This is what creationists actually believe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_BzWUuZN5w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLr5vl-n0Bo

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Anonymous Mon Jul 25 12:08:41 2011 No.3447874 [Reply] [Original]

This is what creationists actually believe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_BzWUuZN5w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLr5vl-n0Bo

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 12:29:41 2011 No.3447949 bump

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 12:39:41 2011 No.3447983 File: 40 KB, 500x578, 1311184654525.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Stop reposting this shit. Creationists should be pitied not mocked.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:08:41 2011 No.3448072 >>3447983 I agreed. Creationists should be pitied and sterilized, not mocked.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:11:41 2011 No.3448079 can't watch faggoty youtubes at work summarize please and get ready to get mocked for not understanding the Flood, the ark, Noah, or God, at all

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:13:41 2011 No.3448088 >>3447983 >>3448072 No, they should be mocked Point and laugh at them

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:20:41 2011 No.3448119 >>3448088 you mean, just like the wicked men of Noah's day pointed at and mocked him for building this huge ark for no apparent reason? right before they all drowned? mock on, dude. there ain't a flood coming this time; there's an inferno.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:25:41 2011 No.3448141 >>3448119 Of course, thank you for reasonable and scientifically supporting that statement

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:31:41 2011 No.3448167 >>3448119 no, YOU go to Hell.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:35:41 2011 No.3448190

>>3448141
prophecy is not scientific

in the end days, it will be as the days of Noah; people will get married, and give away their children to be married, without a thought or care in the world that they are facing the end.

so as in the days of Noah, so you live.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:36:41 2011 No.3448195 >>3448167 i wouldn't even go there to visit, and you are preparing eternal accomodations in a lake of fire. real smart.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:37:28 2011 No.3448199 File: 69 KB, 500x500, 1298794753486.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3448119 >mfw creationism is the largely accepted idea and the big bang is looked to many people as insane and not possible unless their ideas are incorporated into it

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:38:41 2011 No.3448209 >>3448199 it follows that if you are aware of the Creator, then you believe the Creator in how He said that He created the universe. without a knowledge of the Creator, you are just making educated guesses, and none of them correctly.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:42:41 2011 No.3448230 >>3448209 >i'm right you're wrong because my parents taught me the right belief as a child and there's no way it could be wrong unlike santa, the easter bunny, cupid, the tooth fairy, and every fairy tale i've ever read that was popular for a long time

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:44:41 2011 No.3448233

>>3448230
God is right, and if what you say aligns with what He says, then you are right too.

if you contradict God, you are wrong

the only way not to know that is to not believe in God at all, and it is only the fool who says in his heart that there is no God

you're not a fool, are you?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:45:41 2011 No.3448242 >>3448195 Nope. Go to Hell.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:46:41 2011 No.3448245 >>3448233 Nice Gibberish, Tex.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:46:41 2011 No.3448247

>>3448242
do you know that Hell is a real place, and not a frame of mind, or a fantasy land, or a figure of speech? that it is indeed a real place designed for the devil and his angels to be imprisoned forever in a new universe without evil?

yeah, i didn't think so.

wise up.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:47:41 2011 No.3448254 >>3448079 It's about the impracticality of putting 12000 species of bees, insects, 600 hundreds species of snakes, ect.. on a boat.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:47:41 2011 No.3448256 >>3448247 Nope. Go to Hell.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:48:41 2011 No.3448258 >>3448245 that was not some real frontier gibberish, there, you. imagine for a moment, though, that God were evil, or a liar. in that case, what hope would we have? no, better for God to be right and all men to be liars.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:49:41 2011 No.3448260 >>3448254 ah, i see. we assume that the parents of all living species were somehow present on the ark, and then we argue that all species are constantly undergoing speciation. what a nice cognitive dissonance you have there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:50:41 2011 No.3448264 File: 54 KB, 571x570, Cool Story Bro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3448233 how do you know you have the right god?

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:50:41 2011 No.3448270

>>3448233
I know you're just fucking with him, but god only exists in your head. Nice way to isolate yourself from reality, but if god was enough you wouldn't be on 4chan in the first place. We need people like you to do meaningless labor, and not to enter deep, complex discussions.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:50:41 2011 No.3448271

>>3448256
are you asking me to visit you? i'm afraid that is impossible. there is a gulf between heaven and hell currently that is impassable. i could not even offer you a drop of water for your burning tongue, even if i wanted to.

and in the heaven and hell to come, you will be contained in the outer darkness, where you will be unreachable, forever.

by your own choice.

and i'll be exploring new universes with the Creator, Jesus Christ.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:51:41 2011 No.3448274 >>3448258 'Purple is a nice animal'... just because you string words together, doesn't make them MEAN anything.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:51:41 2011 No.3448276 >>3448271 you are failing. Go to Hell.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:51:41 2011 No.3448277

>>3448264
He's the only real man, who really said that He is really God, who really raised people from the dead, who really predicted His own resurrection; who was really publically executed, and who really was raised from his grave on the third day.

Real man, Really God. He's not hard to pick out of the lineup of "other" "gods"

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:52:41 2011 No.3448282 File: 99 KB, 600x750, Christianity.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Thor > pussy ass jesus who died from people

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:53:41 2011 No.3448287 >>3448277 and where did you get that information from?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:53:41 2011 No.3448292 >>3448270 thank you for the compliment that i could imagine Jesus Christ. once you study Him, you will realize how high a compliment that is. you can study Him your entire life and not scratch the surface

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:53:41 2011 No.3448294 >>3448287 I think he pulled it out of his ass.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:54:41 2011 No.3448298 >>3448287 eyewitness accounts and the effect of a 33 year old joo carpenter on modern society, indeed, the roman empire, and the world. you never thought it curious we're still talking about this Jesus of Nazareth thousands of years later?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:55:41 2011 No.3448302 >>3448292 I look in your eyes, and I see doubt... I look in the cat's eyes... and I see none. Now who should I believe?

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:55:41 2011 No.3448304

>>3448276
my friend, the only thing that makes me win is the grace of God. being a guilty sinner scumbag myself, i know that only the grace of God saved me. nothing i did, or am, or will be; nothing but His grace.

He offered the pardon; He offered the gift of faith.

He is the God of Love, not the God of Rape. You have to ask Him in.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:56:41 2011 No.3448307 if you'd actually read the Bible, there is no Hell .. you either go to Heaven, or you disappear into nothing. the lakes of fire and red devils sticking forks up your ass was created just to add some more fear into it so you obeyed the church.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:57:41 2011 No.3448310 >>3448302 oddly enough, your cat probably knows more about God than most posters at this lovely website. if you could see into my eyes, and properly discern, you would see concern, not doubt. He has erased all doubt.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:57:41 2011 No.3448315

>>3448307
i did read it. here's a bit i read today in response to your query:

Revelation 21:8
New King James Version (NKJV)

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:58:41 2011 No.3448319 >>3448298 'ask him in'.... oh you're one of THOSE GUYS! ... have fun going to hell for being a Heretic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:58:41 2011 No.3448320 File: 15 KB, 268x265, 1285183875787.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:58:41 2011 No.3448321 the tale of Jesus was a rehashing of the old egyptian god Horus with a few others thrown in for good measure, jesus didnt even exist and you've wasted your life on that shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:58:41 2011 No.3448323 >>3448119 >right before they all drowned? lol what a shitty god christians have

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:59:41 2011 No.3448329 File: 7 KB, 255x75, funkycaptcha.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3448304 The god of rape always blames his victims. Also what the hell is on the right side of this captcha?

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 13:59:41 2011 No.3448332

>>3448319
if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

scripture, not heresy

but the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is indeed a possession, and must be done willingly. and once done, all else pales.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:00:41 2011 No.3448337 >>3448321 read deeper. the tales of the mythical horus were changed after Jesus resurrected from the dead. the older manuscripts, i.e. the BC manuscripts, have none of the modern mythos of the mythical horus myths are myths

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:01:41 2011 No.3448338 - implying pain isnt felt by nerve endings all over your body which are destroyed after death, so your consciousness or soul wont be feeling any hot pokers up the ass from satan.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:01:41 2011 No.3448339 >>3448332 I'm sorry. You are wrong. Find a REAL Christian and ask them what the Bible says.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:01:41 2011 No.3448343 >>3448323 people like to think of Him as a carebear, and forget that He is holy and just, and can be filled with a righteous fury and overpouring of wrath. if you took your part in killing the Lamb of God, prepare yourself for the Lion of Judah.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:02:41 2011 No.3448345 >>3448338 >implying your natural body isn't transformed into an eternal body capable of feeling eternal pain

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:03:41 2011 No.3448351 >>3448339 the only "real" christians are ones who believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. there is no other author or finisher of salvation than Jesus. anyone who makes a claim to be a "better" christian is still an infant, spiritually speaking

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:04:41 2011 No.3448355
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>>3448298
Just like how we still talk about Troy, Hercules, and Gilgamesh?
There's also eyewitness accounts for aliens visiting Earth, ghosts, goblins, and trolls.
And how to you account for majority of the world NOT believing in Jesus Christ.
There's hundreds of religions out there and you think that yours is right simply because you were taught it as a kid?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:05:41 2011 No.3448360 >>3448329 the devil wanted to be higher than God; had his revolution somehow succeeded, then one who takes delight in tormenting you would be in charge, forever. thank God that was not possible.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:06:41 2011 No.3448368 >>3448355 who worships a city? who worships Heracles? who worships Gilgamesh? hundreds of millions of people know that Jesus is God's Son, and equal to God. where's the line for the Gilgamesh pilgrims?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:07:41 2011 No.3448371 >>3448339 Romans 10:9 New King James Version (NKJV) 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:10:41 2011 No.3448378 >>3448368 They are all dead because Christians either got to their children or conquered anyone who believed different

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:10:41 2011 No.3448381 >>3448378 what sort of God can't preserve His people?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:12:41 2011 No.3448386 File: 89 KB, 477x361, 1296680471658.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] ITT: objective knowledge vs. subjective knowledge shit never turns out well, and it sure isn't related to science

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:13:41 2011 No.3448390

>>3448343
Anger is a proof of unwiseness .
A God cannot be angry.
Kids are angry. Stupid limited primates are angry (humans are part of the Primates group)
The idea that a omniscient, omnipotent being could express such basic, animal, agressive behaviour is ridiculous .

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:15:41 2011 No.3448392 >>3448381 What kind of God makes people do everything: create the religion, conquer the people, spread the faith. Why isn't 'God' doing any of these things? He is 'God' shouldn't he be going out and showing his own creations that he's real?

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:16:41 2011 No.3448397

>>3448371
Matthew 7:21

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:17:41 2011 No.3448401 >>3448386 >objective knowledge >subjective knowledge Explain. My first reaction is "bullshit".

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:17:41 2011 No.3448402

>>3448392
lol no..you got to understand that god is a sadistic, power mad entity, a cosmic son of a bitch who loves to torment the poor things he created HIMSELF, following his own rules. We're still waiting for a cosmic hero to finally kill this monster.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:18:41 2011 No.3448404

>>3448390
God indeed displays anger, but He is slow to wrath.

But don't kid yourself. He's killed billions of people, and sent them to Hell. His standard is perfection. Anything less than perfection, and you go into the scrap heap.

And the only way you can be perfected is through the blood of His Son, which was shed for you.

Believe, and you will be saved. Believe not, and you will be required to pay for your sins. and the wages of sin is death (but the gift of God is eternal life through His Son, Jesus Christ)

take the gift.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:19:41 2011 No.3448411 >>3448386 oh, i'm sorry; i thought science was the pursuit of knowledge. apparently revealed knowledge doesn't count in your eyes. but revealed knowledge through pants crapping cripples is ponderous

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:20:41 2011 No.3448418 >>3448392 people do everything? all we do is accept the gift of faith, which enables us to believe that Jesus Christ is the promised messiah, the Son of God. God does everything, and through His Holy Spirit. what we do as mortals is insignificant.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:22:41 2011 No.3448433 >>3448404 >take the gift No thanks. I am not a coward and I do not obey to terrorists. You fucking pussy.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:22:41 2011 No.3448434

>>3448397
that is one of the scariest verses in the bible for pretend christians. it is rooted in the fact that the name of Jesus Christ has inherent power. you can wield that power as a non-believer, and delude yourself into thinking you're doing God's work.

but it is only the power of Jesus' name that enables those feats to be accomplished. if Jesus does not know you, it is because you are not filled with His Holy Spirit. only by being filled by His Holy Spirit does He know you, and retain your name in the Lamb's Book of Life.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:22:41 2011 No.3448435 >>3448401 >objective knowledge knowledge of reality that exists independant of the mind (science) >subjective knowledge knowledge of reality that exists dependent of the mind (religion) very simply put

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:23:41 2011 No.3448444

>>3448433
it's hard to imagine a God who took a bullet for you to be a terrorist; likewise, it's tough for me to consider you some sort of strong man. a strong man knows his limitations. a strong man knows his weaknesses. upon being told he has to be perfect, a strong man will bend the knee to Jesus Christ, and be saved.

the foolish, the arrogant, and the wicked man will not.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:24:41 2011 No.3448449 once you realize that Christians that just have to Witness to you, no matter what, are just suffering from OCD.... it makes them kind of funny. Still annoying, but funny.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:24:41 2011 No.3448451 >>3448418 What exactly does 'God' do? Just list me the things he does that we haven't already done.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:24:41 2011 No.3448452 >>3448435 remember the good ol' days when you yourself pretended to be a christian? lol you damn yourself with foolish definitions, foolish ideas, and false hope.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:25:41 2011 No.3448458

>>3448411
>oh, i'm sorry; i thought science was the pursuit of knowledge. apparently revealed knowledge doesn't count in your eyes.
"Science is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the world"
emphasis on testable. all i see here is prophetic nonsense.

>but revealed knowledge through pants crapping cripples is
strawman, troll harder

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:25:41 2011 No.3448459 >>3448449 you laugh at people with OCD? lol you're a real peach i tell people with OCD that they can find rest in Jesus Christ

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:26:41 2011 No.3448461 >>3448444 >>3448434 >>3448418 >>3448411 >>3448404 Etc Metal disorder known as OCD

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:26:41 2011 No.3448464 >>3448451 1. Create universe want more?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:27:41 2011 No.3448468 >>3448461 low copper? high zinc?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:27:41 2011 No.3448470 >>3448464 Proof?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:27:41 2011 No.3448472 >>3448459 hahahahaha! 'peach'... no... I'm an Asshole. Never said I wasn't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:27:41 2011 No.3448477 >>3448470 is there a universe?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:27:41 2011 No.3448480 >>3448452 >remember the good ol' days when you yourself pretended to be a christian? i'm not sure i'm the person you should have linked to. i just got into this thread, and your post isn't relevant to mine

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:28:41 2011 No.3448482 >>3448434 that's actually the opposite of what that passage means, which is clear from the context. Fucking evangelicals are stupid.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:28:41 2011 No.3448486 >>3448482 how so?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:29:41 2011 No.3448489 >>3448480 so you're an actual unbeliever? and proud of it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:30:41 2011 No.3448496 >>3448468 I'm in extra good health. Sports, no unnecessary fats or sugar and a quite happy person. I'm on /sci/ 1, 2 max hours /day , no more. And I do not believe in a god.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:30:41 2011 No.3448499 >>3448482 John 6:29 New King James Version (NKJV) 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” any other points you'd like to be corrected on?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:31:41 2011 No.3448502 >>3448496 what is the reason for your unbelief?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:31:41 2011 No.3448503 >>3448464 How do you know?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:32:41 2011 No.3448505 >>3448489 >so you're an actual unbeliever? and proud of it? nothing of this sort was implied or relevant in any of my 4 posts in this thread

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:32:41 2011 No.3448507 >>3448503 unrefuted eyewitness evidence from the Creator Himself: Genesis 1 The History of Creation 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:33:41 2011 No.3448510 >>3448505 and yet, you are still on your way to Hell? why? why be the smartest guy in Hell?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:36:41 2011 No.3448518 >>3448510 keep on trolling bro, you might actually get me mad

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:37:41 2011 No.3448523 >>3448510 There isn't a hell. Just like there's no Greek Hades or Mayan underworld. Presumably you're an adult living in a developed country in 2011. What's your excuse for having primitive beliefs?

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:37:41 2011 No.3448524

>>3448518
it is not my intent to make you mad; it is my intent to make you think

only eternal things are important
you are neglecting your eternal soul

why study a minute fraction of the creation, when you can arrange to spend eternity with the Creator Himself?

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:38:41 2011 No.3448525

>>3448502
I like science and/then have a brain that's good at it.
And I see religion for what it is : a mental manipulation tool using ignorance, the desire for human minds to prefer simple explanations and the need to feel special, to be reassured. It's all about your ego. You, and only you. Your personnal God, in your head.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:38:41 2011 No.3448530 File: 43 KB, 437x286, scn08.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3448507 I have this book that says otherwise. And it's confirmed with more modern people so I'm pretty sure this has more proof than that outdated 'Bible' of yours.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:40:41 2011 No.3448536

>>3448523
easy. the bible has been right my entire life. the greeks and the mayans have not. (although the mayans are fascinating in regard to their study of the heavens, which we have completely lost)

picture yourself 1000 years from now, in Hell, and cursing me for not telling you EXACTLY how to avoid your fate.

repent of your sins; turn to Jesus Christ; believe on Him, and you will be saved.

for the thief on the cross executed next to Christ was saved, by believing: "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

we are less than, now. we are not more than.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:41:41 2011 No.3448547

>>3448499

We are talking Matthew, why you have to go cherry picking in John?

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:41:41 2011 No.3448551 >>3448536 Well what happens when you die and there's no heaven or hell? Just death?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:42:41 2011 No.3448552 >>3448524 >you are neglecting your eternal soul lol ok i'll bite how would you know whether or not i'm a believer based on what i've posted?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:42:41 2011 No.3448554 >>3448525 i agree with you. that is the role of religion. i preach Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God just for that purpose; so that the message does not get muddied up by "religion"

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:43:41 2011 No.3448562

>>3448530
you can choose to believe any number of false teachers; L. Ron Hubbard being just one of many.

the litmus test is this: "who is Jesus Christ?"

if the answer is "God, and the Son of God, and the only way to be saved", you're good to go

if the answer is a "prophet" or a "good teacher" or a "rabbi", that religion is false.

it all hinges on Jesus Christ.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:44:41 2011 No.3448568

>>3448536

>> the bible has been right my entire life

No it hasn't. You mistakenly believe it has.

>>picture yourself 1000 years from now, in Hell, and cursing me for not telling you EXACTLY how to avoid your fate.

I can picture myself riding a pterodactyl and shooting lasers from my eyes in 1000 years. Doesn't mean it's going to happen. In fact what neuroscience has revealed about the brain precludes the existence of any sort of afterlife as memory, emotion and thought are products of the brain's operation and not extricable from it.

>>repent of your sins; turn to Jesus Christ; believe on Him, and you will be saved.

No, for the same reason you won't bow down to Ahura Mazda and his prophet Zoroaster. It's ridiculous primitive silliness, which is obvious to anyone outside of either religion.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:44:41 2011 No.3448571 >>3448554 >i preach >Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God That's religion.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:45:41 2011 No.3448577

>>3448547
why switch subjects?

your first point was that "works related" salvation is bogus. i agreed.

now you're saying that false teachers are bogus. i agree again.

nothing changes that in your first example, it was unsaved people using the inherent power of Jesus' name to do works such as healing and the casting out of demons. therefore i told you it was the exercise of the power of the name of Jesus that these people thought would save them. it is not. it is only the belief in Jesus, the messiah, and his shed blood that leads to salvation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:46:41 2011 No.3448582 If evolution is true then why are we so unfit but surviving so well? America is the fattest, unfitness nation on earth but it is arguably surviving.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:46:41 2011 No.3448583 >>3448562 >there's false teachers everywhere in the world >BUT JESUS SURE ISN'T A FALSE TEACHER OH NO SIREE

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:46:41 2011 No.3448585

>>3448552
there are only two types of spirit in the world, and they are incompatible. the Holy Spirit in me shows me things that i could not otherwise see.

however, i am not your judge, and my discernment is not perfect, and it is not too late.

today is the day of salvation; you are not promised tomorrow.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:47:41 2011 No.3448586

>>3448551
for me, it would be a tragedy

for you, it would be the best thing that could possibly have ever happened to you

protip: it's not possible. God does not lie, and God said most men would be cast into Hell.

be part of the few. the humble. the saved.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:49:41 2011 No.3448593 >>3448571 it is the Way i only care that some are saved; from there, find a church; good luck with that, too. it is indeed the time of the days of Noah, and faith based Holy Spirit filled churches are few and far between.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:49:41 2011 No.3448597 >>3448582 because physical superiority has become a unecessary trait for survival. in fact, there are no real necessary traits for survival in much of modern society

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:51:41 2011 No.3448605 >>3448582 it is not surviving. i'm here, and i'm telling you, america is not surviving. it's staggering from a knife blow, and bleeding out.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:51:41 2011 No.3448608 >>3448381 >>3448368 Buddhist existed before christians, and still do. Sumerian civilization is older than 6000 years, so the bible is wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:51:41 2011 No.3448611 >>3448586 Serious questions, Why are you proselytizing on 4chan? Are you being paid to do this? You do know that you are wasting your time right?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:53:41 2011 No.3448617 >>3448585 >my discernment is not perfect yeah, clearly but w/e, thanks for your concern. now stop posting non-science on /sci/. there are better ways to get your message across

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:54:41 2011 No.3448624

You guys still at it? LMAO.. I'm starting to believe at least one of you really is a Christian. Okay... here you go. Clement of Rome said that the Apostle Peter himself ordained Clement. and all the other 'Church Fathers' ... Iranaeus, Polycarp, etc. ... tell the same story. Now either the Bible says what they say it says, or the are lying... and since they are the ones who picked which books should be included in the New Testament... you are up Shit Creek if you dispute.... QED.... go be a Christian that believes in Apostolic Succession... or STFU... I know your are full of shit trying to 'decode' the Bible on your own.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:55:41 2011 No.3448628 You guys, we could put a stop to this shit if we got people into mod positions with a silent understanding to ban all religious people on the board. I understand it's an unpopular option but it's also the only lasting solution.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:55:41 2011 No.3448629

>>3448608
the oldest man-made records are not 6000 years old; more like 4000-4500 years old. if one of those references something that happened 10,000 years prior, that is not evidence. it is only a claim.

the chinese were notorious for that, trying to pin dynasties back thousands of years prior to the actual written record.

a 3,500 year old document claiming something 10,000 years old is only evidence of something 3,500 years old.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:56:41 2011 No.3448631 >>3448586 >nearly all people will burn in hell for all eternity >BUT I'M GOING TO HEAVEN I'M SURE OF IT YUP

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:56:41 2011 No.3448634 >>3448611 i do what i'm told, and i'm not getting paid (on earth) for it

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:57:41 2011 No.3448637 >>3448611 Spreading the word of The Lord is a major part of Christianity. The uneducated must be saved from their ignorance before it condemns them for eternity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:58:41 2011 No.3448642 >>3448629 >Claims one set of writings with some physical evidence to support it is less valid than another set of writings with jack shit supporting evidence.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:59:41 2011 No.3448643 >>3448624 the roman catholic church is mystery babylon, the great whore ask me if i believe in kiddy raping too

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:59:41 2011 No.3448644 >>3448628 does it kill you that people would rather post in a religious brawl than in a homework thread?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 14:59:41 2011 No.3448645 >>3448629 Buddhism is from india, not from China

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:01:41 2011 No.3448652

>>3448631
i am indeed sure of it; my hope is in Jesus Christ, and that hope is sure

narrow is the path to heaven, and few find it; broad is the way to destruction, and many find it.

again, not for nothing, but the bible has had all of this information in it for thousands of years, and you have no excuse for being this ignorant

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:03:41 2011 No.3448660

>>3448642
nowhere did i say the scriptures were older than 6000 years; another poster claimed that, and i refuted it.

think about it logically. if i wrote a book and said i traced my ancestors back 20,000 years, and that book is dug up 3,000 years in the future, is that really evidence that men were recording their lineage 23,000 years ago?

yeah, it doesn't hold up

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:04:41 2011 No.3448662 >>3448637 How can a god condemn people because of ignorance? Something they don't know, something they couldn't know. Don't you understand that it's not fair at all, it's insane, even.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:04:41 2011 No.3448667 >>3448652 if the path to righteousness is so small then why is Christianity so big?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:05:41 2011 No.3448672 This will keep on happening until we cleanse this board of christians. It's not exactly the moral high road, but it must be done or this board will continue descending into a vortex of shit.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:06:41 2011 No.3448681

>>3448662
unless said God wrote His laws on every human heart, and gave every man a conscience

yup, lacking that, it would be insane.

but where does this ignorance come from? it comes from an ancestor turning his back to the truth, and believing in the lies. Jesus said that He would prune any branch that did not bear fruit, and that branch would wither and die.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:08:41 2011 No.3448686 >>3448667 it's big? lol figure 12,000,000,000 people have been born, and 6,000,000,000 people are alive. what fraction of those people will be in heaven? i don't know, but i do know it is less than 50%

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:08:41 2011 No.3448690 >>3448672 ah, yes, the genocide solution. so popular amongst atheists

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:08:41 2011 No.3448691 >>3448643 I didn't say 'Roman Catholic'... I said Apostolic Succession... Want to trot out some Landmarkism or 'Church in the Wilderness' horseshit... face it.. you just have a Ideas of Reference problem.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:09:41 2011 No.3448695 >>3448681 So, because of what an asshole did aeons ago, his descendants have to pay a price for being innocent (not knowing)? You're insane. You hate humanity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:09:41 2011 No.3448702 >>3448690 >>ah, yes, the genocide solution. so popular amongst atheists Well, why do you keep making it necessary?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:10:41 2011 No.3448706 >>3448681 >Jesus said that He would prune any branch that did not bear fruit, and that branch would wither and die. mass killing, eternal suffering >>3448690 >ah, yes, the genocide solution. so popular amongst atheists hahahaha

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:10:41 2011 No.3448708

>>3448691
i can honestly say i have no idea what you are saying right now, but if you think for one second that i would put the Word of God second to any man written document, you are mistaken

and if you think the bible can only be explained to me by another man, a sinner, you are also mistaken; the bible can only be explained through the understanding that comes from the Holy Spirit

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:11:41 2011 No.3448711 >>3448690 Since when is a ban equivalent to murder?

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:12:41 2011 No.3448714

>>3448695
no man is innocent. if any man is ignorant of salvation, he is condemned not by his ignorance, but because he dies in his own sins, not believing in the Son of God as His redeemer.

you don't get thrown into Hell because you are ignorant; you get thrown into Hell because you are a sinner, and deserve it. and choose it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:12:41 2011 No.3448718 >>3448702 because we are the salt and light of the world, and men prefer darkness

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:13:41 2011 No.3448722 File: 86 KB, 547x649, christiansbelievesoul.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3448714 Actually, nobody gets thrown into hell. No afterlife exists, as souls don't exist. You think with your brain, not a ghost that lives in your brain.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:14:41 2011 No.3448725 >>3448706 i see your humor, and raise you one awareness men do not have the right to kill God has the right to kill, and judge. therefore, fear not a man who can only kill you; fear God, who can kill you and throw your soul into Hell

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:15:41 2011 No.3448730 Just pitchin' the "remove all christians" option again. It would clean up this board overnight. Give it some thought.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:16:41 2011 No.3448733

>>3448686
1/3 of the people alive agree in the same thing that is pretty large.
Most of America is Christian yet do you honestly think every Christian in America will get to heaven? Have you even looked at one? They are so arrogant that they think they will live forever because they agree with what other people believe. They continue to lie, cheat, steal, and even murder, but they think that's okay to do because they can say 'sorry' every Sunday then go back to doing the same thing. They even have the audacity to sit there and whisper to themselves what wishes they want granted and expect them to come true instead of doing it themselves.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:16:41 2011 No.3448735 >>3448711 you have heard "thou shalt not murder". i say to you, that if you call a man a fool, or are angry at him for no reason, you have violated this law, and are guilty of murder. the spirit is the same, and the spirit matters

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:16:41 2011 No.3448739

>>3448714
Why are we sinners?
I thought God made un in its own image? ( I know, that's a classic at religious class) So let's jump to the next logical question :
If he created us, why did he created us imperfect in our essence? Why can't he just make us better, like a god could just do ?
Free will huh? (I won't start to tray and explain you why free will is an illusion, bec ause even most atheists will not WANT to understand it .)
Why did he gave us something that made us BY default, doomed to eternal suffering. Why didn't just he made us all nice and exactly like he expects us to be?

You know that this is wrong.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:17:41 2011 No.3448748

>>3448722
Stating it like this would imply we have disproved the existence of souls or an afterlife. That's not possible because those are inherently unfalsifiable hypotheses. It's better to say that there is no evidence which indicates the existence of souls or an afterlife. Nuance bro. Nuance.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:18:41 2011 No.3448750 >>3448722 you say this with no evidence, no proof, no reason, and without understanding you're wrong

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:20:41 2011 No.3448762 >>3448708 in other words.. you read the Bible.. and GOD tells you... DIRECTLY what it said.... isn't that convenient... because I just read the Bible... and God told me you are wrong......

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:21:41 2011 No.3448763

>>3448748

>>Stating it like this would imply we have disproved the existence of souls or an afterlife. That's not possible because those are inherently unfalsifiable hypotheses. It's better to say that there is no evidence which indicates the existence of souls or an afterlife. Nuance bro. Nuance.

It *used* to be unfalsifiable, like saying "the sun is made from molten zinc" was unfalsifiable until the advent of the mass spectrometer. It has become falsifiable *indirectly* in recent years because of what we've been able to discover about how the brain works. That falsifies any afterlife which requires memories, emotions and so on to be something separate from the brain which can leave it upon death.

This doesn't prove heaven and hell, the places, don't exist. Just that they would be pointless as there are no souls to occupy either. It knocks out one of the supporting pillars under the idea rather than the idea itself.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:27:41 2011 No.3448788

>>3448763
>in recent years because of what we've been able to discover about how the brain works.
Funny you should say that. I'm a neuroscientist. It can still be hypothesized that the soul is something which does not exist in physical reality, but in a separate world, somehow magically beyond the realm of materialism, and thus unreachable by material means. In this sense the brain would only act as a translator between this hypothetical magical unreachable world and the material one. Dualism cannot be disproved. It's a superfluous explanation, I agree on that. There is no reason whatsoever to think there is anything other than the material world, but this in itself does not disprove the existence of a magical dualistic one.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:35:41 2011 No.3448827
File: 47 KB, 719x720, 1309561817611.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

If god is fair and just, why does he create flawed beings, and then blame them for being flawed?

If god is omnipotent, how can free will exist given he knows in advance the choices his flawed creations are going to make?

If intelligent life requires a designer, and god is intelligent life, then why doesn't god require a designer?

If personal experiences of god are evidence for god, then why aren't alien abductees' experiences evidence for aliens?

If evidence is not required to claim god exists, then why can't I claim without evidence that god does not exist?

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:37:41 2011 No.3448841

>>3448788

>>Funny you should say that. I'm a neuroscientist.

Right. Then so am I.

>>It can still be hypothesized that the soul is something which does not exist in physical reality, but in a separate world, somehow magically beyond the realm of materialism, and thus unreachable by material means. In this sense the brain would only act as a translator between this hypothetical magical unreachable world and the material one.

Except that we can prove things like emotion and memory are local.

>>Dualism cannot be disproved. It's a superfluous explanation, I agree on that. There is no reason whatsoever to think there is anything other than the material world, but this in itself does not disprove the existence of a magical dualistic one.

Disagree, it has been disproven to any reasonable person's satisfaction.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:38:41 2011 No.3448844 Religion is a specific case of mental illness.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:44:41 2011 No.3448869

>>3448841
>Right. Then so am I.
Fine, then don't believe me. It really doesn't matter anyway.
>Except that we can prove things like emotion and memory are local.
Right, but that does not contradict what I just claimed. We can show that neural architecture is causally involved in the emergence of consciousness for instance, but that hasn't brought us closer to solving the hard problem of consciousness. That is fundamentally a philosophical issue. We can show which structures mediate the emergence of subjective awareness, but <span class="math">how[/spoiler] they do so is as of yet unanswered. And I don't mean a strict mechanistic how, I'm referring to qualia.
>Disagree, it has been disproven to any reasonable person's satisfaction.
Don't you understand the principle of falsification? Lets say I hypothesize a little green gnome lives inside your brain. This gnome is very smart however. Every time we look at it, it disappears just before we see it. How would you go about trying to disprove its existence?

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:48:41 2011 No.3448890

>>3448827
Flawed is a matter of opinion. I happen to think free will is a beautiful schematic.

Free will is very curious. What constitutes free will? If only one being in the universe knows what's going to happen, does that disprove free will? From a scientific standpoint, if we understood the human mind in its entirety and could hook up some electrodes and weigh all the things involved in the decision making process, could we then predict a person's every thought? Would that prove we're just a series of reactions? (At this point I think my ADHD is kicking in and I'm rambling. Sorry)

That's a reallyyyy old argument. The unmoved mover thing. The mormons think they know the answer to this question. Haha.

Why aren't they?

I think evidence IS required to claim god exists.
I'm fairly certain this post was pointless. I ramble so much.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:51:41 2011 No.3448904

>>3448869
I like your gnome example, mainly because that's how matter tends to behave. It changes the way it functions based on whether or not it's being observed, like we're part of some cosmic simulation and the processor frees up RAM when no sentient beings are interacting with matter. We live in a crazy place.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:52:41 2011 No.3448908

>>3448869

>>Right, but that does not contradict what I just claimed.

Yes it does.

>We can show that neural architecture is causally involved in the emergence of consciousness for instance, but that hasn't brought us closer to solving the hard problem of consciousness.

Yes it has.

>That is fundamentally a philosophical issue.

No it isn't.

>We can show which structures mediate the emergence of subjective awareness, but how they do so is as of yet unanswered.

That's a bit like if a few chimps were struggling to understand how cars work, and although they knew gasoline had something to do with it they couldn't be certain what, and therefore the rest of the chimps who believe ancestral spirits cause the engine to work are on even ground.

>And I don't mean a strict mechanistic how, I'm referring to qualia.

Qualia is completely consistent with a materialist model of the brain. We should *expect* experience to be subjective and separate because brains themselves are physically distinct and differ from one another morphologically and genetically.

>Don't you understand the principle of falsification?

I do. And I addressed that objection, you just didn't understand it. See below:

>>Lets say I hypothesize a little green gnome lives inside your brain. This gnome is very smart however. Every time we look at it, it disappears just before we see it. How would you go about trying to disprove its existence?

That's not analogous. It would be analogous if the green gnome uses a specific physics principle to achieve invisibility which is later discredited. Souls DO entail testable claims about the natural world, specifically our brains.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:53:41 2011 No.3448914

>>3448869 someone else here. you're not looking at the burden of proof here.

YOU have to present evidence that a god exists as the one making a claim. the bible was a book writen in the council of nikea during the time of the roman empire. the torah before then. they do not constitute adequate proof. give us something we can measure and test. THAT is a legitimate argument. nothing i've seen here has those traits.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:53:41 2011 No.3448916 >>3448904 >I like your gnome example, mainly because that's how matter tends to behave. The parallel was unintentional, but interesting now that you mention it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:56:41 2011 No.3448932 >>3448890 protip: there is no free will

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 15:57:41 2011 No.3448936

>>3448904
>It changes the way it functions based on whether or not it's being observed,

You say that like it's anything special ...

>like we're part of some cosmic simulation and the processor frees up RAM when no sentient beings are interacting with matter.

Wow! ok ... now.. you've watched/read too much pop-sci stuff. Here's why :

Observation = sending photons or electrons in order to see or to "scan" (wich is the same thing really)

When you send photons or electrons on a particle that is at the same scale it turns into a mess :
picture yourself in a dark room, can't see a thing. You have to determine the positions and directions of ten pool balls constantly moving on the ground. Your tools: your eyes and [as much as you need] number of glow in the dark pool sized balls.

Now, each time you throw a ball that will collide with one of the invisible moving pool balls, you'll be able to see the glow in the dark ball collide on something, hence you will know the position of one ball in a T instant but , the collision will alter the course of the particle, its angular momentum as well etc etc.. hence: when you observe it, you disturb it... (Heisenberg's uncertainty principle )

That's what happens with optical and electronical microscopes when you try to use them at these extreme scales .

Basically : it's just the expression of the limit of our observational ability... an expression, an abstract, a concept.

We just don't know yet (emphasize on "yet")

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:04:11 2011 No.3448966 File: 8 KB, 240x180, george.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >2011 >posting anti-christian youtube videos >not posting 43alley vids I seriously hope you guys don't do this.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:04:41 2011 No.3448970

>>3448908
>Yes it does.
>Yes it has.
>No it isn't.
At least try to construct some form of argument instead of making claims. The hard problem of consciousness is a philosophical one. The very word 'hard' was chosen to imply this. Read the following and you'll see why.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364661306002373
If you don't have access I'll rapidshare the article.
>That's a bit like if a few chimps were struggling to understand how cars work, and although they knew gasoline had something to do with it they couldn't be certain what, and therefore the rest of the chimps who believe ancestral spirits cause the engine to work are on even ground.
Didn't I just say I wasn't referring to a mechanistic how?
>Qualia is completely consistent with a materialist model of the brain.
The same can be said for a dualistic model of subjective experience.
>That's not analogous. It would be analogous if the green gnome uses a specific physics principle to achieve invisibility which is later discredited. Souls DO entail testable claims about the natural world, specifically our brains.
That's the beauty of it. 'Soul', like a little green gnome, can mean whatever the fuck you want it to mean. It doesn't necessarily interact with the physical world. Because it is a hypothetical construct. I say the gnome uses magic to become invisible. That cannot be disproved.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:10:41 2011 No.3448994

>>3448970
And what does the gnome in the brain do? Where its influence can be seen ? (knowing we can explain tons of stuff that are responsible for tons of other "effects")
Is the gnome hypothesis needed? Is this hypothesis supported in any way?

"No? So , fuck the gnome, back to serious science "

That's reality, not a philosophical dead end

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:15:41 2011 No.3449022
File: 1.19 MB, 2560x1600, 1306688925719.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3448890
>Flawed is a matter of opinion. I happen to think free will is a beautiful schematic.

How does this excuse the creator for blaming his creations and not accepting responsibility for his creations' actions? It's like saying you're not responsible for anything your child does. If your child goes off and murders someone else's family , wouldn't you feel responsible? Why is god exempt from this responsibility?

>What constitutes free will?

The inability of others to predict your choices.

>If only one being in the universe knows what's going to happen, does that disprove free will?

If he's the creator of everything, then yes. Because he has brought it into existence knowing what the outcome would be. Also, being able to predict everything means everything is deterministic, in which case there can be no free will.

>From a scientific standpoint, if we understood the human mind in its entirety and could hook up some electrodes and weigh all the things involved in the decision making process, could we then predict a person's every thought?

Probably not due to Heisenberg's uncertainty principles. Uncertainty is the only thing protecting free will. Even if my decisions have a random unpredictable element to them, this doesn't stop me from exclusively knowing the choices I'm going to make.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:15:41 2011 No.3449024

>>3448994
>And what does the gnome in the brain do?
Magic.
>Where its influence can be seen ?
Nowhere. I just believe it is there.
>Is the gnome hypothesis needed? Is this hypothesis supported in any way?
>"No? So , fuck the gnome, back to serious science "
That's exactly what I was arguing for. The gnome isn't needed to explain the mind. It's a superfluous explanation. It cannot be disproved however, and therefore we strictly cannot say it doesn't exist, only that there is no reason to believe it exists. It has no place within scientific inquiry. Just like the soul.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:17:41 2011 No.3449031

>>3448970

>>At least try to construct some form of argument instead of making claims.

They're not claims, they're facts. When you said:

>We can show that neural architecture is causally involved in the emergence of consciousness for instance, but that hasn't brought us closer to solving the hard problem of consciousness.

It's self evidently untrue. If we can show that neural architecture is causally involved in the emergence of consciousness, it absolutely is a step closer to solving the hard problem of consciousness. It's debatable how big that step is but to claim it represents zero progress whatsoever is plainly untrue.

>The hard problem of consciousness is a philosophical one. The very word 'hard' was chosen to imply this. Read the following and you'll see why.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364661306002373
If you don't have access I'll rapidshare the article.

I don't recognize the validity of philosophy. Nor do I accept that a problem is insoluble because philosophers call it "the hard problem".

Actual neuroscientists, yourself excluded, don't consider it insoluble:

http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/2004_09_27_newsweek.html

Read that before we continue.

>>That's the beauty of it. 'Soul', like a little green gnome, can mean whatever the fuck you want it to mean. It doesn't necessarily interact with the physical world.

No it can't or it stops being a soul. Conceptually, a soul must interact with the physical environment because *we* are physical. If souls control our bodies, there is necessary interaction there.

You're playing with possible definitions of a soul nobody believes in and pretending that 99.99999% of the people in the world who believe in souls don't have the same basic definition when they obviously do.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:27:41 2011 No.3449066

>>3449031
>I don't recognize the validity of philosophy. Nor do I accept that a problem is insoluble because philosophers call it "the hard problem".
>Actual neuroscientists, yourself excluded, don't consider it insoluble:
So here we are. Your willful persistence is hindering the discussion. You simply cannot or will not see the difference between constructing a neural correlate of consciousness, or a causal relation between neural dynamics and consciousness, and the how of emergence of subjective experience. There is a difference there, one which every neuroscientist recognizes. For the record, I never said the hard problem of consciousness is an unsolvable problem. I merely pointed out that it leaves wiggle room for unnecessary hypothetical constructs.
>http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/2004_09_27_newsweek.html
I read it. Arguing for materialism, something I agree with, is not the same as disproving dualism. You have a good day now. I'm off.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:31:41 2011 No.3449085

>>3448739
i know no such thing

i only know that given the opportunity to disobey God, and believe satan, Adam and Eve sinned. and fell from grace.

but the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil; that we still have today. that is what makes you look at science.

in the universe God created, God made the rules. and by His nature, He is just and holy. He therefore created a universe which, in the end, will produce just and holy creations, capable of spending eternity with Him.

if there was another way to do it; another way that would have spared sending Jesus down to die for our sins, He would have taken it.

He knew the end from the beginning, but lacking His knowledge, lacking what He knows, we can only do the best we can with what He's given us.

and He made us out of dirt.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:31:41 2011 No.3449086

>>3449066

>So here we are. Your willful persistence is hindering the discussion.

I don't think persistence means what you think it means.

>You simply cannot or will not see the difference between constructing a neural correlate of consciousness, or a causal relation between neural dynamics and consciousness, and the how of emergence of subjective experience.

And how the emergence of subjective experience....? Do you plan to finish that sentence? I understand what you've said. What I'm saying is that it's entirely reasonable to conclude that what we're studying is in fact consciousness, not just a 'neural correlate'. The only motivation to conclude that would be a desire to avoid the materialist model.

>There is a difference there, one which every neuroscientist recognizes. For the record, I never said the hard problem of consciousness is an unsolvable problem. I merely pointed out that it leaves wiggle room for unnecessary hypothetical constructs.

If you're wildly unreasonable about it and comfortable with making what everyone can tell are transparent excuses, sure. But it's farther than most theists are willing to stick their necks out.

>I read it. Arguing for materialism, something I agree with, is not the same as disproving dualism. You have a good day now. I'm off.

Don't play dumb. It explicitly says that the mind is what the brain does. And this is from one of the foremost scientists in the field. You're leaving now because you see the writing on the wall.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:32:41 2011 No.3449090 >>3448763 so, given a little understanding about how the brain works, you bravely assert there is no such thing as a soul? what vanity! what foolishness! what arrogance!

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:36:41 2011 No.3449107

>>3448827
how is it you do not know the answers to these questions?

>If god is fair and just, why does he create flawed beings, and then blame them for being flawed?
He created good beings, not flawed beings. He created beings capable of loving Him of their own volition. In doing so, He created beings that could (and did) turn on Him.

>If god is omnipotent, how can free will exist given he knows in advance the choices his flawed creations are going to make?
what man among you doesn't count the cost of building a tower, to determine whether or not he has enough money to finish it? knowing the end from the beginning, God, in His economy, went forward.

>If intelligent life requires a designer, and god is intelligent life, then why doesn't god require a designer?
God is not a created being. No man will truly understand God until he comes face to face with God, after being translated from mortal flesh, for to see God is to die.

>If personal experiences of god are evidence for god, then why aren't alien abductees' experiences evidence for aliens?
they are. God, angels, and demons, are all alien life to humans. and one of those seeks to deceive.

If evidence is not required to claim god exists, then why can't I claim without evidence that god does not exist?
you can do that; you can blind yourself to the eyewitness historical account of Jesus Christ walking out of His grave three days after He was killed. you can do that and die.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:36:41 2011 No.3449113

>>3449090

>>so, given a little understanding about how the brain works, you bravely assert there is no such thing as a soul?

I dispute that it's just "a little", and yes, it proves that there's no such thing as a soul.

>what vanity! what foolishness! what arrogance!

Cool theatrics.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:36:41 2011 No.3449114 >>3448844 ....if all religions are false, your conclusion might be accurate.

>>	rob the emulator !W8xLejgnCw Mon Jul 25 16:39:41 2011 No.3449125 >>3449113 >I dispute that it's just "a little", and yes, it proves that there's no such thing as a soul. So explain to me how neural activity leads to consciousness.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:40:41 2011 No.3449128 >>3448914 no, that bit was given by God to Moses before the birth of Christ your biblical education is sorely lacking

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:43:41 2011 No.3449138

>>3449022
Here is a wonderful garden I made for you, full of good things to eat. just don't eat from that one tree, or you will surely die.

[eats from tree]

now you must die

blame? blame Adam and Eve for their own fall. blame satan for deceiving Eve (and not Adam).

but to blame God?

on what basis?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:45:41 2011 No.3449155 >>3449113 >it proves that there's no such thing as a soul. Can't prove a nagative you moron.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:48:41 2011 No.3449176

>>3449107
>He created good beings, not flawed beings. He created beings capable of loving Him of their own volition. In doing so, He created beings that could (and did) turn on Him.
If he created them capable of being/doing evil, then they ARE flawed by definition

>what man among you doesn't count the cost of building a tower, to determine whether or not he has enough money to finish it? knowing the end from the beginning, God, in His economy, went forward.
that analagy isn't synonymous in any way

>God is not a created being. No man will truly understand God until he comes face to face with God, after being translated from mortal flesh, for to see God is to die.
applying falsifiable reason to God works in two directions. If i, as a non beleiver, cannot understand god, then enither can you. As far as either of us know he could be a malicious being, which logical evidence suggests should he exist

>they are. God, angels, and demons, are all alien life to humans. and one of those seeks to deceive.
The deciever ofcause being a creation of God, odd that a perfect being could create imperfection. logical fallacies, logical fallacies everywhere
>If evidence is not required to claim god exists, then why can't I claim without evidence that god does not exist?
you can do that; you can blind yourself to the eyewitness historical account of Jesus Christ walking out of His grave three days after He was killed. you can do that and die.
burden of proof derp

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:53:41 2011 No.3449214

>>3449176
you keep insisting that God created Adam and Eve flawed.

you say the proof of that is because Adam and Eve sinned against God

and you blame God

why?

Jesus, a man, lived a sinless life. Jesus resisted temptation after a 40 day fast in a desert. Jesus would never have eaten the forbidden fruit.

Jesus was perfect, and because He was perfect, He could and did pay the price for all of humanity's sins.

Just as mankind was doomed by the first Adam's sin, so was mankind saved by the second Adam's sacrifice.

believe, and you will live.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 16:58:41 2011 No.3449242

>>3449125
That's simple. Consciousness is a very overrated phenomenon. All it needs in order to arise is a set of sensory organs (the more, the better), some limbs (the more complex the better) and a large brain for computational power.

The rest is delusion. Consciousness isn't something incredible, it's hard to figure out because it's an illusion and we are this illusion, personnaly.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:00:41 2011 No.3449257 >>3449138 He shouldn't have put a forbidden thing onto the garden, what a ..what? a sadist? a dumbfuck? He is responsible. He could have avoided it, instead, he directly made it possible.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:00:41 2011 No.3449261

>>3449176
allow me to be more clear. you stated that God did wrong in creating mankind with a "flaw". and, knowing the end from the beginning, God knows all of the names of all of the people that are going to find their way to heaven. likewise, He knows the names of all of the people that are going to choose to go to Hell.

knowing that, from before He laid the foundations of the earth, He chose to go forward with creation, knowing that He would have to send His Son to die a disgraceful and horrible death.

but He went forward. in His economy, creating mankind, and all of creation, was profitable. He counted the cost and the benefit, and decided it was worth it.

He didn't run out of money half-way through; He spent His Son's blood, and redeemed all of creation.

that's the "analogy"

>>	robe the emulator !W8xLejgnCw Mon Jul 25 17:01:41 2011 No.3449267 >>3449242 Right, you've identified what is needed (limbs, really?). Now how does consciousness emerge? What neural process specifically is responsible?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:02:41 2011 No.3449269 >>3449261 Seems like your creator is really helpless, not that powerful... 2nd rate god.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:02:41 2011 No.3449271 File: 4 KB, 131x105, trollface.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3449214 5/10 Yeah, you're faking this Christian act way too hard. You almost had me with the big spacing between each line like a dramatic old woman, there.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:03:41 2011 No.3449277

>>3449257
let's see. God doesn't put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden; mankind never eats of the tree; mankind sins in another way; mankind is doomed to a lifetime of ignorance without any knowledge to rely on.

better yet, you're in the Garden of Eden. do you think you would do "better" than Adam?

when are you going to open your mind to the possibility that all things work together for good, to those who love God? and when are you going to realize that being an enemy of God is useless?

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:06:41 2011 No.3449301

>>3449269
helpless? or restrained?

God is Love, and all that goes with Love; patient, kind, understanding, long-suffering, gentle; etc.

God is also holy and just, and all that goes with that. sin and God are completely incompatible; they cannot exist together. so God created a place outside the universe where all the sin and evil will be, forever. this place, Hell, the lake of fire, was created for the devil and the devil's followers.

in that Hell, you will not think God is Love, but you will know that He is just and holy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:10:41 2011 No.3449320 >>3449271 you cannot know the truth of the Spirit of God without the Spirit of God showing you the truth i'm not trying; not pretending; not trolling but really, at times, it is like explaining purple to helen keller

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:12:41 2011 No.3449334

>>3449267
limbs= mechanical operating devices (arms, hands, foot, beak)
Simple.
You have to be sure to understand how molecules formed , why they did , how life ermeged from this and how the logical ways of "surviving" (to persist ) and to breed is engraved deep down in the most basic/ancient/old layer of the brain . This, combined with tons of computational power, memory space, sensitive probes (eyes, nerves, ears, equilibrium, etc) will construct tons of more complex programming in order to be able to keep on persisting and reproduce (species remains persistant). It took millions, billions of years to go from unicellular cell to "conscious" human beings.
Consciousness is nothing like the wishful abstract that is a soul.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:16:41 2011 No.3449355 >>3449334 the universe is not old enough for the simplest of invertebrates to have mutated from a single cell and that single cell could not have come from any known process where life comes from non-life evolution is a lie

>>	robe the emulator !W8xLejgnCw Mon Jul 25 17:17:41 2011 No.3449357 >>3449334 That doesn't answer the question. You obviously know nothing about the brain. Case closed.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:20:41 2011 No.3449373

>>3449125

>So explain to me how neural activity leads to consciousness.

The coordinated interplay between the various portions of the brain, each of which we can prove is responsible for some aspect of consciousness. Like the various parts of a computer cooperating to execute a program.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:21:41 2011 No.3449384 >>3449355 /sci/ has no good trolls.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:23:41 2011 No.3449391

>>3449384
carl sagan and friends decided that the universe was too young for life to exist anywhere but on earth

but they never turned that analysis towards earth itself and realized that, by chance, we couldn't exist either

there is no chance that we exist. God made us. we exist.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:24:41 2011 No.3449394 >>3449373 gestalt would like a word with you

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:24:41 2011 No.3449396 >>3449391 >>carl sagan and friends decided that the universe was too young for life to exist anywhere but on earth Carl Sagan never said this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:25:41 2011 No.3449401 >>3449396 did you hear him never say it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:26:41 2011 No.3449411 File: 26 KB, 369x314, monty_python_witch-701441.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3449277 The apple made sin possible. Knowledge is responsible. Without this apple, we would still be innocent. God is responsible for this. Kill god !!

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:28:41 2011 No.3449416

There is no chance God exists.

Therefore we can attest humans invented him as an excuse/placeholder before we had any facts.

You only believe in God because you're too dumb for science and hard facts. Shut the fuck up and go play with your hammer and blocks.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:28:41 2011 No.3449420 >>3449357 And you obviously don't know shit about the human mind.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:30:41 2011 No.3449431 >>3449411 um, we did kill God

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:31:41 2011 No.3449434 >>3449416 that is correct. there is no chance that God exists. there is only a certainty that God exists.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:31:41 2011 No.3449436 File: 98 KB, 1562x1315, 1279863329766.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >realization >"there are no christian in /sci/ and there never were" >mfw

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:33:41 2011 No.3449443 File: 29 KB, 240x320, 1292563772472.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3449434 >certainty >no proof Enjoy your undynamic knowledge engine, autismo.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:34:41 2011 No.3449445 >>3449420 and you are confused between the brain, the mind, consciousness, and the soul

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:35:41 2011 No.3449455
File: 102 KB, 525x412, inthemiddle.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

KILL GOD !!! DEATH TO THE MONSTER!! KILL GOD !!
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KILL GOD !!! DEATH TO THE MONSTER!! KILL GOD !!
KILL GOD !!! DEATH TO THE MONSTER!! KILL GOD !!
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KILL GOD !!! DEATH TO THE MONSTER!! KILL GOD !!
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KILL GOD !!! DEATH TO THE MONSTER!! KILL GOD !!
KILL GOD !!! DEATH TO THE MONSTER!! KILL GOD !!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:35:41 2011 No.3449456 >>3449443 you believing or not in a certainty has no effect on the certainty God exists whether i believe in Him, whether you believe in Him, or whether neither of us were ever born if you have problems with God, you have problems with reality

>>	robe the emulator !W8xLejgnCw Mon Jul 25 17:36:41 2011 No.3449461 >>3449373 What parts of the brain? Which parts of consciousness? How do they interplay and how does this interplay lead to consciousness? Stop beating around the bush and be concrete.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:37:41 2011 No.3449468 >>3449445 Not at all. There is nothing such a soul. The mind and conscioussness are obviously the same thing. The brain generated the mind/consciousness

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:38:41 2011 No.3449469 >>3449455 uh, we did He rose from His grave, to live forevermore at the right hand of God He's alive--hallelujah, He's alive!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:38:41 2011 No.3449472 >>3449431 I mean kill him really, erase "his" ... ITs fucking face out of reality,

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:39:41 2011 No.3449473 >>3449468 Once we get physical brain simulation working, we can prove it too. If a simulation that only takes atoms into account works, then there's nothing vital missing, and minds are the dynamics produced by brains.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:39:41 2011 No.3449474 >>3449469 I want to speak to him. Can you indicate me his phone number or an office where I could find him? Please.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:40:41 2011 No.3449476 >>3449468 bible disagrees with you Keyword Search results:soul Results 251-275 of 341 can i assume english is not your first language?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:40:41 2011 No.3449477 >>3449472 Schizoid detected

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:41:41 2011 No.3449481 >>3449473 I agree. We are just a functional device destined to help our genes persist trough time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:41:41 2011 No.3449482 >>3449472 we, er, really did kill Him. and for three days, He really was dead. but then He arose, defeating death, and the grave, so that you could live with Him in heaven forever. and all you have to do is believe...

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:42:41 2011 No.3449489

>>3449474
He is not so hard of hearing that He cannot hear you; nor is His hand shortened that He cannot reach you.

repent of your sins and ask Him for forgiveness; He is faithful and just, and will forgive you your sins. all of them. wiped clean.

you won't have to bear them anymore, and you won't have to pay for them. you will receive a pardon, as i have received a pardon.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:42:41 2011 No.3449493 >>3449482 We will kill god, definatly, he will never rise from the grave again, never, ever. Dead. Out of existence, only a rumor. Who are we? We are Time and we are Intelligence.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:43:41 2011 No.3449501 >>3449473 ah, so you are making certain conclusions based on evidence you know will show up in the future faith is a bitch, isn't it?

>>	robe the emulator !W8xLejgnCw Mon Jul 25 17:50:41 2011 No.3449535 >>3449461 Really? No one has an answer? For materialistic atheists you sure do have a lot of faith without the knowledge to back up this certainly in opinion. Disclaimer: I'm not a theist. I don't believe in souls.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:50:41 2011 No.3449542 >>3449125 >So explain to me how neural activity leads to consciousness. Neural activity = consciousness, doofus. What you said is like saying "How does sitting on a bike and pedaling lead to riding a bike?"

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:51:41 2011 No.3449549

>>3449489
I have never sinned, for I do not recognize this word has bearing a legitimate meaning.
I don't live in your little world made of papier maché and sorry excuses for ignorance..
My world is gigantic, bigger than how you will ever be able to try and imagine your god.
My world is made of trillions of trillions of interactions each pico-seconds everywhere in its space. My world is made of billions and billions years of actions and reactions, causality. My world is made of stars and DNA and new discoveries every day, my world is dynamic, not predictible (for now), amazing.
And my world does not require a god.
Your god isn't welcome here.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:53:41 2011 No.3449554 >>3449476 I don't care about your old book. I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to the other guy who isn't intoxicated by your ridiculous mythology.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:55:41 2011 No.3449562 >>3449535 Please, shut up. You aren't interesting.

>>	robe the emulator !W8xLejgnCw Mon Jul 25 17:55:41 2011 No.3449567 >>3449542 >Neural activity = consciousness, doofus. So a neuron firing in a petri dish is conscious? That's a pretty bold claim. How would you explain the unconscious mind? Is that not the result of neural activity?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:57:41 2011 No.3449573 >>3449456 but since god probably doesnt exist there is no problem.

>>	robe the emulator !W8xLejgnCw Mon Jul 25 17:58:41 2011 No.3449576 File: 68 KB, 400x225, 1274953939367.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3449562

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:58:41 2011 No.3449579 >>3449493 well, of Time there will be no more, and as to mankind's intelligence, erm, it is foolishness to God so, no. we don't "win" in a war with God

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 17:59:41 2011 No.3449582

>>3449567
No you dumbass. Is a wheel a car? It is only a part, a piece, right?
Wait..is a car really a thing? Or is it only the name we gave to a sum of separate pieces that achieve a particular objective (transporting stuff) ?
See where I'm drifting to? Consciousness is the same thing as a car.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:01:41 2011 No.3449587 >>3449579 Yep. We're winning . The more time goes, the less deists there is on the face of planet earth. I think we can call it a victory in the making.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:02:41 2011 No.3449593

>>3449549
my God actually does all those interactions, and an infinite number more.

you have sinned. you have put other false gods before God. we don't need to leave the first commandment to see that you have sinned, and by breaking even the smallest part of the law, you have broken the entire law.

but even before proving that you have sinned, even once, you already stand condemned by not believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. by your disbelief, you already merit Hell.

and that universe you are so fond of? it is slated for complete destruction. all of the elements will melt with fervent heat as it explodes. all of it. wiped out.

and on to Heaven 2.0 and Earth 2.0 we will go, those believers, to be with Him forever.

i suggest you rethink your eternal salvation plan and start worshipping the Creator, not His creation

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:02:41 2011 No.3449594 >>3449579 >>well, of Time there will be no more, and as to mankind's intelligence, erm, it is foolishness to God But god is a product of man's brain in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:03:41 2011 No.3449598 >>3449554 really? the guy that slammed you for being an idiot? you like him better than the guy trying to get you saved? lol

>>	robe the emulator !W8xLejgnCw Mon Jul 25 18:03:41 2011 No.3449599 >>3449582 Answer the question directly instead of calling me a dumbass and using moronic analogies. >How would you explain the unconscious mind? Oh, that's right, you can't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:04:41 2011 No.3449602 >>3449593 No he doesn't. He's just there, doing nothing . Aking people to do stupid shit in his name, being megalomaniac .

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:04:41 2011 No.3449604 >>3449587 ah, in the Charlie Sheen sense of "WINNING!" i assume

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:05:41 2011 No.3449606 >>3449599 Yep, I can, subroutines. Now fuck off, dumbass.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:06:41 2011 No.3449612 >>3449602 if all the things Jesus were doing right now were written down, the earth itself would not hold all of the volumes. protip: there is no "natural" protip: God is infinite

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:08:41 2011 No.3449620 >>3449612 >knows what Jesus is doing right now.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:08:41 2011 No.3449622

>>3449604
In the "you're a dinosaur on the verge of extinction" sense .
And that's reality

Hahaha ! Poor deluded ape...... thinks he is the centre of the universe only because he's scared.

Yes, that's right monkey, "god" is watching you ! Yessss, attaboy, your god's favored little monkey !

robe the emulator !W8xLejgnCw Mon Jul 25 18:09:41 2011 No.3449626

>>3449606
>subroutines
And what are these subroutines in terms of neural activity? What makes one part of the brain cause conscious awareness while another contributes to the unconscious mind? Be elaborate for fucks sake. If you're going to be arrogant, back your arrogance the fuck up with an argument. Explain it to me if you know. Except you don't know. Prove me wrong. Fucking dumbass.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:09:41 2011 No.3449628

>>3449620
yup, i read the answer book

John 21:25
New King James Version (NKJV)

25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:09:41 2011 No.3449637 >>3449612 You just spit baseless sentences into air, pretending it's true.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:10:41 2011 No.3449641 >>3449622 we prefer to be called sheep :)

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:10:41 2011 No.3449643 >>3449628 >answer book >not the book of mormon

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:11:41 2011 No.3449648 >>3449637 either that, or i paraphrase bible verses, and if asked, post those verses that back up the statement.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:11:41 2011 No.3449650 >>3449628 Someone says "jesus this, jesus that" Why should I believe that someone? Also >i suppose hahaha.. the guy admit he don't even know. Stop being so incredibly gullible Or stop trolling.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:12:41 2011 No.3449653 >>3449641 No matter, you really are a monkey.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:12:41 2011 No.3449655

>>3449643
that is correct. the mormons have a different jesus that they claim to worship, one that is a brother to lucifer.

beware of false prophets teaching of false doctrines, for many will be deceived. even if an angel tells you something different (i'm looking at you, moroni, er, lucifer), do not believe it

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:13:41 2011 No.3449660

>>3449650
don't. read about Jesus yourself. do your best to disprove Jesus. look at all the evidence, and make up your own mind.

this is the way "scientists" are usually saved; by looking at all the evidence, and trying to disprove the gospel of Jesus Christ.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:14:41 2011 No.3449664 >>3449653 >this is what evolutionists really believe!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:16:41 2011 No.3449669 >>3449655 You b elieve in what you believe because your parents raised you that way. You aren't more right than any other human being on earth.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:17:41 2011 No.3449678

>>3449664
No, evolutionists think that humans came from the same ancestry species than today's primates (we are classified as primates too)

You're simply ignorant, you lack knowledge, you know this thing your religion forbids you to have so they can keep on manipulating you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:18:41 2011 No.3449682 >>3449669 wow, look at all those unfounded assumptions! what are my parents' names? what do they believe? what did they teach me? for starters....

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:18:41 2011 No.3449683 File: 90 KB, 375x375, cudd8781.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why is this guy on /sci/?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:19:41 2011 No.3449688 I do good because I think it's the most intelligent thing to do. You do good because you're afraid of hell /and/or want to be rewarded. You're a very low person with no morality, an hyper egocentristic savage..

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:19:41 2011 No.3449689 >>3449678 yes, they "have faith" that a "missing link" will one day be found to justify their godlessness how is that superior to believing in God again?

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:20:41 2011 No.3449696

>>3449688
what you call good, God calls filthy rags. you are incapable of doing something in your flesh that will impress God with your righteousness.

the only way you can do good is to have Good inside you, and without God, you have nothing Good inside you; only physical meat instincts and wickedness.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:22:41 2011 No.3449702 >>3449688 you gettin' trolled hard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:22:41 2011 No.3449703 >>3449689 What missing link? We've mapped the ancestry tree of humans and great apes pretty well

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:23:41 2011 No.3449711 >>3449683 ...and why is he only in 200+ response threads??? and why won't anyone help me with my homework!!! /butthurt sensed

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:23:41 2011 No.3449715 >>3449696 Since when is there an absolute moral standard?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:23:41 2011 No.3449720 >>3449703 lol you keep thinking you're a monkey's uncle, with nobody to hold you to account for your sins. let's see how that fantasy plays out for ya.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:24:41 2011 No.3449721 >>3449711 wat?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:24:41 2011 No.3449725 >>3449715 since God thanks for the softball, btw

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:26:41 2011 No.3449737 >>3449720 I am not a monkey's uncle. The common ancestor linking chimpanzees and humans lived around 6 millions years ago. Evolution is a tree, not a direct line. Ignoramus

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:26:57 2011 No.3449738

>>3449138
>but to blame God? on what basis?

For designing adam and eve to enjoy the taste of fruit. He then punishes them for eating the very thing he designed them to want to eat.

Seriously are all creationists this stupid? It boggles the mind sometimes.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:27:57 2011 No.3449747

>>3449738
there were thousands of different kinds of fruit that they could eat, and one that they could not.

satan deceived eve, and eve ate the fruit. adam joined her.

so the angel that rebelled against God caused the first two humans to rebel against God.

why are evolutionists so stupid? it boggles the mind sometimes

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:29:45 2011 No.3449755

>>3449737
a tree is a tree; a monkey is a monkey; an ape is an ape; and a man is a man

really, evolutionsists, are you even trying anymore?

do you know that you're trying to prove that your ancestors were monkey/apes/missing links/bigfoot/yeti?

really?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:30:28 2011 No.3449768 >>3449682 It's an hypothesis (a guess). Nut this hypothesis is statistically founded. So, I was right, wasn't i ?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:30:28 2011 No.3449769 There's a reason the easiest way to ridicule religion is pretending to take its claims at face value. Is /sci/ really going to feed every troll that invokes Poe's Law? For shame.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:30:28 2011 No.3449770 >>3449747 Who wrote this fairy tale? Sounds exotic

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:32:08 2011 No.3449783 >>3449696 You are wrong,n and a fascist to boot. I've done much more good than you and your whole family united. And not because I fear and want anything more than universal peace. You are an ennemy of good.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:32:08 2011 No.3449785

>>3449768
you cleverly disguised your hypothesis as a conclusion, and sought no information from the only source you were aware of. me.

no, you weren't right. you were wrong. but keep making wild unfounded guesses and calling them conclusions; they give you grants for that these days.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:33:57 2011 No.3449794 >>3449769 i am sincere lol

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:34:57 2011 No.3449795

>>3449689
The missing link thing has been debunked several times.
There is no "missing link" there is a chain of variations , species mutating, "evolving" .. We're still in this process , and we will "forever" be (until the universe stalls into cold death, that is).

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:36:20 2011 No.3449809 >>3449785 You know I'm right. Stop being dishonest. You liar.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:36:36 2011 No.3449808 >>3449770 it all has that dull ring of truth to it, doesn't it

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:37:20 2011 No.3449820 >>3449808 You're troll-fu is weakening.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:38:20 2011 No.3449822

>>3449783
i'm sorry, friend, but all of your attempts to do good and to be good will not cover the stain of all of your sins.

you simply cannot be good enough to get into heaven; you can be the most ethical person in Hell, but you cannot be "good enough" to get into heaven.

you have to be God.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:39:05 2011 No.3449826 >>3449795 ah, so the lack of a missing link proves that we don't need a missing link to prove that something is true when it is false. amazing. i don't have enough faith for modern science, no sir.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:40:47 2011 No.3449832 >>3449820 no, sadly, some simply cannot discern the truth; for them, the truth is a lie there is no hope for reprobates

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:42:30 2011 No.3449837

>>3449809
how so? is it so hard to believe when the bible says that Jesus' Word is a sharp two-edged sword, that cleaves mother from son, father from daughter, family from relations, that it is untrue?

if only christian families begat christians, how would you account for the millions of adult converts who never heard the Word before?

no, your clueless guessing about the state of reality is a problem, not a means to finding a solution

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:42:30 2011 No.3449838

>>3449747
>there were thousands of different kinds of fruit that they could eat, and one that they could not.

except god still designed them to like the particular fruit that he told them not to eat. Which was the reason why they ate it. If not, what was the reason they ate it? If it was to disobey god for the sake of disobeying then why did god design them to be disobedient?

plus what about sexual urges, god programmes these in but they're a sin? so he's programmed us for sinful behaviour? all the while knowing from omnipotence all the sins going to be commited in advance before he even brought them into existence.

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:46:56 2011 No.3449854

>>3449838
the reason eve ate the fruit is because it looked good to her for food (i.e., not poisonous), and it looked delicious. the reason she looked at the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil in this way is that satan told her God lied to her. satan said God lied when he told them that if they ate the fruit, they would die.

satan told eve that if she wanted to be more like God, she should eat the fruit, and that she would not die.

because eve craved this, to be more like God, she was deceived. Adam was not deceived, but like eve, ate of the fruit. thus fell not only mankind, but all of creation. God cursed the ground; God cursed men; God cursed women. because of this fall, we have sin, and suffering, and death.

because of the lie of a serpent, who plotted our destruction

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:46:56 2011 No.3449860

Didn't read it all, got bored. Wow am I glad I don't live in America! What a bunch of silly people you are. Must be pretty depressing too not believing in dinosaurs.

Many Roman emperors and Egyptian pharaohs claimed to be gods, how come you don't worship them? I think this Jesus bloke was having you on!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:50:30 2011 No.3449875 >>3449860 because they didn't walk out of their graves three days after they were beaten near to death, crucified to death, and stabbed in the heart? yeah, that's why enjoy londanistan

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:53:56 2011 No.3449892 You guys stick to your 2000 year old book written by lunatics, and I'll stick to specialized scientists who undergo extensive research following the scientific method

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:54:40 2011 No.3449899

>>3449892
sorry, "mate", but that sort of science is passe now.

now it's all about making up metaphysical models and pretending to know the secrets of the universe without using any experimentation, without the scientific method, and without rigorous testing.

nope. universe created itself by gravity. case closed.

lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:55:22 2011 No.3449904 >>3449837 Concerning you, I was right, wasn't I ? What are you afraid of? Beginning to see your delusion falling like a painted curtain on a theater's decorum? I was right, wasn't I ?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:56:22 2011 No.3449910 >>3449904 you were not who is in a better position to know than i? you? if you're asking if my parents are saved, i'm pretty sure dad is, and really not sure mom is like i said, a sharp two-edged sword, dividing families

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:57:04 2011 No.3449917 >>3449904 also, if you are arrogant enough to presume that the hundreds of millions of people who are "religious" or at least believe in a god are deluded, what does that say about you?

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:58:04 2011 No.3449924

>>3449899
Actually, these models have predictive power, and also explain our many observations many particles. These scientists don't close the case on this stuff either.

It would help if you looked into and tried to understand theoretical physics, but apparently you just want to brush it off as false as it contradicts your book.

Would you tell me that Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 18:59:47 2011 No.3449928 >>3449910 Yep, I was right. You didn't chose to be a theist, to be a christian. You were raised in it. Poor ignorant thing... :/

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 19:01:33 2011 No.3449932 >>3449924 i was pretty sure modern science was doing that for me but sure, einstein's theory of relativity is wrong, at least in some respects

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 19:01:33 2011 No.3449935 >>3449917 It makes me just a slightly more science-educated person than most of humanity. I don't see anything extraordinary or impossible in this claim. Try again.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 19:02:18 2011 No.3449939 >>3449932 in which respects?

Anonymous Mon Jul 25 19:03:18 2011 No.3449941

>>3449924
to the extent that it contradicts the "book", it is wrong, time and time again.

in fact, i couldn't stomach being a scientist; wrong all the damn time, with young scientists chomping at the bit to prove everything you spend your life on was wrong.

ugh.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 25 19:03:18 2011 No.3449944 >>3449932 You cannot, I reapeat, CANNOT confront science on its claims if you HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THEM That's where your whole certitude comes from: ignorance, fucking , classic, usual, boring, annoying ignorance !

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/sci/ - Science & Math