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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3535104 No.3535104 [Reply] [Original]

Does free will exist? From a scientific viewpoint? No philosophy.

>> No.3535108

It's a biologically favorable illusion.

>> No.3535112

From a neurological standpoint, no. From a psychological standpoint, yes and no, you can regain some free will from your subconscious but not all of it.

>> No.3535114

>No philosophy.
"herp derp philosophy is stupid lol"

>> No.3535115

Depends on how you define it. In other words, you can't answer the question scientifically without getting into philosophy.
In terms of determinism? Probably not, unless there are quantum events that determine neural activity. I don't think this is the case, but I may be misinformed.

>> No.3535119

No, not really.

>> No.3535120

is there any possible way to prove free will exists

>> No.3535129

>>3535114
>I want a scientific discussion without referring to philosophy
>NO U CANNOT U FAGGOT DERP DERP

>> No.3535130
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3535130

not really, no.

>> No.3535135

>>3535115

Quantum mechanics doesn't secure free will either.

>> No.3535136

>>3535108
err, perhaps its a biologically favored reality?

>> No.3535141

>>3535104

Implying this has to do with mind and has no solipsistic or general relative relationship to the mind as a biological system incongruous with human constructs, the brain =/= a system of atoms/particles; it is one, but is a collective organ designed for sustaining life and giving advantage in a biological area, and is not an item to be directly studied and "judged" or be a frame for determinism by physics into what is free will, as the two have little correlation in this prospect.

>> No.3535152

there was an experiment done that's relevant to this... i forget the exact details but there was 2 or 3 buttons and you had to choose which one to press and somehow they mapped the brain activity that happens before a person presses the button and which button that means they will press... basically the results were even before you even conciously decided which button to press, the part of your brain that you are not concious about already decided which button to sometimes up to 5-6 seconds before you conciously made the decision

i think i saw it on some discovery channel show but i cant really remember....

>> No.3535158

>>3535135
>in terms of determinism

>> No.3535155

>>3535120
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will
its a start but not fully reliable

>> No.3535183

>>3535104
Its just an illusion created by the way our minds interpret reality. It exists in the same way colors exists.

>> No.3535194

>>3535104
>Does <some metaphysical concept> exist? From a <physical> viewpoint? No <metaphysics>.
>derpaderp

The question of "free will" is nonsensical in your context. You can ask if the world is deterministic, which is essentially the same thing. The answer is that we don't know if it is deterministic. Some interpretations of quantum mechanics claim that there is true randomness in the universe and that future events are therefore not certain. Other interpretations claim that there are hidden variables that may be inaccessible to use that actually determine the seemingly random events.

If the former is true then the universe is not deterministic in the sense that you can know what will happen in the future based on perfect knowledge of the current state of the universe. If the later is true then it is deterministic in that sense, but even if we could somehow access the hidden variables, we would never obtain perfect knowledge of the universe because all information about the entire system cannot be contained within a smaller part of the system. Thus even if it is deterministic, we can never predict it except locally.

>> No.3535206

>>3535194
Why is free-will a metaphysical concept? It's a consequence of human behavior, and would possibly be measured by physical devices. What's so metaphysical about it? The only thing that's metaphysical in free will is the idea that it was bestowed by god. And that's just what philosophy would add to the discussion.

>> No.3535219

Humans have a finite amount of ways to accept, interpret, and evaluate information. That information has a supremum. Scent alone can only tell you so much. Vision alone can only tell you so much. If a building is on fire 29 blocks away, will the person whose deaf and incapable of smell be able to conclude such information alone without movement? No. Sound (sirens, weewoohweewooh) and scent (smells like babies on fire) will be your clues here.

Let our information be all that we can sense (hear, taste, see, touch, smell, and imagine). Who's to say there aren't other ways of accepting information? Humans are bound in a very small box where everything has an upper limit and nothing goes unto excess without strict control. Feel free to do as you please. It's all already accounted for.

>> No.3535229

>>3535183
The illusion is to keep your sanity, the decoherence allows you to be you. If it were not real, or if we believed ot not be true, we'd be no better than ants.

>Sheeple detected.

>> No.3535247

>>3535194

Quantum mechanics does not secure 'free will'. Quantum mechanics is a very accurate model but, honestly, there's nothing 'spooky' about the quantum world - it's just the mathematics that describe waves.

All uncertainty principles arise due to mathematical transforms (conjugate variables), I can't stand the way people try to use quantum mechanics to defend any weird metaphysical nonsense.

>> No.3535267

>>3535229
>>3535229

This. This. This. This. This. This. So much. This.

>The illusion is to keep your sanity, the decoherence allows you to be you.

Keep your private logic private. <--- RULE NUMBER ONE.

"Was that two people arguing in my head?"
"NO IT WASN'T!"

>> No.3535380
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3535380

Uncertainty principle negates determinism and is therefore the only thing making free will even possible at all. Regardless of the underlying uncertainty or "randomness" of your choices, the fact that only you will know your choice after it's been made, and no one else can determine it, means it was uniquely your choice, i.e free will.

Alternatively if everything is deterministic then all of your choices can be calculated by anybody and thus we would all be automatons following a script, i.e no free will.

If an omnipotent god exists then there can be no free will either because all of your choices can be determined by god in advance. Which leads to the question if an omnipotent god creates beings knowing in advance all the choices they are going to make, then how is this god not entirely responsible for the behaviour of its creations?