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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3791530 No.3791530 [Reply] [Original]

Why can't we travel faster than the Speed of Light?

I think the Neutrino's found to go faster than the Speed of Light just a day or two ago at CERN warrants this conversation.

Light is not a physical entity, it just is. It's a wave, so who is to say that nothing can go faster than it? 50 years ago we thought the Sound Barrier was a literal barrier that could physically not be passed, and now we have missiles and jets that go 3-5 times faster than the Speed of Sound.

Who is to say we can't go faster than Light?

>> No.3791541

LOL mathematical thought experiments

>> No.3791539

>>3791530
E=MC^2

>> No.3791546

>calling light a wave in a conversation about theoretical physics


ISHYGDDT

>> No.3791552

>>3791539
>>3791546

I'm literally 100% unlearned about this crap. I was always taught, even in the Uni, that Light was a wave?

And how does E=MC^2 prove that you can't go faster than light?

>> No.3791557

God damn it. First the universe kicks physicists in the family bosons. Now a bunch of people who haven't even heard of special relativity keep asking about FTL.

Is this really progress? If so... I don't know what to say.

>> No.3791560

>>3791552

>Not being taught duality
>Everybody laughs at you

>> No.3791571

Why don't we just build a rocketship out of nutrinos?

>> No.3791576

>>3791530
>>3791552
E=mc^2 is a result of special relativity, which assumes the speed of light to be constant as shown by Maxwell. Light is both a particle and a wave. Energy is transported via photons, but otherwise they behave like waves.

>> No.3791578

>>3791552
E=MC^2 proves nothing, it's an equation.
Let's see...
1. The theory of General Relativity is universally accepted and we have lots and lots of evidence that says that it is (mostly at least) true.
2. The theory of General Relativity predicts we can't go faster than light.

That's how science works. You make theories that fit the data, then see what the theory predicts.

>> No.3791593

>>3791571
If the Earth were made of Neutrinos, you'd fall straight through to the center.

>> No.3791594

Light is an illusion. You're traveling faster than light right now. You just can't tell.

>> No.3791605

>>3791594
STRING THEORY
M THEORY
FUCKING DIMENSIONS
IM HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH

>> No.3791619

>>3791605

>M Theory

pls no

>> No.3791622

>>3791605

>M Theory
>There are really multiple universes that are impacting each other every trillion years that inject energy for a "big bang"

People actually...believe that shit?

What the fuck?

That's the most baseless claim ever, almost as bad as religion.

>> No.3791625
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3791625

>>3791530
>Neutrino's found to go faster than the Speed of Light

NOPE. We don't know that. It will be at least 5 years before we can confim anything. Until then SHUT-THE-FUCK-UP ABOUT IT WILL YA!

>> No.3791648

>>3791622
>That's the most baseless claim ever, almost as bad as religion.

Welcome to modern physics.

>> No.3791659

What the fuck is String Theory and M Theory?

There good videos on it?

>> No.3791670

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6554528/Through.the.Wormhole.S02E07.Can.We.Travel.Faster.Than.Light..
HDTV

Enjoy

>> No.3791687

>light is made up of photons.
>photons possess wave/particle duality

NOT JUST WAVES!

>> No.3791698

>>3791659
String Theory: As the movement of a string in front of a cat increases, so too does the probability of the cat attacking said string.

m Theory: The number in the middle of a set of numbers is considered the median. This theory has quite a bit of proof behind it already, I'm not sure why it isn't a law yet.

There, you have your answers, tell your friends.

>> No.3791714

>>3791622
WELCOME TO THEORIES 101

>> No.3791724

>>3791714

So theories are meant to be completely baseless and put entirely on faith?

I guess Evolution is faith based too, on that token?

>> No.3791728

Does anyone have a link to the old thread? was it archived?

>> No.3791734

>>3791724
You're implying people believe in it 100% already and it has become law of the land.

>> No.3791735

All you mother fuckers are forgetting about the Tachyon Particle.. That's if it exists

>> No.3791743

>>3791724
Not this shit again.

Also, i'll remain sceptical until the results are repeated and verified.

>> No.3791744

>>3791734

Well until it's a law (IE: Thermodynamics, Gravity, etc.) NO ONE should believe in it and teach both until one is fact.

It is, after all, JUST A THEORY.

>> No.3791746

>>3791724
Evolution is the brain-child of incompetent theorists, that believe the baseless experiment conducted by Schrödinger in the 30s proves that dolphins are the precursors of modern raccoons.

>> No.3791747

it's all relative.

>> No.3791756

There is no mathematical reason why we can't go faster than the speed of light.

The only reason it is a 'law' is because if we could go faster than the speed of light it should violate causality, allowing for events occurring before they were caused.

the only reason we can't go faster than the speed of light is because our common sense tells us this is absurd.

there is no mathematical foundation for it...many prominent physicists including stephen hawking have tried and failed to fined one.

>> No.3791754

>>3791744
are you against the Theory of Relativity as well?

>> No.3791763

OP.
Do you really think scientists would make such a bold claim that NOTHING can go faster than the speed of light just because we haven't seen anything that has so far?

Don't be so naive.
The reason we claim nothing can go faster than light is NOT only an observation, but it comes directly from einstein's theory of special relativity.
His equations explain very well many phenomena we observe that would have no other explanation without relativity. GPS systems would be much less accurate without relativistic corrections. Certain planetary motions would be unaccounted for without relativity.

This framework that explains so much requires that nothing with mass can travel faster than light.
So it is not just an idle statement that old grumpy scientists ignorantly claim to be true based on their intuition.

It is a direct consequence of one of the greatest theories in science known to man.
and ON TOP OF THAT, it has been an observed fact. (possibly until now, but the neutrino thing still isn't conclusive)

>> No.3791764

Maybe neutrinos can just be in two places at once or seem like they do and it's not really travelling faster than light?

>> No.3791794

If neutrinos are faster than light, how come light is the fastest thing in the universe?

Checkmate athiests.

>> No.3791796

>>3791756
Incorrect. The theory of constraints disproves your statement. Maybe you should conduct your baseless assessments more thoroughly, before coming to irrational conclusions.

>> No.3791800

>>3791754
>2011
>still believing in relativity

I expected more of you /sci/

>> No.3791802

>>3791763
relativity and information moving faster than the speed of light could be compatible if you drop out common sense notion of causality.

There's three things:

1. relativity
2. information traveling faster than the speed of light
3. common sense notions of causality

choose two

>> No.3791813

>Why can't we travel faster than the Speed of Light?
Because we're not neutrinos.
Phycisists expected this all along

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard-Model_Extension

>> No.3791818

>>3791802
Information can't be moved faster than light. I always wonder why people believe in this.

>> No.3791822

>>3791763
Just adding to this.

The difference between this and your "sound barrier" argument, is the following:
there was never a physical principle upon which our modern view of the universe literally prohibited an object to go faster than sound. It was only a mechanical obstacle, not a physical one. If you asked a physicist if anything could go faster than sound I'm sure they would have said it's possible, but would be difficult.

But now, what we have here is something you could almost call a physical law of our current understanding of the cosmos. and it says that this cannot happen. Not that it is difficult, but that it is physically impossible. Because our equations say you can always increase the momentum and speed and everything is peachy from your reference frame. But from another observers frame you will still go faster, the catch is that it will approach a limit "c". It will get closer and closer and closer but never reach it.

People who don't understand limits, and the fact that "everything is relative" have a hard time understanding the reasons we say nothing can go faster than light.

>> No.3791838

M(v)=Mo/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)

The mass at velocity v is equal to the rest mass divided by the square root of 1 - the velocity squared divided by the speed of light squared.

Plus in v = c
You get Mo/sqrt(1-1)
or Mo/0
Divide by 0 is a big no-no

>> No.3791847

>>3791822
The entirety of your post was extraneous to the on-going topic. The cosmos wouldn't "exist" without a Human mind to perceive it, so, logic is a "technicality" that is the product of a mind -- which in turn, is the result of millions of years of evolution.

>> No.3791865
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3791865

>>3791756
Lol, Have you heard that object's mass is increasing when you travel faster. When object's speed is close to the speed of light its mass --> infinity. Thats why you cant go faster than light. It would require inifinite energy to push object faster than light.

>> No.3791868

It's not a matter of belief you idiots.

Any worthwhile physicist will tell you this, when we say "nothing can go faster than the speed of light in vacuum" there is a little parenthetical statement that should go along with it.
"(in the framework of relativity)".

Physics has realms of applicability of all of its principles.
We don't go applying classical mechanics individual particles anymore do we?
Yet we still don't go around saying "newton was a retard, see we now know that all of his shit is only an approximation to reality"

No, we still take it as valid within its realm of applicability.

The problem is when people go "well what does relativity say about things traveling faster than light?".
It doesn't. It says it's impossible.

So quit pinning the blame on physicists. It's relativity that would be wrong here. That's it.
It's not a belief, it's simply ONE of our many frameworks for explaining the natural world. If it turns out to behave differently it's still not going to change, classical physics, thermodynamics, quantum mechanics, etc...
It only means one piece was wrong, and it will be replaced with a new piece.

Anyone talking about "belief" and science needs to just gtfo seriously. It just shows that you don't know the first thing about what we are discussing here, or even science in general

>> No.3791881

>>3791868
If it moved faster than light, than E=MC2 is wrong.
That means most of physics is wrong.

>> No.3791878

>>3791865

No, it would take infinity to REACH c.

It would take <span class="math">more[/spoiler] <span class="math">than[/spoiler] <span class="math">infinity[/spoiler] to get past c.

Like, x/0 not-a-number to get past c.

>> No.3791884

i pose to you gentlemen, the nature of the 'Tacyon' particle, a particle which is the inverse of normal matter across C, thusly, a particle which can not travel SLOWER than the speed of light? would a field generator designed to utalise these FTL particles solve this proplem.

also on a unrelated note, time is relative. But it was never specified what to.

>> No.3791895

To get to the other side.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Why'd the neutrino cross the road?

>> No.3791901

>>3791884

There is no logical way to interact with a tachyon, so how the fuck would you utilize it?

>> No.3791902

>>3791895
smallchuckle.jpg

>> No.3791910

>>3791796
>>3791865
no that post is correct. Read a book on special relativity, it's really fascinating stuff, or just have a look here:

http://zidbits.com/2011/04/why-cant-anything-go-faster-than-the-speed-of-light/

also, btw traveling at the speed of light doesn't imply infinite mass it implies zero mass. That's why photons are massless.

another sidenote- people used to think neutrino's were massless and traveled at the speed of light as well, until it was discovered that they had a very very tiny but nonzero mass.

neutrinos are really strange particles that we don't know a lot about. they respond only to the weak nuclear force so it's hard to interact with them. they're passing through your body right now and are unaffected by the forces of gravity, electromagnetism, and strong nuclear.

>> No.3791931

>>3791910

>until it was discovered that they had a very very tiny but nonzero mass

Last I recall, we didn't actually know if they had mass or not and just sort of assumed they had a small amount due to the way they (rarely) interact with matter.

But still don't actually know.

>> No.3791941

>>3791910
If your previous post is correct, then how is it that the Raccoon inhabits three continents of Earth, pertaining to present time that is. If anything you said retained even a modicum of validity then Earth would be a desolate wasteland, and Mars would currently be a pristine utopia.

>> No.3791957

>>3791941
lolwut?

>> No.3791967
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3791967

>>3791868

science should be given the same respect as one treats a religion ie: everything stated by it is undeniable FACT and evidence to the contrary should immediately be thrown away.

And people tell me science can't be a religion...

>> No.3791973

>>3791941
WTF?

Trololo?

>> No.3791993

>>3791941

>> No.3791995
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3791995

>>3791895

>> No.3792007
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3792007

>>3791941

>> No.3792022

>>3791901
the solution is simple as an idea, however application will take an un-econimical amount of resources, time and personel to reach any kind of fruition. Despite the illogical nature of tacyon interaction, new forms of science and understanding must be created, new base calculations and rule must be writen and decades of research must be conducted in order to bring a shimmer of potential to a tacyon based device. Despite these problems, there is still the potential, reguardless of the irrationality of it. Nothing is Untouchable as long as the board is still in motion...

>> No.3794243
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3794243

Problem light?