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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3514946 No.3514946 [Reply] [Original]

>> No.3514958

Yeah because you best promote critical thinking by never mentioning it anywhere ever.

>> No.3514957

>>3514946
sage

>> No.3514970

Why do theists claim that Dawkins is some kind of atheist pope?

>> No.3514974

Op, are you against the book in general or do you just think too many people read it as uncritically as a religious person reads a bible?

>> No.3514983

Because all atheists follow the teachings of a book that I have never heard of before, and not all Christians follow the bible.

>> No.3514978

It's true, atheists get ideas from books.

The difference is, we read more than one.

>> No.3514984

>>3514978
And so does almost every theist outside of Saudi Arabia

>> No.3514996

The only thing that atheists universally believe in is that a supreme being, or supreme beings do not exist. Now please let it go /sci/

>> No.3514997

>>3514984

>Implying the average Christian reads anything longer than a menu or street sign with any regularity

>> No.3515003

thats exactly what this book does, makes you think for yourself. dawkins uses logic to show that theists should doubt shit.

>> No.3515011

>implying you should disregard every book ever

2/10

>> No.3515015

>>3514970
They feel threatened by him I guess.

They can't really answer his arguments so they get buttmad and claim he is an extremist on the level of a terrorist.

>> No.3515026

I've never read the God Delusion and I don't know what arguments are presented in it.

There is a division in the Atheist community regarding Dawkins, some love him, some hate him. He's hardly a leader, he's just an Atheist who happens to be famous, and makes a big deal out of being an Atheist.

That said, I have been trolled. 7/10 good sir.

>> No.3515082

>>3514997
>Implying the average atheist strawman Christian reads anything longer than a menu or street sign with any regularity

FTFY

>> No.3515091

>>3515015
>They feel threatened by him I guess.

Naw, we just laugh at him.

>They can't really answer his arguments

All his "arguments" have been refuted a long time ago.

>> No.3515094

>>3515091
[citation needed]

>> No.3515097

>>3515015
Name any argument out of his book, and I will refute it for you right now.

>> No.3515098

>>3515094
That we laugh at him? I don't think that needs any citation.

>> No.3515104

>>3515097
That modern Christians are somehow to blame for the Inquisition.

>> No.3515106

>>3514946

>hating an outspoken atheist who hates religion

>2011 CE

>> No.3515110
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3515110

>>3515098
>All his "arguments" have been refuted a long time ago.

>> No.3515113

>>3515110
There's not a lot of point arguing them with true believers such as yourself.

>> No.3515119

>>3515104
Bwuahahahaha. He actually said that? buwuahahah what an idiot whuauahahaha

>> No.3515126

>>3515119
How about claiming that all Christians think the Earth is 6000 years old?

>> No.3515130

>>3515126
I'm a Christian and I don't think the world is 6,000 years old. It's billions and billions of years old. Radiometric dating says so. Next.

>> No.3515135

Ignoring the many uplifting/instructive passages in the Bible in favor of cherry picked ones where God kills people.

>> No.3515133
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3515133

>>3515113
>implying I really give a shit about religion

just open to new ideas.

>> No.3515140

>>3515097

refute David Hume's essay 'On Miracles'.... Thomas Reid and C.S. Lewis both failed pretty miserably on that one.
And I was embarassed for Dinesh D'Souza's 'attempt'

>> No.3515142

>>3515135
>My God is all-loving!
>You're just picking out the parts where he's not, and ignoring the parts where he is!
>ALL-loving
>Murders babies

I really don't see how this is a good argument for you.

Showing that your deity is inconsistent doesn't make it easier to believe in it.

>> No.3515144

Arguing that Christians are supposed to follow the OT laws to the letter when Jesus abolished the old covenant (and the Israelites probably didn't follow the Mosaic laws to any meaningful degree anyway)

>> No.3515146

>call Atheists idiots for idolizing a book
>idolize a book

Dude just wrote a book talking about his thoughts and shit. That's a bit different from some dudes writing a book that millions of people think has the answers to life, the universe and everything.

>> No.3515149

>>3515140
Um...we're talking about the argument's presented in Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion...not whoever you're talking about. Apparently atheists can't read.

>> No.3515151

>>3515142
Whoa whoa whoa. God didn't abort your baby. You did, you bonehead.

>> No.3515163

>>3515144

Yeah but again, it's cherry picking. Disregarding all the shit that makes you look like Muslims. We get it, Christianity has moved on. It has had to keep up with an increasingly liberal society. Even though your book says stone people, you don't do it. Good for you. I can appreciate that. But it still tells the story of when God said it was okay to slaughter an entire settlement of people. So yeah, there's that. Be accountable or stop defending it.

>> No.3515168

Arguing that the Dark Ages were the fault of Christians instead of Europe having no governments of any significance following the fall of the Roman Empire.

>> No.3515169

>>3515144
>Jesus abolished the law
>Matt 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

READ YOUR OWN BOOK.

>> No.3515186

>>3515169
Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

>> No.3515187

>>3515169
What Jesus argued against were those Jewish priests who turned the law itself into a god and adhered to a rigid, dogmatic interpretation of it.

>> No.3515196

>>3515149

one of us HASN'T read... if you don't know who David Hume was, and you think you know 'All the answers'...you haven't even heard all the questions. You better ask somebody.

>> No.3515200

The part where Jesus saves the woman from being stoned sums up everything.

"What are you doing?"

"This woman committed adultery. We are putting her to death as it is written in the laws of Moses."

"Very well then. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

(everyone gets up and walks away)

Jesus then says to the woman "You are free to go, but don't sin any more."

>> No.3515206

yay! finally a good religion thread!

>> No.3515207

>>3515187
That's true.

However, taking "Shellfish are an abomination unto the Lord" to mean "Don't eat shellfish" is neither rigid nor dogmatic.

Those laws still apply.

>>3515186
So, God can flood the world and destroy all life, again?

Because that was a Covenant. A pretty important one, really.

Also, this would mean that Jews are no longer Yahweh's Chosen People, because their Covenant with him is broken. Sucks to be them.

Yeah, turns out stuff that Jesus said contradicts what his followers said A LOT.

>> No.3515214

>>3515200
you forgot the cool part; Jesus was writing in the sand while they were making their accusations. the finger of God, writing the law, on crushed stone. once they got that, they left one by one.

who are you trying to fool with your silly law riddle? Me? I wrote the law! (doodle doodle doodle)

>> No.3515222

Well I guess that I haven't read his book I don't count as an actual atheist. Even if I did, there is a couple of very important differences.
>implying I have to agree with every word he says to please an angry sky daddy.
>implying your religion allows you to pick and choose what you want to believe out of your book
>implying you aren't following a 4000-2000 year old mythology with many of the morals and views we can universally agree to be unjust.

Guys come on, we read more than that. Stop being sil- Oh god, I've been trolled, haven't I?

>> No.3515223

>>3515130
>bible > radiometric dating

really, is that not your position???

>> No.3515225

>>3515135
i like the ones where God kills people the bestest

>> No.3515232

>>3515169
>Jesus fulfilled the Law

next

>> No.3515236

haha they're turning atheism into another religion. hilarious

>> No.3515239

>>3515207
wtf are you babbling about?

>> No.3515248

>>3515236

The idea is hilarious and satisfying to theists who have lost arguments to atheists, so despite the fact that it's a lie, they repeat it.

>> No.3515252

>>3515207
>So, God can flood the world and destroy all life, again?
The old covenant does not refer to all the promises God made. It refers to the means of salvation, keeping the law perfectly, and replaces it with depending on Christ's righteousness not our own. Basically you are making words mean something they do not mean, not a good argument.
>Jews are no longer Yahweh's Chosen People
Romans 9:
"6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring."

>> No.3515246

>>3515222
It's alright, man.

It happens to everybody. Just take a deep breath.

>> No.3515261

>>3515239
Follow the conversation.

>Jesus abolished the law!
>Bible quotation of Jesus explicitly saying he didn't.
>Bible quotation of one of Jesus' followers saying he dissolved all previous Covenants, so yeah, he did.
>Not destroying the world with a flood was one of God's Covenants.
>The Jews being God's Chosen People was another.

Seemed sensible enough to me, mate.

>> No.3515277

>>3515252
No, God explicitly said that the rainbow was the symbol of HIS COVENANT WITH MAN.

It's the same goddamn word. It's one of four or five Covenants he makes with the world.

If making a new one dissolves the old, then God is free to destroy all life with a flood. He's gone back on his word. He's a dick.

If NOT, then your stupid argument that Jesus was LYING about the law being in effect because God had dissolved the Covenant by making a new one is false.

You're moving goalposts all around, man. Pick a stance and stick with it.

>> No.3515285

>>3515248
i myself am religious, but i find it funny that a group (atheism) whose belief system is based on not being the same as all the other systems (theistic religions) now finds itself following the same pattern as the theists. they now have preachers and books. coming up- atheist churches! lol

>> No.3515290

How funny. You people think that the New Testament does much better in terms of morality just because the big Jigga-Christo came and made things all reasonable and shit.
>God is head of jesus, Jesus head of man, man head of women etc etc
AW NAW, those women better think twice if they think they have any authority in the household
>Slaves shall obey their master no matter how unjust
Oh shi- I guess Harriet Tubman and the Abolitionists are burning in hell FOR ALL ETERNITY NOW.
Shit moral man.

>> No.3515291

>>3515261
>Follow the conversation.
i'll do my bestest

>Jesus abolished the law!
He actually fulfilled the Law; big difference

>Bible quotation of Jesus explicitly saying he didn't.
saying He didn't abolish the Law, check. see above.

>Bible quotation of one of Jesus' followers saying he dissolved all previous Covenants, so yeah, he did.
>God has never dissolved any covenant; you are free to do the dick cutting no pork eating one if you want. gonna be hard to get into heaven though.

>Not destroying the world with a flood was one of God's Covenants.
He will burn this shit with fire, not drown it again in water. even gave us a pretty rainbow to remember not to worry about drowning. now, catching on fire, that you should worry about.

>The Jews being God's Chosen People was another.
still are; temp. blinded for now, but still are.

>Seemed sensible enough to me, mate.
you being wrong must suit you well then

protip: nobody was saved by the Law. the Law is there to show you how far away you are from being God. if you want to live with God, you have to be transformed. if you want to be transformed, you have to ask. if you ask, He will answer. if you can't believe, you can ask for the faith that will enable you to believe.

makes sense to me, mate

>> No.3515300

>>3515290
*shit's

>> No.3515308

>>3515285
in the south, they call those "bars"

>> No.3515305

>>3515285
>Atheism is based on being different

You're thinking of hipsters, dude.

Atheists don't believe in god. That makes them different from theists because theists believe in god, but to say that it's based around being different is silly. In that respect, EVERY religion is based around being different from every other theistic belief.

Tell a Baptist he's basically just a Scientologist. See how that goes.

Go into a conversation and confuse Yahweh for Zeus ("Yeah, the Flood makes sense, but turning into a bull and raping a woman? That's messed up."). See how much religions are all basically the same.

Quit being a prick.

>> No.3515303

>>3515277
so is cutting off the tip of your dick. what's your point?

cut off the tip of your dick = blood covenant to possess the land of Abraham.

rainbow = no more global floods

Jesus' new covenant: love God with all your heart, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.

you can pick whatever covenant pleases you, knowing that God keeps His end of the deal, always.

>> No.3515317

>>3515290
slaves, indentured servants, workers; you should have a little better idea what you are referring to.

protip: they used to have debtor's prisons, and if you couldn't pay off your debt, you could become someone's slave for a set period of time, thus paying off your debt.

little different from knocking Kunte Kinte over the head, dragging his ass to Georgia, and whipping him until he says his name is Tobe

>> No.3515320

>>3515290
>Jigga-Christo
YES

>> No.3515323

>>3515291
Coincidentally, does it seem sensible to you that you're allowed to threaten me with fire and death?

What if atheists threatened to set your house on fire if you didn't forsake God? Would that be acceptable? It's what you're doing. We'd just be forgoing the meaningless life part and skipping right to the burning torture part.

>> No.3515341

>>3515317
Yeah, letting the rich enslave the poor for being poor.

That's great. I'm so glad your religion is so enlightened.

>> No.3515342

>2011
>being atheist
I seriously hope none of you are this butthurt

>> No.3515350

I'm christian and don't 100% believe everything the bible says.
Hi everyone!

>> No.3515361

>>3515350
What is this bullshit.
How dare you refer to yourself as a christian.

>> No.3515366

>>3515323
why not warn you where you're headed?

>> No.3515383

>>3515361
You're right.
God is so nice that he forces you to believe everything he says or you'll go to hell!

>> No.3515391

>>3515383
Its nice of him to inform us of the requirements. At least I have a chance. Much better than not being inform. Just imagine how hard it would be then.

>> No.3515392

>>3515207
The food prohibitions weren't about morality, they were for health reasons.

>> No.3515397

>>3515317
So this definition of an indentured servant somehow removes Kunte Kinte out of the equation? Because the history of the interpretation looked pretty bleak for both definitions of the word.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery#History_of_institutional_slavery

>> No.3515400

>>3515305
Then you're admitting atheism is just another of thousands of religions.

>> No.3515414

>>3515366
It is not a threat in the sense that:
If you do not follow Jesus, then you will go to hell.
The reality is you are going/deserving of hell because of your sin, but through Jesus there has been made a way out.
To understand this in any other way is to create a straw-man.

>> No.3515424

>>3515391
THEN we have the problem of the other Abrahamic religions doing THE EXACT SAME THING. Subscribe to one, then the other damns you to an eternity in hell. If I have no reason to believe any of them except for faith, why subscribe to anything in the first place?

>> No.3515429

>>3515414
You are going to die one day.
Am I threatening you. No, just informing.

>> No.3515433

>>3515424
Prolly not.

>believe in Christianity
>Whatever; same god as Islam, just that Jesus is a prophet instead of God's son
>believe in Judaism
>I'm not a Jew, so irrelevant

>> No.3515441

>>3515414
But what about all that "there is no way to the kingdom except by me" noise?

>> No.3515442

>>3515424
>Subscribe to one, then the other damns you to an eternity in hell
>This is what atheist actually believe
Protip: They don't
There are a few jews who believe jesus was a false prophet, but other than that your post is pure nonsense.

>> No.3515461

>>3515442
IIRC most Jews just think Jesus was a wise man/teacher.

>> No.3515476

>>3515470
Islam does too.

>> No.3515470

>>3515442
>because the only religions with hell are christianity and judaism.
nice going bro

>> No.3515484

>>3515470
Can't into reading comprehension. I never implied that nor was my point centered around that.
The only way someone would believe someone of another religion is condemned is if they are following a false prophet.

>> No.3515488

>>3515433
Then you have the problem of completely conflicting scriptures. You have 2 people claiming to be God's brodogmang4lyfe and you have a group of people who came before these assholes saying "why the fuck are you shitting new stuff in my book?". Both of the prophets are telling you to follow them or suffer 5000 hellrapes instantly forever and the people they stole the religion from are like "don't listen to the fucking posers, we are the real fuckin thing! God's lovebabies foreva" You can't really expect me to believe that God put these three ideas on earth just to fuck with us.

>> No.3515491

>>3515441
What about it?
While it is true: If you do not follow Jesus, then you will go to Hell. What I was trying to point out is that it is not because you do not follow Jesus that you will go to Hell. It is because of your sin. I should have put the THEN in all caps I guess, because I was trying to remove the implicit causation.

>> No.3515511

>>3515441
Didnt read it in its original language.
Way to fail theology.

>> No.3515515

>>3515488
Same basic message, but slightly different ways of interpreting it.

>> No.3515524

>>3515442
FUCKIN A DUDE. Don't make me pull out the Qur'an and Bible. Both prophets said to their disciples that the only way into the kingdom of heaven is through them. That is why the fucking wackjob Christians stand on the corner with their fucking signs that say Jesus is the only way, with scripture mind you. And Muslim extremists don't take too well with us saying that Mohammad was a liar. THE JEWS CALL ALL OF IT BULLSHIT.

>> No.3515537

>>3515524
As I said, slightly different ways of retelling the same message. Of course they were going to say their way was correct and better than the other guy's beliefs. Just human nature.

>> No.3515543

>>3515488
The difference is that Christianity is a continuous message from the old testament, from the beginning of man's existence; whereas, the Qur'an is not and contradicts what came before.

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

Sounds like Islam ehh? Muhammad received his revelation from an angel.

>> No.3515545

>>3515524
see>>3515484
protip: people interpret their religion differently

>> No.3515565

>>3515543
The Koran is pretty much based on the OT with some tweaks and original material such as the belief in genies (neutral spirits that may be good or evil) that's not found in the other religions.