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/sci/ - Science & Math

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[ERROR] No.3622130 [Reply] [Original]

why won't this work?

not trolling

>> No.3622139

holy shit you've invented infinite electricity

>> No.3622150

To enter the tank of water at the bottom the ball must push some water in the tank up to make room for itself. This takes exactly as much energy as is produced when the ball rises, minus friction of course.

>> No.3622157

the amount of energy created by a rising ball* is less than the amount of potential energy created by raising it to the height you mention.

*don't forget, drag in the water, the friction of water molecules against the ball, will steal energy.

>> No.3622167

>>3622130
are you a fucking moron? have you ever been to school?

this is basic economics. like, the shit you learn in the first day. never heard of SUPPLY and DEMAND? who is demanding infinite electricity?

>> No.3622170

Because oil companies don't want that to work. So don't try to build it, or you will have an accident with lethal consequences.

>> No.3622196

>>3622167
well i'm a communist and i think people should have free electricity.

why do you love greed?

>> No.3622209

it will take a bunch of energy to get that big chain of anal beads through the hole at the bottom of the tank

>> No.3622217

>>3622139
/thread

>> No.3622220

>the balls of air are liter
>liter
>liter
>liter
>liter
>liter
>liter

>> No.3622232
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[ERROR]

>>3622139
And for my next trick, I will shatter your perception of all mathematics.

>> No.3622234

>>3622150
winrar

>> No.3622236

>>3622217
>someone invents infinite electricity on 4chan
>someone else says /thread
well that's it, go home everyone

>> No.3622237
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[ERROR]

But it DOESN'T STOP THERE

>> No.3622243

>>3622236
Scientific Procedure.

>> No.3622242

>>3622232
That doesn't prove anything. It's just a good way to approximate the area of a circle.

>> No.3622241

>>3622150

So what would happen?

>> No.3622262

I plan on using these for my class I'm TA ing to help people think critically about things like this. It's goona be interesting to see what resons people come up with for why these work/don't work.

>> No.3622266

No external forces is the usual answer to any of these.

op is a beefflap cuntfucker covers everything else.

>> No.3622269
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>>3622242
>2011
>approximating

>> No.3622278
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....?

>> No.3622294

>>3622237
Holy shit I didn't know a Dyson fan magnified intelligence. Maybe it truly is worth $200

>> No.3622332

>>3622294
Would an intelligent Dyson Fan magnify its own intelligence? What if two are pointed at each other? Would the intelligence collect in the middle?

>> No.3622339

Friction
/thread

>> No.3622347
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[ERROR]

>>3622278
You are a magnificent man of science.

You are so scientific you bring a tear to my eye

>> No.3622360
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>>3622332
And that's how a Halo Ring works.
Thanks, James Dyson.

>> No.3622361

If there's no such thing as infinite energy then where does gravity come from

>> No.3622366
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>>3622361
Matter.
But the matter is entropitizing so it isn't infinite.

>> No.3622370

>>3622367
>drawing his own reaction images
Someone give this man a fucking SCIENCE PRIZE

>> No.3622367
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>>3622347

>3622278
>You are a magnificent man of science.

>You are so scientific you bring a tear to my eye

>> No.3622374
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[ERROR]

Boredom makes you do crazy things sometimes.

>> No.3622384

>>3622374
Sup baby doll give me one of these:

:'3

>> No.3622386

>>3622374
But you're only drawing Adam Sandler, get some variety already.
Also, start putting a great amount of detail into the hands, eyes, nose and NOTHING ELSE.

>> No.3622398
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[ERROR]

>> 3622384
How about no.

>> No.3622423

I will split your cunt you pansy shit. DIE

>> No.3622494

>>3622398
Fuck You Fuck You cunt ass twat.

>> No.3622592

I think perpetual motion machines are great educational opportunities, and it's a shame to just dismiss them with appeals to conservation of energy or thermodynamics.

Getting into the details of how, specifically, it won't work, how the forces balance out so it won't move, and so on, is a very productive exercise for correcting the specific misunderstandings of the person who can't initially see why it won't work.

>> No.3622613

>>3622592
Agreed. I like some of the math equations that "prove 1=2"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_fallacy

>> No.3622630
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>>3622494

.,|,.

>> No.3622802

>>3622630
You draw like an autist. Probably suck like one too.

>> No.3622983
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>>3622802

You're ruined my dreams and made me want to commit suicide. Dick.

>> No.3623006
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[ERROR]

>> No.3623013

>>3622983
I like your drawings, bro.

>> No.3623077
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[ERROR]

>>3623013

you restored my faith. :)

>> No.3623128

>>3623006

Wouldn't this technically work?

I mean obviously you'd need an absurdly huge container and an impossibly strong and light containment structure, but if you theoretically had that, this would at least take you pretty far into the outer atmosphere, right?

>> No.3623142

>>3623128

No.

>> No.3623155

>>3622150
This is almost exactly the same wording I used about a year ago after a long thread of trolling and confusion.
Did you copypasta it?

>> No.3623159
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[ERROR]

revised

>> No.3623168

>>3623006
Some sort of carbon nanostructure might be strong + light enough. Give it time. It's a good era to be alive

>> No.3623186

>>3623159
Something has to power the airflow

The engine itself? As long as the energy required for the airflow is less than or equal to that of the energy produced from the spinning paddle

>> No.3623252

>>3623006
>>3623142
^^ He's right it can't be done.
Here's why: (the short answer is that you would need infinite volume)

Say we have density <span class="math">\rho_{0}[/spoiler] for the atmosphere. Now say that the ship has volume <span class="math">V_{s}[/spoiler], then the buoyant force from the atmosphere is <span class="math">\rho_{0}V_{s}g[/spoiler]
That is the force that the air pushes UP on the ship REGARDLESS of the gas it contains.

Now, let's call the density of the gas <span class="math">\rho_{g}[/spoiler], and let's just say that the gas is in a container that is a fraction f of the total volume of the ship <span class="math">V_{g}=fV_{s}[/spoiler]
So now the force that gravity applies to the ship DOWNWARD is:
<span class="math">\rho_{g}V_{g}g=\frac{1}{2}\rho_{g}V_{s}g-W[/spoiler]
where W is the weight of the rest of the ship (cargo, passengers, etc..)

So now the NET FORCE is:
<span class="math">\rho_{0}V_{s}g-f\rho_{g}V_{s}g-W[/spoiler]
If the ship is to float then this would have to be greater than or equal to zero:
<span class="math">\rho_{0}V_{s}g-f\rho_{g}V_{s}g-W\ge 0[/spoiler]
<span class="math">\rho_{0}V_{s}g\ge f\rho_{g}V_{s}g+W[/spoiler]
<span class="math">\rho_{0}\ge f\rho_{g}+\frac{W}{V_{s}g}[/spoiler]

Now, if we are talking about filling our blimp with vacuum then we have:
<span class="math">\rho_{0}\ge \frac{W}{V_{s}g}[/spoiler]

What does this tell us? As you increase the volume then the fraction on the right side becomes smaller and smaller, so all we have to do is make the volume large enough to satisfy the above inequality and you would float up and up until the you were outside of our atmosphere.


The problem here is that the density of the gas also depends on how high you are, so in order for you to reach space (zero atmosphere, zero density) then the fraction on the right would have to be zero, so this means you would need INFINITE VOLUME!!!
But you can get pretty close if all the parameters are right.

>> No.3623267

>>3623252
was that supposed to be rendered differently? and what if we only wanted to fly as high as planes

>> No.3623272

>>3623159
Congratulations... You invented the windmill -_-
Also you are forgetting an outlet for the air to flow out, otherwise it wouldn't even work at all.

>> No.3623281

>>3623252
Wouldn't your momentum from ascension allow for an extra boost?

>> No.3623299

>>3623267
It all looks rendered fine to me...

But to go as high as planes just balance the equation:
<span class="math">\rho_{0}\ge f\rho_{g}+\frac{W}{V_{s}g}[/spoiler]

so just look up the density of the air at that elevation, then set W equal to the NON-gas portion of the ship (so you don't even have to worry about the size of the container here, just do the weight of cargo, passengers, etc...)
Then possibly you would want to make a correction for 'g', it isn't going to be 9.8 at that elevation, so find what 'g' is at that height.
Once you have those constants, change the inequality to an EQUALITY because you want to float at that height.

and now you have two unknowns to play around with, just tweak them, there is a whole bunch of solutions.
Or if you want to use vacuum it's even easier, you only have a SINGLE unknown which is the volume of the container of vacuum. You will be able to calculate the size of the vacuum container exactly and you will be able to float the ship at the exact height you want.

>> No.3623309

>>3623281
Sure... but it wouldn't do anything.

Think about holding a ball underwater that wants to float up. Once it hits the surface what happens? It rockets super high in the air, but it eventually falls back down and settles at the surface of the water.

You would have the same thing here, you would eventually settle at the proper height, unless you are able to shoot so high that you escape the gravitational field of the Earth completely, but that's not going to happen

>> No.3623319

>>3623309
I didn't mean you would, I was just wondering if it would be enough to leave whatever we're drawing the line as the edge of the atmosphere.

>> No.3623350

>>3623319
Oh. Well that could be calculated as well, you would just have to write the equation for the force and (without setting it to zero as I did in the original derivation) and the take an integral over the height, you will get the force at the top where the buoyant force stops (if it's negative or zero then you will not shoot up beyond the atmosphere) if it's positive then you will shoot up (if you want you could do another calculation to find out how long until you fall back down from gravity though).
But again all of this depends on the weight of cargo 'W', and the total volume of the ship Vs (the volume of the container in particular) and in the case of the forces it would also depend on how far down you start.
If you start right at the equilibrium point you will obviously not shoot up at all... So the farther down you start the higher it will shoot up (if it does at all).