/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3812583]

Peak oil:
>If nothing is done, our civilization will go bye bye within the next 70-100 years, and there will be MAJOR economic problems and meltdowns within 20-50 years
>Almost no attention paid to by the media.
>Nobody cares, even though it has a strong possibility of affecting them when they're alive.

Global warming:
>Catastrophic consequences won't begin within about 200-300 years from now
>There would be increased climate catastrophe incidence (tornadoes, floods, etc), but this is nothing compared with the peak oil
>Lots of attention paid to by the media and by the people, entire movements dedicated to trying to solve it
>Most people alive today won't be affected by the global warming significantly at all

Why? I think we should solve both the global warming and the peak oil, but we should pay FAR more attention to the peak oil issue. About 20-30 times more attention than to the global warming.

[Anonymous No.3812593]

[Anonymous No.3812592]

We're already experiencing the effects of climate change (like the increased flooding of coastal areas). The vast majority of humanity lives by the coast.

[Anonymous No.3812596]

I'm pretty sure there's still enough oil for a hundred years.

Even if it's fifty it's not my problem, as cruel as that sounds. I literally can't do anything about it.

[Anonymous No.3812598]

>>3812592
We're already experiencing them, but they're insignificant to the problems the peak oil problem will bring.

[Anonymous No.3812599]

One affects only people living in affluent countries. Another affects every living thing on it.

[Anonymous No.3812605]

>>3812596
>I'm pretty sure there's still enough oil for a hundred years.

Our population grows while our oil supply decreases. Oil demand increases, and oil supply decreases, leading to far higher prices. This means that the economy would suffer enormous meltdowns, as virtually everything is based on oil. The cost of virtually every commodity and capital unit would increase. This means lots of companies would go bye bye, and huge unemployment would follow, making more companies go bust, as less people are able to buy their stuff.

[Anonymous No.3812608]

true

[Anonymous No.3812617]

The world economy would begin to decline significantly because of it within the next 20-30 years as well, and lots of people would be unemployed.

[Anonymous No.3812644]

I don't really care about either problem...

Compared to the eternity of non-existence, it matters not whether one lives a second or a hundred billion years.

Wealth can never satisfy a human's endless wants, while wisdom can and costs nothing.

[Anonymous No.3812649]

Aren't the oil companies the most invested in researching alternate energies before the deadline is met, so they can stay afloat? I wouldn't say there's not being any advancement. The oil is a finite resource, so wether we care or not about it, it's going to go away regardless.

[Anonymous No.3812686]

>>3812649
You're mistaking staying afloat for being able to charge us through the nose for the latest in energy innovation.

[Anonymous No.3812688]

I can't be fucked finding the links.
But for anyone interested in the topic.
Google "BP Statistical Annual review"
"Shell energy scenario's 2050"
"HSBC The Worlds energy energy in 2050"

Basically, among industry experts, it's commonly agreeed that oil WILL, reach peak, sometime between 2035 and 2050, all depending on future demand and discoveries.

As it stands, it appears to be commonly agreed upon that gas will be the replacement to oil, at this stage. However, in the long term, gas will still be a transitional fuel, before we go to something like electric or hydrogen(?) vehicles.

[Anonymous No.3812739]

>>3812688
>oil WILL, reach peak, sometime between 2035 and 2050

It has already reached it's peak. However, you probably mean when there won't be enough oil to sustain the huge world economy, which is true.

I've seen the BP statistics, and this is what they imply.

[Anonymous No.3812740]

Well solving either problem solves the other. Probably better off focussing on Global Warming because at least we will replace oil with a clean source.

[Anonymous No.3812745]

Fuck yeah!

can't wait to watch society burn to the ground. much sex will be had for all

[Anonymous No.3812747]

Excellent layman's video on growth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=SP6A1FD1
47A45EF50D

[Anonymous No.3812750]

>>3812745
>can't wait to watch society burn to the ground. much sex will be had for all

It won't collapse suddenly, though. It will be an economic decline which will keep getting worse and worse. More and more people unemployed, more and more poverty, less and less people being able to afford the most basic needs.

[Anonymous No.3812764]

>>3812750

wat do? invest in gold? mansions? heroin?

[Anonymous No.3812776]

fuck shit get krunk.

[Anonymous No.3812788]

Is there anything that can replace Petroleum for around the same cost of pumping out of the ground and shipping it world wide?
The stuff is used for everything, anyone know if some synthetic product could replace it?

[Anonymous No.3812793]

>>3812788
If it is, you better believe they're going to either keep it a secret til oil dies lest they get crushed, or they'll push out in sparse to keep the money rolling themselves.

[Anonymous No.3812795]

>>3812764

Invest in Gold, Lots and lots of GOld

[Anonymous No.3812796]

>>3812788

Electrical produced by LFTR's

[Anonymous No.3812798]

>>3812764
Buy food which can be stored for a long while and which is very cheap, so that you can eat when you will loose your job.

Ex: Cereals, noodles, etc

I'm not implying that the entire economy will collapse, but the economic situation will get far worse.

Also invest in gold, because the governments might start printing money massively because it doesn't have enough to run itself.

[Anonymous No.3812813]

>>3812796
That's only 1 thing. Don't know how truthful it was but there was a good story on peak oil on 60minutes and they showed just how many household products have petroleum used in them or used making them.

[Anonymous No.3812818]

>Population grows
>energy supply shrinks

Solution: Burn people instead

[Anonymous No.3812819]

>>3812788
>>3812793

What the fuck is this ignorant, tin-foil hat bullshit?

Petroleum and Gasoline are stupidly energy dense. We're not capable, yet, to effectively produce anything that comes close to that energy-density by any cost-efficient method. But there's nobody hiding the solution to the problem. It's a really difficult problem, and that's why we haven't solved it yet.

IMO, we're just gonna need to combine all of our various fuel alternatives (biomass, solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, etc) until we can reach high efficiency solar or until we can induce fusion of our own.

[Anonymous No.3812917]

>>3812818
We could use Africans for fuel and occupy their lands.

Then we will slaughter the people of the Indus and use them as fuel.

It's brilliant, it solves the problem of barbaric uncivil individuals, overpopulation AND our fuel crisis.

It's 3 birds with 1 stone!

[Anonymous No.3812964]

>>3812917

I think you got the right answer sir.

[Anonymous No.3812999]

>>3812819
coal. duh.

there is thought to be four times the energy of remaining oil reserves in unmined coal. this coal can be converted to liquid fuels.

[Anonymous No.3813014]

>>3812583
What about peak oil is a problem OP? I'm not sure if I'm missing the point but I don't see how this is a problem for a high energy society. Oh, I was about to go on to your next point but its global warming - same thing, why is this a problem to a society driven by nuclear fusion?

[Anonymous No.3813017]

>>3812999
>coal
We're running out of it and it will make the global warming far worse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_coal

[Anonymous No.3813019]

>>3812688
While I'm happy to listen to statistics in almost all situations, have you considered the fact that the people selling the oil might have some interest in increasing its value?

[Anonymous No.3813031]

>implying oil is a finite, rare, or precious resource
OH BOY, HERE WE GO

Even if we 'do' run out of oil, you honestly believe the global elite will just let their power slip away 'that' easily?

There's plenty of other natural resources out there to exploit and make a profit from.
All they need to do is find a way to choke the supply of it, (like they're doing with oil now) and give the illusion of scarcity to drive the prices up (sound familiar?)

Honestly. If the world suddenly knew just how much 'black gold' it was sitting on, the economy would collapse anyways as millions of people rioted, waking up to the realization that they've been scammed by the biggest ring of jews on the planet for centuries.
Same with most other resources, such as diamonds. Which are neither valuable, or rare.
Metric tons of the shit are just sitting around in mines in africa, but they only sell it a little at a time to keep profits up.

[Anonymous No.3813032]

You people are nut jobs. Humanity has been saying they were on the verge of collapse for hundreds of years now.

Some studies have shown the Oil actually replinishes itself in wells that had once been thought to be empty. And besides, we have other energy sources. The big oil companies will start slowly making the shift to use them once oil runs low. So start investing into them

[Anonymous No.3813034]

Sure is Malthusians ITT

The idea that we are about to run out of some vital resource and fall into a new dark ages is hardly new. And yet every time people fear this collapse, it turns out that the resource wasn't as scarce as had been thought (food, housing) or technological progress rendered its scarcity unimportant (wood, coal).

Conventional nuclear power can provide all the energy we need to sustain us until fusion is developed. Once the choice becomes nuclear or no power at all, nobody will listen to the environmentalists that have been holding back nuclear power.

[Anonymous No.3813043]

>>3813019
>While I'm happy to listen to statistics in almost all situations, have you considered the fact that the people selling the oil might have some interest in increasing its value

But they set the price at which all of their supply is sold, you retard.

Profit is largely determined by how competitive a market is. The more competition, the less profit. A monopoly gets lots of profit. However, it still sells at an equilibrium price. It doesn't 'limit supply'. It sells all what it has. It's just that people are willing to offer far more than it costs to produce it in case of a monopoly, and the monopoly, because of all the huge demand it has, sets a price at the level at which it can sell all of it's supply. It will keep doing it until the production costs are greater than the price of a unit.

[Anonymous No.3813048]

>>3813032
>>3813034
>>3813031
This.

...though it would probably be a good idea to get the fuck away from coal.
Its fine for grilling and other residential uses, but we're past the industrial coal age by a good 100 years or so.
Shits dirty as fuck to burn.
....not implying petrol is clean.. just 'slightly cleaner'

[Anonymous No.3813049]

>>3813032
>
Some studies have shown the Oil actually replinishes itself in wells that had once been thought to be empty. And besides, we have other energy sources. The big oil companies will start slowly making the shift to use them once oil runs low. So start investing into them

Idiot? We won't be able to make the shift before our economy is in utter ruins.

[Anonymous No.3813061]

>>3813034
>Conventional nuclear power can provide all the energy we need to sustain us until fusion is developed. Once the choice becomes nuclear or no power at all, nobody will listen to the environmentalists that have been holding back nuclear power.

But we won't be able to adapt to it before our economy is in utter ruins, especially considering the fact that very few are aware of the peak oil.

[Anonymous No.3813067]

>>3813049
durrr hurr, what is abiotic/sustainable oil?
thats why i said "slowly".

[Anonymous No.3813076]

>>3813067
>thats why i said "slowly".

Unless everybody starts giving a fuck about peak oil right now, we won't avoid economic meltdowns, because we won't be able to adapt other energy technologies fast enough.

[Anonymous No.3813100]

wow, i never realised sci was quite this stupid / denialist

> global power elites won't let this happen

HUR DUR yeah, the global power elites (who, contrary to your tin foil hat ramblings, are not omnipotent but rather general fuckwits who have made stupid decisions throughout history) will find some way or other of violating the conservation of energy. great point you fucking moron.

> this has never happened before so can't happen now

a new pinnacle of stupidity for sci. the existence of overzealous pessimists throughout history implies that nothing bad will ever happen. oh wow.

> oil grows in the ground

it's not even worth addressing how completely and utterly fucktarded and denialist this is. get the fuck out of sci and then get the fuck out of earth, your brain has even less worth than that of a fundamentalist christian.

[Anonymous No.3813168]

>If nothing is done
Something is being done in response to the high oil prices. Alternative sources of energy are becoming economically viable.

[Anonymous No.3813240]

>>3813168
And yet it's still rising. The effects those technologies have are usually very temporary. Like, a lot of people move to them, and then realize that they cost more and aren't efficient at all compared to oil, and then abandon them.

The results are big spikes.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3813253]

>only one mention of liquid fluoride Thorium reactors
What the fuck /sci/?

[Anonymous No.3813264]

>>3813240

Tesla, motherfuckers.

http://waterpoweredcar.com/teslascar.html

[Anonymous No.3813288]

>>3813240
It's not like you can suddenly start filling the tank with natural gas. People need to be confident that there won't be cheap oil suddenly rushing in to undercut their investments.

[Nuka-Cola tablet edition No.3813291]

>>3813253
Oil does a lot more than just electricity
Also LFTR is grid power, not car power, and not off the grid living

That said, peak oil is not fr a while. Our only real limittion is environmentalist limitations on driling in certain areas, and those damn NIMBYs

[Anonymous No.3813312]

if peak oil prediction is correct, then global warming is basically a non-issue. as oil production and usage wanes (and coal is not a replacement for oil in most cases) the expected doomsday scenario of global warming will never come. instead it is likely that with energy farming, the issue will be automatically solved.

[Anonymous No.3813314]

>>3813253

how much electricity has ever been produced by a thorium fueled reactor?

[Anonymous No.3813316]

answer to this is clearly Thorium

[Anonymous No.3813318]

>>3813049
>Idiot? We won't be able to make the shift before our economy is in utter ruins.

yes we will you fucking retard. thank supply and demand for that.

[Anonymous No.3813321]

I'm a conservative. I trust pseudo-scientific works put about by corporations. We can always trust corporations. Smoking doesn't cause cancer, it just causes me to take everyone's tax money while I screamed and belittle everyone who did so. I'm totally not a hypocrite or a Soviet sleeper agent at all.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3813325]

>>3813291
Waste heat from LFTR to produce dimethyl ether, ammonia and methanol

Pass law in Congress stating all cars sold in the United States (Sold, not made) must be flex fueled. This is like a +$100 difference in price and just requires more corrosion resistant materials in the fuel lines and modified software for the fuel injector. Wa lah, no more oil dependance. Now you can finally use oil for USEFUL purposes, not this bullshit burning. It's really like we're burning black liquid gold in our cars. It's inexcusable and downright retarded.

[Nuka-Cola tablet edition No.3813331]

>>3813314
A few megawats thermal by the oakridge test rig. They weren't cleared to actually set up any kind of turbines, but they watched the output heat very carefully

[Anonymous No.3813332]

>>3813321
i don't think even 10% of libertarians (and especially not conservatives) are randians.

[Nuka-Cola tablet edition No.3813338]

>>3813325
That was mostly hogwash, inny
Production of those chemicals is way more complex than just "add heat". It's probbly not going to be worthwhile for a while.

Grid power though? It can do grid power juuuuust fine

[Anonymous No.3813709]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvi_70sZV-c

Algae is the answer to replace oil
we can convert algae to bio fuel
currently we can produce 5000 gallons annually per acre

only need 10-12% of New Mexico's land mass to produce enough for the USA's current comsuption

[Anonymous No.3815393]

who gives a shit on peak oil? we will have electric cars etc.

[Anonymous No.3815479]

>civil engineer
>Any bath house I want
>300,000 pieces of gold a year

[Anonymous No.3815615]

>>3815393
> who gives a shit on peak oil? we will have electric cars etc.

Your entire society runs on Cheap Oil. You can't replace your trucks and trains with electric alternatives. What the fuck are you morons really thinking? Oh, that's right, you're not actually THINKING.

[Anonymous No.3815662]

The obvious solution is to dismantle the current infrastructure and build a completely new one that can better take advantage of electrically powered transportation.

[Anonymous No.3815667]

>>3815615
Violent Primate guy?
You're still here and braying?
Fuck off already, jesus christ.