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/sci/ - Science & Math

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[ERROR] No.3693122 [Reply] [Original]

Psychiatry is bullshit and not science. Discuss.

>> No.3693135

ADHD is one disorder describing two completely different sub disorders.

>> No.3693147

They've invented a new one:

Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)

Obey.

>> No.3693153

I got one.

WD

Wrong Disorder.

You are wrong.

>> No.3693162

>>3693122
Meh, if you are talking about mental health diagnosis like depression and anxiety and schitzophrenia--well, it's a brain issue so I would argue to say that it is science. Just as much as diagnosing someone with cancer is.

To further explain--Let's say you have audio or visual hallucinations--There is obviously something wrong there, wouldn't you agree? Barring any other physical ailment (ie sometimes tumors cause those symptoms for example) this problem is a mental health issue therefore a psychiatric one.

You are getting stuck to much on terms. There are 'specialties' with many 'medical' human issues. I don't see mental illness as an exception.

Now, if you want to say that therapy is non-science--well, that I might agree with you but it doesn't mean that people can't get helped by a therapist.

>> No.3693163

>>3693147
That isn't a new one. Also the name is a euphemism for "childhood psychopathy". The entire reason the diagnosis exists is because it was thought that labeling kids as psychopaths wasn't a great thing to do considering some of them do snap out of it before adulthood (that and people are pussies when it comes to kids) so instead of hitting kids with a diagnosis of "antisocial personality disorder" they get a diagnosis of "oppositional defiant disorder" or "conduct disorder".

>> No.3693178

>>3693162
You're doing a lot of explaining for something that is trivial to demonstrate. Science is rigorous. Which means we don't need to rely on vague philosophical arguments.

Does the field of psychiatry validate it's hypotheses with objective tests yes or no? If not, it's not science. Simple as that. Where are you getting all these vague arguments? But we all know where you get them from. Because we all know the answer to my question is no. So you have to look for some other way to try to justify psychiatry as science.

>> No.3693216

Thats because half the time it isn't a psychologist: it's some guy plugging in answers to a computer, or a MD prescribing you pills based on what they think is wrong.

And parents these days are probably the worst thing ever. My kid can't focus, so I'll get him pumped full of pills instead of actually bothering to find out why he can't focus. No he/she isn't bored, that's bullshit, they evidently have ADD/ADHD/Something.

It simply isn't suited to our fast paced "Plug and chug" society. Very rarely do you actually see someone take the time and effort to find what's really going on.

>> No.3693220

>>3693147
>They've invented a new one

Within the span of 7 years (DSM III to DSM IV) they invented 100 new ones.

Although I think this is the point where they discarded at least one (homosexuality). Note that it wasn't because homosexuality as an illness was falsified as in real science (it was never established by evidence in the first place). Rather it was because of political pressures. Increased tolerance of gays meant that if psychiatry was to survive its reputation in the public's mind, homosexuality had to be removed.

Could you imagine physics removing gravitational theory based on its reputation among the public?

>> No.3693278

>>3693178

I would say that psychiatry does "validate it's hypotheses with objective tests." I think you need to discern from Psychiatry and Psychology.

You do realize Psychiatrists are doctors who can prescribe medications and make diagnosis, right?

Anyway, I think since most human beings are just a walking sack of chemicals, it's not unusual for us to have 'defects'. I think many of us suffer with mental health related issues from time to time. Although I strongly believe that those 'issues' are not constant with all of us and symptoms associated with those issues change.

For example, most of us have experienced loss of some kind--whether it be a death, or even the end of a relationship. It is not uncommon for humans to feel depressed after those events. That's normal. What 'psychiatry' deals with is the 'abnormal' symptoms of those human events. And by abnormal I mean not typical (in symptom or in length of time).

For example, staying in bed for months after a pet dies is something that falls into the abnormal category and I would think it would be obvious that this person needs help otherwise this 'new routine' could quite adversely affect their life.

>> No.3693292

Well no, it's a medical field, but yeah it's a shitty one.

>> No.3693347

>do stupid ass tests online or cant afford to go to real psychiatrist
>Cry about psychiatry is not being science

herp derp guys i cant build a large hadron collider in my house physics is not a science

>> No.3693368

>>3693162 Just as much as diagnosing someone with cancer is.

Last time I checked doctors don't argue about what cancer is and who has it/doesn't have it

>> No.3693378

>>3693347
wut

>> No.3693382

>>3693368
>implying psychiatrists argue about them
no they dont. stupid uneducated people do. they go to a shitty doctor(not even a psychiatrist), tell their son doesnt study and always being naughty. they get stimulants. then they proceed and say herp derp adhd is not real herp derp.
No , you shouldnt get stims,ssris,benzos from a non-psychiatrist.
No,you cant diagnose yourself with some stupid online test that nobody gives a fuck about.
No,nobody argues about what a mental ilness is,they research causes of it,and new treatment methods. Like cancer.
Just because that you are so stupid that you cant understand it doesnt mean its not a science.
No psychiatrist directly diagnoses from test / wisc-IV

>> No.3693392

>>3693382
>>3693278
>>3693278
>>3693382

please point me to the psych textbook/paper/anything that contains the accepted definitions of Schizophrenia, ADHD, Bi-polar disorder, clinical depression, etc. and the agreed upon methods of treatment

serious

>> No.3693400

>>3693392
>>3693392

I forgot diagnosis too

oh wells

>> No.3693401

>>3693392
go get it yourself. wikipedia is free son.

>> No.3693404

>>3693392
i am pretty sure you can find them. google definition + disorder. dont go to shitty websites for people,look for medical sites
lurk moar

>> No.3693416

>>3693401
>>3693404

so I've got a wikipedia and a google for the accepted definitions, diagnosis, and treatment of mental illnesses

I rest my case.

>> No.3693426

Not a science is correct.
But bullshit it is not.
There are many studies that have findings which explain human behavior very correctly.
Psychology while having no scientific value is still a significant and important field.

>> No.3693428

>>3693392
DSM-IV

>> No.3693431

They do have a book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders

If you actually read it, you'ld like the part about their procedures, where they reference the difficulty of diagnosing disorders, so they rely on the psychiatrist's expertise, but indicate that, due to variance in how different patients display symptoms, this is to be a best fit guidebook.

Unfortunately, you can't diagnose a human being under ideal lab conditions, so I'm sorry if psychiatry doesn't resemble physics in the certainty of it's science. However, I think you're falling into the trap of having already decided it wasn't a science and ignoring contradicting evidence. Don't worry, Aristotle did it too.

>> No.3693476

>>3693431 I'm sorry if psychiatry doesn't resemble physics in the certainty of it's science

it doesn't even have to resemble physics (aka science) in this discussion, just the definition, diagnosis, and treatment of cancer

which (as I believe you've correctly admitted) it doesn't

>this is to be a best fit guidebook.

>> No.3693482

>>3693431 you can't diagnose a human being under ideal lab conditions

forgot that part too

>> No.3693500

>>3693416

Look up some scholarly articles dumb fuck.

>> No.3693516

>>3693500

the best source proposed so far, DSM-IV defines Schizophrenia as

>Schizophrenia is a chronic, more or less debilitating illness characterized by perturbations in cognition, affect and behavior, all of which have a bizarre aspect.

that's really well defined and not vague

at all

...

very scientific

~

>> No.3693632

>>3693516

You can't really categorize schizophrenia into one definition. It's a complex disease and it have a shitload of different effects on different people, whether it's delusional paranoid, hallucinogenic schizophrenia, or any other.

>> No.3693655

>>3693516

>Exspects 100% accurate diagnosis and classification of deviations of humans despite that each and every human is genetically and socially different

Confirmed for Autistic.

>> No.3693657

>>3693122

agreed. If it really was medicine that heals people the health insurance would pay for it

>> No.3693901

Psychiatry is just psychology plus a license to fuck with people's brain chemistry. Psychology is a joke though. It's the modern religion.

>> No.3693933

So are we all agreed that Scientology and Psychiatry need to destroy each other somehow?

>> No.3693934

>>3693901
There are genuine things that cognitive science and neurology have shown, but psychology at the moment is pretty bullshit, yes.