[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

View post   
File: 24 KB, 400x340, hedge fund ad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3422220 No.3422220 [Reply] [Original]

can we talk about economic shit in here?

I don't mean stuff like the debt ceiling and the economic hysteria etc, I mean, how does one get in on this action.

There are people out there right now doing financial shit, moving money around and getting rich, and I want in on that but don't know how.

Basically I have 1000 dollars that I am not going to spend on a new PC this fall, instead, I'm gonna put it into some of this financial shit and try to turn it into more money.

I want to try some of the stuff that the media is heavily criticizing, like shorting a stock, or whatever the hell "hedge funds" do, but I don't really know any financial stuff aside from wikipedia.

help me /sci/

>> No.3422244

>>3422220

So, I looked into it my self. So far, best options it seems is buying Gold or Silver since their prices are most likely to keep speculating. But all banks that let you invest into gold want at least 200k so not even 10k is viable solution.

You can always buy stocks tho, Google might go up with their new social toy.

>> No.3422242

Hmm....and uneducated investor with a few bucks who wants to get rich quick; Wall Street loves people like you.

>> No.3422252

>not sure if srs
If you are investing your own money $1000 will be spent simply on brokerage...

If you want to get rich easily with zero to low risk all you have to do is work for a market maker or investment bank. Market maker is preferred due to easier money and better working times but you have to be a math genius. Investment bank is more for people who aren't naturally gifted but willing to work super super hard. For the former any undergrad degree will allow you to be tested by a company to determine if you're smart enough (such as Optiver or similar) and for the latter you generally need a commerce/finance degree with a really good academic transcript. You'll probably also need connections simply to get an interview...

>> No.3422271

its not like I'm betting my life here, if I lost the thousand I'm not gonna have my life ruined, I want to use it to learn some stuff.

some people are saying its a giant scam, that there is no logic to it, others say that anybody who is determined can "think and grow rich". If the financial industry has something that can be learned than surely somebody on sci has a clue, or at least a book to recommend, or something.

>> No.3422274

OP. Set up a Roth IRA. Look at T Rowe Price or Vanguard and get into one of their no load mutual funds.

>> No.3422277

Despite what people will tell you, you need a certain degree of financial knowledge to be successful in a market. There is no quick scheme. I put £10,000 in BaE and Lockheed Martin in late 2002. By the time the Iraq war was in full swing I'd made a hefty sum.

On the downside, it could have quite easily gone the other way. Economics is a science study but it's an art to practice. I recommend reading some basic economics books (1st year undergrad) then moving onto more complex theories. Look into people like Nick Leeson and Lehman Brothers who got it wrong. Get clued up on politics and history, make sure you read a few decent papers every day. Browse the internet. Follow trends and watch new products.

$1000 might get you started. Who knows? But any success gained from going in blind would be down to luck.

Also, FOREX run a trading simulator where they give you 50k in fake dollars to play around with.

>> No.3422288

>>3422274
Vanguard brofist. OP, be sure to buy a broad market index fund with a low expense ratio.

>> No.3422295

>>3422271

step 1. acquire books on finance, stocks, economics

step 2. read books

step 3. observe market trends and read more books

after a couple years you might be ready to invest that 1k and you'll only have a 90% chance of losing it if you play your cards right---

stock market = casino, only people who devote 12hours a day for years and years succeed at it..

just being straight with you.

>> No.3422298
File: 28 KB, 200x280, hayekpalm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3422298

>only has $1000
>no connections
>no education
>wants to become a bankster

Unless you can conduct an investigation by yourself and uncover insider information or some massive scam which you can manipulate for your own selfish needs instead of reveal to the world, you're stuck.

>> No.3422304

>>3422271
I can recommend some books.

>The Richest Man in Babylon
>A Random Walk Down Wall Street
>The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing

>> No.3422309

>>3422220

You can also invest into some mutual fund with a bank. They'll take you 1k for a year and give back $1020 at the end.

Make $20 in a year! w00t!

>> No.3422319

>>3422309
>>3422274

stop telling this fool to invest his money

>> No.3422329

why spend 40 hours a week trying to siphon a small percentage off of other people's business when you can start your own business and let other suckers invest?

never really understood how people expect to get rich off the markets. when a business sells you stock, they're just unloading their risk.

>> No.3422347

you will want 5000 to start in stocks. or else most of your profit will go into trading fees.

>> No.3422348
File: 705 KB, 800x558, James Simons.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3422348

>>3422329

you can get rich off the market, but it takes a lot of LUCK and a lot of skill...if you don't have heaps of both, then you're fucked.

>> No.3422349

>>3422329
Previous >>3422304 here.

This is true. Over 2/3 of millionaires own their own business. That reminds me of another book recommendation.

>The Millionaire Next Door

>> No.3422351

>>3422298

I wouldn't say no education, I have an undergrad degree in computer engineering, and I'm in law school currently, to eventually get into patent law. I used to work in washington as a patent examiner for computer networking inventions.

Sure enough I only went through the first year uni economics class, experimenting with things outside my area of expertise is kind of a hobby of mine. I understand it's naive to think that I can get rich quick, maybe my first post didn't clarify that well enough but I was trying to keep it short so people would actually read it.

There's gotta be more to it than a casino, what are the people who are taking all our money doing?

>> No.3422352

Or you can read The Black Swan, by Nassim Taleb and never play the market again.

>> No.3422355

Fooled by Randomness by Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Excellent and fun book to read about stock market investment

>> No.3422359

>>3422329
No, it's the equivalent of taking out a loan, you use someone else's capital in exchange for increasing it's value.

>> No.3422362

>>3422351

Wait till you fucking graduate and then go into corporate. You'll get constant trading tips because you will have all the inside information on how companies are performing.

>> No.3422366

Nassim Taleb is the boobs, fo shizzle

>> No.3422372

Ignore the markets. Unless you get to play with other people's money or have 6 figures of seed money, it's a waste of time. Use your $1000 coming up with a unique business idea that you can own and operate to make a little side income. You'll probably want to offer a service since products are hard. It's best if you create a locally known brand that you could sell to someone else if you want to go somewhere else, or an internet business that doesn't take up too much of your time.

I repeat, unless you're working at a big player/market maker or a boutique investment house, you will never get rich moving money around, and the guys who do are smart and dedicated and have angled their whole lives toward being good at finance.

>> No.3422374

>>3422244
When are people going to realize that the gold and silver markets are riding on a bubble; IMO gold and silver constantly rises long term but I am sure OP doesn't want to hold this investment for years. If you are going to buy gold and silver make sure its short term. All the big players know this; the majority of them predicted the collapse of the American economy and bought large amounts of gold. The crash has occurred long enough for them to sell most of there assets so most of the people in the game right now are speculators. Also the American economy is turning around despite what you hear on the media sure things are bad but I wouldn't be surprised if America would be in a rebounding in about 2 years. When America's economy rebounds the metals bubble will burst unless Europe can't solve its debt problem. If the euro falters then maybe the bubble will continue to get bigger but the bigger they get the harder they fall and chances are Europe will figure out a way to manage debt.

>> No.3422381

I'll give you three tips OP:

Minerals are not a safe bet unless they're from an eastern company.

Precious metals have never gone down in price.

Defense is a great place to invest at the moment.

>> No.3422394

>>3422381
You've never seen the historical silver price?

>> No.3422401

Sorry bro, shaking the right hand will make you more money than that 1000 dollars will. Good luck though

>> No.3422425

>>3422372
some great points.
we talk about business ownership like it's some mysterious process with huge risk involved.

the real risks are pretty easy to manage.
you don't need to invent a new service, all you need to do is get started in an existing one and do a slightly better job than the next guy, and/or charge slightly less.

turning $1k into $1000k is pretty easy with a services business, assuming a market with relatively little local competition. I don't think I'd try it in most major cities though.

>> No.3422432

>>3422381
>Precious metals have never gone down in price.

the 1980's called, they want to talk to you.

>> No.3422434

>>3422351
>There's gotta be more to it than a casino, what are the people who are taking all our money doing?

In the words of Billy Walters (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/07/17/60minutes/main20074738.shtml))

"I've been swindled out of quite a bit quite a bit of money on the stock market. And I bought a lot of Enron stock once. And I got swindled. I bought a lotta WorldCom stock, got swindled. I bought a lotta Tyco stock. I got swindled," he told Logan.

His disdain for Wall Street is one of the reasons Walters decided to talk to "60 Minutes" - a chance he says to make the point that the gambling world is not as shady as most people think.

"I ran into a lotta bad guys, a lotta thieves. I mean, they'd steal the Lord's Supper. But I can tell ya, percentage-wise, I ran into many more with suits and ties on than I have with the gamblers," he told Logan.

>> No.3422436

>>3422351
Then my suggestion is to endeavour to change your position in society from receiver to pitcher. You don't even own yourself if you have no equity, even if you are an expert in your field and the very best humanity has to offer you're still pretty much just a glorified serf, though your 6 figure income would make it easier to end this situation. Start investing in mutual funds, be moderate and skeptical, do your homework and study everything in detail, dont shirk, assess risks properly, yadiyadiya, the real ticket though is to start being innovative and "pro-active" to extremes, extremes that seem almost insane, write prospective letters to every business or individual that crosses your view making suggestions and requesting information, you will look like an idiot and rightly so because you're a mentally feeble ape that has just barely evolved to construct civilization and you don't know everything but in doing so you will start to dig up opportunities here and there, eventually you will happen across that one thing that for some reason everyone else missed, that one thing which allows you to pull yourself out of your situation and live as you please.

>> No.3422446

You could start a 401k or some reasonable account, wait, 40 years. Be rich.

Or you could actively invest money into something you believe in, and worth towards creating something with will generate monies in the future.

>> No.3422465

Go to Las Vegas. At least you'll have more fun throwing your money away over there.

>> No.3422471 [DELETED] 

Or you could invest it into bonds of failing countries such as Ireland, Greece, Italy. Sure you run the prospect of losing everything if the country goes under but you could get interest rate up to 35-50% your input value. That's not bad but your money will have to sit there for 10 years...

>> No.3422469

Making "real money" from trading is possible, but very hard. I make a living from trading my own account but I have 8+ years of trading experience including a couple of years at an investment bank and a small stint at a hedge fund. The effort I put in makes the work it took to get my university degrees look like a joke. The truth is very few people are cut out to be traders. So unless you willing to put in work do yourself(and your wallet) a favor and just put your money in a decent mutual fund or an index fund.

>> No.3422480

Or you could invest it into bonds of failing countries such as Ireland, Greece, Italy. Sure you run the prospect of losing everything if the country goes under but you could get interest rates up to 35-50% your input value. That's not bad but your money will have to sit there for 10 years...

>> No.3422483

This isn't something I wanna do full time, it would be really sweet though if I could get adept at financial stuff by the time I graduate and actually have some real money to play with.

So this market marker gig and similar full time deals are out, however, I'm willing to spend about as much time at this as some of your average mmorpg addicts, just to clarify things.

the general theme is that 1000 wont do shit, I was hoping I might be able to spend a month turning it into 1300 or something for starters; that is disappointing.

I already have a government employees 401k equivalent called a "thrift savings plan", it just does its own thing and I can check up on it every few years, I was looking for something I could take a more active role in.

>> No.3422494

Someone knows a simple trade simulator, google only lead me to MAKEANACCOUNT/GIVEUSYOURCREDITCARD/FREEBUTNOTFREE sites.

I would like to see things in action. Also, small ammounts are eaten by bookers.

>> No.3422495

>>3422446
Btw you must be in university or working in the financial field how are the job prospects?

>> No.3422501

>>3422494
http://www.weseed.com/
I use this

>> No.3422502
File: 66 KB, 320x460, club.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3422502

Hey OP, I started an investment club back in 2007 with 12 friends. We meet regularly, throw in $60 to $100 each, research stocks, and try to make money. That way we have enough to buy significant chunks of stock, but no single person is going to lose their shirt if shit goes bad. Our portfolio is around $16,000 now on a $12,000 investment. We have some penny stocks that we are down on right now but will hopefully pop after some litigation gets worked out.

Some things I have learned:
1) Invest in what you know (e.g., I'm an Electrical engineer so I present tech stocks to the club)
2) Don't ever buy mutual funds. An index fund is basically the same thing but without management fees.

Good luck! For the most part I am of the opinion that the markets are a crapshoot.

>> No.3422519

>>3422494
investopedia.com simulator

>> No.3422531

>>3422495

I am still an undergrad. But I have been job hunting all summer. I have had no luck.

>> No.3422541

>>3422502

>1) Invest in what you know (e.g., I'm an Electrical engineer so I present tech stocks to the club)

This is so true. This is what my finance professor says. If you arent buying stuff you know about, you are gambling. Thats part of why its so hard to be a professional trader I suspect. Because no person can know enough about every kind of company to be able to predict how its going to go.

>> No.3422543

sage for capitalism

>> No.3422562

>>3422543
fuck off you elitist prick

>> No.3422567

>>3422502
>2.) Don't ever buy mutual funds.

Wait...what? Run that by me again.

>> No.3422568

>>3422543
sage for socialist faggotry

>> No.3422570

If I tap all my friends and family and myself, I know about computers, real estate, healthcare and restaurants. The real estate guy keeps telling me to buy land and renovate houses. I know a few people that have teamed up to do this but they keep complaining that their properties get broken into and robbed, and sometimes I wonder if people are ever going to get enough money to buy those houses again.

>> No.3422575

>>3422567

Yeah really. It seems like, by its nature, the only way it could be a bad idea, is if the economy, or industry as a whole goes bad. Which shouldnt happen if you are investing for a long period of time. The only people who should be worried are people trying to get rich quick.

>> No.3422611

>>3422575
THIS SO MUCH THIS

Investing is always a good idea. Put your money into a couple unrelated blue chip stocks and keep them there for a LONG time. Historically the stock market has only gone up in the long term. The reason people lose their shirts is because they try to get the maximum return possible, which is gambling if you don't have the proper resources.

>> No.3422673

>>3422483
if you're not looking for simple mutual funds, then find a practice stock trader if you can. i'd recommend van tharps' trade your way to financial freedom if you're looking to get into it a bit deeper.

A hedge fund is simply a group of guys that trade stocks or securities for profit. The media likes to blame market dips on short sellers, when really it's just how the market naturally works.

forex trader myself. it has a lower barrier to entry, but is less forgiving than the stock market. there's no easy "buy and hold" strategy. You also have to get into technical charting if you want to be any good at it. it's commitment heavy so probably not what you're looking for.

>> No.3422698

>>3422567
Read about index funds. They are a "stock" you buy whose value is based on the value of a bunch of companies in a certain sector or on a certain exchange or whatever (depends on the index you buy). Just like a mutual fund, except a mutual fund charges you a yearly "management fee".

>> No.3422719

>>3422570
I flip houses, I have been doing so for a few decades. But such projects came about as a side affect of operating a renovation/construction company and interacting with many succesful and proliffic real estate owners/companies.

So I often have access to properties that other people dont even get a chance to look at, and after a walkthrough I generally know how much any given house will cost me to the penny to turn and also what I can expect for profit.

it is something that you really need to research. If you are not familiar with renovating, you will acrue many unforseen expenses and possibly get soaked by your contractors as well.

Where as I use my own people, it really does make a huge difference.

Of course you can still make plenty of money simply by being patient if you manage to get some decent properties in good locations. But this ties money up of course and if you need access to it before the market readjusts, you might lose alot of money. I have seen it happen to plenty of people.

>> No.3422740

>>3422698
Oh, I thought you were telling the OP to avoid ALL mutual funds. Perhaps that should have said actively-managed mutual funds then? I agree that passive investing is the long way to financial independence. In the market, you always get what you don't pay for.

>> No.3422776

>>3422480
The whole point of a bond is that you can trade it to someone else at any time so that money is made and lost on the swings in perception of the bond's worth and not just by waiting it out. Once a bond is widely perceived to be likely to mature, bond guys get out and look for new bonds.

If you have no more information than the bond, forex, stock etc. market, you shouldn't expect any returns in excess of risk because the big boys have roomfuls of MIT and Cambridge mathematicians who do better analysis of known information than you do.

>> No.3422791

So what would the best investing strategy be for your average /sci/entist who isn't studying finance or anything? I have around $4,000 of cash that is just sitting around.

>> No.3422814

>>3422791
First start an emergency fund in case shit happens. Who knows when some drunk driver could put you in a hospital for an extended period? After you have a nice cushion, then it's time to invest.

>> No.3422828

>>3422791
What's your position in life?

>> No.3422841

>>3422828

Third year electrical engineering student. Live with parents, have a decent paying internship right now, not particularly worried about being stuck without liquid assets at the moment.

>> No.3422878

OP I had 60,000.00, a friend of mine's dad was considered one of the most successful stock brokers for a huge investment company.

I asked him what to invest in and he told me exactly what to invest in without charging me any money.

5,000% return on my investment in 10 years.

I'm not where I'd like to be yet financially, but I'd say the most surefire way to invest is this:

- Know the right people who know the right people.

Shit worked for me. If you know someone who has insider knowledge and shit, and he just doesn't tell you any of the insider knowledge or that he even has it (he never admitted that he did, but I assume he did), then:

1. You get the benefit on investing in scams/businesses that are about to get huge government contracts that the public doesn't know they are going to get.

2. You get the benefit of plausible deniability.

3. You get the benefit of massive returns on your investment.

Good luck op, but the best answer is and always will be "know the right people and have them help you out."

>> No.3422894

>>3422841
If you have earned income and don't mind being without liquid assets, open a Roth IRA. This retirement fund allows you to save up to 5k per year in after-tax dollars. By after-tax, I mean the money is taxed now and you get no write-off when you file taxes in April 2012. However, the nice aspect is that when you withdraw the money in 50 years or so, you pay zero taxes then. This is usually ideal because you'll likely be in a higher tax bracket when you retire.

>> No.3422926

>>3422878

You made $2,940,000 in ten years?!

>> No.3422929

>>3422878
You have $3M from you initial investment in an account right now?

>> No.3423051

OP:

www.investopedia.com

Here is a site where you can read up on investments (if you can't get through the beginners section and basics don't feel bad - you are just another idiot who sees the stock market millionaires in a movie and thinks "I'M GOING TO BE THAT GUY!"

Once you play a couple simulations on here you will realize how fucking retarded you are for jumping into the market with a measly $1000 and no brain in your head.

Let me tell you something, the markets are a fucking chaotic, manipulated, random, heartbreaking lottery where you can SLIGHTLY skew the odds in your favor if you somehow find a way past the government POMO, private scams (there are thousands), insider trading, controlled collapses, FUD, central banks interest rating hostage situations, natural disasters, bad harvests, someone sneezing, Israel throwing a temper tantrum, etc etc.

They are going to collapse the markets big time because the Boomers are about to retire and have their pensions in them.

There was a Japanese NEET who started in the markets with $10,000 and is a self made billionaire ... the problem IIRC was the he was a savant and you are not, he also got RETARDLY lucky on multiple occasions.

none of this matters because you will figure out you will use $1000 in seconds just on brokerage fees.

Go work in a factory, the markets aren't for you.