Simulated Mars colonization in the deep ocean

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3656264]

Most conceptions of an effort to colonize mars require modular habitats to be constructed on the planet's surface. Each module must be delivered by a lander, then moved off of it by robot and attached to the rest of the habitat.

We've never done this. It's how we constructed the ISS, but that was in zero G. delivering modules into a gravity well and then needing powered equipment to lift and move them around, eventually mating them to each other is something we've simply never tried to do.

What I propose is that we simulate this mission in the ocean. Modules will be delivered via slow descend aboard replica landers, using ducted prop thrusters instead of retro rockets, but using the same software and principles involved in landing habitat modules on the surface of Mars.

The landers and modules will be ballasted such that they weigh exactly what they would on Mars, adjusting for the strength of the thrusters of course, and they will be assembled by robots nearly identical to the ones we plan to use on Mars (but designed for subsea use.)

Once the habitat is constructed, a crew of aquanauts will live in it for one year, performing EVAs, gathering samples and so on, with power provided by a nuclear reactor aboard one of the landers (as per Mars semi direct) which will also provide oxygen, hydrogen and desalinated water from nuclear powered hydrolysis the same way modern submarines do. The crew will be cut off from the surface and without any kind of support for the duration of the mission, reliant on dehydrated food stores and whatever they can grow in the hydroponics module.

Would /sci/ support this?

[Anonymous No.3656271]

why dont we colonize yo mamas ass?

seriously, you already have 1 thread about this. post it there.

[cy No.3656275]

I guess if we can get a prototype station running down there and people are comfortable hell yeah I'd support it.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3656277]

>>3656271

It's not the same subject. And you don't dictate where I post something. Now I have to remake this thread again. :-\

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3656279]

Why don't we colonize Earth's core?

I kid, I kid

I seriously think you should propose this to Zubrin. Fire him an email. I think he'd be quite interested.

[Anonymous No.3656280]

holy shit an underwater colonization thread by mad scientist how new and exciting

[Anonymous No.3656285]

>>3656277
fair enough.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3656286]

>>3656279

Zubrin is a difficult man to contact. And the Mars Society struggles to fund their simulated Mars habitats on land, they don't have the money for a deep sea habitat. 1atm habitats are vastly more expensive than ambient pressure ones.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3656295]

>>3656286

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3656301]

>>3656295

That's not to say this couldn't be done with ambient pressure habs, but there would be little point since you wouldn't be descending more than a few hundred feet maximum.

[JagiSympathizer No.3656340]

>>3656264
who wouldn't support it the thing is, I dunno if you could recreate this by using the ocean. On mars you have many factors to worry about such as storms and also places where such devices could get stuck. In the ocean you don't have to worry about that so you don't have to design the equipment around being dust storm proof in a sense.

the ocean is good for testing out habitats that need to maintain an equilibrium of pressure and have adequate safety systems, but as for movement related devices like rovers and other such things. the ocean wouldn't be the most ideal testing point.

unless you're just talking about habitats, in which case I'm an idiot and you should disregard this post.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3656409]

>>3656340

You're right, but there's also the fact that you could simulate the difficulties of delivering the modules via lander and needing to move them off of the lander with robots. They would be weighted such that, underwater, they would be exactly as heavy as they would on Mars. The ocean is the only large natural environment on Earth where we can precisely control what things weigh in this manner. It's why Astronauts train aboard the Aquarius undersea lab.

Also, if you did this in shallow water, you'd definitely get an accurate simulation of storm stresses. But it would probably be powerful enough to wreck the habitat unless depth were carefully calculated so that a storm on the surface would match the average force exerted by storm winds on Mars...

[Anonymous No.3656438]

>>3656409

Seems like you could just simulate this on land by making the modules out of lightweight materials so they would weigh the same as on Mars. But the prospect of picking a depth where influence from surface storms would be the same as on Mars is intriguing. I gather that's the point of doing this kind of crap in the ocean, you can pick specific depths and balance weights with buoyancy to match the conditions anywhere in the solar system.

[JagiSympathizer No.3656448]

>>3656409
>but there's also the fact that you could simulate the difficulties of delivering the modules via lander and needing to move them off of the lander with robots. They would be weighted such that, underwater, they would be exactly as heavy as they would on Mars.
can I get some pictures and such of these landers and robots, to visualize what you're saying better. I'm a bit retarded, bear with me though.

>if you did this in shallow water, you'd definitely get an accurate simulation of storm stresses
what? how? why?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3656485]

>>3656448

>can I get some pictures and such of these landers and robots, to visualize what you're saying better. I'm a bit retarded, bear with me though.

Pic related, the Athlete robot dismounting a simulated Mars lander. The habitat modules are too heavy for humans, so a robot is required to offload them from the lander and position them for docking with the other modules.

>what? how? why?

Storms move the water. Water moves like very thick air. Think of the ocean as a thick, inner atmosphere.

[JagiSympathizer No.3656523]

>>3656485
>>3656485
>Storms move the water. Water moves like very thick air. Think of the ocean as a thick, inner atmosphere.
OF COURSE goddamn you've got some good ideas man, and thanks for the pic that helps alot.

Why isn't this getting funded?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3656574]

>>3656523

>Why isn't this getting funded?

Mostly due to the exponential price increase when you go from ambient to 1atm.

Ambient pressure habitats need only withstand buoyancy stresses. There's no pressure differential so they can use thin, flimsy hulls, even made mostly of plastic. Ordinary people can afford to build their own ambient pressure habitats and a few have. However, these can only be used down to a depth of a few hundred feet because of the limits of what the human body can endure in terms of air pressure. Below 115 feet, you must also switch to a helium oxygen breathing gas, as normal gas is toxic to us at that pressure.

1atm habitats need thick steel hulls to withstand a large pressure differential. They also need docking rings, like on the ISS, since you cannot use a moon pool. At the depths we're discussing, using a surface buoy to pump down air isn't feasible, you would need to extract oxygen from sea water.

In a sense, that's easily within our grasp. Every military submarine is basically a huge 1atm habitat with a nuclear reactor that pulls oxygen out of sea water. But the military has the funding for that sort of shit. Science doesn't.

[>:3 !9jB9Q4Z8pc No.3656597]

>>3656264
dude, its bob from reboot

[Anonymous No.3656613]

>>3656597

Also, is that fucking Captain Kirk in the weed growing module?

[Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q No.3656628]

>>3656597
>>3656613

That's... True.

[JagiSympathizer No.3656645]

>>3656574
>1atm habitats need thick steel hulls to withstand a large pressure differential. They also need docking rings, like on the ISS, since you cannot use a moon pool. At the depths we're discussing, using a surface buoy to pump down air isn't feasible, you would need to extract oxygen from sea water.
that makes alot of sense, I've seen pictures of deep sea animals that were brought to the surface and turned into a gelatinous mess because of the pressure difference. I didn't know that oxygen was hazardous at that level though.

Also bereaucracy is something that can't be beat, the best bet for this to get funding is to show a corporation how this could be profitable and to be honest, I don't know how it could which sucks because then the cycle continues. this isn't profitable so it doesn't get funding which means technologies in that area don't advance which means nobody wants to take the risk and invest in it. its fucked.

I'd honestly say you are our best bet at having an undersea base. keep working on your hampture and expanding upon it and such and someone WILL take notice I guarantee it.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3656672]

>>3656645

>I'd honestly say you are our best bet at having an undersea base. keep working on your hampture and expanding upon it and such and someone WILL take notice I guarantee it.

Haha! Aw. :3

That sort of already happened months ago. But it was my work with algae based life support. I've been recruited as part of the crew of the Atlantica Expeditions, a nonprofit organization founded by a NASA bioengineer which intends to establish the first permanent undersea colony. Pic related.

We were struggling for funding until recently. I can't discuss the details yet but sufficed to say money is no longer a concern. The dry run has been pushed back to 2013, but my stay aboard the Leviathan has also been expanded to 48 hours due to the volunteer work I've performed for the organization.

[JagiSympathizer No.3656693]

>>3656672
I want to say i told you so but since it already happened I'll just give you the congratulations you're due. Believe me, if I had the money to help fund your or your employers endeavors I would. I'm glad you guys aren't struggling for funding anymore though, and I hope you guys do good things for the progression of mankind.

[Anonymous No.3656704]

Is Mars an ocean planet?

[Anonymous No.3656716]

DO MORE COMICS

Also like i believe the pressure of deep water is similar enough to space to provide an equivelent situation.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3656766]

>>3656693

Thanks, but don't say I deserve it, I really don't. I feel horribly underqualified. Then again I always feel that way. (._. )

He says my designs are the most innovative he's seen in 30 years of designing bioregenerative life support systems. But I'm still an amateur with no patents to my name. I hope to change that, but the application process is so expensive.

>>3656716

>DO MORE COMICS

I WILL, GOSH.

>Also like i believe the pressure of deep water is similar enough to space to provide an equivelent situation.

Inversely, yes. It's actually a greater engineering challenge since a habitat in space needs only withstand a 1atm difference from within, not a 10x+ difference from without. A space habitat also uses a fairly simple rebreather system, fed from pure oxygen tanks. The same system submarines have used for decades. A deep ocean habitat needs a comparatively state of the art sea water->oxygen separator. Subsea tech is actually more sophisticated and costly than space tech, it's just cheaper because you don't need to launch it into orbit via rockets.

[JagiSympathizer No.3656893]

>>3656766
>Thanks, but don't say I deserve it, I really don't. I feel horribly underqualified. Then again I always feel that way. (._. )
stop that shit, goddamn man believe me when I tell you that nothing good will come out of feeling that way. Look at where you are and what you have done, do you HONESTLY believe that anyone else could be where you are? fuck no, you worked your ass off to be where you are and you deserve so don't fucking beat yourself up over succeeding.

and don't even give me that bullshit that someone else would be better suited for your position because if they were then they would be there not you, you are there because you worked harder than them. They didn't want it as bad as you so they didn't get it.

Being humble, great. but DON'T think for one second that everything you've accomplished hasn't been done by your own hands.

[Anonymous No.3656900]

What kind of degrees have you done op? I ask because I want to work on bioregenerative life support systems for space/mars habitats

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3656915]

>>3656900

3DCG for films and games. Completely unrelated to subsea tech. Weird, I know, but I only got into this stuff afterward. Pic related, some minor graphics work I did for the organization. Their original logo is on top, my updated version for animations is on the bottom.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3656967]

Another example. Top is the original graphic from 1996. Bottom is my reworking of it, trying to maintain the same aesthetic but with a cleaner looking render.

[Anonymous No.3657028]

>>3656915
Thanks. Although I am certain the various courses in plant biology and biogeography are the right courses for what kind of research I want to do I cannot shake the paranoia that the major I am in will lead me nowhere.

Also that work you did on their logo looks pretty good

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3657055]

>>3657028

Something that specialized will put you in demand, even if the number of positions is fairly limited. And thanks, I felt constrained by the 1990s art direction though. I wanted to reboot the aesthetics completely but Dennis is really attached to his own designs, and he's the one who calls the shots.