3883010

pure random chance. that's how.

>> No.3883015

>wikipedia
Found your problem.

>> No.3883021

>>3883005
Biologists can appear to be more intelligence due to their ability to mimic their surroundings.

>> No.3883035

The bird also understood basic grammatical nuance, once using the world 'flyed' when asked how he got from his cage to the table. African Gray parrots are smarter than other non-human animal, and their intelligence has been measured at roughly the equivalent of a human toddler.

>> No.3883052

>>3883005
Misinterpretation of what the bird is saying.

Having grown up with an African Grey Congo (my parents have one), I can vouch for the fact that they can correctly associate words with objects and concepts. That alone is impressive.

He used to troll my parents and the dogs. He'd call the dogs in one of my parents' voices (he could do both pretty well) then cackle like my mom when they ran up to him.

He'd also call my parents. He'd mimic their ringtone to get whichever one he wanted, then make his demands, albeit in simple language. He'd troll me by calling my name like my mom. Again, he did a pretty good imitation of her voice.

The best bit was when I got older and mom and dad hosted parties. I was the summer between Junior and Senior year of undergrad and I was home to attend a party mom and dad were throwing for some reason or another. Dad gave the bird booze and it took off from there.

They're really attention whores, as far as personality goes. They demand to be the center of attention and generally dislike being treated as pets. Ours HATED being pet, but was happy to interact with people vocally. He adored trying different foods and drinks, which I find rather odd. Some say that if they're hand-fed as hatchlings that they'll become lovey birds you can pet, I can say that there's no guarantee of that.

Great bird though, total bro if you don't mind not being able to pet him. My fraternity brothers loved the fact that I had a drinking, talking parrot. Gus loved that they were paying so much attention to him.

>> No.3883077

Some animals can be a lot more intelligent than we give them credit for. See: crows. Or:

>On the Greek tragedy side, Nim really was a social animal of high intelligence and pretty much the full range of human-like emotion. His trainers all loved him, despite the frequent marathon tantrums. What seemed to bother Nim the most about his learning experience was that his classroom was next door to a laboratory and he could hear the experimental rats screaming. One day he escaped the classroom and let all the rats out of their cages. It's only an anecdote, but it's certainly indicative of empathy, inborn desire for freedom and animal solidarity in pursuit of liberation.

http://www.counterpunch.org/young07222011.html

>> No.3883093

It's not too surprising to me.

Dogs can associate words with objects as well and infer associations between verbal queues and objects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8s7lefax5U

Poor quality video but shows what I'm talking about. As a preface, this dog (Chaser) has something like 1000 different plush toys, each with a different name, and it can pick out a specific toy when her master asks her to. In the video, Tyson gives Chaser a new toy that she has never seen before that Tyson named "Darwin". He asks Chaser to find Darwin out of a small pile of random toys and after a bit of a delay the dog correctly associates the new word with the new toy she had never seen before.

As far as birds go, Ravens are pretty clever as well. They are able to solve a variety of puzzles and use objects, tools, the environment to their advantage in ways that other animals can't. (dropping rocks in a water filled tube in order to get some food to float to the top where they can reach it, dropping nuts on the road so cars can crack it and watching street signs to know when it's safe to cross and eat the food, etc.)

>> No.3883096

>>3883015

lol'd and this

>> No.3883110

>>3883052
dont know why but i lol'd hard at the thought of your little bird trolling the entire family then laughing to your face afterwards

>> No.3883112

>>3883052
holy shit i want one now

fuck dogs

>> No.3883122

>>3883077

>It's only an anecdote, but it's certainly indicative of empathy, inborn desire for freedom and animal solidarity in pursuit of liberation.

God you people are so fucking simpleminded it hurts.

>> No.3883138

>>3883122
>we know everything about how animals think and feel

Shut up faggot.

>> No.3883143

>>3883122
you've obviously never had a talking dog or an African Grey.

I've had both, and they each demonstrated a level of intelligence I find sorely lack in your attempt at sarcasm

>> No.3883160

>>3883122

>ascription of highly abstract human concepts to animals
>concepts which are not even definitely present in humans to begin with

Why don't you go read something more advanced than your behavioral psychology textbook.

>> No.3883164

>>3883143
> talking dog

>> No.3883174

>>3883160
>empathy
>not present in humans
>highly abstract

Nigga.

>> No.3883178

>>3883122
>HURDUR HUMANS ARE SPECIAL CAUSE THE BIBLE SAID SO

Did you know that species continue to evolve, to this day? It wouldn't be magical to think that some have been lucky enough to gain enough intelligence to understand our language after having lived among us for so goddamn long. People used to kill dogs for not listening, so maybe we have a bunch of selective bred smart dogs now

>> No.3883182

>>3883110
He didn't laugh at us all that often, it was mostly to get something. He'd want out, or he knew we were eating and wanted some, etc.
The dogs, he was pure trolling. He derived a disturbing amount of joy from exerting his "dominance" over the dogs.

He knew how to work the lock mechanism on his cage, so he was out pretty often. He would warn us when he had to poop, by saying "poop" like Beavis. We'd quickly get the newspaper and he'd go on that.

Mom and dad counter-troll the bird. They leave the TV and radio on timers. TV's on Fox News, radio's on NPR. He imitates the All things considered jingle and the droll voices, same goes for Fox's more frenetic style.

He was SMART though, despite his hard drinking (for a bird) and trolling. On multiple occasions when introducing new foods, he'd ask "what?". We though it was a coincidence at first, but he kept using it when curious about what things were. If he liked something, he'd learn the name.

Highlights of his (extensive) vocabulary:
What?, Poop!, Mom!, I want ___, scotch, rum, beer, wine, voda (pretty sure that meant vodka, as dad offered him scotch when he said voda once and he dropped the timble and said voda), quiche (yes, the bird ate quiche), No (used appropriately), yes (used appropriately), Help! (used only when in real danger, like when he fell into the pool), come (used to command dogs), sit! (used to command dogs), goddamnit (used semi-appropriately), asinine (not used appropriately, picked it up from mom and myself), and more.

It's kind of fun to have a troll bird. I took care of him at my place for two weeks once when mom and dad left town. He was a surprisingly good boy so I took him to a bar. I think it was the happiest I've ever seen him. Loads of attention from everyone, no petting (I warned people not to do it, let he bite), tons of interaction with people, he got to show off his vocab, and he got to drink!

>> No.3883185

>>3883174
>he thinks humans display empathy!
humans only display empathy within dunbars number

>> No.3883191

>>3883182
>Help! (used only when in real danger, like when he fell into the pool
oh god why did i laugh so fucking hard at this mental image

I'm seriously putting it on my to do list to buy one of these parrots some day, that's amazing

>> No.3883192

>>3883185
So they do display empathy.

Good to know.

>> No.3883198

>>3883192
humans display the lack of empathy far more then they display empathy

>> No.3883210

>>3883191
We'd put him on a tree near the pool in the backyard. He would hang out, sun himself, generally enjoy life, and dick around. This was back when we were worried he'd fly off somewhere so we clipped his wings. Nowadays, we don't bother. He'll only fly to nearby places and quickly come back. He only trusts my parents' gay neighbor, so that's the only place he'll fly, when he (rarely) does fly somewhere beyond the yard.

But yeah, he tried to fly off and landed in the pool. His wings were spread out and he's screaming "Help!, help!" while trying desperately to stay buoyant. He's avoided the pool ever since.

Strangely, he FUCKING LOVES the shower. It's to the point that when my parents gave me the bird to watch, they gave me a suction-cup perch to put in my shower. He sits there, drinks from the spray, and sings/whistles the whole damn time.

Realize that it's a hell of a commitment. You have to get a chick, hand feed it several times a day, clean up after it, raise it, etc. Then, you have to engage and interact with the bird for much of the day. The first 2 years or so, they CANNOT be left alone if they are to be properly socialized.

Fun stuff.

>> No.3883215

It's truly sad to see that an African bird is smarter than the average African Negro.

>> No.3883218

Is it weird that i think having an intelligent pet would be better then having kids?

maybe 1 kid max and then get like a border collie and an african gray parrot

>> No.3883220

>>3883215

Yeah I wish I had a black man perched in my shower who would sing to me as I wash myself.

>> No.3883230

>>3883052
>>3883182
Thank you for sharing these great stories with us. Posts like this are the reason I love this place.

>> No.3883243

>>3883052
>>3883182
>>3883210
Best thread on /sci/ because of these.

>> No.3883244
File: 46 KB, 478x800, standing.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3883244

>>3883218
It's what my parents did.

One son, one african grey (purchased when I started going to preschool and mom didn't spend the whole damn day with me), and one golden retriever (insanely smart, I miss her) when I was like 3 months old to "socialize" me.
Later on, dad got a german shepherd for work (police) and a black lab still later. Both were very smart and obedient dogs.

Mom and dad still call me/message me/send me videos of retarded shit the bird does. Mostly, it's things he does to troll.
Mom was on hold with tech support or something once and just left the phone near the bird. Gus started talking into the phone (when they were back on the line and mom was still gone) and saying shit like, "I love you. Wanna drink, big boy? What?" Mom nearly laughed herself retarded.

The intelligent pet thing has carried over. My monitor is crazy smart for a reptile.

I try not to anthropomorphize pets with things like emotions and human motives, but the intelligence of some animals is just obvious.

>> No.3883252

>>3883244
>Gus started talking into the phone (when they were back on the line and mom was still gone) and saying shit like, "I love you. Wanna drink, big boy? What?"

Oh my fucking god, that's hilarious.

>> No.3883261

>>3883185

That might have been true in ancestral populations, but our ability to abstract things out means that we do, in fact, display real empathy towards any humans. The progress of ethics has been in expanding this sphere outwards.

And all mammals, at least, seem to show some degree of empathy when they see others displaying signs of distress. At least when they are not overpowered by their desire to eat that animal, or not be eaten by it.

>> No.3883271

Yeah birds are total booze-fiends. In my case it might've been my dad's fault for always offering a sip of his drink to any bird cause he thought it was funny.

>> No.3883281

>>3883252
I should note that the bird has 0 ethical qualms. He trolls everyone. I'm not sure if it's true humor or a kind of dominance behavior, but he's learned laughter and uses it appropriately.

He's a fucking bully though. We had neighbors (we moved when I was 12) when I was little that had a cockatoo named Casper. We watched Casper for a while once since we were neighbors and experienced with large parrots.

Gus would call out "Casper, come here baby" and the retarded cockatoo would climb down towards Gus' cage. (Casper normally hung out on a perch atop Gus' cage, a fact that Gus hated) As the moronic cockatoo would get closer, Gus would keep egging him on. Once he was close enough, Gus would just bite the shit out of Casper's claw/foot, then laugh his ass off. Casper bled a few times over that week. Strangely, the cockatoo kept coming back for more.
>>3883271
Yes, they are. Gus' drinking is entirely dad's fault, though I haven't helped much and even mom has since given in to our pet's adorable alcoholism.
It's weird that a bird can have a favorite drink. It's even stranger that the bird expects a drink when there are a lot of people around, indicating a party. Seriously, he'll only outright ask for it if he notices others are drinking from the small (double-old fashioned) glasses or wine glasses.

>> No.3883291

>>3883281

What about alcohol would a parrot enjoy? What does it do for them?

>> No.3883299

>>3883230
>>3883243
>>3883191
Thanks for the interest in my bird. If you want your very own pet with toddler-or-better-equivalent intelligence that specializes in trolling, get an African Grey Congo.

>> No.3883321

>>3883291
Well, they LOVE spicy things with lots of flavor. It's something to do with a weak sense of taste. To that end the bird enjoys:

Bloody Marys with lots of hot sauce
Spiced gold rum
Scotch (no clue why)
Vodka (no clue why)
Gluehwein, a German style spiced, mulled wine that's served warm. I learned to make it during my year as an exchange student there and it's since become a staple-- he FUCKING LOVES it
Gimlet martini (just lime juice and vodka, but he loves it)
Most beer we feed him. Funniest thing ever was when a fraternity brother tried to feed him Bud Light, the bird tasted it, then dropped his drinking thimble.

>Note that the bird drinks from a thimble and we limit his drinking to 2-3 full thimbles. Realistically, that's a shit-ton for a bird. Also, his universal sign of disapproval is to drop the thimble. He'll lay it down or hold it if he wants to keep drinking something or save it for later. If he hates what you've given him, he'll just drop it and look at you disapprovingly.

>> No.3883330

haha it's not like animals are completely brain dead you know. There's something going on upstairs for lots of different species.

>> No.3883344

>>3883330
I don't think that's the issue here. It's others ITT (not the OP) that are attributing human characteristics and motives to animals without any way of knowing if those comparisons are appropriate.

>> No.3883364

could this specie be sentient?

i personally doubt it, but does any neurosciencefag care to comment?

>> No.3883388

>>3883364
The word you're looking for is sapient.

>> No.3883399

>>3883388
well, the bird clearly possesses the ability to judge - but i'm curious about some sort of limited state of sentience/consciousness

>> No.3883437
File: 14 KB, 317x367, 1313053308294.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3883437

>Alex's last words to Pepperberg were: "You be good. I love you."

>> No.3883469

>>3883437
To be fair, those were words offered up as a parting at night. My family's grey says "good night" and "I love you" to us each night. It's not like the bird was no its deathbed when that was said.

>> No.3883473
File: 13 KB, 250x238, 070803_Koko_Signs_Sad_large.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3883473

>>3883437

>> No.3883492

>Sometimes, Alex purposely answered the questions wrong, despite knowing the correct answer

>> No.3883512
File: 52 KB, 470x640, ObamaPussy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3883512

>>3883437

>> No.3883515

The only thing holding bird intelligence back is the futility of spending time on technology when one can already fly.

>> No.3883551

>>3883515
I have to slightly disagree. Their size is also a factor.

Birds need to be small and light enough to fly. The type of body that allows for that mode of transport tends to also lack dexterous appendages. A bird could never work a shovel or something like that.

This prevents the ability to cook and thus more easily process food (which would greatly help birds--they have poor digestive systems) as well as to create complex tools or discover agriculture.

This in turn prevents them from having the time to discover and invent. Although the flying thing doesn't help; humanities obsession with the sky has been a driving force in our development.

>> No.3883571

>>3883005
>How is this possible?
Apparently, like physicists, biologist haven't yet been trained not to make off hand comments to stupid reporters.

>> No.3883792

I think, that when it becomes possible to "uplift" animals, that these parrots should be a top choice along with octopi and bonobos.

>> No.3884024

>>3883399

You're confused. Just about every animal is sentient. Sapience refers to the higher markers of intelligence found in humans.

>> No.3884048

Well...speaking of non-birds

My mom's dog, small dog, got so bored and fed up he came inside the house (not allowed) and jumped on my bed and he demanded I pay attention to him after practically ignoring him for 2 weeks!

It was hard to get him out of the room.

>> No.3884062

>>3883344

>attributing human characteristics and motives to animals without any way of knowing if those comparisons are appropriate.

One could say the same thing about Americans.

>> No.3884082

>Alex understood the turn-taking of communication

Alex confirmed for smarter than my mother...

>> No.3884089

>>3883364

As far as I can remember, parrots don't pass the Mark test.

>> No.3884569

bump

>> No.3884592

i am now buying a parrot because of this thread. thanks guise!

>> No.3884957
File: 39 KB, 604x453, 1309513915339.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3884957

>>3883052
>>3883182
Oh man. Your stories of your African Gray are pure gold. Hope you don't mind bro but I'm saving some of this shit. It's too awesome/hilarious.

I've got an all white cockatiel myself, had him since I was 6 or 7 (23 now). While, obviously, a cockatiel isn't as smart as an african gray, he can be a bro at times, but like your parrot he doesn't like to be petted. He hates hands and the last time we brought him to the vet he ended up drawing blood on her when she tried to hold him still.

He has done some dumb things before though; Once when I was young, we had him on the dinner table and we let him roam around, sampling some veggies. He saw a bowl of gravy and decided to jump on in... had to give him a bath which he hated. We used to clip his wings back then too and he flew into the pool. Dad had to fish him out with the net... he's never been too fond of bodies of water since. He humps his millet sticks from time to time too... he's a horny old guy.

>> No.3884959
File: 171 KB, 218x218, 1311953906255.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3884959

>>3884957
(cont.)
He does talk a bit though, He'll say stuff like "kiss the bird" or "heeeere kitty kitty kitty" or "Snowy good birdy" (his name is Snowy). We tried to teach him a few songs back in the day but he ended up jumbling them together (Andy Griffith, Adam's Family and Jeopardy).

It's a bit distressing though; I used to take him out all the time and have him run around on my desk or on his playground or have him drink from the faucet, etc. but he's gone almost entirely blind over the past couple years... now he just freaks out if we take him out because he knows he's moving somewhere but he can't see anything so he just starts flying around crashing into everything and hurting himself. I still talk to him all the time though. He likes to play a game where he'll knock him beak on his cage or on his plastic bed thing to mimic when I tap on a surface with my finger (gif related).

He's getting pretty old for a cockatiel and I know he probably only has a couple years left, but despite his orneriness sometimes he's been a good bird.

>> No.3884964

>>3884959
And as a side note... If I were to get another bird after him I might want to try a Crow or Raven. They're pretty smart and I've worked with a couple. They talked a bit and were pretty inquisitive. Plus their bite doesn't hurt nearly as much...

>> No.3885060

Best thread ever

>> No.3885106

>>3883052
> Great bird though, total bro if you don't mind not being able to pet him.
You can't pet him? Not even the sweet spot at the back of the neck? That's very peculiar. My african grey Avery loves being touched, and like your feathered friend, very vocal. :)

>> No.3885127

>how is this possible
he's a parrot

>> No.3885767

>>3883437

Manly tears were shed when I found out Alex died, then I bawwed like a girl when I read his last words.