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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3466994 No.3466994 [Reply] [Original]

How can morality be even considered when someone's making a conclusion based on evidence?

I mean hundreds of years ago it was considered evil to believe the Earth wasn't flat, and even today they'll call you a bad person for believing in evolution, when it all comes from evidence.

But today there's something else that's still treated like this, and that's racialism, or as people like to call it "racist bigotry" (incorrect terms).

If one looks at the evidence they can make up their mind about certain races being better at others in certain aspects, that we are biologically different, that race isn't a social construct etc. But apparently this is wrong no matter what the evidence is, to the point that it's against the law and banned on this website.

Isn't this the same as putting people in jail for disagreeing with the Church?

The truth is sometimes a bitter pill to swallow.

>> No.3467000

A cock is sometimes better to swallow. And that's what you should have done instead of posting.

>> No.3467007

>>3467000

You are guilty of the same irrationality as the priests of the 17th century.

>> No.3467011

Where is this evidence?

>> No.3467009

>>3467007
Not even that guy, but 0/10

>> No.3467013

1/10

>> No.3467017

jeah I also hate the ignorance of society and politicians.
Germany will get fucked up from all these Ottoman people(meaning sandniggers).

>> No.3467018

stupid people and criminals are everywhere
kill them all regardless of race or shut the fuck up

>> No.3467022

>>3467018
>2011
>not being stupid and criminal

ishygddt

>> No.3467026

btw Thilo Sarrazin is the best example for what you are describing.
You can read the wiki article if you don't know him

>> No.3467039

Morality can be defined by the well being of conscious creatures.

>> No.3467040

>sociopath with racial paranoia and delusions of grandeur slaughters dozens of his own race, thinking that mass murder will provide public support for his anti-immigration policies
>it fucking works

I don't want to live in this world anymore.

>> No.3467053

>>3467011

Here is SOME. Now you may disagree, but what if I think it's good enough? People are allowed to be creationists why can't I be a racialist?

Race: a social destruction of a biological concept
http://www.ln.edu.hk/philoso/staff/sesardic/Race.pdf

Thirty years of research on race differences in cognitive ability
http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf

The Color of Crime
http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.pdf

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/9530.aspx - IQ differences are largely genetic.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15611031/ns/technology_and_science-science/ - MSNBC article detailing the research of Dr. Bruce Lahn. It has recently been discovered that all non-Africans possess 6% neanderthal DNA. Black Africans posess 0% neanderthal DNA. This articles describes how that neanderthal admixture fueled the evolution of the modern human brain. If this is true, then we would expect people of African descent to be less intelligent than people of non-african descent. Something which pans out in statistics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study - Minnesota transracial adoption study. Which proves that upbringing has no very little impact on IQ. Black babies adopted by White parents still possessed the same incredibly low average IQ as Blacks raised by Blacks.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090121093343.htm - Monoamine oxidase A. The "warrior gene", used to be called the "thug gene", changed for reasons of political correctness. Linked to violent, criminal behavior. 7 times more common in Blacks than in Whites, 3 times more common in Whites than in Asians.

>> No.3467059

>>3467053
pasta

>> No.3467066

>>3466994
holy shit. look at this guy's face and then look at the picture of the side profile of the neanderthal skull in the neanderthal thread.

this guy is like a miniature neanderthal.

>it fucking works
ORLY? all i see is a bunch of trolling.

>People are allowed to be creationists
actually, they're widely ridiculed for being ignorant, posturing, jingoistic douchebags

>why can't I be a racialist
same thing.

faggot. i ain't even mad

>> No.3467068

Sure there are differences in the races. Only diehard liberals will dispute that. But really, it's no reason to separate the races, or to kill off a race, or to discriminate against them.

>> No.3467074

>>3467053
inb4 Ignorant fuckers
They're not going to read these links, they will just deny everything.
I hate ignorant moralfags.

>> No.3467078

>>3467065

Why are you going off the point? I could refute your point but even if I couldn't it wouldn't make any difference.

People are allowed to believe in creationism, for which there is no evidence, why can't I believe in racialism?

>> No.3467082

>>3467068

>, it's no reason to separate the races, or to kill off a race, or to discriminate against them.

that's not what racialism is. even believing that races are biologically different is considered a crime.

>> No.3467083

>>3467078
Believe in whatever the fuck you want, but you aren't allowed to kill people.

>> No.3467087
File: 23 KB, 800x460, hurrdurrgraph.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3467087

>> No.3467088

>>3467082
>even believing that races are biologically different is considered a crime.
This is what stormfags really believe.

>> No.3467097

>>3467068
So you think its good that an overproportional amount of black ppl is raping our white women ?
I hope a black guy rapes your mom and your sister.

>> No.3467106

>>3467097
if your white women choose to suck black cock, maybe you should have raised them better.

don't hate the player, hate the game.

FACED.

>> No.3467108

>>3467088

Except I couldn't care less about Black people. I live in a 97% White town with virtually no crime.

I have no political views and I'm only interested in the science and history of races.

>> No.3467115

>>3467108
>claim impartiality
>Except I couldn't care less about Black people. I live in a 97% White town with virtually no crime.
Nice.

>> No.3467116

It's too bad that the issue of race is so often used at the expense of socioeconomic factors, geography, and anything else that's not nearly as fun as color.

Let's make up some statistics on the fly: A black person is 2% more likely to mug you. You treat it like they are 300% more likely to mug you. That isn't certainly the norm, but it feels like it.

>> No.3467123

>I mean hundreds of years ago it was considered evil to believe the Earth wasn't flat, and even today they'll call you a bad person for believing in evolution, when it all comes from evidence.

"The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses."
-- Sagan

People laugh at you because you're wrong. Stop trying to play the victim card.

Also, this is not analogous to "flat earth" or Galileo's suppression, because your view (racialism) was the mainstream thought some time ago. It is no longer the mainstream thought. Also, when you accuse people who disagree with you of "thinking all races are absolutely equal," you are committing a blatant strawman since most rational people do recognize racial differences, just not as profound as you probably believe.

>> No.3467124

>>3466994

It's scientific conservatism.

>>3467039

What?

>> No.3467122

but its not like all blacks or any race have the same ethnic backgrounds. some blacks have a lot of european in them, too....i mean, its hard to generalize when everyone comes from so many different places.

>> No.3467127

Ok OP, what do you want to achieve besides proving to everybody that black people have a lower average IQ than white people?

>> No.3467134

>>3467097
Definition of rape:
"any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person. "
source:http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rape

ignorant fucktart

>>3467108

That small percentage of blacks is overproportionally commiting crime...still likely that somethings going to happen to you

>> No.3467140

>>3467123

> just not as profound as you probably believe.

wrong. the evidence is there, it's just being suppressed so you don't see it.

read the links someone posted above and tell me we're all "almost" equal.

fucking liberals.

>> No.3467160

there are a couple of possibilities.
one being that our values were based off of illogical ideals and as a result were just sort of silly and that now we have true morality.

the other, which is probably more likely to be the case is that morality changes over the course of time. ultimately a standard for what is and isn't good seems to be ingrained in human nature.

assuming that racial differences are acknowledged by the general public it could result in cacophany. or not. i don't know

>> No.3467175

>>3467162
>It's too bad that the issue of race is so often used at the expense of socioeconomic factors, geography, and anything else that's not nearly as fun as color.

captcha: arrows menticia
fucking captcha, how does it work?

>> No.3467181

The answer is racist views are being silenced to push multicultural/interracial breeding propaganda.

>> No.3467186
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3467186

>>3467181
>The answer is racist views are being silenced to push multicultural/interracial breeding propaganda.

Of course, how could we be so blind.

>> No.3467196

>>considered evil to believe the Earth wasn't flat
NOPE.jpeg
>>today they'll call you a bad person for believing in evolution
This has more merit, but only the religiously pretentious do this.

Ill give you a 1/10 since Im feeling nice.

>> No.3467197

>>3467140

Not the guy you're responding to.

But it is important to know that much about every such 'evidence' is biased towards one end or another, specially because this is a delicate topic nowadays. I wouldn't count on any data provided by external agents.

Another important thing to consider is that statistical data is, well, _very_ difficult to interpret correctly. It is very easy to commit a serious interpretation error based on whatever reason. And it is not uncommon for this data to be used, as said above, to manipulate the public opinion towards any specific position.

At last, statistics by itself does not really demonstrate any kind of causality, but instead _should_ point to a more specific direction of study of the events being measured.

>>3467181

I agree with you to some degree.

>> No.3467202
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3467202

>>3467186

I was expecting that. I see the propaganda has worked well, anyone who challenges is gets called a tin foil hat wearing psychopath.

Good luck America, it's hopeless now.

>> No.3467210

>I mean hundreds of years ago it was considered evil to believe the Earth wasn't flat, and even today they'll call you a bad person for believing in evolution, when it all comes from evidence.

It absolutely was not. FE and RE theories were proposed in greek times, FE remained consensus for a while as it had corroborating evdence but eventually Round earth took over. People haven't thought the earth was flat for at least a millenia, and before then it wasn't considered evil.

>But apparently this is wrong no matter what the evidence is, to the point that it's against the law and banned on this website.

Believing the earth to be flat doesn't hurt anyone. Believing blacks are inferior does. There isn't a sufficient body of evidence in either direction on racism's validity, so it's considered dangerous and illegal.

>> No.3467211

>>3467116
Its more like 800%...

Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

Blacks are three times more likely to use a hand gun, and twice more likely to use a knife.

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-lafayette/federal-statistics-of-black-on-white-violence-wi
th-links-and-mathematical-extrapolation-formulas


I know you will just ignore this because you are ignorant.

>> No.3467215

>>3467211
Now compare whites and blacks in equal social situations.

>> No.3467216

>>3467140
Well, once upon a time, I was curious about this "racial" intellectual inequality argument and did an extensive survey of the data. After all the back and forth and lies and propaganda it seems that American Negroes have an average IQ of 100 as opposed to "Anglos" with 105. Asians 110 (Stanford-Binet based tests). This was as of 2000, roughly. Interestingly, the national average is up 5 pts from 1960 where it was Anglos @ 100 and the spread still 5 pts as above.(probably due to nutrition, but whatever).

What the fuck is 5 pts? and who gives a shit.

Also, clustering, both for intelligence and crime, also most black crime is on other blacks, clustering again, which is socio-economic.

Do some real fucking research and piss of.

>> No.3467219

>>3467211
Do it again with "poor people" and "people in broken homes".

>> No.3467222

>>3467216
It's someone rational! Get him!

>> No.3467228

>>3467215

Blacks and hispanics from the same socioeconomic backgrounds commit crimes at a higher rates than whites.

>> No.3467232

>>3467228
>the same socioeconomic backgrounds
Sure.

>> No.3467233

>>3467216

>IQ

so you just looked at iq? great, as if that makes a difference.

black people have more testosterone and other things that makes them aggressive. nothing to do with intelligence.

cry more.

>> No.3467231

>>3467228
Oh look, it's that guy who never admits he makes mistakes!

[citation needed]., obviously.

>> No.3467235

>>3467216
Good sir could you point me towards the source of your information?

>> No.3467240

>>3467215
In average a white will not be is the same situation because his genetic IQ is higher in average.

You would keep going and going all day, fact is: you are ignorant sir.
Ignorance is bliss for the people that are and it pisses non-ignorant ppl off.
I'm raging like fuck.

>> No.3467237

>>3467232

I dare you to say since they are black it is different thereby admitting the problem is the race.

sigh

>> No.3467244
File: 578 KB, 1000x2250, negro arguments.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3467244

>>3467219

>socio economic factors
>historical events
>opression from whites
>slavery
>etc.

all bullshit excuses

>> No.3467256

>>3467237
The Jews deserved to be killed: Through 1932-1945 they barely contributed to the German economy at all.
>>3467244
>a /new/ board
>doesn't provide citation

>> No.3467253

>>3467216
And let's not overlook the fact that the spread in any ethnic group is such that you're just as likely to meet a smart negro as a smart Anglo, or Asian anywhere you go in the more civilized parts of the country (eg. Cali as opposed to Alabama) or an ignorant fuck, such as here on /sci/.

Once again, fuck off, you ignorant twit.

>> No.3467257

>>3467244
>all confounding variables are bullshit
OK

>> No.3467254

>>3467231
I am not OP but here you fuck:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study - Minnesota transracial adoption study. Which proves that upbringing has no very little impact on IQ. Black babies adopted by White parents still possessed the same incredibly low average IQ as Blacks raised by Blacks.

>> No.3467260

>>3467256
> Through 1932-1945 they barely contributed to the German economy at all.
I thought they were the greedy bankers stealing all the profits?

Maybe you're thinking of gypsies.

>> No.3467264

>>3467256

I am against initial acts of aggression.

>> No.3467272

>>3467256

As if you'd read them. Ain't even gonna waste my time.

>> No.3467274

>>3467232
actually. there's the small matter of culture to consider.

for a time, african americans were denied any opportunity to be treated as humans. that meant that they could not father families.

the people you call hispanics were targetted for genocide.

i wonder what sort of values would surface as a result, hmm? perhaps a bit of antisocial behavior?

you'll probably have to do something about crime and welfare (regarding the former, open carry ftw) but give it a few more generations and the pattern ought to even out.

some people who had to drink from different fountains are still fucking alive. that's not to say there aren't a lot of dumb niggers but give it some more time.

>> No.3467275

>>3467254
>incredibly low average IQ
Sorry, no.

Also, we've got bigger problems.

>> No.3467278

>>3467256
Everybody knows that jews have an intellectual advantage if compared to europeans.
Hitler killed them cuz he felt threatend by them.

>> No.3467285

>>3467264
Were you saying, Liberty that Blacks and Hispanics are more violent than whites?
My mom is hispanic, and my Dad is black. Both are hardworking taxpaying members of society.
My dad has been working for 50 years straight, and owns his own business selling clothes.
I am against violence and wars, and racism of any kind.

>> No.3467289
File: 345 KB, 661x642, blacks.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3467289

>>3467274

>african americans were denied any opportunity to be treated as humans

The ones that were left to develop in Africa are sure doing well.

>> No.3467292

>>3467254
>asks for citation
>gets insulted
I didn't think I'd actually say, and mean, that /sci/ was worse than it used to be.

The study was of 130 people. You can't conduct a study on 130 people and then treat the results like they're anything more than a prediction.

Furthermore, if you read the citations you'd see
>At the time they joined their new families, for example, the Black adoptees had had more prior placements, rated of poorer quality, than their White counterparts. This was especially the case for the children with two Black birth parents, who were not adopted until they were, on average, about 32 months old. Because any later IQ differences between these groups may have resulted from differences in preadoptive experience, the Minnesota data provide no clear evidence for the genetic hypothesis. But it is only fair to say that they do argue against certain versions of the environmental hypothesis (pending the necessary Flynn effect corrections): The mere fact of growing up in a middle-class home apparently does not, by itself, raise one's score on intelligence tests given at adolescence.

>> No.3467297

>>3467274
Hispanics were never targetted with genocide.They're spanish.

>> No.3467298

>>3467272
I read all of them. They don't provide citation, they're worth no more to me than mein kamph.

>> No.3467302

>>3467275
Lol, what I see in this thread is the following:

People who say there are differences between the races are naming sources, have good arguments etc.

The others are just denying, downplaying...no sources just ignorance.

And there is no way to help them.

>> No.3467306

>>3467274

Quick fact: black biological two parent (opposite sex) family households from slavery until the start of welfare programs were the overwhelming vast majority (this is 75-85 percent percent or so). Since then the rates have gone down to 38 percent.

>> No.3467308

>>3467302
Find me a source comparing blacks and whites in equal socioecconomic situations' crime rates and test scores.

>> No.3467311

>>3467289

>The ones that were left to develop in Africa are sure doing well.

>implying America, UK, the "dutch" the "west" haven't raped africa since forever, oppressed its people and stolen its resources, given them cheap weapons and corrupted their governments, kept wages down and AIDS up (thanks catholics).

Yep, "left alone to develop"

>> No.3467319

>>3467308
This is test scores:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study

>> No.3467325

>>3467285

In america, the statistics say so. In fact blacks, and other aboriginies of any country always have higher crime rates.

I look down on some racism (if it is not funny), but I support the act of any and all thinking and speech. Racism is simply a thought.

>> No.3467327

>>3467319
and this is my response, from the same journal:
>>3467292

>> No.3467338

>>3467235
That would be the rational thing to do, but unfortunately (here comes the excuse) my bibliography was lost when my computer fried some while back. Since then I 've lost interest.

That said, any good big library can provide all the info you need in a neutral manner. Of course, many of the shits on this thread are unable to do a neutral data search (data source bias and all that).

But you can start with data on authoritarianism, which reveals lower average IQ in right-wingers, as well as (mildly to massively) underdeveloped prefrontal cortexes, etc. which of course controls ethical behavior. (but that may be off topic).

The data is out there. But let's be sure to ignore the war on drugs, which is specifically targeted to low-income demographics, and the war on education, etc.

Lots of fucked up things about this country when it comes to race.

"One drop of blood" principle, etc.

>> No.3467339

thread needs more graphs

>> No.3467334

>>3467308

That is easy unless you tell him they have their own bracket because they are black.

>> No.3467336

Even if a race, blacks for instance, were genetically less intelligent than another race, that wouldn't really change the nature of an act of racism. If we view the characteristics of race as a social construct, black people are more likely to be less intelligent than white people. If we view it as a biological issue, then black people are more likely to be less intelligent than white people.

It doesn't alter the end result. Racism is still unethical because you're making generalizations and assumptions about an individual based on the race they belong to. A black person is still capable of being just as smart or smarter than a white person, even if probability indicates it's less likely.

>> No.3467343

>>3467334
The fact that you constantly assert things without providing citation is wearing me down. I'm going to stop replying to you if you don't provide a study in your next post.

>> No.3467346

>The others are just denying,
really? who?

>downplaying...
we're showing you the flaws of your 'evidence'

>no sources just ignorance.
god exists, prove me wrong.


>anyone who challenges is gets called a tin foil hat wearing psychopath.
>ignoring counterarguments and only addressing the personal attack, forgetting that such is par the course on an anonymous forum
this is preschool bullshit. you lost us when you brought up the 'raping of white women' crap.

your emotionally based attacks are called dog whistle arguments for a reason.

if you want to appeal to us, make an appeal to reason.

try better next time, stormfags.

>> No.3467347

>>3467311
>implying german wasn't on the receiving end of the two of the most destructive events in human history and pulled itself out, twice
>implying south korea didn't develop after being left alone after the korean war
>implying the philipines didn't either

>> No.3467351

>>3467068

WHITE NATIONS ARE FOR EVERYBODY!

>> No.3467353
File: 181 KB, 1000x662, colonized.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3467353

>>3467311

When are you going to stop with the fucking excuses?

Does the historical oppression justify the animal-like behaviour?

The looting and raping that took place in Katrina, compare that to the behaviour of the Japanese in their disaster.

>> No.3467358

>The ones that were left to develop in Africa are sure doing well.
>implying there isn't a lack of water in africa thereby making agriculture and thereby advanced culture a matter of difficulty

>> No.3467359

>>3467343

I appreciate you abandoning the debate.

>> No.3467364

>>3467336

PLEASE GET A FUCKING DICTIONARY AND LOOK AT THE MEANING OF THE WORD RACIALISM

IT DOES NOT INVOLVE PREJUDICE TREATMENT OF ANYONE

>> No.3467361

>>3467216
except the nigger score isn't 100 on average, it's 70

>> No.3467377

>>3467359
I was wrong, I'll do this one too:

Liberty has just demonstrated he has no actual evidence beyond debunked studies and IQ tests that don't take social and ecconomic brackets into account. Even when explicitly asked, he refuses to provide them.

>> No.3467378
File: 24 KB, 250x243, 1311891474720.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3467378

>>3467311
>2011
>still making excuses for Africans

>> No.3467384

>>3467327
This downplaying of the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study is written in the wiki article because people like you wrote the article or because ppl like me wrote it under the moral pressure of people like you.

So don't build up all your arguments upon something like this.

>> No.3467380

>>3467346

>this is preschool bullshit. you lost us when you brought up the 'raping of white women' crap.

you're the one that posted a picture of someone wearing a tin foil hat

please learn what a logical fallacy is before you claim other people are using it

are you 15?

>> No.3467381

>Katrina
katrina happened in new orleans. niggers come in all colors in new orleans.

>> No.3467392

>>3467358

Why have nearby Arabic countries been able to develop then?

>> No.3467393

>>3467377

Why provide proof of a rebuttal to a first claim?

>> No.3467395

>>3467384
I don't know what you're trying to a achieve

>> No.3467403

>>3467393
It isn't a first claim. The claim is that it's plausible that race isn't a social construct, and there is no evidence I have seen supporting that.