/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3564059]

if entropy nutraly maeks all things in teh universe less organized how come galaxeis formed in the 1st place ??

[Anonymous No.3564076]

Did you... Did you just sage the OP?

[Anonymous No.3564082]

>implying the universe was organized except for our eyes

[Anonymous No.3564087]

That would proberly be the force that is keeping you planted on the ground of earth + energy from the bigbang (implying the bigbang happend) transfered into collisions.

[Anonymous No.3564106]

>>3564087
So basically you're saying that entropy increases only when an object of some sort is left undisturbed, and whatever astral objects come into existence it's because of the cosmic forces doing their thing, hence not actually leaving the object undisturbed, hence decreasing the entropy by induced ordering of energy?

[Anonymous No.3564116]

>>3564106
How many times do we have to say this:

IT'S ALL FUCKING MAGNETS

[Anonymous No.3564117]

>if entropy nutraly maeks all things in teh universe less organized
Wrong. There, read this:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/entropy.html

[Anonymous No.3564124]

>>3564117
Thanks, I'll give it a read. It better be worth it.

[Anonymous No.3564125]

>>3564117
Note this is even before more modern quantum mechanics sweeps in and you more or less have to ask "order? what combinations of effect is that supposed to be?"

[Anonymous No.3564129]

Entropy is useful either in mathematics in a classical probabilistic setting or an APPROXIMATION of reality called statistical physics. It isn't a physical concept in its own right. Neither has the second law of thermodynamics any effect outside statistical physics.

[Anonymous No.3564157]

>>3564117
Okay, I read it. The text is kinda redundant, I think.

I mean, sure, even though the general level of order decreases, there is a chance that there will be order created out of this process somewhere else.

A chance. I think it decreases as entropy increases.

The text explains why we still see new, ordered things come into existence once in a while, but in no way states that the Universe is not naturally descending into a state of disorder.

Then again, I'm a student of political science, what do I know?

[Anonymous No.3564222]

>>3564157
> Okay, I read it. The text is kinda redundant, I think.
Slightly, but there's few things that are repeated more than twice.

>The text explains why we still see new, ordered things come into existence once in a while, but in no way states that the Universe is not naturally descending into a state of disorder.

Not exactly what the text says. It doesn't really talk of "new things coming into existence". It says some "areas" of the universe may loose entropy to others and that in turn increases the ordering inside those areas. It isn't exactly "chance" - based, either, not in this text anyways.


Note "order" or "entropy" is very loosely defined somehow with "heat", energy etc. ... ultimately matter and energy being bound in some state, really.
This loose definition is surely unsatisfactory, though it also works with what we observe.

Modern Quantum mechanics is trying to get more details, and there are multiple approaches how to model things. So now there's experiments like the LHC running that hopefully might help to sieve the multiple possible models.

[Anonymous No.3564232]

Why didnt they just have eagles fly them to Rivendel?

[Anonymous No.3564237]

>>3564222
Thanks for the input, friend.

[Anonymous No.3564259]

>>3564232
That's what Gandalf was planning on doing after the Fellowship had left the Mines of Moria. The eagles live in the mountains and could not have picked the travelers at Elrond's place.

Sadly, Gandalf perished after the fight with the Balrog. Not before urging the rest of his party to "fly". Too bad they never figured his words out.

This topic is not /sci/ related. Polite sage because of that.

[Anonymous No.3564310]

>>3564237
No problem. That you have problems with the concept is normal. The world is not intuitive AND we haven't explained everything AND thermodynamics as such are highly unsatisfactory anyhow.

The mind-twisting world of quantum mechanics offers better explanations (radioactive decay and so many more things factor into "entropy") but there's still many contradictory and unconfirmed bits in models to sift through and eliminate.

This is of course famously being experimented on in really cool experiments like the LHC is. Figures if enough of these work out (or don't work out), we maybe can restate thermodynamics in far more specific terms.

[Anonymous No.3564620]

As the universe expands, and the entopy/energy in the system is eventually reduced until it is essentially static, everything has settled equidistant, stars are using up their energy' shrinking and collapsing into blackholes.

Which in turn coalesce in to the kind of super balckholes found at the center of galaxies, the universe then has completed its expansion phase, and has had enough of being static .. it then starts to shrink, the super blackholes pulling all radiation/matter/light back in. When eventualy you end up with a kind of reverse big bang and the antimatter matter version of our universe is born, until that fizzles out and then rubber bands back into the universe as we know it.

[Anonymous No.3564643]

[Anonymous No.3564683]

Here's a twist to blow your minds, /sci/.

If the universe is expanding - adding empty space everywhere at the same time - then entropy in the universe must be decreasing.

If you have clumps of matter and empty space, like this:
010000100001110001

and you add extra space between the clumps:
0001000000000000100000000001110000001

you have a structure with lower entropy in the newly-expanded space of all possibilities.

If this is not correct, where does it go wrong?

[Anonymous No.3564695]

Gravity

[Anonymous No.3564708]

>>3564683

I think the leap is saying extra space decreases entropy. What definition of entropy does that work under, exactly?

[Anonymous No.3565448]

A galaxy is less organized than an equal distribution of particle density across the universe.

[Anonymous No.3565466]

>>3564683
When you add 0's into a binary number, you are adding additional information, when you are adding empty space into the universe you are not adding additional information, the actual mass of the universe doesn't change.