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/sci/ - Science & Math

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[ERROR] No.3583095 [Reply] [Original]

We discuss piracy.

I feel that a large thing people forget when opposing piracy is that the pirates most likely would not buy whatever they're pirating in the first place. That being said, are the devs, actors, musicians, or whoever really missing out?

>> No.3583112

99.9% of the shit I pirate, I wouldn't have bought anyway. Noe one is missing out on my patronage.

>> No.3583108

>>3583095
just buy your shit faggot

>> No.3583116

http://www.osnews.com/story/24376/Piracy_Increases_Anime_DVD_Sales_Study_Concludes

>> No.3583124

>>3583112
Ok. If something you pirate is just damn good, would you buy it. Say it just be a movie that you honestly liked or a small-time program that meets your needs and does it VERY well.

>> No.3583130

>>3583095

The state has taken the ownership out of the hands of the creator with anti-piracy laws.

>> No.3583154

>>3583124
I do. I bought a few movies after torrenting them. I see it more of a rental than anything.

>>3583130
What do you mean?

>> No.3583165

>>3583130
It's not anti-piracy laws, it's copyright laws.

By law, the default option for copywritten material is that it be forbidden to do anything with it outside of "fair use".

It's sensible if we assume the majority of copyright holders don't want their material copied.

However, if the majority of copyright holders do want their material copied, or we believe it's more "ethical" to leave the option up to the copywriter, then permission to copy should be default.

There are lots of cases like orphan software, where technically a copyright exists, except nobody (not even a government entity) owns it, but since copyright law by default forbids re-using a work, the material can't be reused despite no one having possible harm.

>> No.3583166

>>3583124
If I had money, I would. But I'm broke.

>> No.3583173

>>3583154

Theft of labor is a subjective idea, in that the creator can determine if there will be any response to an alleged theft. The creator no longer decides when the state claims all piracy is punishable.

>> No.3583216

I see. Are you, yourself, a pirate?

>> No.3583232

>>3583173
>Conspiracy

>> No.3583265

>>3583112
>Patronage.
I believe you mean, gambling.

>> No.3583271
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>> No.3583276

>>3583271
how?

>> No.3583284

I've been to 6 concerts in the last year. Totaling probably $150 spent.

I would never have even known about the bands -let alone gone to their shows- had I not pirated their music.

>> No.3583285

>>3583271
How the fuck can it?

>> No.3583295
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>highly advanced 3D printers

Now you really can download a car!

>> No.3583297

>>3583276
>>3583285
Using troll logic, anything is possible.

>> No.3583300

>>3583284
This. I pirate albums to see if I'd actually like them. I'm not a fan of paying for shit I do not like or DISLIKE for that matter.

>> No.3583323

>>3583295
>20XI
>not printing bears

>> No.3583327

>>3583095

if I could figure out how to download a bear, I by god would do it.!

>> No.3583330

>>3583327
>newsgroups.

>> No.3583335

>>3583297

Not buying the game = 0 dollars in their pocket.
Pirating the game = 0 dollars in their pocket

No troll logic there.

>> No.3583347

I steal cars because, hey, I wasn't going to pay for it anyway.

>> No.3583353

>>3583347
This.

>> No.3583356

>>3583347
I don't think that's the proper logic to go into this with.

>> No.3583359

>However, if the majority of copyright holders do want their material copied, or we believe it's more "ethical" to leave the option up to the copywriter, then permission to copy should be default.

I think its more ethical to let people decide if they want to be shot or not, so then we should assume that everyone want to be shot unless we know otherwise for certain.

>> No.3583361

musicians probably do take a hit in their salaries, but I don't give a fuck that it's going to take them another month before they can afford to throw money away on another rolls royce

>> No.3583365

>2011
>using the term "piracy" in this context

costanza.jpg

>> No.3583369

>>3583365
I honestly wanted to put in quotation marks but I felt an imminent derail would arise.

>> No.3583404

>>3583365
Well what would you call it?

>> No.3583406
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[ERROR]

First things first. Realize the disaster in trying to solve a unsolvable problem. Pirates will always exist, in every platform available. You can't change that. The only thing you can do is to work around it.

That being said. Pirates don't give a fuck because they're human beings. And human beings trying to stop other pirate human beings from doing what human beings do is a endless cycle.

Deal with it.

>> No.3583411

>>3583347
I go over to your house and make an exact copy of your car and drive off with it.
"oh no that fucker stole my car that is still sitting in my driveway" -you

>> No.3583415

>>3583411
nah he'd be chill long as his shit didn't get fucked up in the process. But the manufacturer would be pissed.

>> No.3583438

Someone who argues that they pirate stuff they wouldn't normally buy, by that logic, should, if they pirate something and enjoy it, buy it. Why would you even attempt to get something you didn't want to play anyway? With the option of piracy, you can ALWAYS simply say, "I wasn't going to buy it anyway." Of course you weren't. You can easily pirate it. It's a lame excuse if you ask me.

>> No.3583458

>>3583438
I pirate what I can't afford and what I want to to try.
I buy what I feel I want, or I'll remove because fuck bloat.

>> No.3583463

I would move to an Offshore Holding Company....invoke the GNU license, and put myself into the 47% that have no taxable income.

>> No.3583497

Honestly I think piracy may actually be good for culture.

Not because it's more easily spread, but because since people can try things before paying for them, people only end up paying to creators they like, for products they like, instead of giving them money because they were curious. It kinda diminishes "culture of shock" i guess.

>> No.3583514

>>3583095
if i could download a bear i would do that shit in a second.

go to the library and download it, watch the hilarity ensue

>> No.3583554

>>3583514
this thread is now about hypothetical bear downloading.

>> No.3583698

I like the library idea.
But it should be a Polar bear... they are more excitable.

>> No.3583739

Each pirated copy of a game or other software does not equal one lost sale. It equals a small fraction of a lost sale, based on the chance that the pirate would have bought the game if it could not be pirated. At best, it is unconventional marketing, and at worst, it is a small cost that has to be tanked to do business in software.

As for content, ie, movies, shows, music? No moral grey area whatsoever. It is not wrong to download these things. There are better profit models available, and if we continue to play ball with the publishers who try to take modern business costs and sell at legacy unit prices, they'll keep doing it. Refusing to be gouged is not the same as stealing.

>> No.3583751

>>3583739
exactly, there's a reason music costs plummeted with the rise of piracy

you think 99 cent songs would exist if we went the RIAA's opnion on how to run the show?

>> No.3583766

>>3583751
You think .99 a song is reasonable?

>> No.3583771

>>3583751

Even 99 cent songs are a weird way for a band to force you to pay for them to advertise their gigs to you.

Because, as we all know, artists make most of their money from gigging, not music sales.

>> No.3583777

>>3583766
no, I think it's still shit, but it's any movement in pricing at all

>> No.3583851

I'm 23 years old and I've been pirating all my life and so have all of my computer-litterate friends except perhaps one, and that guy precisely fits the dictionary definition for "rich person."

Once each of us got old enough to have our own personal economy, we started buying games, and recently with Steam being almost as convenient as piracy. We even regularly buy games later which we pirated previously because we couldn't quite afford them.
We pretty much agree that if a game we pirated wasn't disappointing, it feels wrong not to buy it at least eventually.

It's not even like we all wait for price drops or anything, though that certainly is part of it for the poorer of us; We regularly pre-order games that we look forward to.

Hell, on steam alone i own over 150 individual titles (and no, i'm not counting free games, demos or non-steam games in the list) and my friends have similar stats.
I don't think there's a SINGLE GAME i ever came CLOSE to enjoying that i don't own fair and square.

But i think i pirated most of them. Fuck if i remember.

>> No.3583879

I'm 23 years old and I've been sucking dicks all my life and so have all of my computer-litterate friends except perhaps one, and that guy precisely fits the dictionary definition for "heterosexual person."

Once each of us got old enough to have our own streetcorner, we started sucking dicks, and recently with Steam being almost as convenient as piracy. We even regularly suck dicks later which we pirated previously because we couldn't quite afford them.
We pretty much agree that if a dick we pirated wasn't disappointing, it feels wrong not to suck it at least eventually.

It's not even like we all wait for price drops or anything, though that certainly is part of it for the poorer of us; We regularly suck dicks that we look forward to.

Hell, on steam alone i own over 150 individual dicks (and no, i'm not counting free dicks, demos or non-steam dicks in the list) and my friends have similar stats.
I don't think there's a SINGLE DICK i ever came CLOSE to enjoying that i don't own fair and square.

But i think i pirated most of them. Fuck if i remember.

>> No.3583892

>>3583879
Oh fuck a communist

>> No.3583934

>>3583879
not sure if red herring or ad hominem

>> No.3583941

>>3583934
a bit of both as far as I can see.

>> No.3583956

>>3583879
I'm the dude who wrote this.
I didn't do the rewrite, but i sort of enjoyed it.

Not sure where that is on the troll scale.. But i figured i'd at least congratulate the author on a job well done. Whatever it is.

God damn it i'm literally passing out from sleep deprivation gotta go

>> No.3584102

The idea of piracy being theft is an illusion perpetrated by the record companies who want to PR spin their campaigns against piracy, in the name of supporting their antiquated business model.

I've always considered it more like reading a newspaper left on a table in a cafe. You didn't buy it, but your use of it isn't causing anyone harm. Eventually you may even buy the paper yourself, if you become a regular reader, where otherwise you wouldn't have been exposed. It's simply free advertising.

Consider the major piracy groups:

Films; cinema prices are usually as much as a disc. Personally if I've seen a film there, I consider myself able to download it.

Games; when was the last time you found a working pirated multiplayer game, without having to resort to dodgy servers with poor latency and maintenance? If people want legit servers, which is a limited resource that's being consumed by their use, then they have to pay. Otherwise, no harm, and as ever it's free advertising/fan-gaining.

Books: libraries. Enough said.

TV Episodes: again free advertising of the show in question. Once it's sold to the network the revenue is generally entirely dependant on merchandise.

Anime: piracy _created_ the foreign anime market. The industry'd be 30 years behind if bootlegging had never happened.

>> No.3584137

If the supply is unlimited, the price is zero.

>> No.3584146
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>>3583771

You know why that is? See picture. If people downloaded the music and donated to the artist directly, they'd make vastly more money. RIAA/MPAA just exist to support themselves and the business model.

>> No.3584159

seems like a good thread to post this... where do you guys download your textbooks from? i want to save cash not spend over $300 on textbooks

>> No.3584434
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>>3584146
To emphasize, this pic of tv producer Aaron Spelling's "house" illustrates what the RIAA is demanding you pay for.

>> No.3584439

>>3584434
oh no its so big what an injustice

>> No.3584447
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[ERROR]

What is known as "piracy" today used to be covered by the Fair Use Act up until around 1999/2000 when the illegal cartels like the MPAA and RIAA paid their way through congress to enact all sorts of bills criminalizing the act. Pic marginally related.

>> No.3584489
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>see this thread
>have ipod with 2k songs on it all pirated
I'm not here to justify piracy or anything but I go to see bands I like live all the time, even buy the overpriced tea shirts and pay my respects to them
Most anything digitally distributed will end up going to some corperation or record label or an exec who has more money than me
I support bands, not huge companies.
Thats what music is about
Of course even then not much money goes to the band even then but it's better than being a full on dirty pirate and more affordable than paying for everything

>> No.3584492

>>3584489
>tea shirt

>> No.3584501
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[ERROR]

>>3584492
can we pass it off as me being a dumb tripfag and move on?

>> No.3584512

>>3584146

Wow.

If I download fifteen dollars worth of content, and donate fifty cents to the creator of that content, they are already coming out ahead of where they would be on the old model.

>> No.3584551

I own thousands of cds, and ripping all of them to my computer is simply not possible. I have tried before and about 40 cds into my collection my computer crashed. So when ever I feel like listening to a cd I just download it.

>> No.3584589

>>3584551
I understand there are some new devices they have just come out with called "CD players". You should look into them

>> No.3584590

>>3584589
it's not the same level of convenience as having it on an HDD

>> No.3584596

In 1991 everyone listened to the radio and their friends' collections to find out what they liked, and then bought the CDs because that was the only way to have the music to listen to anytime.
Then people started stealing music over the Internet. Why?
Simply because they could do it without getting caught. That's the long and short of it.
The self-important justifications of that behavior came later.

>> No.3584614

way back in the day, almost in the 1980's, there were things called radio and cassette recorders. So you could listen to music for free on the radio and when a song came on that you liked you could record it to a cassette and play it back whenever, wherever. They even invented battery powered cassette players so you could walk around and listen to music!

the moral of the story is 30 short years ago, and even today it wasn't illegal to listen to music for free, or to record what you heard for private use.

Pirating music is just the same rights we've always had, now outlawed to protect the wealthy.

>> No.3584635

>>3584614
Sure, if you wanted a shitty casette copy with lots of noise and poor sound reproduction, that you had to record by waiting for the song to come on and then hitting the record button, missing the first few seconds and probably getting the stupidfucking DJ talking over the last few seconds or segueing into the next song.
Or if you wanted a second generation cassette recording which was even shittier.
The real moral is, there is no moral to the present music theft behavior. It's everyone ripping off the songwriters, artists and recording engineers simply because they can.

>> No.3584641

>>3584635
>implying the common people can be blamed for record companies paying artists pennies
>implying the current music production industry deserves money for shit pop songs

>> No.3585063

>>3583095
Surprise surprise. A german institute which performs research in order of companies was once assigned to find out if people who pirate movies also spend more money on movies general.

Guess what: They actually do.

Source:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=
1&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fdigital%2Finternet%2F2011-07%2Fgfk-studie-dow
nloads
http://www.zeit.de/digital/internet/2011-07/gfk-studie-downloads

>> No.3585080
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[ERROR]

>>3583554
If you could make a printer that extracted the necessary materials from the air around it

>You'd create a world where money would be worthless, gold would be worthless, and food and water would be abundant.

It'll happen in my lifetime, and I can't wait.

>> No.3585085

I pirated stuff simply because its was far more convenient than buying stuff.
Now with the advent of digital download distribution I prefer to buy my games, I even bought some games I pirated before and enjoyed, for example Doom 3, Sins of a solar empire or Mass Effect series, just to support the authors, even when I already finished the game.

>> No.3585116

there are no shops that sell original disks here, so we all just pirate our shit. so no, theyre not missing out on anything