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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

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3863122 No.3863122 [Reply] [Original]

>> No.3863124

And that we're not required to burn or stone anyone?

>> No.3863129

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

>> No.3863132

>>3863129
Exactly. Jesus established the New Covenant which superseded the OC.

>> No.3863134

Matthew 5:18

>> No.3863135

Amen. We have the righteousness of Jesus now. By the grace of God, we are free.

>> No.3863141

>>3863134
Already addressed in >>3863129 and >>3863132

>> No.3863147

Very well. Could you please tell Mr. Phelps that?

>> No.3863150

Yes, and Islam is a religion of peace.

>> No.3863152

>>3863141
Not really.

>> No.3863156

>>3863150
Too bad there's nothing in the Koran to supersede the eye-for-an-eye laws in there.

>> No.3863158

I see... so, I think you all have the wrong idea. Jesus didn't come for you.

Matt. 10:5 "Go not into the way of the Gentiles" (said by Jesus)

Matt. 15:24 "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (said by...Jesus)

John 4:22 "Salvation is of the Jews" (said by...Jesus)

Your messiah was a dope named Saul of Tarsus who obviously was fucking up the message that Jesus was spitting out:

Acts 13:47 "The Lord has commanded us, saying, I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth" (said by...not Jesus)

Acts 18:6 "Henceforth, I (Paul) will go unto the Gentiles" (said by...not Yeshua bar Joseph)

Rom. 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. (said by a dude who was not a carpenter, and didn't have a mom who scored with some guy before she got married, and faked being knocked up by God - whore)

Rom. 15:16 "I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles" (wishfully said by...not Jesus)

>> No.3863159 [DELETED] 

Then why do you hate gays?

>> No.3863164

>>3863159
Who says I do?

>> No.3863166

>>3863158
Yeah but Paul came and made up bullshit about us being able to be saved, so that works out.

>> No.3863167

Why would a perfect, all-knowing, all-loving god say things like slavery and execution are okay in the first place? An entity with infinite mercy and omniscience would get it right the first time.

Also, not Science & Math.

>> No.3863171

>>3863167
I don't know any Christians who keep slaves.

>> No.3863170 [DELETED] 

>>3863164
I'm talking to your mom. She's the other Anonymous up there.

>> No.3863175

Getting caught up in the details and right interpretations of your book when you still haven't shown why we should take that old book seriously in the first place.

>> No.3863176

>>3863171
Considering there are still millions of slaves around the world to this very day, odds are pretty good that there are at least a few.

>> No.3863178

>>3863176
Pretty much all in Muslim countries.

>> No.3863179

>>3863171
Because it's against the secular law of your country.

>> No.3863181

>>3863171
And the holocause also never happened, huh.

>> No.3863184

>>3863179
Because the majority Christian populations of those countries decided to outlaw slavery. On the other hand, atheist countries like the Soviet Union and China kept tens of thousands in slave labor camps.

>> No.3863190

It's funny how Christians claim God is objectively moral but pull out the relativity card when forced to reconcile the OT and NT.

No, wait, it's not funny, it's just retarded. Sage for not science.

>> No.3863192

>>3863184
Never said I was an atheist, bro. Agnostic master race.

>> No.3863197
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3863197

>>3863192
>Agnostic

>> No.3863201

>>3863184
Point to anything in atheism that can lead to slavery. While everyone pointed to lots of things in christianity that led to slavery, since it was COMMANDED BY YOUR GOD.

>> No.3863204

>>3863201
The Bible never requires anyone to keep slaves. All that's there are some laws governing the sale and keeping of them.

>> No.3863206
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3863206

>>3863204

>> No.3863208

>>3863204
Bible - ENDORSING SLAVERY.

>> No.3863212

>>3863208
Show me the exact part where it says "Thou Shalt Keep Slaves."

>> No.3863216
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3863216

>>3863212
this fucking guy man

>> No.3863218
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3863218

>>3863212
there's a lot about it. mainly in the OT, but as has already been stated, they DO apply. see: 3863134 (which is from the NT)

http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

>> No.3863220

>>3863212
>he thinks the bible was written in English

>> No.3863221

>>3863218
fuck, link was
>>3863134
>Matthew 5:18
>"For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the law"
jesus condones all OT law. including the slavery bit that i just linked.

>> No.3863222

>>3863218
Agnosticbro here. The place you linked is a biased atheist propaganda site.

>> No.3863224

>>3863212
Show me where it says: "Thou shalt never have the right to own another human being."

>> No.3863225
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3863225

>>3863222
>agnosticbro
don't get me fucking started on that fucking argument again...

and regardless of what type of site it is, the bible quotes listed are real bible quotes, that are also linked with reference to passage and verse. you can look all those quotes up independently if you have access to a bible, or internet bible.

>> No.3863226

Different guy, but as far as I understand the Bible takes a neutral stance on slavery. It neither condemns or condones it, but Christianity in general works against slavery because of the idea that all men are equal in God's eyes.

>> No.3863234

>>3863225

Thats fallacious, like the argument of everything having 50/50 chance of happening, either it does or it does not, which is stupid. Agnosticism is valid position, you remain unsure of things that cant be tested by empirical methods, like God.

>> No.3863236

>>3863226
no, read the link to the bible quotes i posted. it does allow slaves to be taken by christians.
also, the american south was very very religious (Christianity specifically) and they kept many a slave in the 18th and 19th centuries.

>> No.3863239
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3863239

>>3863234
*facepalm*
we've already been over this dozens of times, agnosticism isnt a stance of belief, it just means you don't know for sure.

agnostic-atheist master race reporting in.

>> No.3863240

>>3863236
Which conversely the abolitionist guys all declared that slavery was a sin against God.

>> No.3863241

>>3863234
If your are unsure, how do you know it can't be tested?

>> No.3863243

>>3863122
Probably at the same time that all christians realize it.

>> No.3863244

I don't know about Christianity, but the Koran expressly forbids Muslims to enslave a fellow Muslim.

>> No.3863245
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3863245

>>3863240
yes, but a religious person can make up anything about god, the thing with religion is that its based on faith, you arn't required to back up your bullshit with anything concrete.

several verses in the bible could be interpreted as being against slavery. as i have already pointed out, there are also several that allow slavery.
the bible is a massive clusterfuck of opinions that was written by several different people. no wonder its impossible to make any fucking sense out of it.

>> No.3863248

>>3863244
bible laws were something similar. dirty foreigners are slaves forever, they are your property and you can pass them on to your kids as part of their inheritance.
other jews can only be enslaved for a few years, and then must be freed.

>> No.3863250

Slavery did gradually die out in the Christian world through medieval times. The enslavement of blacks starting in the colonial era wasn't because of religion, but rather the growing racial prejudices of the times.

>> No.3863252

>>3863250
true, but religion didn't oppose it either.

>> No.3863253
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3863253

>> No.3863255

>>3863252
Depends. There was widespread opposition among clergy to Spanish abuse and enslavement of Indians.

>> No.3863257

>>3863253
Agnosticbro here. I've never seen an atheist who didn't do the same exact thing.

>> No.3863261

>>3863252

Ahem. >>3863240

>> No.3863269

>>3863255
Hilariously enough there are far more indians left in the former spanish controlled territories than in the british, american and french territories.

>> No.3863270

>>3863248
Think that was pretty much the norm in OT times.

>> No.3863271

>>3863257
we are arguing against the bible being a good moral code, so we are allowed to pick verses in our arguments to show why the bible is not a good book to follow and live your life by.

the fact that Christians cherry pick proves that they are really choosing their morality by something far more fundamental that is ingrained in the human psyche, the bible isnt the root of their morality at all.

>>3863261
the opinion of a few religious people =/= that religion actually opposing slavery.

>> No.3863272

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSS-88ShJfo

video is long (14 minutes)
but is very good. (qualiasoup)

>> No.3863273

>>3863271
>we are arguing against the bible being a good moral code, so we are allowed to pick verses in our arguments to show why the bible is not a good book to follow and live your life by.

Which is intellectually dishonest and biased.

>> No.3863277

>>3863269
There weren't that many European settlers in Mexico and South America since they preferred the more temperate climate of North America.

Also the Indians who mainly got wiped out by the Spanish were more backwards peoples like the Arawaks and not the advanced, settled ones like the Mesoamericans.

>> No.3863280

>>3863273
no it isn't, watch the video.
the bible being a clusterfucked hash of mainly terrible morality combined with the occassional nugget of good morality, doesnt make it a good moral code in the slightest.

>> No.3863283

>>3863271
>the opinion of a few religious people =/= that religion actually opposing slavery.
Apparently they believed their religion opposed slavery.

>> No.3863289
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3863289

>> No.3863291

>>3863271
>something far more fundamental that is ingrained in the human psyche
Poor analogy to use because it looks like you're supporting dualism.

>> No.3863292

Religion is the least of our problems.

I fucking love science and math by the way

>> No.3863295

>>3863283
meh. that is because there is a metric fuckton of different denominations of christianity that cherrypick the bible in various different ways.

it doesnt mean any of us should give a fuck about religious teaching.
more qualiasoup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZpJ7yUPwdU#t=2m40s
(deeplink to [2:40])

>> No.3863296

>2011
>Still believing in an objective reality
I see none of you have studied relativity

>> No.3863301

>>3863295
Hey, if someone says their religion opposes slavery, I'm certainly not going to object.

>> No.3863302

>>3863273
>Which is intellectually dishonest and biased.

This is what butthurt theists actually believe.

>> No.3863303
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3863303

>>3863295
the one problem i have with chrome is that the deeplinks dont work, they always just go straight to the start of the video so you have to deeplink manually... (which is why i always include it in the link, and also add a note after the video for chrome users)

>> No.3863306

>>3863132
Firstly this is NOT science and maths so sage the fuck out of it.
Second continue with the whole passage of what Jesus said on the sermon on the mount til heaven and earth pass, Jesus has not fulfilled all prophesies thats why jews don't accept and why Christians believe he is coming back (second coming) So the laws of the old testament still apply until he full filled the prophesies and returned.
The reason you don't do what evil shit the old testament mentions is because you're fucking retarded and are social Christians not real Christians you go for the community and for the comforts of being "loved" by a god.

>> No.3863308

>>3863301
perhaps you should, might make for interesting discussion, or at least to troll a fucktarded theist
fucktard: mi relijunn oppozzes slayvuree"
me: oh really? well you are a christian, right? so you follow the bible? ok, where in the bible does it say that slavery is wrong?
fucktard: ...erm
me: oh look, i found some verses that support slavery! looks like your religion doesn't oppose it at all
fucktard: http://roughkut.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/rageGuy2.jpg

>> No.3863310

>>3863306
And yet...Jews also don't follow the OT to the letter and they don't have the NT to negate it.

>> No.3863313

>>3863308

See >>3863240

>> No.3863314

>>3863310
Surprise surprise religious people who don't actually follow what their god tells them to do? Is anyone fucking surprised? The only places that do word for word follow their god are countries where the leaders still fucking kill people for being witches or stone unruly children
You can thank secular morality because without it we'd get nowhere as a society.

>> No.3863315

>>3863314
>You can thank secular morality because without it we'd get nowhere as a society.
See >>3863184

>> No.3863316

>>3863310
any religion that follows fucking bronze age texts to the letter is gonna fuck up the rest of society. modern religion HAVE to cherry pick just to keep in form with modern day morals (which dont come from religion at all)
that is why fundamentalist muslims who actually properly follow the koran are the murderous fuckheads who everyone hates, wheras the moderates ignore most of the koran, and just might not eat pork, or some shit.
(i know some moderate muslims who fully consider themselves muslims, yet still drink alcohol and have un-married sex. both of which are forbidden by the koran)

>> No.3863317

>Still not believing in god
What are you 5

Dont play in traffic or you could die says the loving mother
Angsty 5 year old doesnt believe her because he's never seen anyone die before or been killed himself

I hope none of you are honestly this retarded

>> No.3863322

>>3863313
and again, without any biblical or religious source to back up their personal opinions. just the belief that their personal opinions are also the personal opinions of their god.

>> No.3863323

>>3863322
Wha...you don't think they took some Bible verses to mean that slavery is bad?

>> No.3863328

>>3863316
>form with modern day morals (which dont come from religion at all)

Actually you could find any number of modern Christians or Jews who point to parts of the Bible to justify this.

>> No.3863329

>>3863315
You can't be serious... oh wait you are...
Show me where in the bible it says slavery is a sin.
So what we see is people DESPITE their religion abolished slavery something their god said was good and alright.
It's like talking to a retard honestly.

>> No.3863334

>>3863329
See >>3863226

>> No.3863336

>>3863334
Sorry don't buy that cop out shitty excuse of an answer it specifically says to enslave people read the fucking bible for once.

>> No.3863342

>>3863336
Again, where does it say "You must keep slaves or else"?

>> No.3863346
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3863346

>>3863323
not without completely ignoring a lot of other (and less vague) verses.

>>3863328
true, but then you can just point out the bad moraity of the bible, and say "well if morality comes from the bible, how are you choosing which bits are right and which are wrong? you only choose parts of the bible."
(also most of the 'good parts' of the bible are copypasta from jainism, which predates christianity anyway, the plagarising fucks)

>>3863342
it doesnt, it says you MAY take slaves if you want.
that's still bad morality!

>> No.3863350

Agnosticbro here again. This is the dumbest thread I've ever seen. Atheists acting as if Christians in this day and age are all keeping slaves chained in their backyard. They're inventing problems that don't exist.

>> No.3863355

>>3863346
>(also most of the 'good parts' of the bible are copypasta from jainism, which predates christianity anyway, the plagarising fucks)

Because I'm sure the authors of the Bible had any contact with India. *sarcasm*

>> No.3863361

>>3863350
that isnt our argument. our argument is that morality doesn't come from religion, or the bible.
mathew 5:18 also shows that the NT doesn't mean that christians can just disregard the OT as an explanation for their religious morality
(are in fact a few NT verses that allow slavery anyway, just far more in the OT)

>> No.3863368

Is it just me, or do atheists have no logic?

>complain about slavery
>complain that Christians don't keep slaves

>> No.3863373

>>3863355
Jainism is about as innocuous a faith as one can get. There are no known wars fought over it in history.

>> No.3863376

>>3863355
jainism predates christianity by several hundred years. morals can spread a long way in that time.
also, india isn't even particularly far from the mediteranean middle east areas where Christianity originally started spreading out. (yes i know there was no modern transport, but still...)

>> No.3863377
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3863377

>>3863368
missing_the_fucking_point.jpg

oh believe me! we are more than thrilled that Christians are not following their religion properly!

>> No.3863382

>>3863377
There seems to be an awful lot of bitching and moaning about it, though. It seems quite, well, illogical that atheists would want Christians to follow the OT literally because then they'd all be burned/stoned to death.

>> No.3863386

>>3863376
The Romans had some limited trading contacts with India, but I think that was it.

>> No.3863392

>>3863377
Maybe you should try picking a fight with that other religion which does follow the OT literally.

>> No.3863393

>>3863382
we don't want them to follow it, we are just pointing out that the bible is so fucking horrific that it doesnt deserve to be followed. and by extension, neither does christianity at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TXFKDN8_vo

>> No.3863396

>>3863392
they don't follow it literally either

>> No.3863398

>>3863396
I'm personally going to kill you when I move to the UK. I'll probably drag it out though, humans die too fast if you don't have fun with them for a while.

>> No.3863401
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3863401

>>3863398
uhuh. you not knowing who, (or where), i am might be a slight barrier to that goal, but gl;hf hun.

>> No.3863404

>>3863401
Oh please, we all remember your little identity slip you slut

>> No.3863409

>>3863382

We don't want them to follow it. That'd be stupid. Rather, we point it out because it demonstrates that they're happy to pick and choose what parts of the bible are applicable - which is a problem when they simultaneously try to argue that it's word is the absolute moral truth.

They argue that the bible is super-dopper moral - we point out that it isn't, and that their actions don't match their words.

>> No.3863411

>>3863404
i was never confirmed to definitely be her, it could just be another girls facebook who has nothing to do with me.
it was just a lot of coincidence and rumour, you have nothing concrete.

>> No.3863416
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3863416

>>3863411
Stupidest thing I've ever read, coming from you not a surprise.

Sleep tight though, you're probably right anyways ;)