/sci/ - Science & Math

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Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:14:55 2011 No.3809083 [Reply] [Original]

I cannot be the only atheist that hates most atheists.
They just annoy me alot of them, I mean, I see some at the age of 22 denouncing god, and I think "Really? 22? It took you that long to denounce god?"
It just makes me think that people nowdays don't think for them selves, since I have been an atheist since the age if 6.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:16:55 2011 No.3809091 Did you hear the one about atheist heaven?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:16:55 2011 No.3809092 >alot Yep, it's a troll.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:16:55 2011 No.3809095 shut up fag... you're not special

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:18:55 2011 No.3809102 >>3809095 It just annoys me, you see 20 year old hipster liberals just jumping on the bandwagon because it's hip and edgy, it pisses me right off.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:19:55 2011 No.3809107

>>3809083
some of us come from nice households and don't wish to upset our families. Imagine my 70 yo granny who's believed in god all her life and i tell her i don't ? worse still what if she starts to doubt her own faith. she'll feel like she's wasted all 70 years . whereas most ive only wasted 20

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:19:55 2011 No.3809111 >>3809102 you're only hating because you want to stand out from the atheist crowd

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:19:55 2011 No.3809112 Atheists are rightfully angered that in a godless world, the godfreaks are still insisting that their massive intergalactic ogre is somehow real and somehow a factor in anything.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:23:55 2011 No.3809141 >>3809112 I hear this spouted by atheists everywhere, yet they are the ones that always are forcing their beliefs on other people.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:24:55 2011 No.3809147 the only time it pisses me off is when atheists dig at religious types all "there are countless reasons why you're wrong!" even though they haven't bothered to actually research these reasons themselves, they've just taken other atheists' word for it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:25:55 2011 No.3809154 >>3809141 >atheism >a believe Try again

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:26:55 2011 No.3809157

>>3809111
No, it's because I think, I don't like people not thinking.
It annoys me people watching science programs and aspiring to people, THAT annoys me, since it takes ALL that, to make you denounce god?
Really?
No one takes a minute out of there life, to think about god?
I mean, I thought one day "I have never seen god...I don't believe he exists, I haven't seen him."
Then I dug deeper with research.
Same with Santa and the Tooth fairy.
>>3809147
Me too.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:27:55 2011 No.3809164 >>3809154 The belief in the absence of a god is still a belief.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:27:55 2011 No.3809168 >>3809141 Atheism isn't a belief though. It's a lack of a belief. Theism is the believe a- means not. so it's not atheism. So they are forcing a lack of a belief down someone's throat. That doesn't sound so bad.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:28:55 2011 No.3809174 >>3809164 The absence of god is the default condition.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:29:55 2011 No.3809180 >>3809168 *so it's not theism.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:30:55 2011 No.3809184

>>3809141
> I hear this spouted by atheists everywhere, yet they are the ones that always are forcing their beliefs on other people.

You mean they insist that goddies keep their stupid fucking religious standards out of the arena of setting public policy. And that's because Atheists are RIGHT, and the goddies are WRONG. *Provably* wrong.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:31:55 2011 No.3809190

OP, the question of God is not an easy one. There are people far more intelligent than you are and who have made real contributions to the society, that have believed in God their whole lives.

You make it sound like the question of God is so trivial that any 6 year old should be able to answer it.

Ignorant and condescending faggots like you give atheists a bad name, and are a reason why so many atheists hate others of their kind.

You are a sad excuse for a human being. As an atheist, I can truly say that I hate people like you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:33:55 2011 No.3809196 >>3809164 Only because the world belief is a bit broad. When an atheist believes there is no god, it's not quite the same as when a theist believes there is a god. Just like believing in gravity is not quite the same as believing your team will win.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:34:55 2011 No.3809202

>>3809147
> the only time it pisses me off is when atheists dig at religious types all "there are countless reasons why you're wrong!" even though they haven't bothered to actually research these reasons themselves, they've just taken other atheists' word for it

Take their word for it? Their word that there's no fucking evidence for this huge astral beast in the sky that speaks Hebrew? THERE IS NO SUCH CREATURE AS ANY RETARD CAN CLEARLY SEE.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:34:55 2011 No.3809206 >>3809190 It is an easy question to answer but god persists because the majority of human minds are fragile. and the majority of people are intellectually lazy so they seek shortcuts

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:34:55 2011 No.3809208

>>3809190

Nobody is asking six year olds to answer it. We're just asking anyone to answer it in a way that they can explain it to other people.

Six year olds CAN see through bullshit arguments, though. And this is mostly what you get in defence of god.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:35:55 2011 No.3809209

>>3809190
>implying I said people that are theists are bad people
Learn to read you fool, I said.
Well IT IS easy and trivial, it's like saying.
"OH, THERES THIS DICK MONSTER IN THE SKY AND HE RAPES KIDS AT NIGHT BUT NO ONE SEES OR HEARS HIM".
"Have you got any proof?"
"No"
You believe that?
Fuck off, I just refuse to believe in something that is impossible to prove.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:35:55 2011 No.3809210 >>3809196 Dude, your quote made me jizz my pants. I love you. (please be a hot chick)

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:36:55 2011 No.3809213 >>3809208 In other words, A child could answer but no one is asking them until they're socialised.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:37:55 2011 No.3809214

>>3809184

Just breaking it down; the biggest enemy of you following your own faith is being in a country ruled by those of another faith.

And since no two religions, no two sects, and no two people (really) agree on how to follow their faith, on what is good for the soul, the only way to defend this is to make government ignorant of the whole thing.

If you don't support the banning of pork, then you, in principle, must support secular government.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:37:55 2011 No.3809216 >>3809210 Shut up -I-It's not like I like you or anything~~

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:38:55 2011 No.3809224

Not only that, but the fucking annoying atheists who ruin it for the rest of us. "Herp Christians are retarded" Yeah, we figured that out a while ago but we don't go spouting it around like some fucking attention whore. These people is why atheism is despised by everybody else.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:40:55 2011 No.3809236

>>3809213

I don't think a child could really prise out why the idea of god is silly, why the foundation of religions are silly.

But they can know when the person telling them this stuff is talking out of their ass. If you get them early enough, and make it enough of a virtue in their minds to just go with whatever they hear, then they'll never question it. Or when they do, it will be a serious life changing moment.

But really, any child is able to have the ur-atheist problem, which is; I don't think you really know what you say you know about god.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:43:55 2011 No.3809251

>>3809224

I have to say, not only are these atheists rare, they also never reach the levels of poisonous rhetoric that religious people can reach.

Most of what people perceive as atheist militancy is really just fairly normal questions about why people believe what they believe. Removing some politeness you extended is not the same as being outright rude. Asking someone to stop sleeping on your couch after eight weeks of letting them stay there rent-free is not rude.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:43:55 2011 No.3809254

>>3809236
I was 6 and I questioned god, probably because I didn't like playing out like other kids, I just sat and did little experiments, I thought it was easy for a 6 year old to question god.
Since a 6 year old CAN think.
Since i'm british at school you had to pray.
>put your hands together
>our god who etc etc
What is this god person?
"He's the ruler of the world"
But where is he?
"He's everywhere, he's invisible in the sky"
But how do you know he's there?
"We just do"
That's dumb.
Then I just ran along

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:47:55 2011 No.3809279 There are some cultural environments where religion is appropriately humorous. The number of such environments is growing. Some day, the world will see.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:48:55 2011 No.3809282

>>3809208
>>3809206
>>3809209

Except that your dick monster has absolutely no reason to exist, whereas God does. Comparing the notion of a cause to our existence (i.e. God) to something completely irrelevant and pointless is a first sign of someone who knows nothing about the subject.

Furthermore, you clearly seem to have a particular religion in mind. Know, however, that there many views on what God is, and many of them are very abstract/complicated/thoughtful/etc.

So, again, trivializing this issue is just plain fucking retarded on your part.

TLDR: OP is a little child without any real academic achievements, so the only way to make himself feel somehow "smarter" than the rest is to be a disrespectful ignoramus.

How's Community College treating ya?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:52:55 2011 No.3809300 >>3809282 A good luck monster exists, no, really, prove me wrong, stop getting touchy, my point was that why believe in something without proof?

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 15:53:55 2011 No.3809306

>>3809282

I think the fact that nobody has any idea of what they mean when they say god, that it changes between religions, between sects, between people and even between conversations, does not make it more reasonable.

It really just makes it seems as though they want something like a god to exist, and they are willing to change exactly what they mean by it, in order to allow them to say it exists or could exist in response to any argument that comes up.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:00:55 2011 No.3809322 Very similar to OP myself, never remembering actively choosing atheism as much as never taking the idea of God seriously. Only once I realized that other people did did I become outwardly atheist (well, agnostic atheist to be specific)

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:01:55 2011 No.3809326 >>3809300 Backing up this guy. Curious to see how the other responds.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:03:55 2011 No.3809334 OP, are you me?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:04:55 2011 No.3809339 File: 173 KB, 567x640, 110704RD-4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] OP is mad

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:10:55 2011 No.3809356 >>3809251 Go to a college campus, and step into a kind theist's shoes for half a minute.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:12:55 2011 No.3809365 >>3809208 guy said He was God about 2000 years ago and proved it by walking out of His grave on the third day following His execution it happened whether you believe in it or not "the fool has said in his heart, there is no God" >the fool

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:14:55 2011 No.3809376

i dont know, religion seems troll to me but troll is the way of life.
just because you call a troll by a different name does not make it any less of a troll.

its not a question of if god exists, its a question of who will feed the troll.

and any reaction is a reaction, its like watching a really boring soap opera.. we all play our parts but those with the most screen time get the most food..

so yeah, life

drama incorporated, every bodies got to eat

right?

my god is a jealous god, but that was probably added in later when they discovered the ego.

i believed in a creator of the heavens and the earth, i think i have been short changed.

this is not what i signed up for, my ego was doing fine before i started looking for something that is not there.

cant stop now though, too busy being taken advantage of.

life after death.. cant wait.

lol its either the ultimate con job or the most bizarre test.

there is a god for definite, just waiting for my prayers to be answered...

well nobody likes a complainer.

lol i guess as an athiest you probably fight tooth and nail for your life.. or just live it.

as a religionist i gave mine up in the hope of god doing a better job with it.

...unemployed at the moment lol

mfw

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:15:55 2011 No.3809378 >>3809356 amen. the amount of vitriol and hate on the left is staggering

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:16:55 2011 No.3809388 Op, I too am butthurt at all of the atheist's showing off how atheist they are.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:16:55 2011 No.3809389 >>3809376 hang in there, brother. i will pray for you, and you worship Jehovah Jirah, the provider.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:17:55 2011 No.3809395 Can we stop this foolishness? They should rename the internet to the God debate ground zero. Nobody knows the truth and anyone who claims to is a charlatan and a liar.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:18:55 2011 No.3809399

also, op, all of these hipster or fugly 12 year old atheists often destroy our argument against religion, because whenever a retard on youtube starts speaking out about how christians are evil, all of the comments are "hurr durr typical atheist shoving his jesus hating beliefs on other people"

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:19:55 2011 No.3809403 >>3809395 How do you know they're liars? That's like saying Jesus christ was a liar. Although he was and every other profit. God doesn't exist, untill proven otherwise.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:19:55 2011 No.3809404

>>3809395
i'm heartened that you accept the notion that there is an objective truth

many do not, to their folly

weigh the evidence, and see which side is more compelling; the side that claims to have heard from God, or the side that claims there is no god in the entire multiverse

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:20:55 2011 No.3809413

>>3809403
by the time you get the proof you require, it will be too late for you to profit by it

which is why as a christfag i must insist on telling you to repent and be saved, while you still live in a state of grace

the time of the gentiles is almost full, ripe, complete, and the harvest is coming

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:20:55 2011 No.3809416 >>3809403 >Charlatan, liar detected.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:21:55 2011 No.3809418 >>3809404 Of course there must be an objective truth, or else there would be no purpose for the universe to exist. Anybody who is intelligent realizes this.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:22:55 2011 No.3809424

>>3809356

Being subject to discussion about your beliefs from people who don't agree with you? I can understand why this would be jarring if it was the first time it happened in your life. College campuses may be the only place in America where Christians, or other religious people of some stripe, are not dominating the discussion by sheer volume and sheer numbers.

People can be jerks, whether religious or irreligious. But in my experience, the irreligious do not have as many of the worst offenders in the area of impolite discussion, and the irreligious are never as offensive as the worst of the religious in this area either. Compare any of the Four Horsemen to any given apologist. The absolute loudest and most eager to offend that we have on our side are still way behind the average publicly known apologist.

I'm not arguing that atheists have a right to be jerks, or that they are never jerks. I'm just saying, keep it in perspective here.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:22:55 2011 No.3809425 >>3809418 and now you believe in a purpose for the universe. do you have any idea how close you are to knowing God?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:23:55 2011 No.3809431 >>3809425 I have no idea, although I thought I did at one point.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:24:55 2011 No.3809437

>>3809424
no, there's no arguing; there are vicious attacks, physical attacks, psychological attacks; outright persecution.

which is to be expected when you follow Jesus, who received all that, and much worse

but don't for a second try to tell me atheists are rational and compassionate.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:24:55 2011 No.3809442 >>3809431 go back to that point and begin anew; if you seek Him, you will find Him

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:25:55 2011 No.3809444

>>3809418

As the only things we know of that assigns purpose to anything, the honor and the burden of providing and creating purpose to our lives, and to the universe, is on us. Passing the buck may seem like the easiest way out of this responsibility, but it really does belong to the childhood of our species.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:25:55 2011 No.3809449 >>3809444 in other words, life is meaningless, if the givers of meaning are transient have you thought this through completely?

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:28:55 2011 No.3809469

I’ve told plenty of kids about the stars and galaxies and the Big Bang and I have never seen fear in their eyes. Only amazement and curiosity. They want more. Why do kids swim in it, and adults drown in it?

What happens to reality between our youngest years and adulthood? Could it be that someone promised us something so beautiful that our universe seems dull, empty, even frightening by comparison?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:30:55 2011 No.3809485 >>3809442 Him? Sounds like a cult to me.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:31:55 2011 No.3809492

>>3809437

I haven't seen this. I'll have to take your word on it.

The worst I've seen is Christians being offended when people disagree with them and being outraged when this disagreement is public. I don't know if this counts as persecution. Really, for me, disagreement with my views would have to reach a very extreme level before I considered it persecution. And revocation of privileges I previously held, immunity to criticism, special institutional support, would not count.

As for physical and psychological attacks? I have never even heard of this happening anywhere but from online Christians or on Fox News. Has this happened to you?

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:31:55 2011 No.3809494

>>3809469
suffer not the little children to come unto Me, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven

unless you are born again, you will not see heaven

that wonderment in a child's eyes gets replaced by cynicism and fear as they grow older; to be saved, to be born again, is to take a leap of faith that negates all of that negativity, all of that cynicism, and return to the wonderous joy of a child in discovering God

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:31:55 2011 No.3809501

i dont know, religion seems troll to me but troll is the way of life.
just because you call a troll by a different name does not make it any less of a troll.

its not a question of if god exists, its a question of who will feed the troll.

and any reaction is a reaction, its like watching a really boring soap opera.. we all play our parts but those with the most screen time get the most food..

so yeah, life

drama incorporated, every bodies got to eat

right?

my god is a jealous god, but that was probably added in later when they discovered the ego.

i believed in a creator of the heavens and the earth, i think i have been short changed.

this is not what i signed up for, my ego was doing fine before i started looking for something that is not there.

cant stop now though, too busy being taken advantage of.

life after death.. cant wait.

lol its either the ultimate con job or the most bizarre test.

there is a god for definite, just waiting for my prayers to be answered...

well nobody likes a complainer.

lol i guess as an athiest you probably fight tooth and nail for your life.. or just live it.

as a religionist i gave mine up in the hope of god doing a better job with it.

...unemployed at the moment lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:32:55 2011 No.3809504 >>3809449 Like I say, we are the only things that assign meaning to anything. To say that we ourselves are meaningless is absurd.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:32:55 2011 No.3809506

>>3809485
it's an active process; it's not belief in a rigid set of rules, or a dead man, it's the search for someone who is also waiting for you to search for Him

He's closer to you than you could ever think; He hears your cries, and He wants you to reach out to Him

it's a supernatural relationship between Creator and created that is meant to be, and becomes, the greatest love in the universe

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:33:55 2011 No.3809512 >>3809492 yes, but in no way near what happens to coptic christians in egypt, or evangelists in red china, or missionaries to south america. they just disappear.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:43:55 2011 No.3809562

>>3809512

The worst enemy of any such group is always another, dogmatic, authoritarian group being in power. I don't doubt that the Muslims persecute people of another religion, or the communists persecute people of any religion.

One must oppose such unresponsive, unquestionable authorities, whether they justify themselves with god or dialectic or science or anything, since they are always really invented by men, and they always end up being run by cynical, selfish men, who naturally want to stamp out any potential rival groups. Religion has most of the 'scaffolding' required to form such authorities, based on the idea that some people know what god wants and they can tell you. It takes more work to turn secular institutions into such authorities, though, as we can see in Soviet Russia, Red China, Khmer Rouge, they can end up doing far more evil than religious authoritarianism.

I argue religion because it is superstitious nonsense. But I really don't care, I just argue it when it comes up. I don't care about other superstitions like astrology, homeopathy, whatever, but I will tell them what I think of them if it comes up. Ditto with religion.

I oppose religious or secular institutions, wherever they take steps towards being such authorities. And I support the removal of those parts that form the basis for these authorities, such as the imposition of religious laws as a law for all.

I know, off topic and tl;dr, but I just need to explain a bit of why it is not inconsistent to oppose such atheistic regimes as the communists have established, even though we agree on one position on one question on one subject.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:53:55 2011 No.3809620

>>3809562

could you imagine that the people who best represented religion were those that would feel most alienated by it today?

after all, whenever they were sent they were sent to people who had wandered away from god the most.

jesus did not come to the people and say, hey your all christians lets all go to heaven.
mohammed did not say hey your all muslims lets go to heaven.

they all came to people who had already professed belief.

much like the religions of today.

..they all said you could get to heaven, by following the rules and could potentially become believers.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:55:55 2011 No.3809631 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMR-yPA4lsY&feature=player_embedded#!

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 16:56:55 2011 No.3809641 >>3809620 So which religious laws? You would be comfortable living in a state that had Hinduism as the basis for it's legal system?

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:01:55 2011 No.3809658

>>3809562
you say that as if those very evil regimes did not intentionally "kill" God, and remove every trace of Him in their despotic kingdoms. it is not a coincidence that such evil was done in the name of "not-God", because all good things come from God, and from nowhere else.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:05:55 2011 No.3809668

>mfw atheists compare god to unicorns, the tooth fairy and leprechauns

seriously, fantasy creatures cannot be compared to the logical belief in a supreme creator both responsible for the creation of the universe and the basis for human morality. something cant come from nothing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:06:55 2011 No.3809671 >>3809083 >self-righteousness

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:07:55 2011 No.3809675

>>3809641

well it depends on how far hinduism has strayed from its first teacher.
its like how did the egyptions build the pyramids? knowledge has a habit of becoming distorted and forgotten.

a physics major could well explain and teach today, the concept of physics being lost to generations to come seems absurd.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:07:55 2011 No.3809676 >>3809668 Typical theist, can't even mfw

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:08:55 2011 No.3809682

>>3809668
>something cant come from nothing

Ohh no, here comes the First Cause argument againt! The entire argument is based upon the premise that something can't come from nothing, and you have no idea whether that premise is true! In fact, here's an equation that governs a process by which something can come from nothing, just to cheer you up:

ΔE • Δt ≈ ℏ

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:10:55 2011 No.3809686 >>3809682 your definition of nothing contains too much something

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:11:55 2011 No.3809691 >>3809675 EMP hits the first world men are driven back into caves you still think a physics major could put together this neutrino experiment re ftl particles? doesn't it concern you that we CAN'T rebuild the pyramids?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:11:55 2011 No.3809693 >>3809686 That something being nothing? Please elaborate. (It doesn't make the argument valid, btw; you must first still prove your statement that something can't come from nothing)

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:12:55 2011 No.3809696 >>3809682 a bunch of weird symbols arent gonna prove anything if what you said is correct we'd be able to observe things being created completely without causation, but we cant

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:14:55 2011 No.3809703 >>3809691 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvx5gSnfW4&feature=channel_video_title Ahem

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:14:55 2011 No.3809704

>>3809696

The equation doesn't prove anything; no. But you are wrong in claiming that we have not observed something coming from nothing: we have. The equation I posted is just the equation that governs that process, and obviously doesn't count as evidence.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:15:55 2011 No.3809706 >>3809693 nothing has no gravity, no entropy, no QM magic, no fluctuations, no nothing nothing not something you can imagine building this universe on by accident nothing

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:15:55 2011 No.3809711 Continued from >>3809704 Sorry, I forgot to mention that these quantum fluctuations arise without causation.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:15:55 2011 No.3809712

>>3809658

I don't think so. They were men doing things that evil men with absolute authority are wont to do. You see the exact same thing in any organisation that allows a few people to have such power, religious or secular.

>>3809668

The point being made here is what atheists think of god is what (most) theists think of the Easter Bunny. It's not something they deny, it's something they find silly. All it would take to convince me of the Easter Bunny is some good evidence and arguments. The same with god.

>>3809675

An unknown amount, just like every religion. I'm asking you what happens when god has told the people that they have to do XYZ to protect their souls, but you know god said PQR is the only way, and the two are incompatible.

Do we think a state that enforces gods law is the best way, or one that allows each to follow their own interpretation, so long as they do not step on one another's toes in the process?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:16:55 2011 No.3809716 >>3809706 If there was nothing, then there was no god. I'm waiting for a proof of the key premise that "something cannot come from nothing without causation", still.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:16:55 2011 No.3809717 >>3809704 >scribble something on paper >pretend it explains the universe >2011 >ISHYGDDT

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:18:55 2011 No.3809722 >>3809711 no quantum no quantum fluctuations nothing quit moving the goalposts; either something can come from nothing, or it can't you can't just keep adding shit to "nothing" to get your desired result

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:18:55 2011 No.3809724 >>3809717 >not reading posts

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:19:55 2011 No.3809725 >>3809711 but virtual particles disappear as soon as they come into existence, they might as well not exist at all

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:19:55 2011 No.3809727 >>3809722 see >>3809716

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:19:55 2011 No.3809730

>>3809712
isn't that entirely the point? that men are evil, and barring allegience to a higher power, are unrestrained in their evil doing?

why is that not the point?

only when men become obesient to God do they find true righteousness; otherwise, everything is just feeding hungers and desires at anyone's expense. and nothing on earth satisfies, and stays satisfied

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:20:55 2011 No.3809733 >>3809724 do you see the difference in creating the universe and having an equation that "predicts" the universe?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:21:55 2011 No.3809735 >>3809725 again, more something. it's always something, and a buttload of time, and infinite possibilities, that are the bedrock of foolishness

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:22:55 2011 No.3809740

>>3809725

"According to the cosmogonical model of inflation, the quantum fluctuations that existed when inflation began were amplified and formed the seed of all current observed structures."
Regardless, this is not the point. I simply introduced the idea of quantum fluctuations to refute someone's assertion that "something cannot come from nothing". The assertion is unfounded.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:23:55 2011 No.3809744

OP, I agree. I agree for a different reason. I hate atheists who go around and make atheism look like a religion and shove it down people's throat like it's one. I've been an atheist since I was in 2nd grade (I was born to a catholic family.. they didn't like my choices too much). I'm also a physicfag.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:23:55 2011 No.3809747

>>3809730
This is what annoys me about theism as well, they say "If there's no god to believe in and no rules to follow, you're evil"
I choose to be a good person, because goodness is inert in alot of people.
A LOT of religious people are JUST NICE BECAUSE THEIR RELIGION TELLS EM TO

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:23:55 2011 No.3809748

>>3809712

if there is a god, he can enforce his own laws.

as a religionist this puts me at odds with most religionists.

its part of my own understanding AND i would assume this would put you at ease with me forming any government.

now about those rules,
you follow them and you understand god will enforce his own laws.

that should help you control your own ego..
splash a dash of karma in there.
something about an eye for an eye.
something about temptation.. which opens the door to an unseen enemy.

which opens a door to a world unseen,

leads onto heaven and hell concept.

etc etc

all very civilised dont you know.

...and then the people had to teach there kids.

let you know how that went

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:23:55 2011 No.3809749

>>3809716
there was nothing in our universe that was created by God in His universe, the third heaven.

from the third heaven, where God lives, and which is NOT subject to our universal laws, God spoke the earth and our two heavens into being; willed them into being, and saw that they were good.

the earth we live on; the first heaven we breathe; the second heaven contains the stars, etc.

the third heaven is NOT above the first two; it overlaps. it is close. people in the third heaven can talk to people on earth.

God is closer than you think, and loves you more than you'll ever know, until you realize how much agony He went through to redeem you

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:24:55 2011 No.3809753

>>3809733

I'd just like to clarify, btw, that I am a "christfag", but it just irritates me when people use arguments for God that have been refuted oh-so-many times before (i.e. the first cause and design arguments).

But yes, the two are distinct - although not necessarily mutually exclusive.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:27:55 2011 No.3809760 >>3809740 if there is nothing, there are no quantum fluctuations

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:29:55 2011 No.3809763 >>3809748 i forgot to reiterate there is definitely an external god, just in case you misconstrue my concept.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:30:55 2011 No.3809766

>>3809747
you wouldn't know good from evil if there were no God; you have cherrypicked the part you like and discard the rest

you judge yourself more favorably than you judge anyone else on earth; you judge yourself at your best, and by your best intentions, and your best results.

other people you judge at their worst, and imply the worst motivations for their worst behavior.

they do that too, to you.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:30:55 2011 No.3809767

>>3809730

The point is that there is no higher power.

Or more to the point, there is no way to tell the difference between things ordered by that higher power, between people who genuinely talk to or for the higher power, and those who are just delusional, or hucksters. Investing power in someone on the basis of their having access to the higher power would only work if we could tell the difference between true and false revelation, at least one that doesn't rely on whether you like what is revealed or not. As it stands, it is just another way for a man to gain power in the real world. And given the actual statements made by men who claim to talk to god, their contradictory and divisive nature, we know that almost every single one of them was lying or insane.

The best way, the best way we have yet invented, is to avoid investing such power in one person. To make sure those who have power are accountable to those they have power over. Religions, by their very design, are not really compatible with this way of doing things. But religious people usually do get along with this way of doing things.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:31:55 2011 No.3809769

>>3809748
God does and will enforce all of His laws; it's just our impatience that He has not yet done so that leads to a misunderstanding that He will not

He abides, so that more will be saved. soon, however, He will no longer abide, the number of the gentiles will be full, and He will snatch His church off this rock

and unleash Hell

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:32:55 2011 No.3809773

>>3809749

"All share a common destiny - the righteous and the wicked, the good and the bad, the clean and the unclea, those who offer sacrifices and those who do not.

As it is with the good,
so with the sinful;
as it is with those who take oaths,
so with those who are afraid to take them..

This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: the same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of people, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterwards they join the dead. Anyone who is among the living has hope - even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!

For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.
Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun."

-Ecclesiastes 9:2-6

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:33:55 2011 No.3809776 >>3809766 I for one, am a good person, because I have a conciseness, and it seems to me, that some religious people, think that conciseness is just religion. It's absurd.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:33:55 2011 No.3809778 File: 147 KB, 800x700, trollorgy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:33:55 2011 No.3809783

>>3809753
i have no idea how you could know God and think that He lied to Moses

He told Moses how He made the universe, in exquisite detail, with precise language, and none of it entailed QM theory.

QM theory is for people who can't wrap their head around a God who created everything, yet knows their name

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:35:55 2011 No.3809786 >>3809767 why not ask the "higher power" yourself?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:36:55 2011 No.3809794 >>3809776 >not understanding the Argument from Morality Without some external "source" or arbiter of morality, there can be no objective morality. And what is subjective morality? Just individuals' opinions with no basis in reality.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:37:55 2011 No.3809798 >>3809786 And if I ask and find that, in fact, the Romans had their metaphysics a lot righter than the Christians, does this invalidate your experience?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:38:55 2011 No.3809800 >>3809776 you judge yourself good, but there are none good but God you have called yourself God, and are now a blasphemer you who sought to be good is now among the worst of creation

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:39:55 2011 No.3809803 >>3809794 So, give an example of a judgement on some act that is objectively morally correct, and how you know that this is so.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:39:55 2011 No.3809806

>>3809783

I don't believe that God lied to Moses. (Also, I know that it's traditional to assume Moses as the author of the Pentateuch, but in modern times this is believed among scholars to be false).

Anyway, let's assume for a second that our scientific advancements don't exist and never have existed: we are at the same level of scientific advancement as we were in 2000 BCE.. the Design Argument is still not sound, and the First Cause Argument is still not sound. They both rely upon premises that we simply cannot prove to be true! "Complexity requires design" and "everything is caused", respectively.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:40:55 2011 No.3809807

>>3809798
of course not; you cannot argue yourself into heaven, nor can you argue another person into heaven

but if you ask whether the meek followers of the slain Lamb of God are worse than the romans who used said christians as living torches to light their orgies, well, again, the choice is clear

you are either for Jesus Christ, or against Him. so says He, and He is the judge of all

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:40:55 2011 No.3809812 >>3809803 I don't understand.. my whole point is that objective morality doesn't exist, and you are asking me to give you an example of objective morality?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:41:55 2011 No.3809813 >>3809806 let all men be liars, and God hold the truth; otherwise, how should He judge the universe? we know more information, and have less wisdom, than our forefathers. we are less than.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:43:55 2011 No.3809819 >>3809807 So how do I know that one persons experience of what god wants is more valid than the countless others which contradict his? How can it be that most people who earnestly seek spiritual truth get the answer totally wrong?

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:43:55 2011 No.3809823

>>3809813

"Much of the confusion of all orders of beings, high and low, in their efforts to discover the Father-Infinite, is inherent in their limitations of comprehension. The absolute primacy of the Universal Father is not apparent on subinfinite levels; therefore it is probable that only the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit truly know the Father as an infinity; to all others personalities such a concept represents the exercise of faith."

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:44:55 2011 No.3809824 >>3809813 All men, including Moses?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:45:55 2011 No.3809830 ITT: People who need to think for themselves. >Impling that any form of buddhist is superior to atheism.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:45:55 2011 No.3809832

>>3809819
you have to work out your OWN salvation with fear and trembling

you cannot rely on another, or a group, or good intentions; you have to work it our yourself, and soon, because this pardon you've been offered by grace has a time limit on it, and you are not promised tomorrow

today is the day of salvation. today.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:45:55 2011 No.3809833 >>3809824 Moses lies ≠ moses lied when writing the Bible

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:46:55 2011 No.3809835

>>3809813

God judges the universe yet he cares about things as cosmically petty as blasphemy? And why should he care that we are for him? He rules the seemingly infinite universe and the opinion of one meager human should matter to him?

Nothing adds up past a certain point. You can spout your Christian logic but it only gets you to a certain primitive level. Beyond that you have no explanations.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:47:55 2011 No.3809839 File: 174 KB, 540x1773, coworker.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] replace co-worker with OP and this was me reading your post. Stop being a faggot

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:47:55 2011 No.3809840

>>3809823
then, we will know Him as He knows us now; that will be a glorious day indeed. now, we see Him through thick dark smoked glass, and are still in awe

then, we will be able to look upon His face, and worship Him properly

but to those who saw Jesus, they also saw the Father, for Jesus and the Father are One; and who has not Jesus has not the Father

so says Jesus, the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, who knows the ending from before the beginning

selah

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:48:55 2011 No.3809841 >>3809840 You sound like a mad man.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:48:55 2011 No.3809844

>>3809835
>implying you know what is important and what is petty for a necessarily transcendent being
>blasphemy seems petty to me, so it must be petty to a transcendent being
>why why why

Just because we can't answer "why" questions does not mean that there are no answers.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:49:55 2011 No.3809849 >>3809824 Moses was a murderer; you think without God he would have led Israel from their captivity? no, the scriptures are inspired by God, whether it be through the pen of Moses, or David, or Paul

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:50:55 2011 No.3809852

>>3809832

Even knowing that almost every person who try to find this out are certainly in error, and with no way for me to judge if my own findings are true or false?

I have thought about this. And I have come to the conclusion that nobody who says they know anything about god actually does. And that I have seen nothing in my life to suggest that a god exists. This is the result of my spiritual journey, and, per your post, a perfectly valid conclusion.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:51:55 2011 No.3809859 >>3809849 Out of curiosity, why do you believe that scripture is God-inspired? Aside from 2 Timothy 3:16, I mean.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:51:55 2011 No.3809862

>>3809835
rejecting the answers written in the bible thousands of years ago, and argued over ever since, does not mean there are no answers

God revealed His nature, and part of His nature that He revealed is that He is a jealous God, and will permit NO other gods before Him. He is also a thorough God, and has looked in every possible place in all of the possible universes and has found none like Him.

He is as He says He is, and does what He says He will do.

you are either with Him, or against Him. there is no third choice, and there is no second chance after death

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:54:55 2011 No.3809871

>>3809841
if Christ be not raised from the dead, then i am a mad man, and all who believe in Him and in His glorious second coming

i know that the way of the cross doesn't make any sense to you, because you are not saved, not yet

when you are saved, the cross makes perfect sense; it is the perfect sacrifice of the perfect Lamb of God, come to take away the sins of the world, and to shed His holy blood, so that He might heal us, and transform us into what He is

held together by the Holy Spirit, who binds the Father and Son now

it's madness if it's false

it's heaven if it's true

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:54:55 2011 No.3809873

>>3809844

If I, a creature of limited intelligence, can easily spot the absurdity of something, how could a being infinitely greater intelligence not?

Through science I have learned that we are simply inanimate matter (no different from that which makes up your desk chair) that reacted over billions of years to come together and form me, a human being from a cosmically insignificant planet. Less than a SPEC of the universe.

How can your logic force you to believe that a being of infinite power and knowledge would care about our PETTY actions on our PETTY planet. WE ARE SO SMALL. THERE IS NO LOGIC TO BE FOUND.

Please view this if you don't already understand how tiny we are:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:56:55 2011 No.3809885 >>3809871 Agreed. Now if we only had some reason to think that Jesus was raised from the dead, we'd be cooking with gas.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:57:55 2011 No.3809886

>>3809852
there are many ways that seem right to a man, but they all lead to death

your reasoned certainty that Jesus is not the only way to salvation, to heaven, will end you up in the same place as the satan worshipper who kills babies and drinks their blood.

there's a difference between you and him, but not in eternal destination, only in degree of evil. to deny that God exists is also evil.

but you are correct; the road to life is narrow, and few find it. the road to destruction is wide, and many find it.

be one of the few; find the narrow path, Jesus Christ, and salvation through His shed blood.

there is no other way to salvation, and you have been offered this pardon, this salvation, out of His grace and mercy.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 17:59:55 2011 No.3809896

>>3809859
because it only makes sense when the Holy Spirit opens your understanding of it; it's like a foreign language otherwise. there is infinite detail and infinite precision in it, such as like nothing on earth, and no matter how long you study the scriptures, you always find something new that you can't believe you never saw before, or understood before, or saw the connections before.

and also 1 tim 3:16

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:00:55 2011 No.3809905

>>3809886

And almost every single other religious person in the world disagrees with you, with exactly the same degree of certainty, and with exactly the same opinion of you as you have of them.

When you can convince the people who really want to find the spiritual truth of the universe that you are right, you can try to convince the people who have not yet seen a reason to think that there is a spiritual truth.

Or god could convince me right now, if it wanted.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:01:55 2011 No.3809906

>>3809873
i have been through the Total Perspective Vortex and came out just fine. you know why?

because the Son of God Himself died so that i could be saved

this entire universe is built around us, for us, and through it, a relationship with the Creator.

however, all of the evil in the entire universe is concentrated on this rock, so don't ever ask yourself why bad shit happens; ask why bad shit isn't happening continuously

protip: one of the names of the Holy Spirit is the Restrainer

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:04:55 2011 No.3809923

>>3809885
we have much to ponder.
if Christ be not risen, why did His enemies not produce His body, and thus quell christianity?
if Christ be not risen, what changed His followers from paranoid cowards to world changing titans?
if Christ be not risen, who exactly did those hundreds of people see claiming to be the risen Christ, and performing even more miracles?
if Christ be not risen, how did christianity, a religion based around His resurrection, survive? and flourish?
if Christ be not risen, who did Saul see on the road to Damascus?
if Christ be not risen, who did the disciples talk to on the road to Emmeus?
if Christ be not risen, who ascended to the Father to prepare a place for us?
if Christ be not risen, why is it the Year of our Lord Two Thousand and Eleven?

there is a substantial amount of logical evidence demonstrating that the enemies of christianity, Rome and the joos, would have done everything in their power to kill christianity at its inception, and indeed attempted to do so.

and failed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:06:55 2011 No.3809926 >>3809905 have you asked Him to? have you opened your heart to Him?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:09:55 2011 No.3809936 Sure is empirical reality in here.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:10:55 2011 No.3809947

>>3809923

We have few documents that suggest these things, and all are written by people who were already part of the cult of Jesus, and only generations after the events in question. I do not accept them alone, for the same reason I would not accept the truth of a book written by a followed of David Koresh talking about his miracles.

Impartial sources merely describe the existence of a man called Jesus, in single lines.

That these claims are impossible to investigate should not make them more reasonable to accept.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:11:55 2011 No.3809951 >>3809926 Yes.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:15:55 2011 No.3809961

>>3809947
several of those claims are obvious

Jesus changed the calendar
Christianity is a religion based on the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and it exists
Rome and the joos did everything they could to exterminate the weak early church, and failed

these are not things that require faith; they are obvious

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:16:55 2011 No.3809966 >>3809951 if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. God bless you and keep you as you turn toward Him.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:18:55 2011 No.3809978 >>3809966 trolling /sci/ with religious garbage is so fun!

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:20:55 2011 No.3809988 >>3809978 seeking and saving those who are lost, in the face of supernatural attacks, is draining; knowing that maybe one /b/ro will be saved, however, makes it all worth while maybe that /b/ro will be you one day

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:21:55 2011 No.3809990

>>3809961

They are obvious, and trivial with regards the truth of the foundational claims. Has a secular organisation, or a false religion, ever expanded from a small number of followers to a large number, or avoided eradication by hostile authorities, or had a lasting effect on culture? The answer is yes, they have.

So we are still left with the dubious and biased nature of the initial documentation. This must be explained first, and we can deal with the growth and evolution of Christianity from a small cult at the end of the first century to a world religion some other time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:23:55 2011 No.3809995 >>3809990 well, rather than explaining it, don't you agree it might be a good idea to actually read it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:29:55 2011 No.3810005 A lot of atheists tend to have a big ego. Like OP for example. That's why most atheists annoy me.

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:32:55 2011 No.3810012

>>3810005
well, their position is untenable. they claim that there is no God, and they have no proof. further, they have a very limited scope of investigation. further, they do not even have access to all the information here on earth.

no, it's a fool who says in his heart there is no God

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:34:55 2011 No.3810019 OH YEAH WELL THAT'S JUST, LIKE, YOUR OPINION, MAN!

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:35:55 2011 No.3810023 >>3810019 totally watching this tonight NOBODY FUCKS WITH THE JESUS

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:36:55 2011 No.3810024 I don't hate most atheists, only atheists who go on /sci/ and make threads about atheism.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:37:55 2011 No.3810031 >>3810024 so, only the ones you're exposed to gotcha

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:41:55 2011 No.3810039 AGE 6? Fuck that shitcunt. I was born atheist you sheeple pice of shit!

>>	Pig disgusting quisling Mon Sep 26 18:42:55 2011 No.3810044 I hate other athiests because I'm terrified of Christian disapproval and I hope that by throwing other atheists under the bus I can gain their favor.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:44:55 2011 No.3810047 >>3810044 lol

Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:51:55 2011 No.3810076

i have no doubt that when the second coming actually comes around, you will have to be more than christian in name for a get out of jail free card.

i doubt the name of the religion will matter, more so what the people of it represent.

its easy to say accept christ, but what if those same people do not accept him....

again.

what i meant to say is you have been threatening in someone elses name for too long..

if you had good to give to the world, surely they would have sought it from you.

just speculation and conjecture but something to think about for the still god fearing.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 18:56:55 2011 No.3810111 >>3810039 This. At least some of us don't have retards for parents.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 26 20:28:55 2011 No.3810589 >>3809083 I became an atheist when I was 14 and now at 16 I'm still sure that only old people believe in Jesus. Thr bible is just not deep enough for me.

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