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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3525526 No.3525526 [Reply] [Original]

If a country incorporated logic, as a lesson in their schools, it's almost certain the country would see a tremendous improvement in almost all areas.
Why hasn't it been done yet, being such a simple addition with so great results, but we still argue about creationism being taught?

>> No.3525547

>Why hasn't it been done yet
,because as you said we would:
>see a tremendous improvement
and politicians don't want smart people.
/thread

>> No.3525551

Every math and computer science major has to take at least one pure logic class in my university.

>> No.3525562

>>3525551

people that are bad at math are also bad at Symbolic Logic.... I know this from trying to each them...

>> No.3525559

>>3525551
I personally believe it should be everyone who didn't take maths or comp sci.

>> No.3525563

>>3525551
and math and computer science majors are considered super smart guys by the general population.
I'm talking about teaching it to the general population, as soon as possible.

>> No.3525585

Universities should require classes in formal logic, scientific reasoning, math, qualitative reasoning, and social analysis. Anything less is failing the student.

>> No.3525592

>>3525526

> logic class is mandatory
> socialism/communism is laughed at for the rest of eternity

I am okay with this.

>> No.3525601

>>3525526
suddenly a huge increase in racism.
suddenly a huge increase in anarchism (but only because they want a new government, not no government at all)
suddenly government pulls of logic from schools.
suddenly everyone is equal again.

>> No.3525608

>>3525601

> for people to be equal you have to ban logic

Haha, true.

>> No.3525640

A few reasons I can throw at you just from the top of my head
-Most educated people of the present with no knowledge of logic do not see it as essential.
-There are not enough people qualified to teach it, nor didactic material appropriate for such a course to be taught to children or teenagers.
-Inclusion of logic in the standard curriculum would probably cause other subjects to be either dropped or have their workloads reduced. There would be resistance to such a thing, especially from school teachers.

Change is hard, anon.

>> No.3525653

many colleges have a logic requirement that math/cs majors are exempted from :-)

>> No.3525661 [DELETED] 

I don't know about others countries, so I will speak only fo Greece.
From our first year at school to the twelfth (last), it is mandatory we are taught, christianity.
>TWELVE, FUCKING YEARS!

>> No.3525665

>>3525601

Well, I'm pretty good a logic

You think Logic leads one to be a Racist...
You arrived at this conclusion Logically..
therefore... you are a Racist.

>> No.3525667

don't know about other countries, so I will speak for Greece.
From our first year at school to the twelfth (last), it is mandatory we are taught, christianity.
>TWELVE, FUCKING YEARS!
I've been expelled many times for stating I think it is bullshit.

>> No.3525680

>>3525665
I am racist.
But your logic is wrong.
your second premise is wrong, because I could have used faulty logic.
A better argument would be.

I stated, think it is logical for someone to be racist.
The vast majority follow, what they think is logical, or they think that, which they follow is logical.
Therefore i must be racist.

>> No.3525685

>>3525551

Abstract and symbolic logic is one thing, but it would be nice to have, for example, a whole class on logical fallacies.

It would also be nice if "home economics" was actually that.

And if everyone had to take a philosophy of science class, for 95% of the population that would be more useful than physics, chemistry, or biology.

>> No.3525690

Mexican here, Logic is a mandatory subject on the first year of High School in Mexican schools, and it clearly hasnt made a tremendous improvement in almost all areas.

>> No.3525698

Because public education is about making people into stupid, docile serfs.

>> No.3525699

>>3525690

Welcome to genetics.

>> No.3525710

>Remove religion,art,music,physical education and foreign languages(except english) from school
>Add logic, computer science classes
>Cover more topics in the science & math classes
>Stop "No Child Left Behind"
suddenly humanity will become smarter again

>> No.3525719

>>3525640
>Most educated people of the present with no knowledge of logic do not see it as essential.
Either they are educated fools. (remember, getting a degree doesn't make someone smart.) or they actually use logic in their thought processes and they think it is as intuitive for everyone else, as with them without the need for formalization.
>There are not enough people qualified to teach it
Then it's the government's job to create some. The benefits far outweight the costs. Besides isn't it the same with every new material?
>Inclusion of logic ... from school teachers.
Unfortunately, true....

>> No.3525722

>>3525690
>Mexican here, Logic is a mandatory subject on the first year of High School in Mexican schools, and it clearly hasnt made a tremendous improvement in almost all areas.

Clearly it wasn't taught well, as that statement itself is a logical fallacy: you don't know what it would be like if it wasn't taught!

>> No.3525731

>>3525690
>Mexican here.
There is your problem.

>> No.3525741
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3525741

>>3525710
>reduce the scope of humanity's intellectual accomplishments to only what I am comfortable with
>somehow this will make people smarter

>> No.3525744

>>3525710
>Remove ...,art,music,physical education and foreign languages(except english) from school
Why would you do that?

>> No.3525747

>>3525699

you are douchebag
but you already knew that.

>> No.3525754

>>3525747
>implying Liberty knows anything

seriously, with him, it's safest to assume he's just an unconscious troll-bot

>> No.3525757

>>3525710
the spectrum of human intelligence isn't the same as asperger's.

>> No.3525766

>>3525747
>>3525754
Yeah, we get it.
Everyone is equal, Minnesota transracial adoption study was a hoax, humans don't follow the rules of nature, like other animals etc.

>> No.3525772

One of the key things that allowed the elite be ok with public education is the fact that such education would not be used to increase the enlightenment of people.

Fast forward and due to conservatism people do not view philosophy or even science (with all it's practical uses) as being as important as history or english literature.

Tl,dr: Education based on 19th century model, even in 21st century, nothing has changed.

>> No.3525781

Because throwing money at the problem doesn't address the underlying issues surrounding why school performance is so abysmal no matter how much we increase education funding.

>> No.3525783

>>3525772
Quite the opposite, even. Mandatory public education was instated to provide pliable workers who needed to serve.

>> No.3525784

>>3525766
0/10, strawman elsewhere.

>> No.3525786

>>3525766

I grew up in a Southern State.. I don't need you to explain to me WHY you are a Racist.

>> No.3525788

military junta takes over a country.
enforces completely new model of education.
even when they get taken down, their changes in the way of thought, remain.

>> No.3525793

>>3525786
But, I didn't tell you why.
This is why: because I lived in Rhodesia, during the apartheid.

>> No.3525797

>>3525793
>I'm racist because I lived through apartheid


....

>> No.3525806

>>3525793

I grew up in a State that used to have Slaves... it is the same thing.....

>> No.3525808

In the uk we can take a critical thinking course at a-level.

>> No.3525810

>>3525793
Cultural indoctrination is not destiny.

>> No.3525813

Here in Croatia we have logic in almost all the high schools as compulsory.

>> No.3525816

>>3525797
Yes, my friend, have you visited Zimbabwe today?
Not seen it through your screen. Actually been there. I've heard this from numerous blacks: If only the whites, colonized us again, we wouldn't be like this. The majority of BLAKS, there WANT the apartheid back.
Food for thought.

>> No.3525844

Yes, my white guilt Americans.
Everyone is equal, ok. That is the absolute truth.
Now can we get back to OP's subject?
I think, as long as capitalism is out economic model, and marxism our cultural one, the stupification of the masses will be the rule.

>> No.3525870

There you go OP. Here is the juvenile dwellers' of the internet opinion: The goverment is evil and they want us stupid.
THeir word is the truth.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.
.

spoiler:not really

>> No.3525882

>>3525754

that is good to know.. I just assumed he sucked Ayn Rand's clots.

>> No.3525941

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/12/study-its-not-teacher-but_n_861205.html

>> No.3525968

>>3525882

Rand is a statist. I of course do not advocate her ideas.

>> No.3525970

>>3525941
I already knew this. The best teacher I ever had was one of my classmates. Of course the fact that he now has an assload of IT patents is probably related.

>> No.3525972

>>3525968

good to know. I have a low opinion of her because she said harsh things about Kant, yet nothing she ever said indicated she had actually read his junk.

>> No.3525983

Just before I read this whole thread, in senior year of my high school you have to take logic for a year and I'm living in a shitty country. Something doesn't add up.

>> No.3525991

>>3525710
Leave foreign languages. But yes, the other subjects are pretty stupid and useless.

>> No.3525997

>>3525991
>But yes, the other subjects are pretty stupid and useless.

He says, based on nothing.

>> No.3526002

>>3525983
methodology, probably.
There is this belief, that if you have fun learning, you are not being serious about learning. It ges boring and children wll learn to parrot the words without understanding the substance.

>> No.3526009

>>3525813
And in a lot of gymnasiums in Bosnia too.

I don't really think it makes difference as big as OP thinks.

>> No.3526026

>>3526002
Dunno. A lot of kids have problems with it though. Only class ever, besides math and physics that has additional classes for those who really cant get a grip on it. I found it easy as shit though, perhaps math gives you some good foundations for logic.

>> No.3526087

Hey dawgs, can somebody give me an into text to logic?

>> No.3526103

Most people simply can't grasp symbolic logic. The word logic is thrown around a lot, but few know what it truly is.

Forcing everyone to take it would be like forcing everyone to take advanced math classes. Some would enjoy it and do well, but most would fail and despise the subject. I don't see that causing any major change in society.

>> No.3526734

>>3526087
Bumpan.

>> No.3528442

>>3526103

You are absolutely correct. I tried to teach Intro Logic....it made me cry.

>> No.3528582

>>3526103
Eh, if you are made to do it, people would tend to pass it acceptably. And if you fail, you fail, boo hoo.

>> No.3528683

Logic and critical thinking classes.
>>3525585
^ This guy has it right. Just need to incorporate it down to at least late primary school level.