Holocaust Revisionism: Where's the science?

[brent No.3857730]

Do you believe the Holocaust happened the way it's described in American classrooms? Disclaimer: I'm not anti-semetic or anything else, I just want an honest discussion about the real happenings during the Holocaust. It seems like whenever the subject comes up, the only thing that drives the conversation is emotion. It's completely taboo to discuss this, which is ridiculous to me.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkF1-Ow5X8A&feature=related

The guys contending against various Holocaust-related claims are clearly being reasonable, and the things they say aren't refuted (logically) by anyone else in the room. Has anyone else addressed the points they bring up? It clearly was a terrible event during which a lot of folks died, but was it what we're taught to believe?

tl;dr: Holocaust revisionists: Victims of society or broscientific jewhaters?

[Anonymous No.3857733]

>>3857730
you're anti-semitic.

[Anonymous No.3857752]

I hate jews.

[brent No.3857758]

>>3857733

[Anonymous No.3857768]

>>3857733

[Anonymous No.3857783]

>>3857768
>>3857758
You're both anti-semites.

[Anonymous No.3857784]

Every reasonable person knows that the holocaust happened, and every non-idiot knows that not only Jews were affected. While trying to perfect our understanding of exactly what happened and how is a noble goal, it won't be seen that way and it will be hijacked by morons who will go I TOLD YOU THE JEWS LIED, DAD.

[Anonymous No.3857791]

this is a really really really, really
boring topic. Thanks op.

[Handstandard !eZurQiPamQ No.3857797]

>>3857783
you're just an anti-equestrite.

[Anonymous No.3857799]

>>3857791
You're an anti-Semite.

[brent No.3857805]

>>3857784
I'm not asking if it "happened"... I don't understand how asking about facts surrounding the event somehow always becomes "HOLOCAUST DENIAL!!!!!!!!1111111"

[Anonymous No.3857807]

>>3857797
Now THERE'S a group whose genocide I can throw my full support behind! Ponyfags are really just the fucking worst people ever.

[Anonymous No.3857810]

>>3857730
If the holocaust happened, were da bodies?

Did they just go up in smoke or somethin?

[Anonymous No.3857811]

>>3857807

[Anonymous No.3857816]

>>3857810
I lol'd

[Anonymous No.3857818]

>>3857730

The historical record clearly shows that OP is an anti-semite.

[Anonymous No.3857823]

"European Union, developed a more detailed working definition, which states: "Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities." It adds "such manifestations could also target the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity." It provides contemporary examples of antisemitism, which include: promoting the harming of Jews in the name of an ideology or religion; promoting negative stereotypes of Jews; holding Jews collectively responsible for the actions of an individual Jewish person or group; denying the Holocaust or accusing Jews or Israel of exaggerating it; and accusing Jews of dual loyalty or a greater allegiance to Israel than their own country. It also lists ways in which attacking Israel could be antisemitic, e.g. by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavor, or applying double standards by requiring of Israel a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation, or holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the State of Israel."

permaprotect, and justifies everything they do

[Handstandard !eZurQiPamQ No.3857825]

>>3857807
>generalising an entire sect of people

[Anonymous No.3857831]

>>3857823
Not comparable.
We have an empire to build, things that can rise hatred between countries must be regulated.

Now, if the usa had something comparable, then it would be shocking.

[brent No.3857834]

>post on /sci/ expecting the average poster to be somewhat more intelligent than the rest of 4chan
>discover that the opposite is true

[Anonymous No.3857837]

>>3857805

Yes you do. You do know why investigation into the particulars of the holocaust is treated with suspicion.

Because it is almost always a cover, a wedge for people who want to claim that it didn't happen, or people who either want to lay some blame at the feet of the Jews themselves, or take some blame away from the Germans. They start with 'I'm just asking questions' and they end with 'see, they lied about everything'.

Serious discussion is needed, but given that the subject attracts antisemites and zionists like flies to shit, it is not a simple matter.

The salient facts of the matter: the Germans attempted a genocide of the Jews in Europe, among other undesirable groups, and they almost succeeded.

[Anonymous No.3857842]

German here. We never discussed the exact details of how many/where/when concerning the Holocaust, but more of how it was organized (and of course involved also gays, gypsies, political opponents, Soviet p.o.w.'s etc.), how people have dealt with the 'collective guilt' since then and the role it played in German politics and society since then.

To my mind the details of the Holocaust should be discussed by historians through informed debate and especially not by uninformed people on the internet. With the last generation of people who had any direct involvement whatsoever in it dying out these days the Holocaust is just history now.
Trying to use it as an argument or justification is no better than using any other historical incident.

I calim than anyone trying to argue that fewer people died than the history books state or that it never happened are just trying to push a political or social agenda. It's the same with the whole creationism non-sense. Virtually any 'scientist' who argues for it is not a genuine sceptic, but rather wants to convert people to his own beliefs.

In the end it's probably best to remember the Holocaust as one would any awful crime against human beings. It was a cruel, violent act in a long, cruel and violent history.

[Dynasticum !hkEGQsV0Xg No.3857846]

There was this holocaust denier David Cole if I am right.
And he was a Jew.
Don't know what happened with him.
But a "holocaust" probably happened but the numbers might be a bit over the top.
Even on an Israili site stood "only" 300 thousand died in Auswitzsch (could be up to 600 thousand).
Even though the numbers in Auschwitz and some other camps are lowered. the 6 million has always been 6 million.
I'm a globalist capitalist and love freedom of speech for anyone and am completely unrelated to nazis so it's not really in my profit to be a revionist.

[Anonymous No.3857847]

>>3857837
it's the same as all the thinly veiled threads on justifying racism

[Anonymous No.3857851]

Sigh. These threads are pointless OP. The majority of users here are rather dogmatic about history and don't care to discuss the consistent flaws in the holocaust. The fact is that everyone in the 50s was gullible about events that happened due to limited media control so we can never really know whether the holocaust happened or not (I think it did but not through gas chambers and nowhere near the amount of Jews supposedly killed).

[Anonymous No.3857853]

>>3857730

well, it would really help if you actually posted the things you think are historically "iffy" about the holocaust.

[Anonymous No.3857854]

>>3857834
>they disagree with me they must be dumb!

[brent No.3857868]

>>3857854
Actually, I was referring to the fact that the majority of the replies were /b/-worthy. And, you know, your whole misinterpretation of what I was talking about and what occurred in this thread.

(Retard.)

[brent No.3857874]

>>3857847
>>3857837
You're making assumptions and talking about things that have absolutely no relevance to what I talked about in the OP.

Racism isn't playing a role here, I'm just trying to discuss facts. Truthfully, I don't understand why anyone would want to be racist toward anyone without good, factual reason to be.

[Anonymous No.3857877]

i don't know guys.
I talked to my great uncle about his time in the war and he said that he liberated one and that the higher officer guards were still there in the camp, (they surrendered). After a couple of hours walking through the camp his commanding officer called him over with 2 other guys and told the german officers into the forest. Then they executed them in the forest and said there was no guards there when they arrived.

[Anonymous No.3857881]

>>3857874

The only assumption is based on experience. Typically, people who are most interested in challenging ideas about the historical facts of the holocaust do have an agenda, an antisemitic one. Given this trend, and the sensitivity of the events in question, it is up to them to show that they do not have any agenda.

If you are mad at this, be mad at the people who created this situation, the holocaust deniers and their tactics.

[brent No.3857884]

>>3857881
...or I can just be mad at you for being irrational and making the assumption. I've pointed out that I'm not part of that group you're referring to, so, moving on...

(Oh, wait, we can't move on, because you're part of the ignorant public who is driven by emotion rather than reason.)

[Anonymous No.3857886]

>>3857874
>Racism isn't playing a role here, I'm just trying to discuss facts. Truthfully, I don't understand why anyone would want to be racist toward anyone without good, factual reason to be.

oxymoron? the entire point of it being racist is that you DON'T have enough facts to judge someone individually, so you make unfair generalizations. racism is by definition generalization from lack of information.

[Anonymous No.3857894]

>>3857884
>says we're emotional
>state no arguments to debunk
>wow guys you are totally not getting me at all quit letting your emotions blind you, i'm obviously way too smart for all of you

[Anonymous No.3857895]

Lrn2history
6 Million Jews were murdered between 1933-1945 during the regime of Nazi Germany.
Lynches, died from hunger or diseases in the ghettos, murdered by bullets and gas cars and eventually the gas chambers. The gas-chambers, which example the peak of Nazi murder-efficency started only at 1943, when they already started losing control of the winning streak, at the eastern-russian front. They could've invested the money in extra technological advances or expanding the supply lines to the front, but decided to build the 3 main extermination camps.
True, in the extermination camps were murdered much less than 6 million Jews, but in the entirety of the time known to the Jewish people as the Holocaust from 1933-1945, a total of about 6 million Jews who were once written in documents throughout Europe disappeared. They're names are now documanted in the Israeli memorial of Yad-Vashem. Feel free to check it out.
As for the claim "where are the bodies, hurr?". During the 50's and 60's the Communists uncovered in forests in Poland, Ukraine, Romania, etc. hundreds of mass-graves that were dug during WW2 and had a sum of hundreds of thousands of bodies of anonymous people. Most expected to be Jews. Feel free to travel Poland and Romania to see the memorials left there for yourself.
tl;dr OP is anti-semitic faggot that didn't bother doing any research for himself

[Anonymous No.3857899]

>>3857895
>copies and pastes articles with no valid sources.
>hurrrr lern to history lol

This isn't chemistry you fuckwit, history doesn't work like the periodic table.

[brent No.3857901]

>>3857894
...you (or whoever I was originally replying to) is making a gross generalization and essentially saying "deal with it". Logical fallacy, plain and simple. You can't knowingly employ a logical fallacy and say "deal with it"--that's not how logical debate works...

And yep, as things stand right now, it seems like I'm a lot smarter than you.

[Anonymous No.3857905]

>>3857884

I can see that you are trolling, but for any lurkers;

I don't make this assumption out of nowhere. Holocaust revisionism is always the first step of holocaust denial. It does not always lead to it, but it always starts with it. I have the same reaction to any other attempt to revise received history of other genocides. They are sensitive issues. People interested in seriously investigating them have it upon themselves to demonstrate that they have no ulterior political or ideological motives.

But we can all agree on the most important fact; the Germans attempted a genocide of the Jews in Europe, and almost succeeded. All else really is just details.

[brent No.3857910]

>>3857895
>tl;dr OP is anti-semitic faggot that didn't bother doing any research for himself
Re-read the OP. I pretty much came here looking for a reasonable discussion on the topic.
>HURR FAGGOT ANTI-SEMITIST

[Anonymous No.3857916]

>>3857910

So provide something to discuss.

What accepted fact about the holocaust do you dispute? Or do you just have a mistrust of history in general, and Second World War history in particular?

[brent No.3857921]

>>3857905
You're not making the assumption out of nowhere--I get that. But you're making an assumption. A generalization. A logically fallacious generalization which has no standing in a logical debate. See >>3857901

Re-read >>3857884. You haven't said anything to reasonably respond what I just said--nothing to get us passed this point. You're just talking in circles about how your generalization is justified...

I'm not an anti-semitist and I'd like to discuss the scientific facts surrounding the Holocaust because I'm genuinely interested and the fact that people like you seem to be INCAPABLE of getting passed the HURDUR ANTISEMITISM *generalization* makes me even more determined

[Anonymous No.3857926]

>>3857921

You haven't said anything to respond to.

Perhaps anon will correct me, but you're OP can be summed up as 'holocuast? sounds fishy to me'.

So >>3857916

[brent No.3857929]

>>3857916
I'm just curious about the points raised by David Cole in the video I linked, and a few other misc. things that seem to come up here and there. Did you watch the video? If not, I can probably find a concise write-up somewhere, or cherry pick a few of the more reasonable claims from the video.

Basically, they surround the designs of what are claimed to be the gas chambers, crematorium, etc. and what was used to do most of the killing. I think David Cole actually claims that the gas chambers weren't used as we're taught whatsoever--let me see if I can find the relevant part of the video

[Anonymous No.3857930]

>>3857926 here

A lot of spelling and grammar errors there.

Oh well, I have to go now anyway. Laters.

[Anonymous No.3857931]

I like this picture. Notice the dates on the articles.

and i cant find it now so this is another of [citation needed] but i remember a picture that showed various ethnicities in europe a few years prior to ww2 and there were only around 5 milion jews in all of europe at the time.

[brent No.3857938]

>>3857926
I see where you're coming from, but I did link to a video which has a lot of the points which were fresh in my mind when I wrote the OP

I also asked
>Do you believe the Holocaust happened the way it's described in American classrooms?

It's general, but it is a legit question... not just "sounds fishy".

[Anonymous No.3857945]

>>3857931

Not suspicious, considering the population of Jews in Europe was around six million at the time, and holocaust is a term for massacres used for centuries before it was applied to the genocide in Europe.

[Anonymous No.3857955]

>>3857945
>not suspecious
thanks for clearing that up, nothing i can say against that.

[brent No.3857965]

To follow up on one of my recent replies, it's best to just watch the short video series. A lot of what he says just points out logical flaws in the widely-accepted story, like the mechanics of the gas chambers (doors that only lock from the inside of the chamber, open inward, etc.) or the nature of real-world gasing vs. the claims of using diesel engines and zyklon B, etc.

[Anonymous No.3857973]

[Anonymous No.3857975]

>>3857931

See, this is an example of the kinds of arguments people bring up to say vaccines cause autism/cell phones cause cancer/cigarettes do not cause cancer/global warming is not real/evolution is not real/etc.

The authoritative position is assumed to be suspect. Any evidence, no matter how flimsy or absurd, is assumed by contrarians to completely destroy the common expert opinion of the matter at hand. Any lines can be drawn between coincidences and demonstrate that a conspiracy is trying to lie to you for some nefarious reason. Does a bunch of articles in the NYT containing the term "holocaust" and the number 6 million constitute solid evidence that 6 million Jews did not die in the Holocaust? Of course not, but apparently in the minds of stormfags, conjecture has the exact same standing as concentration camps, mass graves, court proceedings, census reports, Himmler's diaries and voice recordings, the Korherr report, and so on.

[Anonymous No.3857987]

>>3857975
six million was thought to be the total amount (and a rather generous estimation) of jews living in europe at the time.

it isn't some magical prophecy.

[Anonymous No.3857998]

>>3857975
My grandpa was there, watching them die, it just seems so silly how people would try to claim that it never happened. While he wishes it hadn't, he's not yet ready to give up his mind to go insane and believe otherwise.

[Anonymous No.3858007]

>>3857998
of course, all the germans and other prisoners starving due to the destruction of infrastructure, that doesn't matter.

[Anonymous No.3858008]

>>3857987
>>3857975

so every single jew in europe died?
or maybe the number is exaggerated and needs to be revised.

[Anonymous No.3858017]

>historical revisionists == creationists
So full of themselves.
So willfully stupid.
So full of lies.
So ignored.

[Anonymous No.3858028]

>>3858007
Starving? I wish. If that was the case, then maybe I wouldn't have a grandfather who still wakes up screaming from night terrors.

[Anonymous No.3858035]

>>3858028
yes, all those people in those photographs look like the average american in terms of biomass.

[Anonymous No.3858038]

>>3857987

You mean 9.5 million? 6 million could refer to the number of Jews living in Western and Central Europe. But of course you didn't provide a citation for that so that we could check on your claim.

[Anonymous No.3858045]

>>3858038
>insists on citation
>provides another number
>no citation
>contradicts newspaper publications of the time

[Anonymous No.3858047]

>>3858035
I didn't mean to say that they weren't, just that those who died of starvation were the lucky ones.

[Anonymous No.3858056]

>>3858007

Yes, I suppose then it was totally alright to round up all the Jews in Europe and put them in concentration camps and let them starve to death

Shit, that almost sounds worse than gas chambers

[Anonymous No.3858057]

>>3858047
Go read the original version of 'Night'

There is no mention of your supposed horrors.

[Anonymous No.3858063]

Historian here. I don't want to go into too many details but it's common knowledge to anyone who does research that around 150,000 were purposefully killed by shooting, gassing, etc in the camps themselves. Estimates as high as 600,000 were killed from overwork, malnutrition, and sickness in the camps. Outside of the camps, it's anyone's guess.

But any historian worth his salt will never ever bring this up because it's an instant black mark on your career that will never come off. There's no Jew conspiracy or anything of the sort. Attempting to contradict the Holocaust is just considered wrong amongst the community.

tl;dr The overall death toll of around one million is the unspoken standard.

[Anonymous No.3858068]

>>3858057
Okay, I'll ask my grandfather why the authors of Night didn't include any of that. Anyways, I think I just heard him again, so I'm off to comfort him before another attempt at sleep.

If you're the praying type, I hope you'll say a prayer for him. Good night.

[Anonymous No.3858072]

There is no evidence of atrocities that can't be explained by the effect of waging war.

Starvation? Allied bombing of supply lines, roads, bridges, and railroads.

Burnt tens of millions in ovens? They had so much fuel that they could waste 2 tones on each corpse?

Where are the mass graves?

[Anonymous No.3858075]

>>3858068
Yep, let's all trust some dying old man's word, who obviously didn't just sit there and watch by his screaming every night 70 years after the event.

[Anonymous No.3858077]

>>3858045

Herpity-derpity-doo

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005687

Let me guess: this is a completely biased source and cannot be trusted amirite?

By the way, you failed to notice that in the NYT clippings, the primary source itself is inconsistent regarding the 6 million figure: sometimes it refers to "European Jewry," the population of Jews in Eastern Europe, or that of Russia alone. Chalk that up as part of the Jew conspiracy, fudging their own numbers before the Holocaust so that when the Holocaust actually did happen, they could have some wriggle room when they planned to lie about their friends and family dying. It just makes sense.

[brent No.3858079]

>>3857975
Slippery slope fallacy, etc. No reasonable person employs it.

>>3857998
Again, nobody is arguing that it didn't happen... not sure how many times I'll have to say this ITT.

[Anonymous No.3858082]

>>3858068
Funny how your grandfather was one of the 10 million that survived, out of the 10 million total Jewish people in Europe in 1937.

I bet you don't give 2 shits about the Polish, Gypsies or deformed at birth that were killed.

[brent No.3858084]

>>3858077
>>3858077
>>3858077
>>3858077
>>3858077
Someone posted a reasonable response to that picture right when it was posted. Why are you two still discussing it?

[Anonymous No.3858085]

>>3858077
strawman everyware.

but hey, if it makes you feel any better, keep on thinking that way.

there are plenty of actual documents that can be cited and anyone can type up numbers on a webpage.

4chan is a .org too, doesn't give it legitimacy.

[Anonymous No.3858087]

>>3858072

>tarvation? Allied bombing of supply lines, roads, bridges, and railroads.

The civilian infrastructure of Germany was in poor shape by 1944-5 but they certainly weren't all starving to death. Compare and contrast a photo of Holocaust victims, and that of civilian Germans from the same period. Who looks more like skeletons?

Also

>implying that forcing millions of people into concentration camps and starving them to death is somehow morally better than gassing and shooting them

>Burnt tens of millions in ovens? They had so much fuel that they could waste 2 tones on each corpse?

>tens of millions

Wat

And you've never heard of open pits before? You can burn a lot of bodies at once if you stop caring whether the Jewish inmates know what's happening. There is forensic evidence of such large pit fires around concentration camps but I'm sure it's just Jew lies.

>Where are the mass graves?

Try Googling "Holocaust mass graves" you idiot

Second hit:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19053913/ns/world_news-europe/t/mass-holocaust-grave-unearthed-ukraine/

[brent No.3858092]

>>3857973
>>3857973
>>3857973
Looks like a legitimate scientific claim. Does anyone have an answer to this?

[Anonymous No.3858093]

>>3858087
>ukraine
>knows nothing of the mass genocide by Stalin.
>that holocaust doesn't matter
>lelelele

[Anonymous No.3858094]

Is there any evidence that wasn't fabricated after 1944? By which I mean evidence that is from during the war that cannot be fabricated.

Mass graves, bone fragments, anything like that?

Documents and ledgers can be easily fabricated.

10 million corpses in the same hole in the ground cannot.

[Anonymous No.3858095]

I don't think the Holocaust is a lie because of the testimony of the actual Nazis at the Nuremberg trials who had nothing to lose.

However, I don't think it has much importance in today's society. It's been politicised and used a scapegoat to justify Israel's colonisation of Palestinean land.

If the Nazis were after Irishmen, the Irish would have kept Germany. If the Nazis were after Bulgarians, the Slavs would have kept Germany. There's no good excuse for the Jews to take Palestine or to classify Israel as a "Jewish state".

[Anonymous No.3858096]

>>3858095
Do the confessions brought out by torture in Gitmo have any legitimacy?
No.

Neither do the confessions brought out by torture in the Nuremburg trials.

[Anonymous No.3858098]

>>3858087

>And you've never heard of open pits before? You can burn a lot of bodies at once if you stop caring whether the Jewish inmates know what's happening.

Um, no, you can't. Human bodies are 80% water and take a lot of fuel to burn, and an absolute fuckload to burn to ash. Furthermore, not even 100,000 worth of bodies have even been found out of the 6 million that supposedly died.

[Anonymous No.3858100]

>>3858095

the Nuremberg 'confessions' were a result of torture, and nazis having their families threatened with death

[Anonymous No.3858103]

>>3858087
>they certainly weren't all starving to death.

Wow. Neither were the Jews. Only the American POWs were killed, and nobody else.

[Anonymous No.3858107]

>>3858103
and each side possessed the technology to prevent indiscriminate bombings of cities due to lack of targeting systems.

[Anonymous No.3858112]

PRUSSIAN BLUE:
Summarizing, the walls of the extermination gas chambers were in contact with HCN for a much shorter time then those of the delousing chambers, and for the last 45 years were exposed to surroundings which dissolve the compounds, while the delousing rooms were not. Therefore it is obvious that less traces of compounds would remain in them. This debunks the major "amazing discovery" in Leuchter's report, which, in retrospect, wasn't 'amazing' at all.

From:
http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/leuchter-faq-04.html

[Anonymous No.3858115]

>>3858098

>Um, no, you can't.

I see we have here a real expert in burning large quantities of dead bodies

>>3858096
>>3858100

This implies that the things the Nazis confessed to could have saved their lives. Maybe they would have survived if they denied committing horrendous crimes, I dunno

Let's hear directly from a man we know was never tortured by the Allies

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Himmler_Posen_Speech_-_Extermination_of_the_Jews_excer
pt%2C_Oct_4%2C_1943.ogg

Translation:

"I am talking about the "Jewish evacuation": the extermination of the Jewish people. It is one of those things that is easily said. "The Jewish people is being exterminated," every Party member will tell you, "perfectly clear, it's part of our plans, we're eliminating the Jews, exterminating them, ha!, a small matter." And then along they all come, all the 80 million upright Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. They say: all the others are swines, but here is a first-class Jew. And none of them has seen it, has endured it. Most of you will know what it means when 100 bodies lie together, when there are 500, or when there are 1000. And to have seen this through, and - with the exception of human weaknesses - to have remained decent, has made us hard and is a page of glory never mentioned and never to be mentioned."

[Anonymous No.3858116]

>>3858063
Well, im gonna take that with a huge grain of salt but its kinda what how i feel about the matter anyways so...
im happy.

[brent No.3858117]

>>3858100
>>3858098
Either of you have any legitimate citations for this?

Also, if those are legitimate claims, don't both of those open up a huge can of worms as far as the popular Holocaust story is concerned?

[Anonymous No.3858118]

>>3858107
The thing is, even the German farmers were starving.

The German citizens were starving too. You don't see ANY fat Germans when Berlin was taken.

However, you do see LOTS of German women that were raped to death by soviet troops.

[Anonymous No.3858121]

>>3858112
I'd love to know how they managed to dissolve an industrial compound like that, and then somehow transport it or have it disperse across a couple acres.

[Anonymous No.3858123]

>>3858117
google how long it takes to cremate the human body.
and read up on the nuremburg trials.

these things aren't some well-kept secret.

[brent No.3858126]

>>3858112
>>3858112
>>3858112
Thanks! That's the kind of thing I was looking for.

[Anonymous No.3858127]

>>3858115

And before someone accuses the translator of being biased, here is the same German text run through Google Translate:

"I mean the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish people. One of the things that are easy to pronounce. "The Jewish people is being exterminated," every Party member tells you, "clearly stands there in our program, switching from the Jews, extermination, we do pfah!, Little thing." And then they all come, all the 80 million worthy Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. Says: all the others are pigs, and here's a first-class Jew. And watched, it has not been through. Most of you will know what it means when 100 bodies lie together, when 500 or when lying 1000th And this held out to have, and - apart from human exception weaknesses - to have remained decent, has made us hard and is never called and never to page of glory"

[Anonymous No.3858128]

>>3858121
If you had opened that link, you could have read that:
>The hydrocyanic acid (HCN) that is released from the Zyklon B preparation is a liquid with a boiling point of about 27 degrees Celsius. It has an acidic character, and therefore forms compounds with metallic salts, which are known as cyanides. The salts of alkaline metals (such as sodium and potassium) are water soluble.

>Hydrocyanic acid is a very weak acid, and accordingly its salts dissolve easily in stronger acids. Even carbonic acid, which is formed as a reaction of carbon dioxide with water, will dissolve ferro-cyanide.

>Stronger acids, such as sulfuric acids, easily dissolve the cyanides. The compounds of cyanide ions with heavy metals are longer lasting. This includes the already mentioned Prussian blue, although this will also slowly dissolve in an acidic environment.

>Therefore, one can hardly assume that traces of cyanic compounds could still be detected in construction materials (plaster, brick) after 45 years, after being subjected to the weather and the elements (rain, acid oxides, especially sulfuric and nitrogen oxides). More reliable would be the analysis of wall plaster [samples] from closed rooms which were not subject to weather and the elements (including acid rain).

[Anonymous No.3858137]

>>3858118

>you do see LOTS of German women that were raped to death by soviet troops.

Nobody tries to deny that, but for some reason people keep insisting that the Holocaust isn't real, but if it was real, few people died, or if many people died, it was unintentional. Imagine how disrespectful it must be to Germans if there were whole aspie communities devoted to "proving" that the Soviet crimes against German civilians were exaggerated falsehoods.

[Anonymous No.3858142]

>>3858128
it is apparent you've never stepped foot in a chemistry class before.

that is not how solubility works.

though, do explain why the walls are blue, what compound is on the walls, why just the walls and not the floor, and why does the compound stay on the walls?

[Anonymous No.3858147]

>>3858142
If you have problems with that piece of text, you can always complain to the originator:

INSTITUTE OF FORENSIC RESEARCH
In the name of Prof. Dr. Jan Sehn, Krakow
Division of Forensic Toxicology

Krakow, 24 Sept. 1990
Westerplatte 9 / Code 31-033
Tel. 505-44, 592-24, 287-50
Telex 0325213

Feel free.

[Anonymous No.3858151]

>>3858123

Something tells me you're not going to read the following link. But maybe someone else will learn something useful from it:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/

[Anonymous No.3858154]

>>3858117
>Either of you have any legitimate citations for this?
A -MODERN- (cira 1970-on)crematorium can cremate a body, using a pressure chamber and fuel oil or natural gas in half an hour.

The ovens the Nazis used were shoddy cracked brick ovens.

The human body is about 95% water. In order to burn, the water has to be evaporated, or it's equivalent. Now, assuming a 150 lb person and the 95% water, that gives you about 142.5 lb of water. Water requires about 970 btu/ lb to convert it into steam. To that you must add about (212-50) btu/lb water to get the body to about 212 where the water will evaporate.
So, the estimate of about 1000- 1100 BTU/ lb is not bad.
To dehydrate the body it will require about 142500-146,700 BTU, plus the inefficies of the air/ body transfer, and furnace and less for the conversion of the hydrocarbons into ash.
So if we assumed about a 40% efficiency factor overall, including all losses etc, that means that the net energy use would be about 356250 BTU, or about 356 cubic feet of natural gas (1000 BTU/ Cu FT) or less if it is pure methane which can come in between 1100 and 1400 BTU/ Cu. Ft.

[Anonymous No.3858156]

numbers are just that, numbers.

the holocaust remains as a dark moment in the history of humanity.

one we should never forget.

[Anonymous No.3858162]

>>3858154

>The human body is about 95%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_water

>the total amount of water in a man of average weight (70 kilograms) is approximately 40 litres, averaging 57 percent of his total body weight.

[Anonymous No.3858165]

OP, if you want a real discussion on this, visit fourchon.net/new/

in fact there's a decent holocaust revisionism thread right now

cya there!

[Anonymous No.3858166]

>>3858154
Now calculate how much of that can be produced by the burning bodies themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wick_effect

[Anonymous No.3858167]

>>3858154

>Water requires about 970 btu/ lb to convert it into steam. To that you must add about (212-50) btu/lb water to get the body to about 212 where the water will evaporate.

You calculated how much energy it requires to turn a human being into STEAM?

[Anonymous No.3858172]

>>3858162

yeah, that's body weight you stupid fuck. bone, for example, is denser than water

[Anonymous No.3858174]

>>3858172
not if you drink fluoridated water

[Anonymous No.3858175]

>>3858162
Wikishittyia, banned from several countries for shittyness...

Try using cited sources instead, summerfag(middle-school child).

[Anonymous No.3858178]

All you guys are proving is that it takes A LOT more effort to burn a corpse than the history books imply.

[Anonymous No.3858180]

>>3858172
>Bitches about using percentage of water by weight
>Now, assuming a 150 lb person and the 95% water, that gives you about 142.5 lb of water
>Water requires about 970 btu per pound

[Anonymous No.3858185]

>>3858167

>turn a human being into STEAM?

>implying humans have ABSOLUTELY NO WATER IN THEM.

[Anonymous No.3858189]

>>3858175

How low can you go anon? Is there a limit to this or are you a bottomless pit of idiocy?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC436172/

[Anonymous No.3858193]

>>3858178
That's because everyone assumes the bodies were burned one by one like in modern crematoriums.

But mostly the bodies were burned in large open pits, wholesale. And remember that majority of them were desiccated and malnourished.

Comparing the burning of one average person to the burning of hundreds of thinned people at a time is like saying wood doesn't burn when you are unable to light up a single log, while a bunch of branches would go up in a blaze. Yes, that's a bit exaggerated, but not as much as you might think.

[Anonymous No.3858202]

>>3858185

>implying flesh and fat is not itself a source of fuel for fires

>implying that the calculation for turning water completely into steam applies to human beings

>implying a crematorium functions by completely atomizing the human body and turning it into water vapour

>implying that humans are 95% water by mass or volume

>implying you're not a self-important Dunning-Kruger-infected faggot who knows fuckall about history and science

[Anonymous No.3858204]

>>3858193
>burned in large open pits

That doesn't actually work -at- -all-. Where did you even get that crapola? I've tried burning bodies in pits, and the ground fucks it up. It chokes the air, cools the fuel, and only the top 13 inches can cook to ash. Your're are SERIOUSLY better off burning bodies on a big pile of wood.

[Anonymous No.3858209]

>>3858204

>I've tried burning bodies in pits

Sup Himmler

[Anonymous No.3858211]

>>3858202
>implying flesh and fat is not itself a source of fuel for fires

Ever render fat? It takes a long time. If you use a LOT of fuel and heat to speed up the process, then the fat just evaporates as smoke.

[Anonymous No.3858213]

>>3858209
Actually, I'm a poacher.

[Anonymous No.3858214]

>>3858193
if they weren't there should be tens if not hundreds of mass graves numbering in the thousands near by.

[Anonymous No.3858221]

>>3858211

>Ever render fat?

I'm sure rendering follows the exact same process AS BURNING CORPSES

[Anonymous No.3858222]

>>3858175
The source is right there in the second sentence:
Guyton, Arthur C. (1976). Textbook of Medical Physiology (5th ed.). Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders. p. 424. ISBN 0-7216-4393-0.

[Anonymous No.3858225]

>>3858214
With most of the remains still identifiable with GPR at a depth of 3 feet and more.

[Anonymous No.3858227]

>>3858204
You're seriously refusing to think this through, huh?
Of course the pit isn't filled all at the same time.

Also, how big of a pit did you use and how many carcasses were there?

I've helped in burning pig carcasses in open pits. You make the pit into a trench with both ends dug into gentle inclines, aligned with prevalent winds if possible. These inclines allow the fire to draw air into it.

You start by building a wide fire at the bottom, onto which you will then start dumping the bodies, a dozen at a time or so. As the fat and flesh start to burn, the fire will grow and you can star dumping more bodies on it.

Done properly, you can reduce a thousand full-grown pigs into a thick layer of ash and pieces of bones(and a lot of horrible smoke), which you can then cover with the earth you dug up for the trench.

While burning the last hundred carcasses, the fire is usually the hottest and people tend to keep away from the pit unless the fire needs to be stirred.

[Anonymous No.3858228]

>>3858214

>burning bodies

>graves

>burning bodies

Actually nevermind. Let's pretend that all Holocaust victims were shot and buried in graves, as many of them certainly were. Would you not be satisfied unless we discovered 10+ million corpses and every single or mass grave they occupied? Even finding half of them would be unrealistic.

[Anonymous No.3858233]

>>3858221
You're still saying that the fat could be used as fuel.

Most of the body is water.

To turn a corpse into fuel, most of that water needs to go. To turn fat into fuel, you need temperatures below what have been previously implied in this thread, or else the fat just evaporates as smoke.

It really doesn't work the way you're implying it magically does.

[Anonymous No.3858234]

>>3858228
mass graves aren't exactly hard to find.

do provide an example of such that is located in Germany or Poland.

[Anonymous No.3858242]

guys.

you do understand that not only jews were sent to the camps, right?

[Anonymous No.3858245]

>>3858227
Those trenches themselves can be identified with GPR, and the larger bone fragments identified with a little forensic examination if necessary.

Too bad the trenches can't be found. At all. Because the earth was never disturbed.

[Anonymous No.3858247]

>>3858242
no one gives a fuck how many slavs, communists and retards you kill, 5 million of those is nothing compared to most real 20th century dictatorships, but 6 million jews is unforgivable and unparalleled in history

[Anonymous No.3858250]

>>3858234

>provide an example of such that is located in Germany

Are you so damn ignorant that you don't even know where the locations of the concentration camps are? Jesus fuck dude, the trains carrying the Jews went out of Germany for a reason.

Anyway:

http://www.gfh.org.il/eng/

Photo taken near Warsaw according to the notes.

[not that guy No.3858251]

>>3858233
Actually, water doesn't have to be removed for the fat to burn. You can actually make an oil(or fat) fire hotter if you add some water the right way. As the water vaporizes, it breaks up the oil(or fat) into smaller droplets, which will conflagrate due to the increased surface area.

[Anonymous No.3858255]

>>3858250

In b4 some retard pipes up and says something like

>You can't prove those aren't doctored!

or

>Those are just normal graves!

or

>That's not Warsaw! I know by looking at the soil

[Anonymous No.3858256]

YOURE ALL ANTI SEMITES

DO YOU KNOW THIS


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D7APJ4dr78

[Anonymous No.3858257]

>>3858251
You can make it hotter by adding water AFTER THERE IS NO WATER -FIRST-! And then it's because the water evaporates suddenly, aerating the oil into a flaming cloud.

[Anonymous No.3858263]

>>3858245
Oh hey, with a three-word search I found evidence, instead of bullshit-pulled-out-of-my-ass which you provided to prop up your claims.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1673471.stm
http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=231&Itemid=8

[Anonymous No.3858266]

>>3858256

Yes, some people are prosecuted (not in the US) for Holocaust denial and yes, there is a powerful Israel lobby in Washington

How does that prove that the Holocaust never happened/was exaggerated?

[Anonymous No.3858271]

If the holocaust didn't happen, where did all those millions of jews go to?

[Anonymous No.3858272]

>>3858257
No. See >>3858227

I propose you find a livestock farm which has to burn hundreds of animal carcasses so you can see how effective it is.

[Anonymous No.3858274]

>>3858256
stormfag spotted.

[Anonymous No.3858276]

>>3858263
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1673471.stm

They don't mention finding mass graves, and 1700 bullets is weak evidence.

>http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=231&Itemid=8

>The Germans demolished the camp and carefully removed all evidence of it, removing corpses from the graves and burning them before planting a forest at the site.

BULLSHIT! The Germans dug up the graves, burnt the bodies, then planted a fucking forest?! AT THE END OF THE WAR WHEN THE SOVIETS ALREADY TOOK THAT LAND?!

[Anonymous No.3858278]

>>3858272
Now, all you need to do is find the trenches.

[Anonymous No.3858283]

>>3858276

Did you even read the fucking article? Second paragraph:

"The research team, which began its government-sponsored investigation in the summer, said the graves - the largest of which is about half the size of a football pitch - contain charred remains."

Further down:

"IN ADDITION TO the graves, the researchers ALSO FOUND 1,700 bullets in the corner of a barracks"

Lrn2reading comprehension

[Anonymous No.3858284]

Don't buy into the stormfag fallacies and appeal to emotions beat them with science!

[Anonymous No.3858287]

>>3858283
I don't see it listing the number of trenches. It could be filled exclusively with POWs, and nothing else.

[Anonymous No.3858290]

>>3858283
>250,000

It COULD be POWs.

[Anonymous No.3858294]

>>3858276

>AT THE END OF THE WAR WHEN THE SOVIETS ALREADY TOOK THAT LAND?!

>1943

>end of the war

>1943

>end of the war

>1943

Wait, something's not right here

[Anonymous No.3858298]

>>3858283
1700 bullets? pfft. Not evidence of Jewish people killed.

[Anonymous No.3858304]

you know, i know it's too macabre to actually happen, but boy I wish the Mythbusters tackled the holocaust denial.

[Anonymous No.3858305]

>>3858294
>>3858294
>>3858294
>The archeologists who worked at the site of the camp presented the results of their work at the headquarters of the Council for the Preservation of Monuments of Combat and Martyrdom. They discovered large mass graves at the site of the Sobibor Nazi death camp. Nearby, they also encountered the remains of a structure that may have been a gas chamber.

>Sobibor is one of the most mysterious of the mass-extermination sites. Approximately 250,000 Jews from Poland, Germany, France, and Holland were probably exterminated there.

>The Germans demolished the camp and carefully removed all evidence of it, removing corpses from the graves and burning them before planting a forest at the site. "We know far more about Auschwitz, because some people survived there," said former Polish foreign minister Władysław Bartoszewski at the conference. "Sobibor was a place of instantaneous extermination. People were gassed there in thirty minutes, with the use of exhaust fumes from diesel engines. No documents on the subject are extant."

>At present, it is not even known how large an area the camp covered, or what the extermination site looked like, because no one survived sub-camp III, where the gas chambers were located.

>Andrzej Przewoźnik, secretary of the Council for the Preservation of Monuments of Combat and Martyrdom, announced that the work would continue next year.

>herp-derp 1943! 1943! 1943!

Where does it say 1943? And if it WAS shut down in 1943, then it can't have baked as much Jewloaf as you're implying they did.

[Anonymous No.3858307]

>>3858290
>>3858287

It could also be the work of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Ever hear of Occam's Razor? Mass grave + near a major concentration camp + concentration camp equipped with gas chambers = camp population consisted largely of Jews = ????

100% POW corpses and no one else is a bit of a stretch

[Anonymous No.3858312]

>>3858307
FSM slaps both ways here. They could have just been Polish people, who are forgotten and insulted by Jewish people.

[Anonymous No.3858317]

>>3858305

>Where does it say 1943?

Why are stormfags so fucking ignorant of history? Oh wait. Holocaust denial, right.

>then it can't have baked as much Jewloaf as you're implying they did.

The flippant way you refer to Holocaust victims ("Jewloaf") implies that you have no moral objection to massacring the Jews. Why do you even bother denying what happened? The Nazis should be praised as heroes!

And to the point: prove that the Nazis couldn't kill thousands of prisoners in a few months. The Hutu did with only machetes and rifles in 1994. Why is it impossible for the Nazis?

[Anonymous No.3858320]

>>3858317
So you don't have evidence or proof, just shitslinging and denial on par with stormfags.

Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.3858322]

>>3858312

>Polish people, who are forgotten and insulted by Jewish people.

Wat

Are you Pole? Did some Jewish kids make fun of you or something?

Everyone knows 2 million Poles died in the Holocaust. We just don't waste as much breath rebutting idiots who claim that the Poles were never massacred or that only a few were.

[Anonymous No.3858323]

>>3858317
>Holocaust victims

I feel bad for the Polocks that legitimately died there, which could account for all the evidence.

[Anonymous No.3858329]

>>3858322
>Are you pole?

No, I'm a good Zionist Israeli Jew. Please continue to suck my dick as hard as you have been.

[Anonymous No.3858331]

>>3858322
>Everyone knows 2 million Poles
Try 7 million.

[Anonymous No.3858332]

Most of the confusion arises from the russians severely overblowing the casualty figures during and after the war.

Other than that it's all very well documented.

We have names (often tied to T4 in germany which was a rehearsal for this shit), faces, photos. Actual photos of smiling SS-men shooting people over a gargantuan ditch full of bodies.

There's a small canyon near my hometown. 2,000 dead jews (it was a small town) blown out practically for everyone to see. That's just one podunk town in eastern europe.

The Einsatzgruppen part of the holocaust is beyond doubt.

[Anonymous No.3858335]

>>3858320

>So you don't have evidence or proof, just shitslinging and denial on par with stormfags.

The mass grave was the proof. The existence of the camp and its gas chambers are proof. Are you implying that you're NOT a stormfag? Who is in denial here?

Do you need proof that the camp was liquidated in 1943? That's a matter of historical record, it's like asking for proof that World War II started in 1939. But if you really really don't believe that Sobibor's activities stopped in 1943, there's Wikipedia, the USHMM, and there's this:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1540-6563.2009.00252_67.x/abstract

[Anonymous No.3858338]

>>3858335
Mass grave is proof of a mass grave, not who filled it.

That's what forensics is for.

[Anonymous No.3858340]

well done OP

I'm proud

[Anonymous No.3858344]

>>3858332

Gas chambers are trickied because nazis were secretive about all this and for good reason. Hitler's nacht and nebel order cast utmost secrecy over this.

The gas operators themselves were shot. After the war, very few wanted to talk as it was common knowledge they were actually killing their own people.

But again, we have public knowledge of a train station full of jews disappearing - 50,000 people in many cases. They ride off, never surface anywhere again, not to be heard from anyone ever again.

Meanwhile mounds of clothes and hair at auschwitz are mounting.

Polish underground operatives actually sneaking into the camps to gather intelligence.

Tons of this stuff really, you gotta be a braindead american hick to question the holocaust.

[Anonymous No.3858348]

>>3858329

You don't have to be a fucking Holocaust denier in order to criticize Zionism or Israeli foreign policy. Jesus Christ dude.

>>3858331

You're confusing the Poles killed in the Holocaust (i.e. shooting operations and death camps) and Polish civilians killed in the "normal" course of the war.

[Anonymous No.3858349]

>>3858335
lol'ing at your desperation.

there's this mass grave rite?
in soviet protectorate rite?
the germans somehow operated a gas chamber at the very end of the war with a strong soviet presence deep behind enemy lines.
then they somehow mananaged to plant a forest and dismantle the camp and leave no trace.
along with somehow having the manpower to bury all of those bodies without being detected.

makes sense to me.

[Anonymous No.3858351]

>>3858332
>it's all very well documented.

Not really. That's why we have A LOT of problems with the evidence, because most of the documentation was for the Nuremberg trials.

[Anonymous No.3858355]

>>3857842
Hey German how do you feel that the jevvs guiltrip germany for the rest of history while the japs that di even worse things than the nazis where left unpunished.

[Anonymous No.3858356]

>>3857730

>Do you believe the Holocaust happened the way it's described in American classrooms?

No.

simply because the US educational system sucks balls.

[Anonymous No.3858358]

>>3858349

>at the very end of the war

>1943

>at the very end of the war

Can't tell if troll or really fucking stupid

>then they somehow mananaged to plant a forest and dismantle the camp and leave no trace.

Obviously they left a trace because we know Sobibor exists and we found the mass graves.

[Anonymous No.3858359]

>>3858351
>most of the documentation was *CREATED for

Woops, fixed that.

[Anonymous No.3858362]

>>3858358
massgraves exist therefore nazis did it?

logic, you do not has it.

[Anonymous No.3858364]

>>3858358
>we found the mass graves.

We didn't find evidence that corroborates that Jews were the most "holocausted".

[Anonymous No.3858370]

>>3858351

That's not the documentation he's referring to. Primary documents are in abundance:

http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/resource/document/document.htm

In b4 you see one of the links to Nuremburg testimony and you think all the links are material Nuremburg

>>3858355

>japs that di even worse things than the nazis where left unpunished.

Getting firebombed and nuked and occupied isn't punishment? You've never heard of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East? Class A War Criminals? Does any of this shit ring a bell to you?

[Anonymous No.3858372]

hey retards.

6 millions is the total number of deaths in the camps, not just of the jews.

anyway, i'm out, the stupidity here is reaching critical mass,.

[Anonymous No.3858373]

>>3858063
>But any historian worth his salt will never ever bring this up because it's an instant black mark on your career that will never come off. There's no Jew conspiracy or anything of the sort. Attempting to contradict the Holocaust is just considered wrong amongst the community.
>There's no Jew conspiracy or anything of the sort.
Then why is it wrong to question that as[ect of the holocaust?

[Anonymous No.3858378]

>>3858370
losing half your land and having the majority of your infrastructure destroyed with major cities firebombed?

Dismantling the ruling party immediately, banning all mention of it, and instating puppets who are grossly incompetent and don't know what the fuck they're doing?

that is not nearly enough.

>>3858373
because majority rules

[Anonymous No.3858380]

>>3858364

Clearly that means no Jews were killed at Sobibor at all

Ergo the Holocaust is a lie/exaggerated, yes?

>>3858362

The problem with posts like these is that it sounds so much like what a troll would say, no one could possibly be that stupid. Maybe it's a case of Poe's Law

[Anonymous No.3858382]

Sure is jewishness here.

[Anonymous No.3858383]

>>3858380
clearly you know nothing of stalin or of his orders of pow execution.

[Anonymous No.3858390]

>>3858378

>Dismantling the ruling party immediately, banning all mention of it, and instating puppets who are grossly incompetent and don't know what the fuck they're doing?

Wait, are you talking about postwar Japan or postwar Germany? Both those countries experienced rapid economic growth after the war. What on Earth are you babbling about? How does any of that prove that Japan completely escaped punishment?

[Anonymous No.3858391]

>>3858383

And what exactly does Stalin have to do with Sobibor?

[Anonymous No.3858392]

>>3858370
>Minutes of the 1942 Wannsee Conference planning the annihilation of over eleven million European Jews.

So they didn't start holocausting them until 1942, right? And a -lot- of those documents are from -after- the war, right?

The numbers, costs, and timeline DOES NOT ADD UP!

To be honest, I'm starting to doubt they could even have killed 2 million Polish people and the Gypsies in the time they had, with the resources they had.

[Anonymous No.3858393]

>>3858274
>detects a stormfag at this point in the thread
I think your stormfaggometer may be a tad bit on the insesnsitive side. My systems have been registering a stormfagstorm of power 4 for the past hours.

[Anonymous No.3858401]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katzmann_Report

>inb4 shittipedia

3 camps 1,750 000 jews dead

not counting auschwitz and a couple others

also stroop report concerning the jewish ghetto uprising in warsaw

these are genuine beyond doubt gentlemen.

Notice the death toll and realize we haven't even touched on the einsatzgruppen and other camps yet.

[Anonymous No.3858402]

>>3858370
The biggest perpetrator of the war Hirohito was kept alive.

[Anonymous No.3858404]

>>3858401
>wikipedia

Uh, no. You pointed it out yourself

No. Not a source.

Fuck-off, Meguca.

[Anonymous No.3858411]

>>3858404

>implying wikipedia isn't properly cited

wikipedia is edited and monitored by people with severe compulsive disorders and have every single claim backed by a citation that can be followed and checked for validity.

[Anonymous No.3858412]

>>3858401
Beyond a doubt, your post is garbage and worthless.

It wasn't even published until 2007.

[Anonymous No.3858413]

>>3858404

serves it's purpose to let people know of these documents

if someone is unconvinced they can check the veracity of this easily.

[Anonymous No.3858414]

>>3858402

Wasn't the Emperor just a figurehead who didn't make any decisions on his own?

>>3858404

This is kind of funny.

Our sources: news releases, museum websites, Wikipedia, primary documents, scholarly books

The stormfag response?

>WIKIPEDIA HURRR DURR SHITTIPEDIA

Stormfag sources: jpgs created by stormfags, horrendous misunderstanding of math and science and history, baseless conjecture

Nice double standards there.

[Anonymous No.3858415]

>>3858411
2007 published paper of something that was undocumented before the war, after the war, during the trials, undiscovered for 60 years, then it appears from nowhere like the "Nostradamus watercolors".

Fuck you, and fuck off.

[Anonymous No.3858417]

>>3858411
A Polish translation of the report had already been published in the 1950s, but was subject to communist censorship, and did not have an accompanying scholarly analysis that came with the more recent edition, then it appears from nowhere like the "Nostradamus watercolors".

Fuck you, and fuck off.

[Anonymous No.3858419]

So now Nuremberg is totally debunked right?

I know most of stormfags are just trolls but just the mere possibility of someone actually believing this shit bugs me a lot, I won't deny that.

[Anonymous No.3858420]

>>3858414

A shit report is shit.

A Polish translation of the report had already been published in the 1950s, but was subject to communist censorship, and did not have an accompanying scholarly analysis that came with the more recent edition, then it appears from nowhere like the "Nostradamus watercolors".

Fuck you, and fuck off.

[Anonymous No.3858424]

>>3858417

Institute of National Remembrance is six years old

I could most likely link you to a scholarly analysis of said report from the communist years, but what the fuck would you do with that aside from "lol moonspeak doesnt count fake"

[Anonymous No.3858422]

>>3858392

>And a -lot- of those documents are from -after- the war, right?

No. Learn to read.

>The numbers, costs, and timeline DOES NOT ADD UP!

Why doesn't it add up? Nazi documents attest to how many people they killed. The Korherr Report declared that 4 million Jews had "disappeared" from Nazi-occupied Europe as early as 1942.

In b4 the Nazis are lying to themselves in their own internal reports

>To be honest, I'm starting to doubt they could even have killed 2 million Polish people and the Gypsies in the time they had, with the resources they had.

It's not enough to say "that's ridiculous!" and pretend that there's no evidence at all. The Rwandans killed hundreds of thousands of their countrymen in a few months with little more than machetes and AKs. I like how every stormfag has ignored Himmler's speech:
>>3858115

I'll repeat it again:

"I am talking about the "Jewish evacuation": the extermination of the Jewish people. It is one of those things that is easily said. "The Jewish people is being exterminated," every Party member will tell you, "perfectly clear, it's part of our plans, we're eliminating the Jews, exterminating them, ha!, a small matter." And then along they all come, all the 80 million upright Germans, and each one has his decent Jew. They say: all the others are swines, but here is a first-class Jew. And none of them has seen it, has endured it. Most of you will know what it means when 100 bodies lie together, when there are 500, or when there are 1000. And to have seen this through, and - with the exception of human weaknesses - to have remained decent, has made us hard and is a page of glory never mentioned and never to be mentioned."

[Anonymous No.3858423]

>>3858419
Just the "holocaust" part.

The war was real. The propaganda was that the Germans were charged with.

[Anonymous No.3858426]

>>3858422
Bullshit. I dismiss everything that was created for the post-war trials.

[Anonymous No.3858427]

Not reading the thread and I'm not interested in an argument. I just wanted to reply to "nobody in the room refuted what's being said."

This is because entertaining crazy ideas lends them credibility. Would you seriously want to have an open and honest discussion about flat earth theory? No. Doing so would give flat earthers a stage and put them next to real scientists. See how that looks? You have a group of crackpots on the same stage as scientists.

But this doesn't mean that there is no room to argue about anything. There definitely is, but within reason.

The reason something like this doesn't seem equivalent to flat earth is because you simply aren't informed enough. US Schools are terrible and there's no doubt that a lot of shit is simplified to the point of being wrong. So using it as evidence that something isn't right is, well, not right.

And this is the problem with conspiracy theories and pusedo science. You have a group of people who are smart enough to convince themselves of something and they use enough big words and "evidence" to convince people who know less than they do. To a group of people who aren't engineers it may seem perfectly possible 9/11 was a demolition. There are even some "professionals" that think it was a demolition. Which again, is a case of really smart people convincing less informed people of the conspiracy.

[Anonymous No.3858429]

>>3858415
>>3858417

What the fuck are you even blathering about?

What's wrong with the year 2007? Recent scholarship is more credible because it's based on all the cumulative work of previous scholars. If you don't know this, I don't know what you bother posting on /sci/

[Anonymous No.3858430]

>>3858414
>Wasn't the Emperor just a figurehead who didn't make any decisions on his own?
Hirohito was deeply involved with the decisions of his empire, but the generals and his accessors struck a deal with McArthur to make it seem that Hirohito was innocent.

[Anonymous No.3858431]

>>3858424

>Institute of National Remembrance is six years old

>I could most likely link you to a scholarly analysis of said report from the communist years, but what the fuck would you do with that aside from "lol moonspeak doesnt count fake"

Published in 1950, with the "complete" version coming out 5 years ago.

Oh, my. How LEGITIMATE it seems.

[Anonymous No.3858432]

>>3858426

The Korherr Report was created in 1942. Himmler's Posen speech was recorded in 1943. Are you trying to imply that the Allies faked these?

>>3858430

Do you have a source for this unusual account of Hirohito role in the war?

[Anonymous No.3858433]

>>3858429
>Published in 1950. Heavily edited. Completed 5 years ago.

Yeah. RIIIIIGHT.

[Anonymous No.3858434]

>>3858432
>The Korherr Report was created in 1942.

No, it was created in 1950.

[Anonymous No.3858436]

>>3858431
>>3858433

1. WHAT REPORT are you talking about?

2. Do you have ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that reduces the credibility of that report?

[Anonymous No.3858439]

i don't have any proof either way, except this:

think about the rotten shit people do TODAY. now think about the rotten shit people do when they have power. now combine these things and add warring for survival to the mix.

of course the holocaust happened and if it didn't happen, it sure as hell could happen.

the holocaust isn't even the most rotten thing that humanity has ever done to itself.

[Anonymous No.3858440]

>>3858436
>ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that reduces the credibility of that report?

Submit the originals for forensic analysis, and I will.

Would only need 3 letters from the original papers, too.

[Anonymous No.3858441]

>>3858433
>>3858434

So you ARE saying the Allies faked the Korherr report?

On what grounds do you make that claim? How about the original typewritten facsimile available online? Is that also faked?

What about Himmler's speech? Is that also fake?

[Anonymous No.3858445]

>>3858439
Bullshit. Were the Nazis racist like the KKK?

No, they believed people were different, but not like American racism where we kill you. They just put you somewhere else where you could be useful. If that meant you didn't get to meet Hitler, tough shit.

This is a load of restrained propaganda that the Germans were charged with.

[Anonymous No.3858447]

>>3858441
>>3858441
How about the originals submitted for forensic analysis?

[Anonymous No.3858448]

>>3858445

>No, they believed people were different, but not like American racism where we kill you.

made my day

[Anonymous No.3858450]

>>3858445
Holy wow. Has anyone prescribed anything, treatment or drugs to cure your delusions?

Do you often think you can fly? Or that you're napoleon?

[Anonymous No.3858462]

>>3858450
You don't know what America was like before the 1950s.

We were pretty goddamn malevolent as far as race and religion is concerned, and we did shit to people that makes the holocaust look like a kindergarten spanking.

Hell, we experimented ON OUR OWN PEOPLE after the war in some goddamn horrendous ways.

Don't you try to imply we're the good guys on the evidence of "just because".

[Anonymous No.3858473]

>>3858462
No, I'm not saying americans walk with halos over their heads (nor Finns, since finnfag here), but america acting like a total douche and the nazi germany acting like a total douche are two separate things. Both can be(and are) true at the same time.

[Anonymous No.3858476]

>>3858473
Faggiest apology ever.

[Anonymous No.3858477]

>>3858476
I'm not apologizing. I'm correcting his error.

[Anonymous No.3858481]

>>3858477
What error? That Americans killed the people they were racist against? That the Germans HATED the KKK?

The Germans had black African troops in North Africa that saw battle and were awarded medals.

The Americans used their black troops to build a fucking road to Alaska, for fucks sake.

Fuck you, asshole. I know my country, you don't.

[Anonymous No.3858488]

>>3858481
What part of
>both acted like total douches
didn't you get?

Sure, some nazis weren't total monsters and Hitler liked kittens. Doesn't change the fact that nazi germany killed them some jews.

USA tested the effects of immediate fallout on troops by having them charge through the after-effects of a nuclear explosion and more reprehensible stuff. And that also doesn't change the fact that nazi germany killed them some jews.

Like I said two times previously, these are separate things and one being true doesn't make the other untrue.

[Anonymous No.3858491]

>>3858488
What part of "what error" don't YOU get?

So far, your only point of contention is Germany and "the Jews". Before the war, we -REALLY- didn't like Jews either.

What error? Hurry up, Swinegolian.

[Anonymous No.3858495]

>>3858488
>USA tested the effects of immediate fallout on troops

Oh, we did A LOT more than that, and the worst was done to civilians, not soldiers.

[Anonymous No.3858497]

>>3858491
Not him, but I'd guess:
>They just put you somewhere else where you could be useful.

Which quite clearly implies certain implications. And the part where you introduced America out of nowhere into an argument over Nazi Germani

[Anonymous No.3858498]

>>3858497
>implies implications.

Oh, God. I lol'd.

[Anonymous No.3858499]

>>3858495
Would you be thinking about certain experiments with syphilis, specifically?

[Anonymous No.3858500]

The holocaust never happened. What your witnessing here is the trollocaust.

[Anonymous No.3858501]

>>3858491
Maybe you need to consider going to a doctor. Such a bad memory as not being able to remember saying
>They just put you somewhere else where you could be useful.
could be a sign of a brain tumor or worse.

>>3858495
You should have read the rest of the line where it says
>and more reprehensible stuff
I'm really tired and can't be arsed to write a novella for every post.

[Anonymous No.3858502]

>>3858497
>you introduced America out of nowhere into an argument over Nazi Germany

Before the war, Americans LIKED Hitler.

[Anonymous No.3858503]

>>3858499

There's still a lot more than that. Not as bad as the Japanese "Unit 731" but we got almost as horrible with some experiments on civilians.

[Anonymous No.3858504]

>>3858502
I'm getting a little confused, champ. Is this discussion still about the occurrence of the Holocaust, or is it a shit-slinging contest at this point?

[Anonymous No.3858505]

>>3858501
>They just put you somewhere else where you could be useful.

I was talking about their government, faggot, and I'm right.

[Anonymous No.3858508]

>>3858504
I'm not lying. Before we entered the war we really did like Hitler. Schoolrooms even started doing the "pledge of allegiance" using the Nazi salute.

[Anonymous No.3858510]

>>3858505
Well they certainly didn't put their government where they were useful.

[Anonymous No.3858515]

>>3858504
Like this: pic related.

[Anonymous No.3858517]

>>3858510
I'm so sorry that you are the crazy fuck that doesn't know history.

[Anonymous No.3858519]

>>3858508
I'm not contesting that. But it seems like the conversation took a turn at some point, from the aforementioned Holocaust did-or-did-not-happen bickering to dredging up dirt for its own sake. I don't think any of us are arguing that Germany, or the people in it, are morally bankrupt; rather, bad things happened in a bygone era. Perhaps those things got more press than other events, but they are bad nonetheless.

[Anonymous No.3858522]

>>3858508
Yes, and...?
It should have been obvious that other countries committing atrocities is immaterial to the discussion of whether the holocaust happened or not.

If I beat up someone, it doesn't magically make the beating that someone else got not to be.

[Anonymous No.3858523]

>>3858519

See:

>>3858439

[Anonymous No.3858524]

>>3858522
I wasn't the one who changed the direction of this thread.

[Anonymous No.3858525]

>>3858523
"The holocaust isn't even the most rotten thing that humanity has ever done to itself"?

[Anonymous No.3858531]

>>3858525
Look out. Are you going insane, or are you making an honest statement?

[Anonymous No.3858536]

>>3858531
I'm trying to figure out what was special about the post you quoted. My quote was the closest thing I found to relevant in this context, but I'm still unsure what you're trying to say with itl

[Anonymous No.3858539]

>>3858531
Well, if you're Jewish, then it's the worst thing that humanity has ever done to itself.

If you're a historian, you know humanity has done FAAAAAAAR worse to people.

[Anonymous No.3858540]

>>3858536
I was saying that I didn't derail the thread.

[Anonymous No.3858554]

>>3858540
The Holocaust WAS a nasty piece of work. That still doesn't mean that Germans forevermore must bear the sins of their ancestors, or we'd all be responsible for uncountable horrors..

[Anonymous No.3858561]

>>3858554
Israel is still demanding reparations from Germany.

[Anonymous No.3858569]

>>3858561
And I do believe that falls under international relations, which is a Gordian knot of fault and blame which I don't care to untangle.

[Anonymous No.3858571]

>>3858569

Fuck your worthless knot. A knife will solve it in 30 seconds.

[Anonymous No.3858584]

>>3858571
Yep. It would be so much easier if Germans stopped being pussies and payed up.

Unfortunately, the legitimacy of reparation requests is pretty tricky, especially since the responsible generation has up and died.

[Anonymous No.3858586]

>>3858569
>that falls under international relations,

No, I believe that falls under "punishing you for the acts of your ancestors".

We could discuss the act of worldwide charity and goodness that was "The East India Trading Company".

[Anonymous No.3858589]

>>3858584

Don't forget the 100 trillion dollars your country owes the United States for defending you from planetary evil. You owe us, so pay up.

[Anonymous No.3858596]

>>3858584
Paid*
>>3858586
You have a point, but I suppose that you could argue that, if faced with reparations, a country could just wait ~30 years and go "HUEHUEHU NO CASH FOR YOU," under similar logic.
>>3858589
I am from the US, so that would be a pretty snazzy windfall.

[Anonymous No.3858604]

After rereading this thread, I have to say that the ho-ho-hoax is a lie.

[Anonymous No.3858605]

>>3858596
>windfall
If Obama could swing it, the democrats will be the kings of the hill for a few decades for fixing the economy in one fell swoop.

While the holocaust was certainly a disgusting piece of work (among other disgusting pieces of work perpetrated by other countries), what Israel has done since then isn't exactly something they should be proud of either. Getting economically squeezed like that would certainly stroke my justice-boner to climax.

[Anonymous No.3858630]

I think some of the points raised against the widely held view of the holocaust are certainly valid, of course many of them are just batshit crazy.

I definitely think we get a very pro-jewish anti-hitler version of it, and I think the truth isn't as bad as it is made out to be.

[Anonymous No.3858640]

>>3857730

No, I've been to multiple camps in Europe including the largest ones and the number of camps + the size of each camp makes me seriously doubt that THAT many people could have been killed in there in such a short time-frame.

You can't say this though, or you're a nazi supporting anti-semite and you'll be socially shunned by all the politically correct people.

I'm so glad to live in a free country.

[Anonymous No.3858650]

>>3858640
Instead of going by gut instinct, you might want to do the math.

Because your gut instinct is fucking wrong and if you keep relying on it, people will keep treating you like the retard idiot that it makes you look.

[Anonymous No.3858665]

The 6 million figure is obvious horse shit. It does the actual hundreds thousands who suffered and died during the holocaust a disservice to use their suffering for political gain.

[Opressed Jew No.3858725]

>>3858665
Shut up and give me money for my grandfather, you goddamn Nazi.

BAAAAAAAAAAAAW! THE ANTI-SEMITE IS OPPRESSING MEEEEE!

[brent No.3858902]

Thanks for the pleasant discussion guys