American vs. European education system

[Anonymous No.3572744]

Which one is better? On what levels? Why?

[Anonymous No.3572750]

oh boy. .

[Liberty !!nQrIRh+JHbs No.3572754]

>>3572744

The rankers say American.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3572756]

Yuropoor > Amerifat

Well also bump, I'm interested in this thread too.

[Anonymous No.3572758]

european is better because it has access to uncensored american science, which america isn't allowed to read.

[Anonymous No.3572765]

American. Except for England, it has a couple great schools.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3572769]

OP it would've helped if you specified a bit. The WHOLE education system? or a focus on elementary/high/university?

[Anonymous No.3572779]

America certainly has better universities. As for public education, America is pretty shit. Most Americans don't even learn how negative numbers work until middle school.

[Anonymous No.3572807]

>>3572769

> On what levels?
= e.g. European one on elementary/high and American one on uni level, because...

[Pharamualpha !!PIkGeQ80O8N No.3572814]

Speaking as an American citizen, I believe European education to be better. Especially the language department. Many European students are able to pick up languages at a far more proficient rate because of the age at which they started. Honestly, I'm jealous of that.

[Liberty !!nQrIRh+JHbs No.3572823]

> speaking as an American citizen

Stopped reading right there.

[Anonymous No.3572825]

1. Asia
2. White Americans
3. Yurop
...
...
...
481974193241.brown skins

[Anonymous No.3572830]

>>3572779
Let me help you out with a bit of correction there.

America has some (as in a few) very good universities. Unfortunately it also has a plethora of completely retarded (often christian) universities and colleges.

The quality of Universities in Western Europe is much more even. In a statistical manner one might say that on the average europe has better universities than america, but america has a larger spread of quality, making some of their universities better than those of europe.

But really none of that matters. In just another ten years all the worlds best universities will be in asia.

[Anonymous No.3572835]

>>3572814
>implying we need more than 1 language
cultures are not sacred inviolable entities, they do not need to be preserved, only useful ideas need to be preserved and other information that has a chance of being useful stored cheaply in libraries.

[Anonymous No.3572834]

>>3572779

>flashback to middle school learning about negative numbers

Confirmed.

But I think college is where it really matters. The educational system is more of a way of sorting us than anything else.

[Anonymous No.3572843]

>>3572834
Fuck dude I just realized that as well. America sucks.

[Anonymous No.3572847]

>>3572814

On the other hand, countries in the Europe are not that large like in the US, so it's not a problem to visit a completely different country if you want to get better in their language. Also, and this will probably sound inappropriate, but the major issue here, in my opinion, is the purchasing power parity. Considering the fact that most of the Europeans can not (or couldn't have earlier) purchase(d) everything they want to, can not do everything they want to (I am not implying Americans can, but they do definitely have more opportunities, ceteris paribus), etc., it's more about endeavour right here. We're "forced" to learn.

[Pharamualpha !!PIkGeQ80O8N No.3572997]

>>3572823
I conceded that European education was better you prick.

[Anonymous No.3573003]

>>3572997

I don't think he was implying what you think he was implying. Actually, I'm sure of it.

[Pharamualpha !!PIkGeQ80O8N No.3573006]

>>3573003
Then what was he implying?

[Anonymous No.3573043]

>>3572825

>Finland ranking among the 'mongol master race'
>lose all credibility

[Anonymous No.3573099]

I think that the US and Europe both have very high quality Universities, but I feel like the US has more. The US is also larger, so they have that to be factored in.
I don't know about the rest of the world, but at least in California the teachers union has major foothold in the government and has royally fucked the public school system.

The reason they start learning other languages in Europe is because it's more relevant to them. If the different states had their own languages then I'm sure that we Americans would start learning those other languages much sooner.

[Anonymous No.3573134]

>>3573043
Well we're not exactly indo-european either.

[Anonymous No.3573146]

>>3573099

>Shares a huge border with Mexico and have lots of immigrants who only speak Spanish.
>Also shares a large border with French-speaking Canada.

>lol we don't have to learn languages really!!

[Anonymous No.3573185]

>>3573043
Finland's education system is one of the best in the world, they have an interesting take on education and teaching. Teachers are held in very high regard and it is a very popular profession which gives them a lot of teachers to choose from and as such their teaching proficiency is superb. Children are able to have a larger input in their choice of studies which results in a greater interest in school. They can also choose a vast array of courses to read, some courses ranging only over a couple of weeks. This results in a lot of homework of course but you actually feel like you are getting something out of school instead of just following a standardized curriculum.

[Anonymous No.3573490]

>>3572779

I agree, I pulled straight A's in grade school without studying. The whole curriculum is dumbed down so any moron can pass.

[Anonymous No.3573497]

>>3573146

[Anonymous No.3573680]

I'd say Europe to be honest..... The U.S. has quite bad science, maths and reading scores... and a lot of European countries get higher ones..12 i think.

No doubt U.S. has brilliant universities like the Ivy league ones which turn over huge sums of money so can afford a lot of shit.

But in all honesty... I live in Ireland which has a fucking terrible education system, even the teachers know it's pretty bad... But Ireland still beats america on science and reading and has the same maths score as the U.S......

[Anonymous No.3573714]

>>3573146
We don't, but they do.

[Anonymous No.3573722]

i don't think this is a question of which continent is best but rather which take on education is best

to me it looks like america focusses on producing a small number of very well educate people at the expanse of the masses, while europe rather tries to give everyone an oppertunity at upper education

whichever one is best hard to say, both us and eu are in the shithole now
tho the us system does appear to favor the old rich as your studies come with crippling debts, while in eu you can come out with some money

for that simple practical reason i appreciate the eu systems, because my parents aren't in the top 1% income group

[Anonymous No.3573727]

>>3573722
>2011
>not being in the top 1% income group

ISHYGDDT

[Anonymous No.3573728]

>>3572779

There are negative numbers?!??! How does that work?

[Anonymous No.3573733]

>>3573727

posting on 4chan
being wealthy and succesfull (or coming from sucha family)

pick one

[Anonymous No.3573745]

>>3573733

>being mad
>you

pick both

[Anonymous No.3573752]

>>3573146
>putting the onus on the native population to learn the language of the immigrants, many of them illegal

yeah, that sounds right

[Anonymous No.3573768]

>>3573752
>native

[Anonymous No.3573800]

>>3573733
> knowing what ones talking about
> being you
pick definitely not both

[Anonymous No.3573813]

We should all learn cherokee

[Anonymous No.3573944]

High school is no contest:

Europe > America

Universities:

The top ones are about equal, but for the sheer fact that America has MORE of the top ones

America > Europe

[Anonymous No.3573973]

Obviously an american started this fucking thread. Like you can really generalise about a european education system - it's vastly different in every country you retard.

[Anonymous No.3573995]

i would have to think europe has better educational systems until the university level. i remember i never once studied for test, besides maybe 5 minutes beforehand, slept thru classes, and still came out of high school with a 4.0. I remember my senior year of physics spending a day or two with the teacher going over the metric system and how to convert aimple things like centimeters into meters etc, another week on how to use a calc, etc. Teachers not teaching, teachers coming in hungover as fuck once a week, etc.

On the upside in todays world, if you want to learn or educate yourself all you need is motivation, a computer, and an internet connection.

[Anonymous No.3574029]

>>3572744
As a student in one of the "highest ranked" European Universities, I always found the American system more impressive.

We get quite a lot of US students from well know institutions and it is interesting to hear from them what they think.

I myself have only been at a very brief visit at the California institute for technology, still I was left very impressed. The attitude over there is somehow different.

Then again we are quite close, 3 of the 4 professors I was involved with last term were at least partially educated in the US. 1 was a post doc at Princeton and later worked at Bell Labs, another was a professor at UCLA before he came here etc...

I myself would also like to go to America someday to, they say it is a invaluable experience, but I would not like to leave Europe forever.

The UK has some elite institutions as well obviously, but they are an exception in the otherwise somewhat mediocre European higher education system, which has a large lack of elite institutions.

But it is not all bad, Europe does fine and it does not have the huge tuition fees that the US has, but I think we could do a lot better and the American top should serve as a good model for what Europe should create.

>Pic related; It is the top-THE-uni rankings in physicals sciences, not that rankings is everything, but Europe, with its larger population should be able to do better.

[Anonymous No.3574165]

There are a lot of different education systems in different European countries. It's too vast and diverse to deal with as an entity opposed to American education. There are systems that are more like the American education system than they're like other European.

[Anonymous No.3574171]

>>3573146
>mfw I live in the south, surrounded by mexicans, never had to speak spanish in my life

[Anonymous No.3574224]

>>3572830
>>3572830
this is the only truth.

Also: planning to study arts? If you speak the language go to europe.

Secondary concern: economic situation and prediction of the areas you will study in. Here in europe shit is going down, and if Spain-Italy-Greece-portugal dont get their shit straight they might go bankrupt, euro dissolves and were in a heap of shit. Luckily it seems they dont want that and were barely hanging on.

Predictions for glorious USA fare much worse. from what I hear its the titanic 2 mins pre-iceberg.

Somebody I know did a student exchange to shanghai. English primary language there but all asian Unis are extremely competitive.

[Anonymous No.3575696]

>>3574029

This anon is a gentleman and a scholar and knows what he is talking about

[Anonymous No.3576364]

>>3574224
The US has already hit the iceberg, now the government needs to do something about it otherwise we're boned.

[Anonymous No.3577499]

Hard to say. US certainly does have better universities, but they're simply just too expensive. Europe doesn't have as good universities, but most of the time they are either free or much cheaper than American ones.

For public schooling, I was in California this summer and I had americans agree with me that their public school system just sucks. Government has dumbed down most of the subjects, mostly math. I don't know about other European countries but in Czech, calculus is commonly taught in high schools and students are obligated to take between 10 and 15 classes.

[Anonymous No.3577504]

>>3577499
Plus there's no such thing as "private schools".

[Anonymous No.3577573]

>>3573722
/thread

[Anonymous No.3577956]

>>3577499
I'm from central California and live in a farming community and have a 70% graduation rate at my high school. 40% which go on to any college and 15% that ever go to a four year university. We still get about 10% of our students to take a least one Calculus class. I would imagine more prosperous parts of the state would have higher percentages.

[Anonymous No.3579243]

>>3577956
I don't know. I'm just quoting what have native Californians told me. I was in Los Angeles.

[Anonymous No.3579292]

Let's not forget Canada here, specifically, Alberta. Students graduating from an Alberta highschool have a ~15% disadvantage when compared to most other highscool graduates. As in, a student recieving an average mark in Alberta of 75% should be able to pull 90% in MOST other systems.

This is probably mostly due to the mandatory diplomas you write for 30 level (Graduating, grade 12, senior year, you get the picture) courses. However, looking at the expectations of the Alberta curriculum, I'd say the expectations are high enough without the diploma exams...

[Anonymous No.3579313]

>>3579292

Cont.


The Universities and Colleges in Canada don't seem to offer much else then other post-secondary education when compared to the States or Europe. The competition to get into the universities tends to be slightly higher, however, resulting in the grade cutoffs to be slightly higher then in the states. An averagely smarter class could potentially improve learning, via the whole conjecture of "Put a gifted child in a room of challenged students and the gifted child will preform mediocrely at best, put an average student in a room of gifted children and he'll preform better" studies and crap.

[Anonymous No.3579350]

So we keep hearing of how the US only prioritises elite institutions, while Europe gives education to the masses.

But if one looks at the worlds top 200 uni list (THE)
81 are in North America
82 are in Europe

The US has the clear advantage in Elite institutions (top 20ish) while the total between the continents is almost the same.

And looking at top 200 is looking far beyond the cutting edge elite.

Considering population differences:
>502,486,499 in the EU
>308 745 538 in the US
America does better, even for the masses.

>Once again rankings are not the best way to compare but it is certainly the easiest , and it gives a good hint.

[Anonymous No.3579354]

>>3579350
>America does better, even for the masses.

I don't see how this follows from anything in your post.

[Anonymous No.3579385]

>>3579354
Well, it all depends on how you define masses of course.

But the point I was trying to make is that the US is not only the "ultra-elite" of the top 10.

They match Europe all the way down during the THE top 200.

And since Europe has a far larger population then the US that would imply they have more institute per citizen (at this level).

So it one still wants to argue that the European system is better, one would have to say that it is better outside of the Top 200.


And somewhere down there it does not matter any more, since in science you are first or not first.

A small institute as Caltech with its 2175 students and 31 Nobel prizes is worth to more to science then a mammoth of 40 000 students that merely teaches everyone linear algebra and is weak in research.

>but that is just like my opinion man.

[Anonymous No.3579412]

>>3579385
>since Europe has a far larger population then the US that would imply they have more institute per citizen (at this level).

Europe is geographically smaller (let's not kid ourselves, we're talking about West Europe here, which is even smaller), so I don't think it is any surprise that we have fewer institutes per citizen. Just send more people to each one.

By your reasoning, Caltech could split into ten institutes and then America would be totally dominating science research by the number of Nobel prizes for each one. But that doesn't make any sense. What matters is the quality and quantity of research and education, especially when you consider that the size of the student body varies by at least 2 orders of magnitude.

[Anonymous No.3579441]

>>3579412
>By your reasoning, Caltech could split into ten institutes and then America would be totally dominating science
Yes, but that is not the way it is if you look at the lists. Caltech is an exception, the size of US and European institutes are very similar in general.

>What matters is the quality and quantity of research and education
Indeed. But how to measure it? Nobel prizes? Largest hi-tech companies? elite universities? Top universities? Largest economy? Global influence?
>The US dominates every category. (I am not speculating on the future about Asia expected rise now)

If one measures the knowledge of 15 year old kids like >>3572825 PISA does then the US is not on top.

But is that really an argument that Europe does better?

[Anonymous No.3579452]

>>3579441
>But is that really an argument that Europe does better?

Not really (except for Finland of course). But I think that tests such as PISA are probably the most objective way of judging which education systems work best, without getting sentimental.

It is worth mentioning that influential research institutes compound their own power simply by existing because they snatch the best researchers from other countries. As China rises in dominance, American research will not fall suddenly because of "prestige inertia". Also, fuck speaking Chinese.

[Anonymous No.3579457]

>>European Education System

LOL

>>American Education System

ROFL

[Anonymous No.3579465]

>>3579452
>is worth mentioning that influential research institutes compound their own power simply by existing because they snatch the best researchers from other countries.

Yes, there has not been a single more devastating thing to European science then the American brain-drain from WW2 onwards, but we see some light at the end of the tunnel now. A good example is the LHC and CERN in general which serves as a good example of European brain-drain from the US.

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_drain#Europe

[Anonymous No.3579470]

I think that Europe has been mostly recovering from massive loss of minds because of war and commie crap.
But things are getting better and with all the shiny projects going on in Europe (CERN, Grenoble, ELI...) it will be even soon

[Anonymous No.3579474]

>>3579465
Yes, from now on it will be Chinese brain drain.

[Anonymous No.3579478]

>>3579470
>commie crap
>things are getting better and with all the shiny projects going on in Europe (CERN, Grenoble, ELI...)
>mfw the shiny things are paid for by central government and taxation

Commie crap indeed.

[Anonymous No.3579493]

>>3579478

Maybe they are funded publicly, but for most of the machinery and instruments they hire private companies to make it for them, effectively supporting science and development of private sector at the same time.

Basic research is rarely funded privately because it mostly doesn't create anything that could be sold.

And stop attacking strawman. Child could see what I meant. In totalitarian communist countries it was impossible to get to foreign conferences, cultural and therefore intellectual exchange was limited to absolute minimum etc.

[Anonymous No.3579494]

>>3579478
>I think that Europe has been mostly recovering from massive loss of minds because of war and commie crap.
It is a obvious reference to the totalitarian communist dictatorships that plagued parts of Europe.

>Lets be a bit nuanced.
State founded science=/=Communist dictatorship

[Anonymous No.3579519]

>>3579493
>totalitarian communist countries it was impossible to get to foreign conferences

Nope.avi

A lot of researchers defected because they had the freedom to do just that.

[Anonymous No.3579537]

i didn't see anyone here arguing about us dominance in producing results in the field of science (could be measured in nobel prices or high impact papers)

but in eu as a student you are better off, getting into a science program general means only have to have a high school diploma, no interviews
the example of caltech has been mentioned, now to how many devils must 'a student' sell his soul to get in t here >>3579350
rankings are a really fuzzy way to compare unies below the top level, having been to several eu ones on that list i would certainly flip the order of some on there

but the point i am trying to make here is: US education: results count
EU education: giving every student a shot at it counts

these are 2 very different approaches that can't be compared on 1 single level, if you measure noble prices and publication, of course us wins, that's expected
if you look at the larger picture; large companies present, jobmarket, standard of living, those kind of things
is there really that much of a difference (current crisis not counted off course)

as mentioned above, from my own personal experience i say i am glad i was born in the eu because in the us i prob would not have been able to go to a university


(on an unrelated note, what is this china will rule the world crap, of the us and the eu fall it is another dark age, china can't stand on it's own
have you ever worked with chinese scientists, when you do, you'll know better)

[Anonymous No.3579549]

American education system seems worse for the fact that it has to deal with niggers and other bullshit. Homogeneous countries have it easy with education.

[Anonymous No.3579545]

>>3579519
There was quite a long list of people that Communist Party kept who couldn't leave their country without a shitload of paperwork and spying secret service on all their family. Shit was tense those times. Something like that happened in my family so stop bullshitting me. Agents came to our hose at midnight, did complete house search and left the whole place a mess. Dad thought he was about to go to gulag or some shit. All because one uncle had some problems with commies in the past and other uncle wanted to go to conference in France.

Read fucking 1984, that's pretty much how eastern and central europe look like back then.

Sage, because this is going off-topic.

[Anonymous No.3579554]

>>3579537
If the US and EU fall, China will demand direct intervention of its investments.

[Anonymous No.3579558]

Australia, Cuba, Finland

/thread

[Anonymous No.3579565]

>>3579545
>1984
>real world

I don't want to troll, but I'm not sure this is a good comparison to draw. And the fact is that your uncle went to a conference in France and nothing more came of this.

[Anonymous No.3579574]

>>3579565
He didn't. He was fucking afraid for lives of his family.
People used to just fucking disappear those times.

[Anonymous No.3579579]

if you are rich amurrica, else europe. Europe has a very high quality/price ratio universities

[Anonymous No.3579580]

>>3579574
Yes. To West Germany.

[Anonymous No.3579585]

I can understand comparing particular universities but whole continents? wtf?

[Anonymous No.3579608]

>>3572814
They also have better choices available I'm sure. When I was in school it was either Mexican or Latin, the first year of Mexican was mandatory and divided across 2 years, and that shit didn't start til middle school.


Also I don't know what metric we're measuring US Universities with but I must insist that the prestige they held in the past stop being used to bolster their rating as many Americans are prone to doing. (we're still the best because of what we did years ago no matter how far we slide- type mentality)