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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3790880 No.3790880 [Reply] [Original]

Asteroid mining: How can you make it work?

>Hard mode: Asteroid must be moved into low earth orbit

>Nightmare mode: Asteroid must be safely 'crashed' onto the surface in one piece for easy mining.

>> No.3790894

Antarctica: It's a good place to land an asteroid.

>> No.3790899

>>3790880
Crash it into the moon. Mine there.

>> No.3790905

Crash it into some huge African or South American slum town. Solve resource scarcity, overpopulation and world hunger in one fell stroke.

>> No.3790910

Crash it into the middle east.
Mine it there.

>> No.3790916

>Nightmare mode: Asteroid must be safely 'crashed' onto the surface in one piece for easy mining.
No. Because the mass of an iron asteroid would far outweigh a mountain. It would sink into the crust, even if gently set down.

Getting it into earth orbit would be best. LEO would be bad. You would fuck with the tidal system AND debri would rain down AND roche limit would rip it apart. Bad move.

No putting it into a lunar orbit or some other stable distance would be best. Using drones to mine it. In this case robots > human mining. Danger danger danger.

I would see a robot hauling ship system running it to a processing station in orbit, where it would go to earth via drop-pods or a space elevator. A 'cheap' space elevator would lower a package to low enough orbit to para-chute it in or something.

Human operators on the mining facility could control the robots. Unless we have a good enough robot-system to allow robots to repair robots remotely with no need for an on-sight operator.

>> No.3790912
File: 312 KB, 1000x620, 1304098995091.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3790912

>implying we have the energy budget to even consider moving an asteroid
>hur bur dur solar sails bur a la purp

>> No.3790925

>>3790905
And create a dust cloud that would kill billions.

Nice thinking fuckwit

>> No.3790931

>>3790925
What part of "solve overpopulation" is not clear to you?

>> No.3790939

>>3790925
>Solve research scarcity, overpopulation and world hunger

>> No.3790953

Unless the asteroid brings with it enough fissionable material or petrochemicals to still have positive value relative to the energy any mining proposal would consume to execute the same, then fuggetabowdit.

>> No.3790958

The resource to even pull off such a feat.......why the fuck even harvest its resource?

We simply need a network of robots going back and forth collecting materials from it to earth. Some kind of device would have to keep it up to pace with earths rotation around the sun but out of range of influencing earths gravity.

It would be a slow but steady way to harvest it.

>> No.3790965

>nudge mineral-rich rocks into moon

why is this not feasible?

>> No.3791026

so with a lot of funds and research done we could literally get a mountain of gold.
Now what?

>> No.3791265

http://arxiv.org/abs/1108.4767

Thank me later, faggots

>> No.3791286

>>3790880
'Humans will be forced to mine asteroids in the next 100 years or so due to depleted resources as a result of corporate fascism."

-Tesla, 1934

>> No.3791322

Surely a geosynchronous orbit would be best...

>> No.3791334

>Smash it into the moon
You now have a sudden renewed interest into going to the moon.

>> No.3791476

Bamp

>> No.3792065

>>3790958
this. slow and steady is the best strategy for the vast distances spanned in interplanetary travel. Japan is leading the way with both asteroid sample return and solar sail research!

>> No.3793592

>>3792065
>asteroid sample return
How are they doing that?
My guess: they launched a probe lunar-lander-ish thing, that after landing will scoop up some asteroid, then blast off on a slow-boat trajectory into earth orbit.

>> No.3793611

>>3790916
> It would sink into the crust, even if gently set down.
Not a problem. It'll just be another mountain t strip mine.
Unless you mean it would sink straight through.
Unless you mean that in the process of sinking it would cause massive earthquakes.

>> No.3793618
File: 113 KB, 448x352, 1274425102509.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3793618

I'd bring the Enterprise within a few feet of the asteroid and use the deflector shield to lightly nudge it to Earth, while simultaneously using the tractor beam to keep it from going too fast.

Fuck, that was an easy on OP. Got any more?

>> No.3793627

>>3793618
Dude, what the fuck? You can't bring the Enterprise into this discussion faggot.

>It was destroyed. Remember?

>> No.3793629
File: 166 KB, 620x450, rare-earth-map.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3793629

Why would we go to the asteroids for mineral resources that can be had on Earth? The only ones they contain that are problematic to mine on land exist in large, unusually rich deposits on the ocean floor.

Once we begin to exhaust these deposits, then asteroid mining will begin to make economic sense.

>> No.3793640

>>3793629
Is there a good method by which to mine these desposits?
The only thing that comes to mind is a large, wide equal-atmo dome from which drones will mine in and expand outward from.
Unless the pressure would be too great, even in gaseous form.

>> No.3793648

>safely
>implying any country it landed in wouldn't be the richest country for 1000 years

>> No.3793664

>>3793629
>why would we mine asteroids
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
>one asteroid could supply 2004 metal requirements for iron nickel ore for several million years
There's probably mention that like ONE asteroid is worth like 50,000,000,000,000 or some greater ridiculous amount of money because the amounts of platinum and gold in many of them.

>> No.3793681
File: 268 KB, 650x472, deepseamining2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3793681

>>3793640

>Is there a good method by which to mine these desposits?

They do it with simple four legged or treaded robots that use a bucket wheel excavator on the end of an arm to carve up deep sea hydrothermal vents. (pic relate.) The debris is sucked up a hose to the surface then carried to shore for refinement. A Brazilian mining company has plans for modular refineries that can be installed on the ocean floor so that what's sent up is a refined, finished product.

>> No.3793687

There is no point in mining asteroids for the benefit of Earth. Earth is at the bottom of a huge gravity well and that makes such efforts extremely uneconomic.

If there was some sort of space elevator in place, then there's even a possibility of sending processed materials to Earth from an asteroid mine. Without one, there is ZERO possibility.

Asteroid mining is for the purposes of bootstrapping a space-based civilization. But we will never build that, since Earth-based wealth will be required to even get to that level, and we will never obtain the minimum amount of such investment from Jewish bankers and their subordinate governments.

Asteroidal mining will therefore never happen. EVER. Because in order to throw off the yoke of Jewish financial rule, we will invoke the Last War, which will destroy our technological surface civilization and lead to the eternal pastoral future of Humankind. And then some ecological spurious event will eradicate the surviving niches that Humans will inhabit, and then the race will go extinct.

THE END.

>> No.3793690

>>3790880
>Move asteroid into LEO
>Land asteroid on Earth
Neither of those are logical. The quarry comes to the deposits, not the other way around.

>> No.3793694

you can't crash it into the moon. large enough debris might be scattered that would at the very least threaten the mining operation if not the earth itself. using solar sails or something to pull an asteroid into moon-orbit is more feasible but you still have the risk of something happening. i mean think about, you have the potential for real-life super-villainy if somebody bad should get hold of the asteroid tugboat controls.

captcha: pertinacity ulesbu

yes, captcha, you tell these dykes what's what.

>> No.3793701

>>3793664

>There's probably mention that like ONE asteroid is worth like 50,000,000,000,000 or some greater ridiculous amount of money because the amounts of platinum and gold in many of them.

And yet we can get the same metals here, at the same rate, producing the same profit. Just not for as long. Remember asteroids cannot be mined all at once, they are mined at the same rate or slower than on Earth or in the sea. So the profit per quarter is the same or less. All it means is that an asteroid mine would continue operating for centuries versus a few decades for a seafloor mine. Compare the investment required for each and the seafloor mine wins.

>> No.3793702

We're going to need to be able to reenter something as big as a BA-2100 in one piece to have any chance of asteroid mining

>> No.3793707

>>3793687

You again. Bored of Stormfront?

>> No.3793710

>>3793702
what about sending up a bunch of rockets to latch onto and slow and guide the progress of the asteroid as it comes down?

>> No.3793724

Highly-advanced drone-operated space vehicles with the capacity to compensate for high speed and powerful gravitational forces, allowing them to attach to the surface of asteroids, compensate against or negate their momentum, and "tow" them away for mining.

>> No.3793725
File: 38 KB, 582x317, Asteroid capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3793725

>>3790912
http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/27112/
a some slow pushing for a good amount of time (2-3 weeks) shouldn't take too much energy.

>> No.3793729

>>3793707
Hi mad, not him, but happy to see you anyways.
I expected you would be happy to see asteroid mining done?

>> No.3793739

>>3793724

Alternatively, mining while attached to the asteroids. Think mosquito.

>> No.3793743

>>3790880
Most people will tell you that they'll just wave a magic wand.

I'll tell you, we'll use mind melds.

>> No.3793759

>>3793729

>I expected you would be happy to see asteroid mining done?

I am, but it's step three and we've yet to complete step two. It's like discussing how to terraform when we've not yet put a base on the moon or mars.

The riches of the sea will create the same economic boom that centuries of fossil fuel use did. It will create, once again, an economic climate that permits grandiose space exploration projects to receive sufficient funding. We need that wealth, and those resources, to continue sustaining our present standard of living in spite of a growing population with burgeoning energy demands.

For now, let space be the frontier of scientists and astronauts. Let us insutrialize the ocean first, so that with the resulting influx of precious metals and edible biomass we can then industrialize space.

>> No.3793771

>>3790916
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=1442

I just how we don't try to endow the robots with emotions so that they might get butthurt over being over worked. esp. if they are remotely operated this shouldn't be a problem.. anything within earth's orbit will have a very small communications lag.. plus give the robots a program to do in case of a com. timeout, hard neural networks for auto-problem solving, etc.

>> No.3793773

> asteroid whipping through space
> plot its trajectory and movement
> drone lands on surface when asteroid has entered "close enough for our drone to reach" distance
> extracts minerals
> detaches and returns before reaching "too damn far for our drone to fly back" threshold

It would be a highly mathematically-driven operation.

> We're planning to intercept Asteroid #1008928u3812. In order to do this, we're going to need you to send your drone out to such-and-such coordinates to refuel, then push even further out to such-and-such coordinates to intercept its orbital path in the months leading up to it. Given the speed and trajectory of the asteroid, you'll have a window of about eight minutes to extract materials, before your drone is beyond reasonable return range.

>> No.3793775
File: 53 KB, 497x598, 1311634241951.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3793775

>>3791265
>>3793725
Holy fuck, this is an amazing idea. We should do it!

Also, pic related.

>> No.3793779

>>3793701
We CAN'T get the same metals here. Most of the processes require sifting through like 99.999% waste. Then the refineries have to be in place, then you have to find people who're willing to work for the pitiful profit you make from harvesting something measured in less than parts per million.

I don't you understand how enriched the material is, and how ridiculously cheaper it is to produce it.

>Seafloor mines
>no technology that could even nearly feasibly deal with the environment
>let alone actually work at the depths
>Asteroid redirection can be done now, with existing ion based technologies for max efficiency.

>> No.3793798

I wonder what crazy shit they will find on Sedna

>> No.3793812

>>3791265

Wouldn't trapping NEO's of a size that would warrant mining them for minerals be extremely difficult and dangerous? Not even in the "could crash to earth" sense, but would we be able to plot it a precise enough orbit not to destroy existing satellites?

>> No.3793824

>>3793629
Don't rob this from me Mad Scientist! Scarcity is the only thing that is going to get space colonization going!

>> No.3793826

>>3793812

By the time we're ready to move NEO's into LEO we will be in the process of removing satellites in favor of ground based neutrino FTL communication

>> No.3793827
File: 76 KB, 300x348, deepseaminingrobot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3793827

>>3793779

>no technology that could even nearly feasibly deal with the environment let alone actually work at the depths

But this is wrong. Those robots exist. They are being used right now, as we speak. Google "Nautilus Minerals".

Seafloor mining is not some speculative future technology. It's being done right now by several private entities and five nationalized mining development programs including China's.

>Asteroid redirection can be done now, with existing ion based technologies for max efficiency.

But seafloor mining IS being done now. Specifically because it's cheaper and more practical with current tech than asteroid mining, which is NOT being done right now. Reality reflects my position on this issue.

>> No.3793833

>>3793826
>FTL communication
>FTL
insta-ignoring

>> No.3793837
File: 38 KB, 1122x784, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3793837

Nightmare mode.

>> No.3793840

>>3793773
... once in a 2000+ year chance.. better to push it into orbit so you can just take ur time digging off it.. and not have to have a now-or-fuck-all-in-the-future scenario.

also doesn't it make our species look like total badass if we can lasso one of these badboys?

>> No.3793865

>>3793837

Parachutes are useless in space you fucking moron, is this to protect us from an asteroid already in our atmosphere?

>> No.3793866

>>3790880 Asteroid mining: How can you make it work?

Use a robotic spaceship which can act as a tether a to bring asteroid into orbit for dirt cheap.
Crush into manageable size in an orbital crushing device and bring lootz down to the surface through an orbital elevator for dirt cheap.

Safe but will only work on small asteroids. But dirt cheap.

I imagine that's how they're going to do it once we build some elevators.

>> No.3793872

>>3793840

> once in a 2000-year chance

Not if you're constantly charting asteroid paths and planning windows where you could intercept them.

> if we send a fleet of drones out now, we'll be in a position to intercept the Argos 14 asteroid in four years
> we project that we can mine X amount of materials for every drone attached to Argos 14 within the intercept window
> we're sending Y amount of drones, with an estimated Z amount of net-gain on our investment

>> No.3793873

I'm more interested in what KIND of NEO's there are. NEO's are worthless if they have nothing worth the effort no matter how close they are.

What also interests me is the methods we will use. Mining in micro-g is completely different than what we are used to. It's like starting over with stone tools.

>> No.3793883
File: 27 KB, 360x270, deepseamining.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3793883

Also:

>>3793779

>We CAN'T get the same metals here. Most of the processes require sifting through like 99.999% waste.

On land, yes. In the ocean, ore deposits are considerably more pure. This is why it's economical to mine precious metals from the deep sea in the first place; They require less refinement as they are much higher grade than ore deposits in terrestrial mines.

http://www.nautilusminerals.com/s/Projects-Solwara.asp

>Then the refineries have to be in place, then you have to find people who're willing to work for the pitiful profit you make from harvesting something measured in less than parts per million.

See above. Seafloor deposits are abnormally high grade. You're thinking of gold sublimation, a process abandoned in the 1970s for the reasons you've already specified. This is a different process, one that has already proven to be economically viable.

>I don't you understand how enriched the material is, and how ridiculously cheaper it is to produce it.

Likewise. You seem to have been wholly unaware of the fact that seafloor mineral deposits are around six or seven times higher grade than ore deposits in traditional mines. Why didn't you know this? You behave as though you're an expert on the topic yet you didn't know something this basic.

>> No.3793888

>>3793866
Why would you occupy the space elevator for days just to bring minerals down? Just drop them down in a reentry vehicle.

>> No.3793889

>>3793872

That would work well for a sci-fi story. Fits right within the mining framework of plotting resource deposits, labor cost, etc.

>> No.3793927
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3793927

>> No.3793940

>>3793773
>>3793872

sounds the most feasible ITT because it relies on a lot of existing mathematics and logistical planning rather than crazy theoretical technologies. We already know how to chart the path of space objects, and we already have drones that can land on asteroids.

>> No.3793949

When we're ready to start establishing real space-based infrastructure, then we'll start asteroid mining. As has already been pointed out, the resources asteroids contain can be harvested more cheaply and more easily on Earth.

>> No.3793971

>>3793940
> crazy theoretical technologies
like what?

>> No.3793990

>>3793888
Because a reentry device will need maintenance and you'd still have to bring the devices back into orbit.
And I guess I was a bit vague. I don't expect them to use the elevator. They might incorporate some kind of flexible (but sturdy) light tubing around the elevator cable they can use to shove down non breakable stuff down. It might have like valves or something every couple of hundred meters to slow the fall.

>> No.3793992

Lets capture Hally's Comet and put int in L1 as a museum for mans lust for adventure

>> No.3794005

>>3793992

Yeehaw.

>> No.3794007

>>3793992
>as a museum for mans lust for alien space babes
FTFY

>> No.3794219

>>3790880
>Nightmare mode: Asteroid must be safely 'crashed' onto the surface in one piece for easy mining.
Just how 'gently' would it have to come down to avoid massive dust clouds and earthquakes?

>> No.3794237

asteroid mining would be very interesting economically. there's so much material on an asteroid that, if one were mined, there would be such an influx of material it would become essentially worthless. to pay for going into space and all that nonsense, the company in charge would have to create an artificial scarcity of said materials. this gets further complicated when competitors start mining the same stuff

>> No.3794247

drop comet on africa

win/win situation

>> No.3794277

>>3794247
Why would we drop a comet instead of an asteroid?
Is there something better about them I don't know?

>> No.3794288

>>3790880
>Hard mode: Asteroid must be moved into low earth orbit
NO FUCKING WAY anyone would allow you to do that! One fuck-up and you cause a MAJOR catastrophe!

>> No.3794295
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3794295

>>3794277
They're cooler.

>> No.3794296

>>3794288
I suppose I should have said NEO, eh?

>> No.3794346

>asteroid covered in ice
>nuclear battery heats water in chamber
>steam blasted out a nozzle
>steam rocket the asteroid in

>> No.3794358
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3794358

guys, guys.... fuck the ocean floor, fuck asteroids. unfortunately, most of the new mining tech invented this century is going to deal with how to efficiently mine our own fucking waste dumps.

get some robotic miners in there, sift through shit, compile appreciable amounts of every usable substance ever, return to base with load, drop off Wally-style. Rinse (alot) and repeat.

>> No.3794359

>railgun on asteroid
>load asteroid material into railgun shell
>fire
>railgun shell is on a rope, mass is released, at end of rope shell stops and is pulled in
>reload shell with more material
>and as you're moving along you're also making the asteroid lighter and faster

>> No.3794381

>>3790880
> Asteroid mining: How can you make it work?
Don't take any of it back to Earth. Fuck Earth. You live in space now. Mine what matter you need straight out of an asteroid and just add it to your ship. Space is only a hard commute when you start in and go back to the bottom of a fucking gravity well.

>> No.3794631

>>3793940
>>3793773
>>3793872

That WOULD make a good framework for a sci-fi story.

Just imagine.

You've got this 20-year contract that's finally coming to fruition. The company which sent the drones out and drew the contract up has long since liquidated -- now you've got a half-dozen companies each controlling a drone and entitled to a share of the profits. Maybe the expedition is insured, and so each of them stands to profit if it fails -- but they can't be caught sabotaging it, or they'll incur the damage. And then you've got the actual insuring body, which stands to lose a great deal of money, and so would be keeping a very close eye on things.

Mite b cool.

>> No.3794681

>>3794631

Then an old mining automaton from an ancient alien civilization awakens on the asteroid when these drones get close, takes them out to protect the resources it was programmed to harvest, and in the end it all looks like an insurance scam to people back on earth. First contact turned into a farce.

>> No.3794685

>>3794681
but the insurance agency KNOWS. and this becomes the precedent for the next story in the series!

>> No.3794831
File: 203 KB, 800x1129, 1316711248975.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3794831

>>3794685
these are the aliens

>> No.3794978

>>3794831
My only complaint about that picture is that femGoku shouldn't be wearing a bra. He's too dumb for that.

>rhizosphere oneaver
What's a rhizosphere? It sounds real.

>> No.3795025

>>3794381
> Don't take any of it back to Earth. Fuck Earth. You live in space now.

And Earth's resource controllers aren't dumb, so they know as soon as they make the multi-trillion-dollar investment of putting your cranky ass into permanent facilities in space, you will conveniently forget to return on that investment, and just work for your own benefit.

Result: No one with real resources will invest in creating a space civilization. Therefore it will never EVER happen.

Did you ever wonder why billionaires DIE? It's because they are so Jew-like focused on making money and keeping control of resources, that they completely lose sight that they should have devoted their spare billions to the technologies of life extension. THAT is how we know Humans are essentially violent simians with only a thin veneer of technical intelligence. If people are so hell-bent on being competitive and controlling, that they forego life itself, then there's no hope. Those sorts of people control the resources, and they are acting like apes.