/sci/ - Science & Math

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780675]

Hello! I'm Acetylene. I like to bob around with my acetylene friends and my impurity molecules. I'm all very random and nobody knows what the fuck is going on because I'm in a solution-phase environment! Chaos and disorder!

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780683]

>>3780678

Freedom, again... But where are the impurity molecules? I only see Acetylene here!

What is that rotor... Aww hell naw.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780678]

What... What is that?

Oh no! I'm trapped in a binding site that discriminates in favor of linear non-polar molecules!

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780690]

>>3780683

Somebody help! I'm trapped in another binding site! What is that thing over there?

[Anonymous No.3780696]

is that a real game? where can i get it?

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780697]

>>3780690

One of my internal bonds has broken and bonded with that Germanium-capped tooltip! I'm being carried away!

Finally I see... I'm in a machine-phase system! There are no solutions, only vacuum, and all the atoms have their positions and velocities controlled!

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780700]

>>3780697

I'm trapped in a conveyor belt! And it's all rigid, not squishy and wet like the proteins I'm used to! How does this even work? I thought biology was the only nanotechnology!

[Nuca-Cola !dbLFTRZqOI No.3780701]

good luck building something like this with no defects

protip; it will be assembled by viruses

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780703]

>>3780700

It seems that the principles of mechanical engineering hold at the nanoscale when you are using an infrastructure based on rigid, stiff covalent crystals like diamond...

... This place is huge...

[Anonymous No.3780704]

>>3780700

This looks awesome. Can you post a full picture? It looks like you're taking pictures of random sections of it

[Anonymous No.3780705]

Hey OP, I used most of your family and friends last week to weld a set of pullup bars. How do you feel about that?

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780708]

>>3780703

I feel nauseous... I'm being thrown into another tooltip!

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780714]

>>3780708

What is that other tooltip? It looks dangerous!

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780717]

>>3780714

Shit! I'm being robbed of one of my Hydrogen atoms! Somebody help!

[Anonymous No.3780719]

It's a video from years ago... It was one of the first visualizations of how nanotech might work.

I'll find the youtube link...

[Anonymous No.3780720]

what is that?

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780722]

>>3780717

What is that? A block of diamond? Help, I'm being taken to a C(111) surface!

[Anonymous No.3780725]

>>3780722

LOL at that cheap texture instead of actual 3d models

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780727]

>>3780722

W -- Why are all the atoms in the right place? Where is the random motion? The chaos? Why is this full of order?

I'm just a humble Acetylene, I have no place in covalent solids!

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780737]

>>3780727

Where are they taking me? Why is this whole place made of diamond? It's like I'm in a Neal Stephenson novel or something.

[Anonymous No.3780740]

>>3780719
Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEYN18d7gHg

Wow, that looks really dated now. We should coerce /3/ into doing a modern version of this.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780752]

>>3780737

I've reached the scale of microns where materials start being seen as continuous and where mechanical engineering rules completely... Robot arms and manipulators exist here and the conveyor is taking me to one. Will this ever end? How big is this place? I miss being an Acetylene molecule... I miss my water and impurity molecule friends...

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780757]

>>3780752

Just another cog in the machine, carried about by the careless motions of a diamondoid MEMS-scale manipulator driven by electriostatic motors as described in Nanosystems (1992).

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780764]

>>3780757

Another machine. Cold, hard, dry, UHV-based machines... Where is solution chemistry and the wet environment I'm used too? They told me solution chemistry was the only chemistry! How am I part of a diamondoid now?

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780766]

>>3780764

What are the robots doing? I can see atoms that were once Acetylenes like I was... But now they are 5 nm wide blocks of crystal... All being crushed into a layer by the mechanism of the extruder...

[Anonymous No.3780775]

The first major problem I see with this is "bootstrapping." In other words, there are a lot of machines in that video that would all need to be built using already-existing nanomachines. Chicken and egg.

[Anonymous No.3780777]

>>3780740
>100 Hour battery life
>One billion CPUs

oh god I lol'd

[Anonymous No.3780781]

>>3780740

Whoa.. mind blown.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780786]

>>3780766

At last I truly see... The fate of all molecules that were once chaotic and random... Coerced by the Machines into... Into...

\it{Order}

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780788]

>>3780786

C'est fini.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780790]

>>3780788

(With apologies to Richard Jones)

[Anonymous No.3780794]

>>3780777
Well, it's not that hard to believe if you're willing to accept everything else in the video as feasible.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780797]

>>3780766

At last I truly see... The fate of all molecules that were once chaotic and random... Coerced by the Machines into... Into...

<span class="math">\it{Order}[/spoiler]

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780802]

>>3780797

C'est fini.

With apologies to Richard Jones.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780804]

Now, for the evidence... This is going to take a while.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780806]

“Mechanical vertical manipulation of selected single atoms by soft nanoindentation using near contact atomic force microscopy” by Oyabu et al. for the first demonstration of bond forming/breaking on mechanical forces alone (Previous experiments required electric charges for the transfer of moieties).

This was thirteen years after Don Eigler's spelling of IBM on a (Conducting) Ni surface, which should tell you how slow progress is and that the reason wet nanotechnology is pursued over dry nanotechnology is because biology has worked out all the quirks.

But water solutions are not the only environment that exists, and believing biologyi s the only nanoscale chemistry is just constraining yourself from the myriad possibilities of chemistry. A technical bibliography of diamond mechanosynthesis is here:

http://www.molecularassembler.com/Nanofactory/AnnBibDMS.htm

[Anonymous No.3780812]

O NOES! GRAY GOO!!!!

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780814]

>>3780806

A good book on the subject is Nanosystems, by Eric Drexler. Please disregard Engines of Creation. It's a science fiction novel. Yes. We know. We don't need Universal Assemblers, though, just a machine that can squirt diamond and fullerenes. A patent for a mechanosynthethic tooltip and its method of manufacturing was awarded to Robert Freitas (You may know him as the guy who designed the self-replicating lunar factory) in 2008. It is available here:

http://www.molecularassembler.com/Papers/US7687146.pdf

In 2008, Freitas and Merkle (Inventors' National Hall of Fame, Internet pioneer, invented hash trees, published in various peer-reviewed journals) published “A Minimal Toolset for Positional Diamond Mechanosynthesis” which describes 100,000 CPU hours of comp-chemistry analysis of several tooltips which can, when moved by cantilevers or MEMS manipulators, build copies of each other and synthesize any unstrained diamond machine part:

http://www.MolecularAssembler.com/Papers/MinToolset.pdf

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780818]

A lot of people were hopeful about nanotechnology realizing before 2010, as Drexler and the Foresight institute lobbied and eventually created the National Nanotechnology Inititative, which later went in the direction of ordinary chemistry -- I mean, Nanotechnology. The NanoBusiness Alliance lobbied to have funding for molecular manufacturing removed:

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-nanotech-schism
http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/09/eric-drexler-ralph-merkle-or-robert.html

So, don't think I'm implying this will happen any time soon. I'm not a technological determinist, I don't think research into 'general nano' will give us molecular manufacturing. That goal will be achieved by researching, you know, actual mechanosynthesis/molecular manufacturing.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780839]

>>3780775

Precisely. The Minimal Toolset paper describes average chemical methods for the synthesis of the tooltips, and the reactions through which the tooltips can make the rest of the more complicated tooltips. After you have all the tooltips cantilevered and moving independently, you can start manufacturing basic parts: Say, 2 nm blocks of diamond. It takes some time to build another set of tooltips, but the real problem is building things large enough to act as gears and axles for a NEMS manipulator. However, if you already have a NEMS-scale manipulator that can move very fast and has 6 degrees of freedom, you have solved the problem of manipulation... But the problem of manufacturing a copy of the manipulator still stands. After you have the first copy, you have two, which make four, which make eight, until your manufacturing capacity can make multi-gram quantities.

[Anonymous No.3780860]

>>3780839
You know what I think would basically be the "breakthrough" that makes all this possible? Being able to see these things.

Sure, we can see them now, using SEM, but that is not practical. SEM are huge and you have to prepare the sample, shoot it with electrons, wait for the result, etc, etc...

If we just had some device that would let us look in on the nanoscale and poke around at atoms in (essentially) real time, all these other problems would become trivial.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780869]

>>3780860

Atomic Force Microscopes and Scanning Tunnelling Microscopes have been here since the eighties :)

[Anonymous No.3780872]

>>3780869
Sure, but those are even less "real-time" than SEM. Atomic force microscopes have to drag a spike (that thing in your image) across the surface one atom at a time. Not helpful.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780876]

>>3780872

Not to mention the time it takes to do anything, hell, even to update the image. And the fact that the tips last four hours -_-

[Anonymous No.3780882]

>>3780872
There's always neutron spallation, but that's... iffy for a few reasons.

[Anonymous No.3780883]

Don't you get it? Nanotech is science fiction. You're like a creationist or something, you just ignore any facts that contradict your views.

[Anonymous No.3780910]

>>3780883
it works as cells, why not as man-made machines?

[Anonymous No.3780943]

>>3780883
Typical conversationist who doesn't want his old tech to fade detected

[Anonymous No.3780947]

>>3780883
Well, there's also a lot of existing science-fact:
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=mems

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780954]

>>3780883

Please see:

>>3780806
>>3780814
>>3780818

But, of course, you're going to hold on to desperate appeals to moderation as the typical trendy 'skeptic' that you are.

The deck is stacked in my favor.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3780970]

>>3780954

Also, the infographics were OC. The first one has some stuff about how certain structures are hard to make.

This is not a cornucopia machine. I'm not saying it can make 'anything'. The machines I sustain are possible can synthesize <span class="math">\it{unstrained}[/spoiler] Hydrogen-terminated diamond, facilitating the creation of NEMS systems. That's really *all* there is to it.

[Anonymous No.3780989]

>>3780883

>Presents no evidence

You are everything that's wrong with /sci/.

[Anonymous No.3780993]

>>3780883
> 4chan user: Nanotech can't work.
> Mother Nature: Are you sure? [pic related]

[Anonymous No.3781006]

>>3780993
hahaha nature so funny. It does what we can't do billions of years ahead of time, now its using humans to do it again a different way.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3781033]

Another sorting pump from the first image.

[Anonymous No.3781042]

yes molecular biology is real.

the nanotech you lot are talking about is all completely naive, based on a failure to understand basic principles of molecular physics.

Go read more sci-fi, this isn't science.

[Anonymous No.3781049]

>>3780954
> "progress in nanotech"

lists all the pop sci and sci fi books on the topic

my face when scientific progress is made by publishing sci-fi books

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3781059]

>>3781042

Sigh.

The machines that were proposed deal with the stickiness and thermal noise. The error of the tooltips at 300 K is less than an Angstrom because of thermal noise. Yes, the machines are rigid, not floppy, boo hoo too bad.

This is in a UHV, not in a solution. The conditions are different, so the machines are different. Why do people think molecular biology is the only nanotechnology, when molecular biology evolved under specific conditions of temperature and water solutions?

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3781061]

>>3781049

There are only mentions of The Diamond Age and Engines of Creation, and let's be honest, Engines sparked a lot of interest in this.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3781075]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EInzUb_PBdo

Have a quantum chemistry simulation.

[Anonymous No.3781080]

>>3781042
More realistically, you are being naive in drawing a hard line between the two. Atoms are atoms.

[Anonymous No.3781116]

>>3780883
>>3781042
> Trololo, only biology is real, nature would never create little machines with little robot arms moving stuff around, that's sci-fi, you guys are all stuped

Really?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6FitehwJg4&NR=1

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3781219]

>>3781116

It's still important to recognize that solution-based proteins are different from the diamond-based machine parts presented here.

[Anonymous No.3781254]

>>3781219
I'd say the only real difference between the two is optimization.

[Anonymous No.3782334]

it's funny because the video makes the whole process seem more complex than it needs to be

just make a few m13 virus strains that are coded to deal with specific groups of elements and lay in specific patterns to make things, a machine just sets the boundaries.

one strain prints to a silicon wafer, another strain grows the transistors, another grows the connections, ect.
ezmodo

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3784154]

>>3782334

Yes, we'll just 'program' a virus to mechanically synthesize graphene or nanotubes or diamondoids. Biology may be optimized to work at one kind of nanoscale environment, but it has different interests than we do. Enzymes may work pretty well but they can't synthesize arbitrarily long nanotubes, things the industry wants.

[Anonymous No.3784496]

ITT: People pretending water solutions are the only environment where chemistry happens.

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3784891]

Bumping with STM images.