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/sci/ - Science & Math

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[ERROR] No.3658741 [Reply] [Original]

>people that think a bachelors degree is enough qualify you as a scientist
>people that think a bachelors degree in anything is enough to qualify for a job or even a life in general

Retards will just stay retarded, I guess.

>> No.3658759

>people thinking any degree is enough to qualify you for anything other than being a sucker for buying into the money printing scam of academia

>> No.3658757

>>3658741
Op can't into engineering.

>> No.3658761

I got an associates degree and am making 70k. Sure, its not 200k, but plenty enough for me.

>> No.3658762
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>>3658759
>2011
>being a bitter dropout / poorfag

>> No.3658769

>2011
>not doing an engineering degree before going into pure sciences to assure yourself big $$$

>> No.3658782

>>3658762
enjoy your loans that even bankruptcy doesn't remove and your political position within the structure of perpetuating the whoring of human knowledge which you blindly advocate to justify your indentured servitude.

>> No.3658792

Bachelors degree at target school -> graduate scheme in insurance, accounting, actuarial training, banking, trading.

Boom, you're going to make more money than 99% scientists ever will.

>> No.3658803
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>>3658741

>> No.3658829

>>3658741
maybe for something with widespread grunt-work like computer sciences, but I agree, there is no reason to stop at a bachelors, if you need to get a little work for experience/cash thats fine, but you should (or at least I am) plan on going back within a year or 2 to get your masters ect.

>> No.3658841

>>3658782

i just graduated with EE degree, making $3000/mo, school loan payments are a joke.

>> No.3658851

fyi, most of the jobs in the world doesn't take a ph.d nor even a mensa IQ

>> No.3658860

ITT: Pissing all over other people because of insecurities in yourself.

>> No.3658870

>>3658841
Its more to point out how its a scam and evil than to say the loans themselves are a problem.

They are the only kind of loans that do not go away with bankruptcy.
It costs three times as much adjusted for inflation for an education today than it did in the 50s, yet people make half of what they did, adjusted for inflation, in the 50s. So it costs 6 times more

Even from grade school kids are taught that you must do this, you have to go to college. Children are brainwashed into participating.

Its obviously corrupt, and by participating in it you are lending it validity

>> No.3658872

>>3658841
Not that dude, but please tell me you're entry level or not working 40 hours a week. My friend makes nearly two times that and hes only been working for a year with a CSE degree.

>> No.3658876

>>3658870
Interest rate on student loans is shit. I graduated with ZERO student loans. People in Private-FOR PROFIT colleges need to worry about student loans. Those are scams, not public universities or private non profit universities.

>> No.3658881

I don't get why people think getting a college degree is buying into a scam of academia. I can understand 30-40 years ago when the computer could be invented by college dropouts in a california garage. But now technology and science have come so far that you can't just figure out lithography, chemical vapor deposition, or other now basic circuit fabrication processes on your own. And if you really want to help advance the field you'll need a lot more knowledge than just a bachelors or masters degree can provide.
Even the lowest level ensigns on star trek have to go to the academy, where they have to learn about tacheon pulses and warp core technology. It's not only because they need it to get a job, it's because every generation the amount of human knowledge increases exponentially, and those who want to further push that level of knowledge for the whole human race have to play a little catch up of whats already been discovered.
Now if you're trying to get a college degree in art history or english, than that's just fucking dumb.

>> No.3658891

>>3658872
I make closer to $4600/mo. pre-tax. I gave post tax cuz thats the only figure that matters to me. but yes it is entry level.

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>>3658782
>mfw when I come from an intelligent, rich, and caring family that have been contributing towards a tertiary fund for me since my conception.

umad faggot?

>> No.3658906
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>>3658881
>Now if you're trying to get a college degree in art history or english, than that's just fucking dumb.
>than that's just fucking dumb.
>than

Oh lordy.

>> No.3658916

>>3658900
>>3658876
Neither of these have anything to do with the point.

Im showing how the political power of academia has somehow managed to make it so that there is nothing anyone can do to escape those loans. You can get any other kind of loan and theres a way out, but these can follow you forever.

Tell me the whole system is not just a scheme to extract money from the populace. Even banks have to stop coming after you at a point.

>> No.3658925

>not understanding simple economics
The price of education is rising faster than the rate of inflation because of the availability of college loans, which makes the demand for college higher than it used to be.

>> No.3658928

>>3658916
>i'm not technically or academically qualified in any way, and i plan on living my life as a deadbeat, yet i think my advice is valuable to the people on /sci/ for some reason

stop posting here please

>> No.3658931

>>3658881
Knowledge is good, the thing is its all the egg shapers guild. A degree doesn't mean you have knowledge, it means you are in a political system. /sci/ knows this, you go to school to prove what you already know, not to learn things.

Then there are standards which require people to be holding a certain position within the system, set by people also holding a position within the system, to ensure that the importance and prestige of their own position is maintained.

They then further try to solidify their status by pushing the importance of the system onto new generations.

The entire point is to maintain status quo.

And since they have tied their importance to what they 'know', it even brings political pressure against new ideas because it would make what they 'know' wrong and therefore should lower their importance.

Academia today is basically the catholic church.

Thats to be expected, any organization will eventually become like that if left alone long enough. Every system eventually evolves into something that only serves to perpetuate itself.

>> No.3658938

>>3658928
Its not /sci/ - universities and degrees

>> No.3658939

>>3658938
You should've been here when /sci/ was first implemented, that's generally what it was. Along with "correlation != causation."

>> No.3658940

>>3658931
I think it would be infinitely better if nobody needed degrees, and everyone could become, say, a doctor without some independent verification the he does possess the qualifications not to mistreat and kill me.

Seriously, if you possess your degree, it is at least _some_ indication that you really know your stuff. What do you expect, that employers make a broad test everyone who applies to see if they actually know anything?

>> No.3658943

Well, I'm pretty sure we have guaranteed internships when we finish our MBBS here in Australia. Yeah, I'll be doing a specialisation after that, but that's not technically a degree.

>> No.3658945
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>>3658931
>every sentence is a paragraph

>> No.3658952

>live with parents throughout degree.
>work part-time while studying.
>live with parents for first 2 years of degree related full-time employment.

unless you are a consumer whore that blows money on useless junk,
following this plan should leave with a fully paid-off degree plus some savings money.

>> No.3658954

>>3658931
>>3658938

please describe your personal experience in academia/the job market.
i ask, because i think if you're not successful in either, your opinions on this subject are probably not worth the effort taken to type them out.

>> No.3658962

>>3658741

>people studying on a bachelor/masters inferior bologna program

Are you even trying bologna fags?
How can you even claim to know shit when you never had to learn a 400 page book and have to answer questions about it infront of a full theater.

>> No.3658965

>implying the time-management skills your learn at college aren't priceless.

>> No.3658968

>>3658965
>implying you can only learn time-management skills at college.
Your argument is flawed.

>> No.3658972
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This thread just makes me sad about how I'll never have a job no matter what I do.

>> No.3658979

>>3658954
If i were deep into academia i wouldn't be speaking against it else i would have wasted years of my life, i would be trying to promote it further to further solidify my own importance.

All you have to do is look at the media and advertising and social memes surrounding academia to realize what it is.

Your question basically guarantees nobody will ever convince you otherwise because the only people who you will believe are the ones who would never say it.

Only two kinds of people are going to have a clear picture of this. Ones in the middle who are dependent on it and thus will never act against it, and ones so far away they can see the whole of it clearly.

>> No.3658986

>>3658968
>implying I implied that
>implying college isn't the most logical place to learn time-management/self-discipline, as at the same time you are learning valuable skills and knowledge.

>> No.3658997

>>3658979

Even if what you are saying is true, I would still rather give my money to academia than to the catholic church.

In addition, degrees are only expensive in America because everything is privatized. Guess who has the best universities overall?

Inb4 this turns into a shitting contest between countries.

>> No.3658996

>dont go to college
>stuck with a $25000 annual income with no opportunities of improvement

>> No.3658999

wtf is this student loan bullshit

>> No.3659002

>>3658979
what do you do to earn money though? pump gas? wait tables? leech off parents/government?

I think you have seen Good Will Hunting far too many times champ.

>> No.3659006

>>3658979
in the 20 minutes i've spent replying to you tonight i would have made 25 dollars at work. i have a degree and a lucrative, stable and secure job. you have, as far as i can tell, no qualification and no job. if you are encouraging people to be like you then i think you're doing them a disservice. if you disagree feel free to say why.

>> No.3659012

>>3659002
I spend my time on internet message boards trying to change peoples minds about things.

Anything really. If i see something ill argue against it (even if i agree)
Its my nature.

Like all dedicated ascetics the universe just kind of works out for me, every time a problem seems to be arising, something happens that inexplicably fixes it, because i desire nothing.

>> No.3659025

>>3658943

>Satvik?

>> No.3659027

>>3659006
By the way encouraging people away from academia is not encouraging them to 'be like me'. There are a lot of things that you can do with no degrees at all, like start a business. If /sci/ is half as smart as it claims to be making a successful business should be no problem.

The thing is people who hold degrees are the new assembly line workers. Instead of moving physical things they move information. In the end it still only qualifies you to be part of a machine, not to be your own machine.

Ultimately prestige comes from scarcity. The more of you there are, the less important. In a world where everyone is walking around with a degree in something what exactly does that make you?

>> No.3659031
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>>3659012
>I spend my time on internet message boards trying to change peoples minds about things.

>> No.3659036

>>3658979
tinycat, i've read some of your other posts on this board tonight and really think you have no business posting on /sci/ at all. the majority of your posts strike me as blatantly ignorant. what about this board appeals to you?

>> No.3659043

>going into undergrad chemical engineering
>stop at bachelor?
>or go on to masters?
>or even PhD?

don't really know what I should

>> No.3659050

>In the end it still only qualifies you to be part of a machine, not to be your own machine.

We are all part of the machine, the people who work hard, the people who leech off. It's just that some are more dignified than others. Since the only measurement is how useful you are to the system, anyone who contributes actively for and from it is superior.

>> No.3659054

>>3659027
>Ultimately prestige comes from scarcity. The more of you there are, the less important. In a world where everyone is walking around with a degree in something what exactly does that make you?

Because going to university isn't about getting a piece of paper, it's about gaining knowledge, you thundering twat.

How would you feel if say, you found out the surgeon operating on you wasn't university qualified, but has learned everything himself. I guarantee you, you would now want him holding a blade anywhere near you.

All of your arguments completely miss the point that university provides a platform for you to gain the knowledge, skills and experience in the field you want to work in. You can't learn that sort of shit from just a book. Sure a lot of degrees are essentially useless (i.e. Arts), but even they provide some sort of skill and foundation for your future career. People don't go to university for the sake of being able to say "I have a degree".

>> No.3659056

>>3659027
>hurr durr, start a business instead of college, college has too much loans
>implying starting a sucessful business doesn't require FAR more loaned money than a college degree 95% of the time

confirmed for troll/ignorant fucktard.

>> No.3659062

>>3659043

anybody?

>> No.3659068

>>3659062

Finish it and then decide.

>> No.3659074

>>3659062
What you need to do is investigate job prospects all throughout your bachelors. Start applying for positions in your final year. If you manage to land a position you are happy with and want/need the money, go for it.

>> No.3659073

>>3659054
lol no.

In the old days sure. But ive seen even /sci/ agree in the past that you go to prove what you know, not to learn things, and that if you dont already know the stuff then you probably have no business being in the top tier prestigious institution /sci/ wets themselves over.

>>3659050
You need to understand that there is a line that separates helping society and helping other people.

I like to think that im helping society more right now, even if its only getting people to realize how and why they disagree with me, than someone who buys a new car for themselves.

>>3659036
This board has the most potential. There are a few smart people here, and some people who may be converted into smart people.

It also interests me to see the empiricists take on certain subjects, and amuses me to no end of how sure everyone seems to be of the absolute certainty of the systems they employ.

Of all the boards on 4chan this is the one that is most likely to turn a quick browse into a day long activity.

>> No.3659081

>>3659027
>derp people without a degree are better than people with a degree because if everyone has a degree the people without them are unique snowflakes!

>> No.3659082

>>3659056
You aren't this stupid, right? You do grasp the entire point of me bringing up student loans, and showing the distinction between a student loan and every single other kind of loan in existence?

It has nothing to do with your end, stop thinking about yourself. It has nothing to do with the money you borrow, it has everything to do with the mechanisms in place that distinguish the two loan types, mechanisms which prove how greedy the system is.

>> No.3659086

>>3659043
it's your decision to make, but if you're unsure, just do the standard path:
finish your bachelor's. look for work. if you get offered a job (likely), take it.
if you can't get work, start your masters' and put it on your resume while you look for jobs. (this is as far as you should have to go in 90% of cases if your degree was well chosen)
finish your masters' and apply for work, you should get a job easily.
if you find you're completely ineffective in the workforce/job market even with a masters', try for a phd (not recommended unless you love study and hate employment).

>> No.3659090

>>3659054
Also, would you not want the best surgeon in the world to operate on you, but instead some other guy, because the best doesn't currently have a medical license?

>> No.3659095

>helping society and helping other people

It's the same thing. Civilization 101. Knowledge is gathered by masses and shared to masses. The system is greedy because each human being is greedy. You seem to be deluded by some sort of utopia

>> No.3659112

>>3659082
tinycat you have me confused there.

>> No.3659124

>implying I need any degree at all to be a scientist

Self study, all day erry day. U mad?

>> No.3659133

>>3659090
you now realise your arguments are now based entirely in fantasy. you are not helping anyone, least of all yourself.

>> No.3659131

>>3659124

>Go to important corporation for worthwhile research
>Your diploma please
>........
>Youre shown the door

>> No.3659134

>>3659112
that's because he is spurting drivel. not even going to warrant him with a direct reply. i think what he was trying/struggling to get across is the differing t&c's between student loans and other types of loans. however, I dare you to find a developed nation where student loans hold harsher conditions than business/property loans.

>> No.3659137

>>3659112
Plainly then

Take out a loan, for any amount. Go do whatever you were going to do with the money.

Now declare bankruptcy.

You go through the process, and now you don't owe anyone anything. You start over. We will assume for the time being that you did not do the whole thing to just scam the system on purpose, and actually deserve a new start.

Well, you would be fine, unless that loan you took out was a student loan.

Really the only way you can get out of a student loan is suicide.

Why? Doesn't it seem a little odd that its a fairly uniform standard for everything, but somehow student loans are special in this regard?

That combined with the aforementioned 6 times more expensive education than 50 years ago taking average incomes and costs adjusted for inflation into account, sure starts to look kind of suspicious, doesn't it? Looks like a huge vacuum designed to suck up the wealth of the people and put it into the pockets of few.

And i guess im some kind of socialist because that just doesn't sit right with me, particularly when i see little children, 3rd graders being indoctrinated that with out a degree they are nothing.

>> No.3659139

>>3659131
enjoy having all your discoveries patented and sat on never to benefit humanity

>> No.3659148

>>3659137
*citation required*

>> No.3659154

>>3659139

Once you're in the system you can try your best to modify it. Whereas someone choosing to stay outside (you) cant have access to it, and therefore is not able to change a social paradigm

>> No.3659155

>>3659137
>>3659134
no, i mean he has me confused with someone who gives a shit.

ICE BURN
gtfo tinycat, you're a joke.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

>> No.3659178

>>3659137
>implying most bankruptcy cases aren't declined
>implying having a bankruptcy case in your history doesn't completely fuck the rest of your life up if it was bad enough

>> No.3659217
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>>3659154
>change
what is this? There is no change, all systems get progressively worse in this direction as they go on until they are _destroyed_.

Ill tell you what will happen.
One day it will fall apart and be over. Something will move into its place, and it will kind of work but be horrible and it will quickly fail. There will be lots of suffering. Finally the real replacement will come along and start out great, until it becomes corrupt and must be destroyed.

The universe works in cycles.

>>3659148
Picture related, and as far as the indoctrination and brainwashing of children go...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8w6MEWHjjU