/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3517045]

If /sci/ is so smart, fix the economy.

[Anonymous No.3517049]

Define "fix".

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517052]

>>3517049
Molten salt thorium reactors.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3517053]

Yeah! Okay!

[Anonymous No.3517054]

Impossible because of entrenched politics; there's always the human factor to consider in these things.

[Anonymous No.3517058]

[Anonymous No.3517072]

Raise capital gains taxes so they aren't retardedly low compared to income tax, and stop spending so much fucking money on foreign wars.

[Anonymous No.3517075]

The economy will fix itself. It just won't be good for our insane hunger for constant growth.

[Anonymous No.3517076]

1. Immediately end all the wars. Withdraw all troops from everywhere without hesitation or exception.

2. Stop spending almost entirely. Only spend on the bare essentials. Use tax revenue almost solely to pay off debt. Do not raise taxes.

3. Print more money.

[Anonymous No.3517078]

I love it when democrats blame republicans for ridiculous spending. Obama's administration is irrefutable proof that democrats spend a fuckton more.

[Anonymous No.3517083]

>>3517075

Because the economy is clearly "fixing itself"

Go watch some fucking news

[Anonymous No.3517089]

>>3517076
Someone give this man a Nobel Prize in Economics.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517087]

>>3517078
Usually you're wrong, as actual factual evidence shows you are wrong, but Obama is breaking that and attempting to outdo his predecessors, so meh. Both parties are fucking evil.

[Anonymous No.3517088]

simple. kill all major criminal's, the very stupid(bottom 5%, which is IQ below 75), and batshit insane people. This will create jobs, and cut cost's of keeping these human garbage alive, and eliminate the the costs of crime they cause(less money needed for police, fire fighters, alot less on medical, arson and reckless driving will go down alot, ect.)

Of course "morals" and "ethics" would get in the way of this. Other than that, it would fix the economy.

[Anonymous No.3517091]

>>3517078
0/10

Circumstances are different. Obama inherited a disaster.

[Anonymous No.3517092]

Nah, I'd rather fuck your mom.

[Anonymous No.3517096]

[Anonymous No.3517099]

>>3517083

Thats exactly what im talking about. Our economy was a house of cards

[Anonymous No.3517100]

>>3517092
>>3517092
reported

[Anonymous No.3517110]

>>3517100
You're a faggot. Not even the guy who posted that, but fucking retards like yourself report porn ON FUCKING 4CHAN. LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN: ON FUCKING 4CHAN.

I've been b& on /sci/ several times for posting pron. It's not a big deal, but it's a hassle to reset my router and bother the mods, all for fucking retards like you.

[Anonymous No.3517106]

[Anonymous No.3517109]

>>3517088

Poincaré had an IQ < 75 on the Stanford Binet test.

You're essentially allowing your society to be ruled by psychologists.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3517114]

>>3517083

I think it would fix itself. Thats that just the reality of how countries get out of recessions.

For example, people get unemployed, and the economy slowly finds things to do for those people until everyone is functioning again. It doesnt require any external intervention.

[Anonymous No.3517120]

>>3517088
Fucking teenagers going through a Nazi phase. Cancer. All over /sci/.

[Anonymous No.3517121]

>>3517114

uhhhh
im no economist

im sure if we did nothing, nothing would change

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3517126]

>>3517121

Well I dont believe if we "did nothing" anything would change either. However, "nothing" is not something people do. What I meant was we dont need any external interference, as in the government can "do nothing."

[Anonymous No.3517129]

>>3517121

Based on what theory/evidence?

[Anonymous No.3517133]

>>3517109
I said bottom 5%, The problem with IQ is not IQ itself, rather the measurement of it. E.G. if someone had an IQ of 120, they would be smarter than 90% of the population. The problem however is that if someone takes a IQ test and it says they got 120, it doesn't mean their IQ is actually 120 because the test is imperfect.

Also, [citation needed] on poincare having an IQ of 75

[Anonymous No.3517139]

>Start aggressive eugenics program
>Revamp education with a voucher system
>Make it easier to do business in america with deregulation
>Begin consumption tax
>Stop all welfare spending
>Remove minimum wage and crush unions
>Cut corporate tax
>Raise capital gains tax
>Actually start taking oil from the middle east

Turn society into a machine.

[Anonymous No.3517142]

>>3517129

Based on what evidence does an economy magically "fix itself"

[Anonymous No.3517144]

>>3517142

It does that every day.

[Anonymous No.3517147]

>>3517142

Yes because it is clearly getting better

this thread is full of retards. no wonder scientists don't run this country

[Anonymous No.3517154]

>>3517139
just what i want, being slave to a machine

[Anonymous No.3517158]

>>3517154

And what would you suggest?

[Anonymous No.3517165]

For the national debt:

Sharply reduce defense spending. End wars in Iraq/Afghanistan. Shut down military bases in foreign countries. Raise top marginal income tax rate to at least 50%.

For the economy:

Set up DARPA-like agencies for public domain research on alternative energies and new technologies. Liberalize patent law. Enact free public higher education for professional degrees and vocational training. Expand rail and fiber internet infrastructure. Shift to nuclear reactors for base load power instead of coal/gas.

For the government:

Enact proportional representation, run-off voting and ban lobbying/bribery to break up the corrupt political duopoly that got us here.

[Anonymous No.3517169]

>>3517154

Fuck you hippy. Go do art somewhere else. My society wouldnt force you to be a slave to the machine. You would want to do it if you have any ambition in life at all whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.3517178]

>>3517154

>implying we aren't slaves to a political bureaucratic machine already

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3517181]

>>3517142

Whats broken is that the economy started producing less than it had before. Which meant people are getting laid off, and no one has the money to grow.

The economy fixes itself, because people naturally engage in activity which produces value, which gives people money and opportunities to work and produce value.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517191]

>>3517165
I think I love you.

>Sharply reduce defense spending. End wars in Iraq/Afghanistan. Shut down military bases in foreign countries. Raise top marginal income tax rate to at least 50%.
This works well if we don't need oil, which gets us to:

>Set up DARPA-like agencies for public domain research on alternative energies and new technologies.
One acronym: LFTR, the molten salt reactor.

>Liberalize patent law.
Thank god. God I hate current software patent law. The rest of it needs fixing too. Fix copyright while we're at it.

>Enact free public higher education for professional degrees and vocational training. Expand rail and fiber internet infrastructure. Shift to nuclear reactors for base load power instead of coal/gas.
Yes! LFTR! Or I suppose light water reactors in the interim.

>Enact proportional representation, run-off voting and ban lobbying/bribery to break up the corrupt political duopoly that got us here.
BIG MOTHERFUCKING YES! Someone's been reading George Washington's farewell address.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517200]

>>3517191
>ban lobbying
Ok, big motherfucking yes on everything but that. I don't think I'm for that. Restrictions on free speech are not a good idea IMHO.

[Anonymous No.3517201]

mfw canada has a better credit rating than the united states.

[Anonymous No.3517202]

>>3517088
> simple. kill all major criminal's, the very stupid(bottom 5%, which is IQ below 75), and batshit insane people. This will create jobs, and cut cost's of keeping these human garbage alive, and eliminate the the costs of crime they cause(less money needed for police, fire fighters, alot less on medical, arson and reckless driving will go down alot, ect.)

the actual damage done to the economy by crime, retards, and the insane is like a drop in the bucket compared disastrous health care policies and financially unjustifiable military engagements the world over.

it's not people with downs syndrome who hurt the nation. It's usually defense contractors with multi-million dollar sway of politicians and armies of lobbyists.

[Anonymous No.3517204]

Imprison Tea Partiers in the FEMA deathcamps
Abolish NAFTA
Cut defense spending to a fraction of its current value
Raise taxes on the wealthiest 1% to a 90% highest marginal rate after 5 million dollars a year.
Enact public works projects to rebuild the nations crumbling infrastructure

[Anonymous No.3517214]

>>3517202

You guys should really stop worrying about military spending. Its a problem, yes, but THAT is a drop in the bucket next to entitlements.

[Anonymous No.3517215]

>>3517204

I raged

[Anonymous No.3517218]

>>3517204

>Communist detected

Never change, /sci/

[Anonymous No.3517220]

>>3517214

But thats not what MSNBC says!!!

[Anonymous No.3517225]

I say abolish entitlements.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3517230]

We should stop society security. It wont fix debt at all, but we should still do it.

We should almost entirely reduce our defence spending (more like offence spending!!!!)

Get rid of medicare. Replace it with a healthcare system of some variety.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517233]

>>3517214
Yeah. It's one of those "don't touch it" things. Social Security itself is an especially bad idea. It was founded on the idea that most people would be dead before they could collect. Same with 401ks. It's not practical in our current economy to work for 30 years, then retire for life.

I strongly dislike such open ended reimbursement schemes, especially by the government. It's one of the reasons for the lack of competitiveness of the US car companies - all those damn pensions.

That's why I /might/ be in favor of some sort of legislation in my ideal world that restricts and/or bans contracts that do open ended reimbursement schemes like pensions for the stereotypical worker.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3517245]

>>3517214

What? Its a drop in the bucket? Its 25% of our budget, and is larger than the entire world's military spending combined!

[Anonymous No.3517253]

>>3517245

>citation needed

[Anonymous No.3517259]

>>3517245
This says 20%, but I agree that it should be cut. (not the guy you were replying to)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3517267]

>>3517259

Thank you.

[Anonymous No.3517274]

>>3517245

Cut military sure, but how could you not cut entitlements such as social sec and medicare. entitlements cost twice as much as defense, end of story.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3517276]

As for the "larger than the whole world combined thing"

I was wrong, the US only takes up 48% of the world's military spending

http://www.visualeconomics.com/military-spending-worldwide/

[Anonymous No.3517284]

>>3517274
Being a larger piece of the pie doesn't mean they are the best things to cut. It makes them a good target sure, but the idea is to cut money that matters the least. Is that the case here?

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3517285]

>>3517274

I do believe we should cut social security and medicare. I said so earlier.

Social security isnt going to solve the debt problem though, because it brings in its own revenue. Part of the problem is we borrow from the social security fund. But if you get rid of social security, you also get rid of the taxes that were funding it.

[Anonymous No.3517287]

Kill Republicans.. Problem solved

[Anonymous No.3517299]

>>3517276
Damn close to outspending the rest of the world.

Still, there are countries that have a far higher percentage of their budget going to the military - the US is just filthy rich.

[Anonymous No.3517303]

>>3517285

I also love it when people think the national debt is the problem. The problem is jobs. Fix that and everything gets better from there. Politicians just have their heads shoved up their ass.

[Anonymous No.3517313]

>>3517299

>the US is just filthily rich

I lol'd

No. We are in debt. $14 trillion worth.

[Anonymous No.3517316]

>>3517313
I meant budget, not net worth. But point taken.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3517317]

>>3517303

Im always critical of people talking about jobs like its the end all of a good economy. Digging a hole can be a job. Anything can be a "job." It doesnt imply its a job doing anything worth while.

[Anonymous No.3517328]

>>3517317
Thank you sir

a job is only valuable if it serves utility to some consumer.

[Anonymous No.3517331]

Eliminate the parasite of private companies, all the people who just want to get rich from the resources.
Use the resources to satisfy everyone the best we can. If we don't have enough resources, locate resources in scientific research so we can have enough resources.

[Anonymous No.3517336]

>>3517317

lrn2context

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3517344]

>>3517336

Some people really dont get that though. Like FDR for example. The word "job" cant imply "good."

[Anonymous No.3517346]

1. Legalize drugs, tax and regulate.

2. Reform entitlement programs.

3. Close tax loopholes, and increase taxes.

4. Fuck Bush tax cuts

5. Cut defense/military spending.

How about we get rid of medicare and medicaid... and have universal health care instead of having a shit health care system?

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517347]

>>3517331
So, a centrally planned economy? Confirmed for retard.

[Anonymous No.3517355]

>>3517347
Nice who you are trained to respond like that to the most logical solution to a socioeconomic model, the media did well, you should study more.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3517358]

Here is my obligatory healthcare infographic I made maybe 3 weeks ago.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517360]

>>3517355
No. I merely took econ 101, read Adam Smith's Wealth Of Nations, can look at history, and am not a retard.

[Anonymous No.3517361]

>>3517355
how*, obviously.

[Anonymous No.3517362]

>>3517355

Maybe you should read a bit more as well. Centrally planned economies had demonstrably failed.

[Anonymous No.3517375]

Tax the rich at 100% and raise the minimum wage to 50 dollars. Nothing can go wrong.

[Anonymous No.3517378]

>>3517360
Exactly why you can't see the solution.

>>3517362
I'm aware of attempts of centrally planned economies like the great leap forward and or the five year plans of the USSR. Still, I do not think it provides enough evidence to say that the concept of centrally planned economies do not work.
In fact, I see much more examples of the current model of socioeconomics failing comparing to central planning.

[Anonymous No.3517389]

>>3517378
>Comparing absolute numbers

Call the police, I think i've been trolled

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517390]

>>3517378
It's a simple argument.

Freerider problem + centrally planned economy -> no incentive to work -> shitty production -> failure of centrally planned economy.

Incentives to work better is required for a functional economy. This more or less means a variant of capitalism.

[Anonymous No.3517395]

OP: fixing the economy is easy.

1. maintain current spending levels, and the deficit will be paid off in ten years.

there are some other things we can fix, but that would have fixed it... but instead they raised the debt ceiling. a bit like raising the legal limit for BAC in order to reduce DUIs.

[Anonymous No.3517396]

And why you think the profit motivation is more effective than other?
An economy focused on human well-beign would function exponentally better than this one, scientifically speaking.

[Anonymous No.3517398]

>>3517396
to you
>>3517390

[Anonymous No.3517411]

>>3517398
not sure if i understand. i was saying if current spending levels are maintained, it will actually correct over time because spending hasn't been keeping pace with inflation.

check out: http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-a-budget/174717-when-a-cut-is-not-a-cut

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3517412]

- Liquid fluoride thorium power stations to supply 80% of US power by 2022, waste heat used to manufacture fuels such as methanol and dimethyl ether.

- Pass a bill that requires ALL cars sold in United States to be flex fueled by 2019. This is a +$100 difference in price, and only requires corrosion resistant materials in the fuel lines and some software modification to the fuel injector. Not only does this stop the US dependance on foreign oil, but the entire world, for the other auto makers won't walk away from the US market. I just saved you 800 billion in oil importation a year.

To be continued...

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3517413]

>>3517412
- Lower top tax rate to 37%, but SHUT ALL LOOPHOLES IN TAX SYSTEM. 'DAMN YOU INURDAES YOU LOWERED TAXES BUT FOILED OUR WAY OF WEASELING OUT OF PAYING THE PROPER AMOUNT OF TAX' just won't fly.

- Pull troops out of all places they're not needed, shut down massive amounts of military bases and sell them cheap to their constituent countries. Cut military spending by 60%, however military strength will not take that much of a blow because automated government-owned factories for weapons/army supplies and so forth will lower the prices required to purchase such equipment drastically.

- Massive revamping of education. Khan Academy WILL be worked into it somehow. I want to listen to Conrad Wolfram, Sugata Mitra and Sir Ken Robinson very closely on how they would shape America's education system

- Mars Direct man-to-Mars mission. 'But Inurdaes why you spend money???' Well you see, optimism. Really. What the fuck do you think drives the new generation to be hyped about science, in such a time when the US is desperate for more scientists? And plus, it can be done within NASA's existing budget.

- Increase funding for science outside of DARPA by 50%.

- Single-payer healthcare. The fact remains that all the other industrialized countries pay HALF of what the US does. We need to focus on getting as much disposable income in the wallets of average Americans.

- Offer incentives for companies to leave their manufacturing plants inside the United States. Perhaps some form of guilt tripping for the corporations that completely outsourced. Bad publicity = bad business.

Anything I missed?

[Anonymous No.3517419]

>>3517411
Eliminating all private companies and banks would save billions on bail-outs.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517425]

>>3517412
>- Liquid fluoride thorium power stations to supply 80% of US power by 2022, waste heat used to manufacture fuels such as methanol and dimethyl ether.

I'm pretty well convinced that LFTRs are possible enough that we need to make that priority number 1, and that there's a good chance it'll work.

Do you have any sources for the effectiveness of manufacturing dimethyl ether? Specifically some reasonable quotes as to the expected end market price that I would see at the pump as compared to traditional gasoline.

[Anonymous No.3517427]

>>3517087
>>3517087
Check out who controls congress.

[Anonymous No.3517429]

>>3517412
i couldn't agree more, we have to produce our own energy, rather than sending it to some arabs in the desert who will just use it to build IEDs to use on us in 20 yrs

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3517430]

>>3517425
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much on Google about it.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517433]

>>3517427
Sorry, your point is?

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3517436]

>>3517429
Robert Zubrin did a talk on this, where he showed that not only are we funding the other side in the war on terror, we're now funding them more than we spend on the Department of Defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0O2YZwSkgM&feature=channel_video_title

I've noticed I've started grouping myself in with Americans...

[Anonymous No.3517438]

check out http://www.naturalmoney.org/example.html
for the test of freigeld in worgl, austria, a town that boomed during the great depression when they installed a decaying currency.

[Anonymous No.3517442]

>>3517425
why are you so sold on LFTR? there are several design challenges still being worked out as well as disadvantages to other systems

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3517444]

>>3517442
Name them.

[Anonymous No.3517452]

1 vote one dollar for campaigning, given to the party they belong to, to be paid for by a tax that you can be fully reinbursed for on your return if you do not wish to participate and really want those few dollars.

Equal time and access for all parties that make a federal ballot by any media outlet that allows anybody to run adds for free.
Networks would still get around this by simply having politicians as guests on their shows more frequently. But as ratings wars intensified, it is likely that those that favoured turning screws rather then lobbing softballs would gain more attention in the long run.

No more donations, at all. You can still lobby but you'd better do it with votes or handjobs.

Every politician is subject to audit for every year of service.
Absolutely no gifts. You gift a politician, you and them go to jail.

This would require reclassifying what is considered to be freedom of speech to preclude money of course.

It wouldnt solve everything overnight but it would transform the political climate and eventually viable alternative parties would spring up and gain footholds.

And the craziest idea: Motherfucking pop quizzes on any bill a politician votes on.

They are PAID to read that shit, its about time they started.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517456]

>>3517442
>why are you so sold on LFTR? there are several design challenges still being worked out as well as disadvantages to other systems
Because the remaining challenges seem inconsequentially easy as compared to the benefits:
- electricity as cheap as coal
- not polluting in any significant meaningful sense
- shittons of fuel lying around
- safer
- highly proliferation resistant

What isn't there to love?

>as well as disadvantages to other systems
I presume you mean that LFTRs on paper have disadvantages as compared to other systems. I'm listening. What would those be?

[Anonymous No.3517472]

>>3517433
My point is you're wrong.

[Anonymous No.3517473]

we no longer produce

capitalist cockrider tells you to get a job while he outsources it

capitalist cockblower tells you to find a job in the service industry with low wages and no means to collectively bargain

mfw capitalism eats itself

[Anonymous No.3517475]

>>3517045
>fix the economy
Increase revenue without fucking the bottom 75% of earners.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517477]

>>3517472
What facts are you teasing from the graph? I was just wondering if you could describe your reading of it.

[Anonymous No.3517482]

>>3517473
We no longer produce because our dollar is artificially over valued. The answer is not to print money to reduce its value that will just cause a boom and bust cycle. We would have to abolish the fed and let interest rates be determined by the market.

[Anonymous No.3517483]

>>3517045

Ok.

1: Close tax loop holes for both corporations and the upper 1% of all earners.
2: Reduce defense spending by at least 15% but no more then 30%.
3: Start MASSIVE public work projects investing in anything from better internet to better road, schools, ect...*
4: increase tax rate for upper 5% of population. Increase capital gains tax by 15% for short term, 5% for long term investments, and add a new category for very long term investments (5+ years) at 15% (current long term yield).**
5: Completely revamp age based social security. Including reduce pay out, and force some level of external economic involvement (Save for disability) to claim, say at least half time employment (20h per week).****
6: Remove religious non profit status.***

Of course this is just an overview. The actual details would need to be sorted out. Still this WOULD work if put into practice, and if not we are DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!

That being said, I approve of Econ topics in Sci. Sure it's a softer science, but it still make some level of sense.

* This is essential as it will provide numerous jobs and a massive increase in economic stability which is sorely needed. It will cost some funds, but the increase revenue generated will more then pay for it self in 2-5 years, and prevent us sliding into a depression.

** This will encourage continued investing in the market, while driving funds from "predatory" investors into longer term stable growth.

*** Never going to happen but offers tremendous revenue potential. Plus it's nice to dream.

**** This is probably the biggest issue facing us in the near and long term future. There's just not enough young/working populous to support an aging America. Of course this wont happen ether, but it NEEDS to be done.

[Anonymous No.3517491]

>>3517475
that's like saying "make more steaks without killing more cows"
we, the workers, are livestock. our feed (wages) is a business expense, a liability. that's what the fat cats think of you as when they go over their books. that's what they think of your homes, your families... expenses, just like an electric bill.

[Anonymous No.3517503]

>>3517483
>6: Remove religious non profit status.***
oh, sweet jesus i wish this could happen

[Anonymous No.3517512]

This is not surprising at all. We were fucking warned in the 70's that the increasing financialization of our economy along with the incessant shipping of production abroad would eventually be our downfall.

[Anonymous No.3517514]

>>3517427
>MWF LBJ and Nixon decreased the debt while fighting in Vietnam and putting men on the moon.

[Anonymous No.3517515]

Get rid of medicare.

all it has done is raise the prices of medicine since its inception.

Get rid of the FDA and AMA monopoly on healthcare.

Get rid of welfare all it has done is detroy the black family.

Cut Defense Spending

Ween off all subsidies

Get rid of tax credits for corporations and then lower the corporate tax rate.

let people opt out of social security

[Anonymous No.3517520]

>>3517491

Thats right you faggot. They dont exist to take care of you and hold your hand. The workers have no use anymore. We are getting better at automation and soon you and your family will starve to death. Deal. With. It.

[Anonymous No.3517524]

I think everyone read "how do we reduce the deficit", not "how do we fix the economy"

[Anonymous No.3517530]

>>3517477
That spending increases during a democrat controlled congress.

[Anonymous No.3517534]

>>3517491
compromise obviously, but the current trend is to cut government spending that benefits the working-class while also cutting taxes on the corporations and the mega-wealthy.

also the tax holiday that is being pushed at the moment is pants on head retarded

[Anonymous No.3517540]

>>3517503
Most American adults are actually toddlers and would shit themselves if this glorious event took place, also I think millionaires still collect social security checks, there is another cut.

[Anonymous No.3517542]

>>3517491
and you see the fat cat as a tit to suckle from. Face it you just want to steal from the rich and give to yourself while claiming the rich are greedy.

[Anonymous No.3517543]

ITT:


people who have not realized that American success in the 20th century is due to 1 single political policy:

spend lots of money on defense.
wtf do you think we are spending the money on?

JOBS you fucking idiots.


we pay AMERICANS to build/research weapons and devices and services.


they spend the money in the US on businesses, and also pay taxes.

those businesses pay taxes

those businesses grow and pay even more in taxes.
Defense spending is a form of reinvestment in the economy.


if you are this stupid you need to quit life forever and just kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.3517545]

>>3517512
and a sitting president warned us about the military industrial complex. nobody listened then either.

[Anonymous No.3517546]

>>3517515

>Ideal solution

mfw liberals dont understand how getting rid of the FDA and AMA would be very good for our healthcare system.

[Anonymous No.3517554]

>>3517346
>and have universal health care instead of having a shit health care system?

that would just make healthcare more expensive and worse or just worse if you start price setting.

[Anonymous No.3517556]

>>3517520
actually jobs do exist to take care of me and my family.

[Anonymous No.3517559]

>>3517358
>>3517358
Why is the healthcare system working in any other (especially European) country then?

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517560]

>>3517515
I might be ok with everything but "FDA". I want the FDA to remain to ensure that certain minimum health standards are met. I don't want "The Jungle" again.

[Anonymous No.3517561]

>>3517515

[Anonymous No.3517573]

>>3517543

You dont know anything about shit. American success has come from our economic freedoms and superior education and the fact that we kicked the rest of the worlds ass in WWII so we had a manufacturing monopoly for a while.

[Anonymous No.3517575]

>>3517346

i'm poor and on medicaid. :( it helps me a lot.

fuck you.

[Anonymous No.3517578]

>>3517543
Yeah, totes. It would have anything to do with having no competition for anything for most of last century.

[Anonymous No.3517581]

>>3517543
pssh as if defense spending finds it's way back into the economy. it gets dropped on baghdad. the def. contractors aren't hiring like mad... so it seems like defense is a poor investment if your goal is an employed, productive workforce.

[Anonymous No.3517589]

Why don't we all work for the military? Then we could have full employment!

[Anonymous No.3517592]

>>3517076
Great, you just put poured thousands of workers into the economy by sending all of those soldiers home, then reduced the already weak demand by cutting government spending, then increased inflation to the point that all of those unemployed soldiers, government workers, and low-wage workers can't afford anything. You just single-handedly destroyed the economy in three steps. How do you feel about yourself?

[Anonymous No.3517594]

>>3517573

>economic freedom
>superior education

None of these describe America

[Anonymous No.3517596]

>>3517594

They actually do fairly well

[Anonymous No.3517597]

>>3517589

Why dont we all go out and dig trenches for the common good comrade!

[Anonymous No.3517605]

>>3517594
Pic related to your memory.

[Anonymous No.3517608]

most of the research that went into that glorious weaponry being wasted overseas was publicly funded to begin with, the plebs get to pay for it twice

[Anonymous No.3517612]

>>3517594

We are talking about throughout the 20th century

and yes we do have superior education, even now. Our colleges are the envy of the world. We just do well on standarized tests because of all the nigers and wetbacks ruining our average.

[Anonymous No.3517613]

>>3517045
the only fix to the economy is to make consumers smarter.

[Anonymous No.3517621]

>>3517613
Too long term. Wee need some more band-aids.

[Anonymous No.3517624]

>>3517613

Eugenics!

It always comes down to eugenics. When will people stop their bullshit "hurr derr hitler wanted to do it so its evil" mentality and see the infinite possibilities of eugenics.

[Anonymous No.3517643]

>>3517581
>>3517581
>>3517581
>>3517581
>>3517581
>>3517581
>>3517581
>>3517581
>>3517578
>>3517578
>>3517578
>>3517578
>>3517573
>>3517573
>>3517573
>>3517573


BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

1) regardless of the specific type of cost (health care, social security, defense, etc), most spending is spent on SALARIES for people, not on "things" like big piles of weapons (obviously those costs are also spent on salaries, but it is diluted).

2) Most of the war budget (hint: war spending =/= defense spending) is spent on buying FOOD and oil.

literally all of it is bought in the united states. Especially the food. 100% of the food eaten by US troops comes from the US. no. not 99% of it. 100% of it. True. Some of that food has been imported to the US from other countries.

but the fact is that US tariffs and subsidies STILL keep the cost of imported food too high to be economically viable, even for the military. 50% of the vegetables and fruit consumed by the military come from California alone.

3) The defense budget spent on infrastructure in foreign countries is miniscule in comparison to the whole.

spent a billion dollars building shit in Iraq? well we spent 500+ billion domestically.

just because it "sounds like a lot" when you say that Haliburton (or whatever they have renamed themselves as) is funded to the tune of a billion...

it is pennies... less than 1%, in comparison to the whole, which is almost universally spent in the US.

[Anonymous No.3517644]

k, fix the economy. in addition to my post about freezing new spending for ten years, take the following seven steps:

1. audit and abolish the fed.
2. remove federal income tax and replace it with a fair tax, based on consumption. then the hookers, druggies, and welfare people get taxed, and the suepr rich can't dodge taxes. in 2009, out of 235k people who made more than a million that year, 1400 didn't pay a penny in taxes. that's fucked up.
3. lower the corporate tax rate, so businesses come back.
4. develop a domestic energy source. starting with wind and solar would be a great way to begin.
5. repeal obamacare and instead regulate the malpractice insurance industry, they gouge the doctors and keep prices high.
6. adopt a "loser pays" lawsuit system like canada has. no more bullshit lawsuits.
7. pass the congressional reform act of 2011. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/04/1003273/-Congressional-Reform-Act-of-2011?via=sidebar

those seven steps will straighten a shitload of our problems out.

[Anonymous No.3517651]

>>3517560
You don't need the FDA to do that. Private companies have plenty of incentive to make their medication safe and for it to work properly. Fact is the FDA prevents drugs from coming out to market for ten years while 1000s of people die from diseases those drugs can treat.

[Anonymous No.3517652]

>see post
>leave
>see "133 posts and 25 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view"

/sci/. still the easiest board to troll on 4chan

[Anonymous No.3517657]

>>3517594
>>3517594


70 of the top 100 research universities in the world are located in the US.

#1 is berkeley (#2 is Oxford)

7 of the top 10 are in the US


inb4 the US trains/educated foreigners who simply move back to their home country after being subsidized by special exchange programs.

the truth is that exchange students constitute less than 1% of the total student body, including graduate students.

its one of the reasons why exchange students often appear to be wayyyy smarter:

there are only a limited number of slots available to exchange students

consequently the competition to get those slots is wayyyy higher than it is for the rest of the domestic students

consequently only the cream of the crop foreign applicants get a slot.

[Anonymous No.3517658]

>>3517643
It doesn't matter, you can hire people do do nothing (welfare) but it doesn't help the economy because they produce nothing. Our economy rides on defunct Keynesian policies of endless stimulus.

[Anonymous No.3517665]

>>3517560

http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/

Least corrupt institution in america. It inspects every electrical appliance that you have in your house for safety. There is no regulation enforcing anything. It is a true free market solution. Something similar would most likely develope in the absence of the FDA

[Anonymous No.3517667]

The amount of herping and derping in this thread is nothing short of staggering.

[Anonymous No.3517668]

>>3517534
>cut government spending that benefits the working-class

They don't benefit the working class, taking peoples money and then spending it form them does not benefit them. Government programs just tend to raise the prices of everything we would be a lot better off without government spending.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517669]

>>3517651
>Private companies have plenty of incentive to make their medication safe and for it to work properly. Fact is the FDA prevents drugs from coming out to market for ten years while 1000s of people die from diseases those drugs can treat.
Fact is "The Jungle" happened, and thus your claims are demonstrably wrong.

I do agree that the FDA ought to just regulate supermarkets and common consumers, not those who sign a waiver saying "Yes I know the drug is experimental, give it to me". That part of the FDA needs abolishing.

Of course, that only works if we disallow drug companies from incentivizing doctors to sell their drugs, which I'm all for anyway.

[Anonymous No.3517670]

>>3517657

>attributing location to intelligence of population


uhhhhhhhhhh.....full retard. Go visit Berkeley. Mostly Asian and Indian.

[Anonymous No.3517671]

>>3517658
>increasing consumer spending and thus production and profits doesn't do anything
>let's cut the corp. tax rate so they make more profits, that'll totally work

laughingsluts.jpg

[Anonymous No.3517678]

>>3517643
i think only #1 had to do with my post. yes, lots gets spent on salaries, but that doesn't help the economy out much unless the company is located in an isolated area, where everyone has money. otherwise it gets diluted in the crappy local economy. besides, american engineers have jobs- but there aren't many jobs for people with only a hs diploma anymore. automation killed the middle class.

[Anonymous No.3517687]

>>3517670
haha i'm pretty sure you have to be asian to get into the UC system at this point.

[Anonymous No.3517693]

>>3517668

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517694]

>>3517651
>>3517669
In short, you are a laissez-faire, and I am not. One of the inadequacies of unregulated markets which I recognize is that freely available information is not free to acquire. I want the FDA there only to offset that fact of reality, more or less.

[Anonymous No.3517696]

>>3517643
the US spends 20% of its federal budget on defense.

this is an enormous amount of money.

Lobbys for oil, weapons contractors, and the influence of the jewish community which at the very least feels it must passively provide support to israel combine to make it very difficult to bring defense spending lower.

the war in iraq does not make me safer. the war in afghanistan does not make me safer. the war in lybia does not make me safer. these things are the source of angry refugees and cultural tension.

The US military can successfully defend the homeland with a fraction of its current spending.

We should not be militarily involved in the middle east in the least bit.

This would at least be a huge start in cutting our immense deficit.

[Anonymous No.3517697]

>>3517671

Corporate taxes go directly to the consumer (middle class). The corporations that are affected are all affected equally so they all raise prices evenly.

Corporate tax = Middle class tax + Hamstring on international competitveness of american industry
Dumbass.

[Anonymous No.3517698]

Liberalism is the only way this country will ever progress.

[Anonymous No.3517704]

>>3517667
Nobody cares SHUT THE FUCK UP!

[Anonymous No.3517708]

>>3517696

govt spends twice as much on entitlements.

[Anonymous No.3517712]

>>3517698

to poverty

[Anonymous No.3517713]

>>3517696
i'm glad you brought up israel. arming israel is possibly the greatest failure in foreign policy in human history. it pisses off the people who fuel our cars. that relationship doesn't do shit for us. the israelis are as violent as all their neighbors, and like those neighbors, they're chomping at the bit for a major war in the middle east. i'm sick of zionist foreign policy.

[Anonymous No.3517714]

>>3517669
>>3517669
http://www.mackinac.org/4084

Free markets also have an incentive to provide you clean food, once again you don't need the FDA.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517721]

>>3517714
And once again the factual events surrounding "The Jungle" demonstrably prove that you are wrong.

[Anonymous No.3517724]

>>3517697
are you implying that CEOs wouldn't contribute a relatively larger share of their income to the economy if taxes were raised on them?

I think people overestimate just how much of the additional costs caused by corporate taxes are transferred to the consumer.

It stands to reason that even if a large amount of it is, that the heads of corporations contributing a relatively larger percentage of their income to the economy would be to the benefit of the middle class.

[Anonymous No.3517727]

>>3517708
How to fallacy?

[Anonymous No.3517728]

>>3517721

One 100 year old data point.

[Anonymous No.3517732]

>>3517671
Giving people money to throw away is a great way to create a fake economy, people should spend money they make not money that is given to them by the government because that money is temporary and any gains in the economy will die when that stimulus is removed. You're much better off letting people spend their own money as this will actually create sustainable growth.

[Anonymous No.3517733]

>>3517714
>>3517721

i think it can be said that some degree of regulation is needed, so that the people aren't totally at the mercy of private industries, while still allowing the industries to operate without excessive restrictions.

[Anonymous No.3517735]

>>3517721

"The Jungle" Demonstrates the incentive for investigative journalism. These problems could have been solved without government. They were brought to our attention without government and there is no doubt that the market would not have allowed the production of unclean food for much longer.

[Anonymous No.3517736]

>>3517728
which is more than wishful thinking on the magic of the free market

go back to your teabagger rally

[Anonymous No.3517737]

we should elect on paul president, get rid of the evil treasury and use teeth/rocks/goats to barter for other peoples goods

[Anonymous No.3517738]

>>3517721
>people demand organic food
>market gives organic food

Free market can't possibly deliver.

[Anonymous No.3517744]

>>3517736

i just pointed out the flaw in his logic. Why are you asserting im part of the teaparty?

[Anonymous No.3517752]

>>3517733
The private industries are at the mercy of the consumers, companies can't get rich if they don't meet consumer demands.

[Anonymous No.3517754]

>>3517713
i'm not saying we should be an enemy of israel or anyone.

i'm saying what america needs right now is dropping everything its doing militarily a world over and investing all that money in the homeland or in bringing down the deficit.

Arab nations may view us with suspicion but i don't want the opposite to become true either.

The fact is, we don't have the luxury to afford that sort of interventionism at this moment. As much as it might be moral to save lybians or whatever, we don't have that money.
it doesn't exist for us to save people with, and we need to stop maintaining large armies half a world over, at least for now.

[Anonymous No.3517759]

>>3517732
had they given the american taxpayers an equal slice of the bailout money, everyone would have paid their mortgage payments, and spent the rest at the mall. consumer spending would have fixed the job situation by making it a better growth environment for businesses.

[Anonymous No.3517761]

>>3517737
Ron Paul
- doesn't think evolution is valid
- libertarian

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517762]

>>3517735
>These problems could have been solved without government.
Correct. But they were not.

>They were brought to our attention without government and there is no doubt that the market would not have allowed the production of unclean food for much longer.
Yes, but for decades at least, there was unclean food in production. Without the FDA, it would be easy to have cyclic relapses where the public forgets, they go unclean, until some investigation journalism uncovers it, they clean up, and the cycle repeats.

I'd rather just have safe food.

[Anonymous No.3517766]

>>3517045
raises taxes on rich
raises taxes on corporations
end tax loop holes
end subsidies to companies making large profits
end tariffs hurting poor exporters

cut military spending in half
stop invading other countries

more funding to science, engineering
more funding to education
more funding to health care

higher capital requirements on banks
regulate derivatives markets

elect actual democrats and progressives

cap on campaign funding, end political lobbying / bribery

[Anonymous No.3517767]

>>3517752
In ideal situations. But monopolies, asymmetric information, the gullibility of humans through marketing, externalized costs... all of these separate the ability to make profits from choosing the actions that optimize societal wellbeing.

They have to be dealt with.

[Anonymous No.3517776]

>>3517733
some people wouldn't eat McDonalds because they think its just as disgusting but consumers still demand it.

Some people demand cigarettes even though they are patently unsafe. Should they be banned?

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517780]

>>3517738
>Free market can't possibly deliver.
I never claimed that. Straw man. To use your terms, I claimed "sometimes it doesn't deliver."

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517787]

>>3517776
>Should they be banned?
No, but it should be public undisputed knowledge that these things are bad for you in X way.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517800]

>>3517767
I like that list, but do not forget what I think is the heart of the matter - acquiring freely available information is not free.

It costs a company one or two employees to put out bullshit, and it costs every single person precious hours of their life (or more!) in an attempt to try to ascertain exactly what the truth is. Obtaining freely available information is not free.

[Anonymous No.3517808]

>>3517766
>more funding to education
>more funding to health care
will just sky rocket education and medical costs

>regulate derivatives markets
not what caused the housing collapse

>elect actual democrats and progressives
will prevent nuclear power plants from being built and will continue their misguided egalitarian social experiments.

>cap on campaign funding, end political lobbying / bribery

won't work, there will still be special interests that will promise votes to gratify a minority of people.

[Anonymous No.3517816]

>>3517787
>No, but it should be public undisputed knowledge that these things are bad for you in X way.

and you believe that somehow free markets prevent freedom of speech?

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517822]

>>3517816
And you think that freedom of speech somehow makes acquiring information free?

[Anonymous No.3517825]

>>3517800
If they can't afford information then they probably can't afford jungle food.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517837]

>>3517825
I'm beginning to think I'm arguing with an idiot who doesn't know what "The Jungle" is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle

It seems that I'm arguing with at least two people, as the other one said "investigative journalism". Thus, you are the retarded one.

[Anonymous No.3517861]

>>3517762
>>3517762
>Without the FDA, it would be easy to have cyclic relapses where the public forgets, they go unclean

just like they would abandon safety standards for cars? Your ideas are as unfounded.

[Anonymous No.3517864]

>>3517861
Not that guy, but they might cheat if they think no one is looking, imposing testing, collecting statistics...

[Anonymous No.3517873]

>>3517864
and then a bunch of people die and no one buys their food or car.

[Anonymous No.3517874]

>>3517808
>will just sky rocket education and medical costs

their costs are already too high for their shitty performance. USA is like 30th in math and science. It's a retard den. Plus their healthcare is absolute shit, unless you're rich. Which most of the country isn't, at all.

>not what caused the housing collapse
It aggravated the "systemic risk" factor which lead to the "too big to fail" argument.

It also added to the leverage problem, and allowed for fancy manipulation of yield levels in order to hide risk levels. etc. etc.

>will prevent nuclear power plants from being built and will continue their misguided egalitarian social experiments.

they dont need social experiments we know what works already, and trickle down economics doesn't work: spending all tax revenue on the stupid military complex and subsidies to oil corporations isn't helping the majority.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517876]

>>3517861
Cars less-so. It has to do with acquiring freely available information is not free. You can afford to spend hours researching car safety standards, but it is unreasonable to spend hours each month keeping up to date on your meat company to see if they're up to code.

[Anonymous No.3517877]

>>3517822
No one pays you to divulge information and yet you freely give it to me.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517879]

>>3517873
And again past events, such as "The Jungle" and associated events, prove that you are wrong.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517881]

>>3517877
And how much time have you spent to get this information? Hours now? Do you have several hours per month for the research time per article to ensure that every single article of food for every single article of food you buy is safe?

[Anonymous No.3517888]

stick to trolling yourselves with physics jokes because /sci/ is literally too uninformed to talk about economics and finance.

[Anonymous No.3517891]

>>3517874
>their costs are already too high for their shitty performance. USA is like 30th in math and science. It's a retard den. Plus their healthcare is absolute shit, unless you're rich. Which most of the country isn't, at all.

They are high precisely because the government pays for them.

>they dont need social experiments we know what works already, and trickle down economics doesn't work: spending all tax revenue on the stupid military complex and subsidies to oil corporations isn't helping the majority.

neither does welfare, affirmative action, progressive taxes, medicare, or social security.

>spending all tax revenue on the stupid

most of it is spent on entitlements

on the state level most of it is spent on education

[Anonymous No.3517896]

I love this place.

[Anonymous No.3517902]

>>3517881
>Do you have several hours per month for the research time per article to ensure that every single article of food for every single article of food you buy is safe?

does the government? does the government inspect every piece of food?

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517910]

>>3517902
Yes, because the cost is amortized over everyone. Instead of every citizen spending hours per month checking up on food companies, only a very small number of citizens check up on food companies. Each citizen supports this with taxes, which is a far less price than doing it himself. This should be simple to understand.

[Anonymous No.3517911]

how would drug testing work without the FDA? you get some transient side-effects that are hard to pin-point, so you have to hire a team of scientists to test your medication?

$500,000 dollars gone and 2 years later, they figure out that yes your medication is giving you stomach pain and headaches...now what?

You need to hire some lawyers to sue the company?

Rofl, yes this seems efficient, affordable and practical. Everyone could do this and the legal system would work fine and be able to handle 20million extra law suits a year.


Or what you get private FDA's? ROFL.
Pfizer Testing. Sure we are a subsidiary, but we are objective. Trust us.

[Anonymous No.3517915]

>>3517879
The jungle proves what again?

Did people die form the food they ate back then?

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517921]

>>3517915
Maybe? Who knows. A couple odd food poisoning deaths. It's impossible to know now how many food poisoning deaths were the direct result of the lack of good sanity conditions in the meat packing places.

[Anonymous No.3517927]

>>3517910
The answer is no they don't inspect every piece of food and those food companies can do all sorts of shit to it when the government isn't watch, but they don't as far as we know. Has buying this untested food affected you in anyway? probably not.

[Anonymous No.3517939]

>>3517927
>implying there's not a huge recall on tainted ground turkey right now
>implying companies don't issue recall notices solely due to the threat of govt. action

[Anonymous No.3517943]

>>3517911
Have you ever heard of quality control or industry standards. Why wouldn't they test, if their drugs harm people they lose consumer trust and no one buys their shit.

[Anonymous No.3517947]

>>3517943
Consumers are not so great at this, but I agree that there is a feedback.

[Anonymous No.3517949]

>>3517939
>implying companies don't issue recall notices solely due to the threat of govt. action

I am implying that because that is exactly what would happen.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517952]

>>3517943
>Have you ever heard of quality control or industry standards. Why wouldn't they test, if their drugs harm people they lose consumer trust and no one buys their shit.
Only if it's provable that the drug was the cause. And the common citizen has neither the expertise nor time nor money to try to research such an idea.

Thus, private FDAs? Then we suffer from freerider problem. This is a textbook case for government regulation.

[Anonymous No.3517953]

>>3517947
I disagree have you ever tried to sell someone something? consumers are picky fucks.

[Anonymous No.3517960]

>>3517052
Wow, Im surprised someone actually suggested this. I did alot of research for a paper back at the uni on this very subject.... It's outstanding to see what was given up just becuase we had more acessable uranium at hand and we needed bombs right away.
I wonder what the world would be like with energy like that...Cleaner, nearly inextinguishable, not to mention cheap, little to no fear of meltdowns... It's like a fucking utopia.

[Anonymous No.3517962]

>>3517045
>fix the economy.
Execute every republican and every corporate democrat. Send Obama back to Kenya. Strip corporations of their political influence and get some politicians who actually give a fuck about America and Americans.

[Anonymous No.3517965]

>>3517953

it's hard to be picky when you dont understand the mechanism of action of the drug, the side effects, the contraindications, etc...

it's hard to be picky when you have no information

[Anonymous No.3517966]

>>3517962

>Send Obama back to Kenya.

derp.

[Anonymous No.3517972]

>>3517952
>Only if it's provable that the drug was the cause. And the common citizen has neither the expertise nor time nor money to try to research such an idea.

how do you think they find out what the side effects of the medication are? Have you heard of focus groups. If they don't trust the medication then they shouldn't take it.

>Only if it's provable that the drug was the cause.

This can literally be applied to any product.

[Anonymous No.3517973]

>>3517714
>Free markets also have an incentive to provide you clean food, once again you don't need the FDA.

not if the cost of shit food is lower and your profits higher, gtfo with free-markets

[Anonymous No.3517976]

>>3517045
>MFW that 1$ trillion dollar healthcare bill actually lowers the defecit by 200-300 billion by 2014 after it's all said and done.

>i have no face because i fucking hate people who hate the healthcare bill for no reason. in b4 u mad. Yep, mad.

[Anonymous No.3517978]

>>3517965
most people don't which is why you have a doctor prescribe it to you. Even then most people don't read the side effect labels.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517980]

>>3517962
>Send Obama back to Kenya.
Almost had me. But then you had to play the racist / birther card, so you fail.

Protip: I hate Obama, but probably not for the reasons you think.

[Anonymous No.3517986]

>>3517972

side-effects aren't always blatant and obvious. they may takes weeks, months, years to manifest. they can be different depending on your age, gender, weight, genetics, etc.

to prove that the drug is causing a side-effect you would need actual scientists to run several controlled studies at different levels. Would you fund them?

And then you'd have to pay your lawyers to make up some sort of case for you...who has the money to buy scientists and lawyers every time they get a prescription?

And it's also hard to sue people if you are dead.

[Anonymous No.3517990]

>>3517976
Won't happen once they start forcing people to get health insurance prices will go up. Government projections are bullshit.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3517992]

>>3517972
>This can literally be applied to any product.
Indeed. Luckily for us, only a few products are of the type which can plausibly be said to cause significant harm to only 1 out of every 10,000 customers in a very hard to observe way. The other products either blow up in your face, or they just work, like a car.

[Anonymous No.3517995]

>>3517980
By the way, I'd like to hear your ideas on how we implement the use of Thorium Reactors, I want some more information on this subject, it was very intrigueing when I researched it

[Anonymous No.3518000]

>>3517986
You would still have to do that today. Just because the bottle says the drug may have this side effect that still wouldn't prove that the medication caused it.

[Anonymous No.3518004]

Watching you Ameriderps ITT has just highlighted what the ROW has known for a long time:

>Americans are seriously retarded

'Scientist', you gotta get out of there before they go all Atlas Shrugged on you and toss you in a concentration camp for trying too hard to explain shit to them. Good luck, bro, over and out.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518005]

>>3517960
Heh. You must be new to /sci/. Mad Scientist, Nuka-Cola, I, and others, all go on all the time about the molten salt reactor. Raising consciousness we are.

[Anonymous No.3518006]

>The U.S. spent 15.3% of GDP on health care in that year; Canada spent 10.0%

>Canada's health care is 70% paid for by Gov.
America's health care is 46% paid for by Gov.

average life expectancy for Canadians was 80.34 years compared with 78.6 years for residents of the U.S.

American citizens pay more and live less.

[Anonymous No.3518010]

>>3517992
I'm sure if someone died for some mysterious reason the medication wouldn't be the obvious culprit.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518015]

>>3518000
Yes, but the idea is that the drugs given to you are safer now than they would be without the FDA.

>>3517995
>By the way, I'd like to hear your ideas on how we implement the use of Thorium Reactors, I want some more information on this subject, it was very intrigueing when I researched it
All I know is what I've found in the various Kirk Sorensen youtube videos,
http://energyfromthorium.com/
and various googlings.

Here's two of the videos.

TEDxYYC - Kirk Sorensen - Thorium
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2vzotsvvkw

Energy From Thorium: A Nuclear Waste Burning Liquid Salt Thorium Reactor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZR0UKxNPh8

[Anonymous No.3518021]

>>3518004
doesn't realize FDA approved drugs have killed and harmed people. Implying you can remove all risk.

[Anonymous No.3518025]

>>3518015
Hmmm, some of the same sites I used during my research last year. Thanks for your input, maybe one day this shit can be implemented, hopefully not too late.
I hear India already plans on building quite a few Thorium Plants themselves, so I guess the world will see soon enough.

[Anonymous No.3518027]

>>3518015
>Yes, but the idea is that the drugs given to you are safer now than they would be without the FDA.

No they aren't they all have a laundry list of side effects and people still take them because the benefits outweigh the risks.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518029]

>>3518004
Pretty much. They've been brainwashed that markets solve all. It's irritating.

The worst is when some other idiots see me and call me a socialist. I'm totally a capitalist. I call socialists and communists and Venus Project idiots out all the time on their idiocy.

The problem is that it's not something you can put on a 2 dimensional graph. Economies is more complex than that.

[Anonymous No.3518032]

1: A multi-pronged assault on corruption and inefficiency in every sector of the economy, anything and everything should be targeted, every problem and every niche. All of this within reason of course as it is important not to waste resources on white elephants, by maintaining standards innovation will be enhanced by directing resources towards the most feasible new ideas.

2: Obviously I don't understand every tiny technical detail of every sector of the economy, it is important to recognize my limitations and for the administrative system to be capable of amending itself to allow talented individuals to take over management from inefficient bureaucracy. At the same time it is important to ensure the system is streamlined and not plagued by red tape where it needs to be.

[Anonymous No.3518036]

>>3518000

What's your point? I dont get it.
They did the testing so you don't have to, and so you can make an informed decisions about the side-effects, so you and your doctor can weigh pros vs cons...They bottle will say "causes birth defects, dont take if preggers"...they might miss a side-effect, but they'll nail 99 out of 100.
How the fuck would a doctor prescribe a drug to you when he doesn't know how it can interact with other drugs, or what side-effects it can have? Lol. Who would be liable? The company or the doctor or you for taking an untested poison?

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518037]

>>3518025
India is being retarded and doing solid fueled thorium. China in the last year or so have announced their doing the molten salt thorium reactor. So, in the future, not only can we import our products from China, we can import our reactor designs too! Hurray!

[Anonymous No.3518040]

3: Pragmatism, structural functionalism, plurality and utilitarianism are the primary doctrines. These should not simply be memorized abstractly by civil servants but taught so they understand their value and know how to implement them. This is of particular political value since it will allow civil servants to maintain an aura of professionalism and objectivity in contrast to silvertongued politicians who will inevitably attempt to interfere with proceedings.

4: Of what I am certain about the technical details, the primary concern is the financial system, the nature of bubbles should be made widely known and a political culture should change to bring accountability to state banks along with "fat cats", as for specific reforms they I am uncertain of the exact actions that should be taken but they must involve matching interest rates to several economic growth indicators and a project aimed at fostering the most economically viable R&D as well as various creative industries, services and information services. The focus will be on practical diversification, making sure those 1000s of little innovations that add up are tested or developed properly and uses found for them.

bleh I'll stop there, how's that?

[Anonymous No.3518045]

>>3518027
>No they aren't they all have a laundry list of side effects and people still take them because the benefits outweigh the risks.

You can't weight the risks if you dont know them, people take them because they know the side-effects...

if you dont, then you are just gambling with your body like a stupid junky...and only the most desperate would do that

you can't have untested drugs, no doctor would prescribe them in good conscience...

[Anonymous No.3518050]

outlaw outsourcing jobs
raise taxes on imported goods

force America to create jobs, produce/export goods

Ta-da. I fixed it.

[Anonymous No.3518055]

>>3518029
Its funny because you use socialist straw men, bad incentives and the profit motive being unable to do it and that information isn't free.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518060]

>>3518037
>their
Crap.

[Anonymous No.3518062]

>>3518045
so the incentive would be to test them, just like the market tests everything else.

[Anonymous No.3518070]

>>3518036
The point is you would still have to get a lawyer and scientist to prove that the medication actually caused your problem. You can have birth defects but that doesn't mean the medication you took caused it even if it said it has a risk of causing birth defects.

[Anonymous No.3518071]

>>3518062
So the DOCTORS pay someone to test the drugs, or the doctors refuse to use drugs that the companies have not tested?

Basically you're hoping to privatize the third-party testing, or at least someone who will assure standards. It might work, but how well I'm not sure.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518072]

>>3518055
>socialist straw man
>information isn't free
While I may have exaggerated else-thread (not sure), I did not exaggerate about this. This is not a straw man. This is a very important limitation of unregulated markets.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518075]

>>3518071
And as soon as you privatize it, you are immediately subject to the freerider problem and the entire thing mostly breaks down.

[Anonymous No.3518080]

>>3518071
The companies pay to test them so that doctors will prescribe them in confidence.

[Anonymous No.3518084]

>2011
>Believing that political parties can solve Americas problems.
>Believing that America will not go to shit no matter who is president and what political party is the majority.

I seriously hope you guys keep believing this.jpg

[Anonymous No.3518086]

>>3518062

yes and we test them with gov agencies

since testing itself isn't profitable and since companies would free-ride on whoever paid to get their drug tested, which means they would have lower costs than the guys who paid for testing lol...

or, if left to the market, would be highly biased...Pfizer and Roche would easily afford to set up their own testers...and get biased results and they could test their competitors drugs and fail them, lol...

or they could simply pay more to get their drugs approved quicker and easier...and then the testers would just be selling "approval" ratings

you need one body, unbiased, and without a profit motive

[Anonymous No.3518087]

>>3518072
It really isn't I'm awash in information, its cheap. Food isn't free either.

[Anonymous No.3518093]

>>3518080
>companies self-regulating
hahaha look at this faggot

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518095]

>>3518087
The naive models touted by those in this thread, such as "test it yourself", and so on, fail to account for this testing. If you did the math, you would see that the market would fall apart, and none of the standard advantages of capitalism would be had. The naive free market model only works with rational agents making informed decisions. As soon as you require agents to expend resources to acquire information, the naive model blows up in your face.

[Anonymous No.3518100]

>>3518086
The profit motive insures objectivity. If a testing agency was biased it would potentially put its reputation at risk. Ensuring the quality of your product makes it profitable even if testing isn't.

[Anonymous No.3518104]

>>3517452

OMG THIS. I'm tired of hearing about how these fuckers are voting on shit and don't even know what the hell the bill even does.

But on the other hand I guess some of those things are quite a bit too large.

[Anonymous No.3518108]

>>3518095
yet we do it everyday.

[Anonymous No.3518109]

hey Pfizer did you test that new drug?
"sure, independent third party testing done by our subsidiary in China, ya it's really good just take it."

>drug is a placebo

wow sweet, no side-effects, !!!!

>Trollface.jpg

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518110]

>>3517452
>>3518104
I think the top down enforcement is a bad idea, and I would rather fix the bottom up process. Remove "winner take all single districts" to kill the 2 party state. That's the good first step.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518112]

>>3518100
>The profit motive insures objectivity. If a testing agency was biased it would potentially put its reputation at risk. Ensuring the quality of your product makes it profitable even if testing isn't.

Right... that's why Fox News is out of business... oh wait.

[Anonymous No.3518115]

>>3518093
Yes how silly why would a company regulate itself.

[Anonymous No.3518120]

>>3518109
and then people don't feel better from medication and don't buy it anymore. Are consumers completely witless retards where you are from.

[Anonymous No.3518121]

>>3518100
>The profit motive insures objectivity
>Ensuring the quality of your product makes it profitable even if testing isn't.

Just like how the profit motive worked really well in the real estate market? Just like how profit motive makes CEOs take on less risk and do what is logical and safe?

Just like how the profit motive made BP oil and Exxon Valdez took every precaution possible instead of trying to bypass the legal minimum?


HUE HUE HUE HUE HUE

where do you get your info from? fox-business news?

[Anonymous No.3518124]

>>3518120
>and then people don't feel better from medication and don't buy it anymore.
Placebo effect, look it up.
>Are consumers completely witless retards where you are from.
Please tell me about this free market Valhalla where consumers aren't completely witless retards.

[Anonymous No.3518125]

>>3518112
Or msnbc for that matter.

[Anonymous No.3518129]

>>3518120
>and then people would stop buying...

aren't you aware how many people buy herbal remedies that dont do shit? it's a huge market in america.

if they had the backing of a big drug company, huge advertising, and the claim that it cures XYZ...they would sell even more, and it would take years for anyone to figure it out...if ever.

they would rape huge profits, thats for sure

[Anonymous No.3518130]

>>3518100
Companies always cut corners when self-regulating. You see, cutting corners causes immediate profit, while it may at some point cause loss of reputation and profit. But, since in a corporation you only share in the profits, not the losses, people don't give a shit.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518138]

>>3518120
>and then people don't feel better from medication and don't buy it anymore. Are consumers completely witless retards where you are from.
To be clearer, they would feel better, and actually be better. It's this little thing called the placebo effect. This just goes to show how completely unqualified you are to decide your own medical matters.

Also, do consumers have an infinite amount of money and time to do the double blind studies required to prove that the medicine does nothing where you come from?

[Anonymous No.3518139]

If this board is about science and math then why is so much discussion being devoted to economics?

[Anonymous No.3518142]

>>3518121
>implying the housing market wasn't due to the community reinvestment act, low interest rates set by the fed, and fannie may and freddie mac insuring anything they could

>implying losing a fuckton of oil in an explosion is profitable not to mention the terrible PR

>>3518124
>Placebo effect, look it up.
understood but it wont help with a real problem.

[Anonymous No.3518144]

>>3518139
Doesn't economics use math?

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518146]

>>3518142
>understood but it wont help with a real problem.
Depends what you mean by "real problem". Chronic back pain? It'll help with that. Depression? It'll help with that. IIRC, like 70%+ of the effectiveness of prosac is placebo.

[Anonymous No.3518147]

Companies regulate itself...

Look up Union carbide in india disaster.

Look at how well it regulated itself before the disaster happened. Since India has shitty regulations and safety enforcement, look at how well Union Carbide regulated itself..

why would it? It's an additional cost.

After the disaster, look at how it reacted.

[Anonymous No.3518149]

>>3518138
>Also, do consumers have an infinite amount of money and time to do the double blind studies required to prove that the medicine does nothing where you come from?

How many times are you going to bring this up. They don't need to the companies will test it themselves.

What makes you think they'll be able to sell sugar pills with placebo effects before people figure it out.

[Anonymous No.3518152]

>>3518142
>implying losing a fuckton of oil in an explosion is profitable not to mention the terrible PR
If you cut safety and maintenance from the budget, that's a huge revenue increase right there, especially in the oil business. It's a gamble, which doesn't always pay off for the corporation, but it does always work out for CEOs.

>understood but it wont help with a real problem.
It won't, but it will make you feel like it does, right up to the point where it kills you.

[Anonymous No.3518155]

>>3518146
if it helps it helps.

[Anonymous No.3518159]

>>3518149
>What makes you think they'll be able to sell sugar pills with placebo effects before people figure it out.
I dare say experience with the market and every single scientific study performed into the effects of placebos ever.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518161]

>>3518149
Uhh... do you see all of the snake peddlers of the past, present, and surely future? Homeopathy, the old-school thorium meds. It's not hard to find cranks selling medicine claiming to be legit, and lots of people thinking it's legit, only for it to not be legit.

Prime example: cigarettes. How the hell long did that go on?

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518165]

>>3518155
I'd prefer to make it illegal to sell sugar pills claiming physiological effectiveness.

[Anonymous No.3518169]

>>3518142
>implying the housing market wasn't due to the community reinvestment act, low interest rates set by the fed, and fannie may and freddie mac insuring anything they could

Who lobbied for all that shit? Business interests.
Why? Because they wanted to make easier loans and fancy derivatives and make more profit. It was in their interests to lobby for those things. It was in their interests to then take advantage of the new environment. And they all did. Every private bank, insurance company, and hedge fund took advantage of those new rules they lobbied for and raped the public.

[Anonymous No.3518171]

>>3518165
>>3518161
homeopathy isn't illegal and its still widely used. Doesn't mean that pharmaceutical companies will start selling homeopathic drugs.

[Anonymous No.3518177]

>>3518171
If it's profitable, why not? And we know it's profitable. It costs near nothing to make, and absolutely nothing to research.

[Anonymous No.3518178]

PROFIT MOTIVE: Just like how the profit motive worked really well in the real estate market? Just like how profit motive makes CEOs take on less risk and do what is logical and safe?

Just like how the profit motive made BP oil and Exxon Valdez took every precaution possible instead of trying to bypass the legal minimum?

FREE-MARKETS: Name one country that has used free-markets for at least 5years straight.

None have. Ever.

Derrr austrian liberatrian ron paul economics---durrr

oh shit, it doesn't exist

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3518180]

>>3518171

Homeopathy is legal, but I bet you wont be able to keep your license as an MD for very long if you endorse it.

[Anonymous No.3518187]

>>3518084

Ah yes, psychological slavery was the most ingenious thing ever to come out of these sciences of the "psyche".

The idea that you can keep the majority in a society at the dumb level and then create a power structure that is based above this dumb level is pure genius. The central power is based above this dumb level but acts through pseudo power structures that are based in the dumb level.

People at this dumb level literally can not see or articulate beyond this dumb level, they literally believe dualities are real and can not articulate or fathom the idea that these dualities and opposites are illusory constructs that answer to the same source. It's genius because it creates an infinite cycle who's real purpose is to preserve and maintain the power structure the operates above the illusiory dualities.

[Anonymous No.3518190]

>>3518169
I'm sure no one lobbied for the community reinvestment act to be passed which forced banks to lend to unqualified lenders believing there was some institutional racism because banks didn't lend enough to black people as if loans were favors.

Do you think banks just up and decided to stop doing 30 year loans for some risky ass subprime loans and ARMs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1KwkScA540&feature=fvst

[Anonymous No.3518191]

T-TRICKLE DOWN!

[Anonymous No.3518192]

>>3518169
>>implying the housing market wasn't due to the community reinvestment act, low interest rates set by the fed, and fannie may and freddie mac insuring anything they could

fannie and freddie were private companies, acting in their business interests. The profit motive wasn't working efficiently in that case.

the low fed rate and bush's housing plan were all lobbied for by business interests (i.e fannie and freddie, goldman and j p morgan, etc)

they all like seeing low interest rates and easy lending....

the profit motive corrupts your politics and society :)

[Anonymous No.3518198]

>>3518177
because its not as profitable as actually giving people something that actually helps them.

[Anonymous No.3518200]

>>3518198
But it is. It'll sell just as well, and it costs much less to make.

[Anonymous No.3518201]

1. Disband Federal Reserve (or turn it into purely market overseeing agency, with no ability to issue debt-money), return the money emitting function to the state, like colonial script. All newly issued money must be debt-free, and there is a limit of 5% of moneybase increase per year to prevent hyperinflation. Declare all debt owed to FED and integovernmental debt void. Put back all safeguards against recessions that were put there after WW2, like Glass Steagal Act, and were recently repealed.

2. Close all tax loopholes for the rich and corporations, flat income tax for all, regardless of the way it was earned (wage, profit, interest, rent...)

3. Friedman's negative income tax wefare system will replace all current benefits. Child benefits only for first 2 children. No minimum wage legislation (loses its meaning with NIT welfare).

4. Announce great national Manhattan Project or Moon Race style program, but this time to replace fossil energy sources with Gen. IV nuclear breeder reactors (LFTR, IFR), and electric cars.

5. End all foreign wars and bring all troops home, secure the southern border (Israeli wall style, if necessary), make harboring, transporting and employing illegals a criminal offense (punishable by high fees in case of employing). Replace jus soli citizenship with jus sanguis, like in the rest of the world.

6. Legalise soft drugs, but leave hard drugs illegal. Grant amnesty for all who were imprisoned only for soft drugs posession. Legalise voluntary prostitution.

7. Stop NASA SLS program, and buy launches and spacecraft from private companies. Subsidise spaceflight insurance costs or provide them government insurance for free.

8. Repeal harsh mandatory sentences laws, and ridiculous sex offender laws which criminalise teens and children instead of real sex offenders.

9. tort reform, replace current failed healthcare reform with universal healthcare.

[Anonymous No.3518202]

>>3518192
>fannie and freddie were private companies, acting in their business interests.

they were government sponsored enterprises with their heads selected by the government just like the FED. They had government backing and assumed no risk because of that.

[Anonymous No.3518205]

>>3518200
>implying the placebo effect actually works as well as medication

Full retard.

[Anonymous No.3518208]

>>3518190
>I'm sure no one lobbied for the community reinvestment act to be passed which forced banks to lend to unqualified lenders

it didn't force anything on anyone, it deregulated their compliance policies and lending criteria, it made it easier for them to lend...they could acquire more risk and take less collateral, They weren't forced, in fact it "freed" up the mortgage market more.

What happened when they went closer to a free-market? All they saw was $$$$. Every loan they made increased their assets. And because they could "hedge" their risks by using derivatives and fancy insurance contracts with AAA ratings, they didn't give a fuck about the systemic possibilities...

all they cared for was short-term profits.

[Anonymous No.3518209]

You guys need to get laid NOW.

[Anonymous No.3518210]

>>3518205
Scientific studies say it does, or at least to an extent that people can't tell the difference, for long enough to make a considerable profit.
After people start realizing it doesn't work, you introduce a 'new and improved' drug to the market, which is of course also a placebo you yourself tested and approved.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518212]

>>3518201
>6. Legalise soft drugs, but leave hard drugs illegal. Grant amnesty for all who were imprisoned only for soft drugs posession.
Why? Why not the "hard" drugs? Still moralizing to the public?

>8. Repeal harsh mandatory sentences laws, and ridiculous sex offender laws which criminalise teens and children instead of real sex offenders.
I'm all for this.

[Anonymous No.3518221]

>>3518210
You should try that brah you could make a lot of money like that. You're a genius why hasn't anyone thought of doing this before. I'm sure they'll never figure it out I'm sure they'll get a new placebo effect every time the take your "new" drug.

[Anonymous No.3518227]

>>3518221
have you ever heard of the 'bodybuilding' supplement industry? 99% of their supplements are shit placebos that don't do anything they claim they do

huge market, billion dollar industry...

oh ya, and it's unregulated, nothing in it is FDA approved

[Anonymous No.3518229]

>>3518212

>Why? Why not the "hard" drugs? Still moralizing to the public?

Because hard drugs are far more addictive and far more harmful. Its not about moralisation, its about what would have less bad effects on the society and productivity of people. I dont think anyone who have seen the effect of heroin or meth firsthand would agree that it should be legal like alcohol. We can maybe talk about cocaine.

[Anonymous No.3518230]

>>3518221
Companies already do, in parts of the market that aren't regulated.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518237]

>>3518229
I'm of the opinion that making it illegal does little to stop addictions, costs shittons of money, and makes crime occur where there was no crime before.

There's also the little matter of liberty and freedom and self determination. I'm deathly allergic to the phrase "bad for society" when we're talking about lowering freedom of self determination in order to increase economic production. Sorry - I disagree.

[Anonymous No.3518239]

>>3518208
except id did force them to and as soon as those laws went into effect the price of housing unhinged from inflation. They were free to make arms and sub primes before but they didn't until that legislation came in, derivatives didn't hedge against the risk of the arms and subprimes.

[Anonymous No.3518255]

>>3518237
>Legalize hard drugs
>If you deregulate pharmaceuticals they'll kill people

People won't have free information informing them that drugs are bad bro

[Anonymous No.3518257]

>>3518192

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CHKjKi_LZc

Close but this guy pretty nails it, in much better terms.

If American had the balls to take back their sovereignty from these bankers, it would be in a much better position. Right now the USA is just a slave to these global bankers that it ironically created in the first place.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518260]

>>3518255
You seem to imply that I have a contradiction. I merely want the drugs properly tested and labeled. If you sell it with clear labels "This is addictive and will kill you in X ways", like cigarettes, then I have no problem.

[Anonymous No.3518266]

>>3518230
>>3518227
and you believe that the entire pharmaceutical industry will become placebo. Has it ever occurred to you that not all people are retards who take homeopathic drugs and that doctors probably won't prescribe them because they won't help you and you'll stop going to him.

[Anonymous No.3518269]

>>3518239

derivatives were used to make bets on securities based on the mortgages and loans

which increased systemic risk overall --

maybe fannie and freddie can't be seen as independent companies, but plenty of banks and private mortage companies jumped on the wagon and engaged in risky behavior

[Anonymous No.3518270]

>I'm of the opinion that making it illegal does little to stop addictions, costs shittons of money, and makes crime occur where there was no crime before.

The important question is: Are the expenses required to enforce criminalisation of hard drugs greater than the expenses which would be caused by anyone having far easier access to the most addictive and harmful drugs?

In the case of soft drugs yes. I the case of drugs like heroin, I think no.

>There's also the little matter of liberty and freedom and self determination.

Freedom and self-determination somehow loses its meaning when we talk about highly addictive drugs. You do not have freedom to stop taking them, its not voluntary at all.

[Anonymous No.3518271]

>>3518260
You want to sell people shit that will kill them all for profit brah. I thought people wouldn't buy shit that was labeled and said it would kill them, brah.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518272]

>>3518266
No, it hasn't. Do you know the current state of patent law and how the drug companies basically bribe a lot of doctors to commit fraud on their patients by telling them stuff contrary to the patient's best self interest?

Frequently a drug company will make a drug X, get a patent. Patent expires. They have a new drug Y which does almost the same thing as X, except better, and now 10x as expensive as X because X is not under patent. Doctors start selling Y because they're paid to do so by the drug companies, even though Y is barely better than X, and arguably the patients should be on X.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518276]

>>3518271
>You want to sell people shit that will kill them all for profit brah.
Sure.

>I thought people wouldn't buy shit that was labeled and said it would kill them, brah.
I never said that. I think cigarettes are damning evidence to the contrary.

Don't worry. Continue your straw man and out of context quotes. I'll be here all night.

[Anonymous No.3518281]

Increase taxes

Fix'd

[Anonymous No.3518283]

>>3518266

probably not the whole market, some drugs will inevitably work, but many won't, and profits will be raped out of costumers, and costumers will spend money on garbage, and many times on garbage that can make them even sicker

[Anonymous No.3518284]

>>3518257
>linking
to max keiser who is a free marketeer

>>3518169
>implying interest rates and bailout are free market

[Anonymous No.3518290]

>>3518284
>>implying interest rates and bailout are free market

i never implied that.

but free markets are impossible.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518291]

>>3518270
You make some somewhat interesting arguments. Still, on the liberty issue alone, and in the interests of small government, and in the interests of not setting bad precedent that the government knows what's better for me than me, I would want such things to be legal.

I also want suicide and assisted suicide legal. However, I am not against enforced ~3 day waiting periods and counseling before the assisted suicide, given that most people would change their mind about suicide. I see similar parallels to these addictive drugs. I wouldn't be against some sort of waiting period, or counseling, before getting them, and I would be for licensing them to make it harder for kids to get them, but I am still against making them illegal.

In short, my political philosophy is that I am my own sovereign. I know what is best for me. Not you, and not the government. No one has the right to be my parent.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3518295]

>>3518291

>I also want suicide and assisted suicide legal.

Yus.

[Anonymous No.3518299]

>>3518272
Who gives out these draconian patents
>>3518283
This sort of speculation has always been wrong, why would any company improve anything if they didn't have to they could just keep selling you garbage, yet that doesn't happen.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518302]

>>3518299
>Who gives out these draconian patents
The government, and this needs to be fixed by drastically scaling back patent law. It needs to be reserved for actual novel inventions and not the shit nowadays.

It's basically 'beyond the pale' broken when there are patents for perpetual motion machines.

[Anonymous No.3518308]

[Anonymous No.3518312]

>>3518290
but you see those problems aren't problems with the free market they are exactly the opposite of free markets.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518313]

>>3518308
/sigh
A good example of how our courts are broken.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3518317]

>>3518313

How is that an example of how our courts are broken?

Sometimes coffee is served at temperatures that will give third degree burns. Temperatures that are cost efficient.

[Anonymous No.3518319]

>fix the economy.
Remove corporate personhood.

[Scientist !!ThFjnJh4EkH No.3518325]

>>3518317
That warning is probably there as a preventative measure to prevent the company from being sued by an idiot that spills coffee on himself.

It's idiotic because no one is going to read that as they are handed the coffee.

It's a demonstrable failure of the court system.

[resident /sci/ economist !!0CqB7P/574e No.3518335]

>>3518325

Everyone spills something sometime though. That doesnt make you an idiot. How does it demonstrate a failure?

[Anonymous No.3518387]

>>3517045
yep

[Anonymous No.3518452]

>>3518335
>Spill hot coffee on yourself
>I told you about capitalism bro

[Anonymous No.3518646]

Another example

[Anonymous No.3518740]

>>3518270
Interestingly, for the past 10 years, starting in 2001, Portugal decriminalized ALL drugs in an attempt to fight the growing number of deaths caused drug abuse/HIV/drug crime.
They have had unexpected success and the system seems to be working very well over there. Mind you, decriminalization not legalization.

>"Now instead of being put into prison, addicts are going to treatment centers and they're learning how to control their drug usage or getting off drugs entirely," report author Glenn Greenwald, a former New York State constitutional litigator, said during a press briefing at Cato last week.

>Under the Portuguese plan, penalties for people caught dealing and trafficking drugs are unchanged; dealers are still jailed and subjected to fines depending on the crime. But people caught using or possessing small amounts—defined as the amount needed for 10 days of personal use—are brought before what's known as a "Dissuasion Commission," an administrative body created by the 2001 law.

>Each three-person commission includes at least one lawyer or judge and one health care or social services worker. The panel has the option of recommending treatment, a small fine, or no sanction.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization