/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3416028]

You are now aware that the Proto-Indo-Europeans composed of the homo sapiens who originally entered Europe where they most likely interbred with Neanderthals. You are now aware that the people of pre-celtic France, Iberia, Neolithic europe (southern coast of England and northern coast of France during the rise of civilization of the middle-east), and Sardinia shared traits that are indicative of Neanderthal admixture. You are now aware that France and Iberia are the regions where the most Neanderthal bones are found today. You are now aware that Neanderthal Dna has been discovered to lack Rh. You are now aware that The Basque people have an Rh- frequency of 33%. You are now aware that Rh negativity is associated with large eyes, head, IQ, and an elongated tailbone, traits associated with Neanderthals and noted in the Basque to varying degrees. You are now aware that ancient Sardinian and Basque are thought to have lingual connections. You are now aware that the early, Proto-Indo-European peoples of western Europe had twice as much neanderthal blood as most modern Europeans. You are now aware that the Basque are somehow the last remaining humans that are part of a group of people that had a massive amount of neanderthal admixture by the standards of toaday. You are now aware that doing detailed mental studies of the Basque people in populations with higher Rh frequency could help us estimate the potential intellect of a Neanderthal. Your pants are now filled to the brim with shit.

[Anonymous No.3416047]

>>3416028
Allow me to correct a mistake "Basque people in populations with higher Rh frequency could help us estimate the potential intellect of a Neanderthal."
Meant to say lower Rh frequency

[Anonymous No.3416069]

not a big deal really, especially since Aliums made all of us

[OP No.3416084]

>>3416069
I lol'd

[Anonymous No.3416086]

I come from 2 Spanish families... but not sure if basque. What do I win?

[Anonymous No.3416112]

>>3416086
You sir, win the knowledge that whenever you say youre Spanish, people will automatically associate you with Mexicans.

[OP No.3416119]

>>3416086
uuuuuuh... nothing... because you're Spanish.

[Anonymous No.3416122]

>>3416028
You are now aware that you wrote "you are now aware" ten times and it wasn't funny

[OP No.3416128]

>>3416122
You are now aware that I did it so many times that I forgot how to write properly.

[Anonymous No.3416151]

The most interesting part is that the Basque language group seems totally disconnected from the rest of Europe.
maybe they still speak "Neaderthalian"

[Anonymous No.3416181]

holy fuck im a quarter basque

[Anonymous No.3416194]

>>3416151

Untraceable remnants at best, assuming the Neanderthals even had language.

Language isolates are pretty interesting though. And there's quite a lot of them. The remnants of cultures who's neighbors have long been blown away by conquest, disease, mixture into others, who knows.

[Anonymous No.3416298]

OP, your humaneander chimera threads are weak. How about a Humanzee thread once in a while?

you are now aware that humans fucked chimps and produced offspring.

[OP No.3416351]

>>3416298
Why the pluralization of thread? I'm pretty sure this is the only thread I've ever posted on /sci/.

[Anonymous No.3416378]

>>3416351
whether true or not, we've had at least two Neanderthal remnants threads/day for a couple weeks now.

some homosexual racist type keeps posting them to troll us, it seems to work. I suspect you are in fact that homosexual racist person.

[OP No.3416397]

>>3416378
lol, no. What about my post is homosexual or racist? It was merely an observation I made that didn't seem worth posting on the boards I usually go to.

[Anonymous No.3416423]

>>3416397
unless he's some kind of a Basque nationalist racist, lol.

[Anonymous No.3416420]

>>3416397
the OP pretends to be interested in the amount and distribution of Neanderthal heritage.

the OP then samefags a sock puppet to imply that Neanderthal genes are in fact what makes black people inferior.

much hillarity ensues, OP usually has two or more of the same thread going at any one time.

it's possible you aren't this troll, but why the hell the sudden interest in preservation of Neanderthal genes, or attempting to reconstruct intelligence when we can't even quantify or predict human intelligence?

you aren't an anthropologist, or you'd know this. I doubt you have any science background...

[Anonymous No.3416441]

>>3416420
Because I find Neanderthals interesting. I think we could try to pick out unique mental qualities by observing the closest ancestor the Neanderthals may have. I don't have a science background, I'm just a kid that's interested in linguistics and anthropology.

>we can't even quantify or predict human intelligence
*accurately
We have methods that are innacurate but still worth the data they provide - besides, I'm not very interested in IQ as it probably wouldn't translate well in a different species, I'm more interested in potentially different mental characteristics concerning memory and visual vs. non-visual sensory intake.

[Anonymous No.3416443]

>>3416441
(cont'd) and I'm not saying Basque are a different species because of the admixture. Small qualities picked up by rural Basque may connect to qualities that were more distinct in neanderthals.

[Anonymous No.3418039]

bump

[Anonymous No.3418049]

>>3416028
>you are now aware that the early, Proto-Indo-European peoples of western Europe had twice as much neanderthal blood as most modern Europeans

no, i am not aware, since you have no [citation]

>You are now aware that Rh negativity is associated with large eyes, head, IQ, and an elongated tailbone, traits associated with Neanderthals and noted in the Basque to varying degrees
[citation needed]

>You are now aware that doing detailed mental studies of the Basque people in populations with higher Rh frequency could help us estimate the potential intellect of a Neanderthal
[citation needed]

You're talking out of your ass.

[Anonymous No.3418071]

>>3416423
>implying theres another type of Basque person.

[Anonymous No.3418073]

>>3418049
How are you also excused from citations? Because you asked for them?

[Anonymous No.3418097]

>You are now aware that Rh negativity is associated with large eyes, head, IQ, and an elongated tailbone
>IQ

>he thinks blood type has anything to do with intelligence
Where the fuck did you get this from? According to Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rh_negative), only 1% of Asians are Rh negative. Asians. Need I say more, faggot?

[Anonymous No.3418117]

you are now aware that south west europeans have the highest IQs for a reason

[OP No.3418122]

>>3418097
Because there's an association between genes that code for IQ and genes that code for Rh negativity amongst European populations - presumably because of an ancestor that had both in high frequency. Only a complete idiot would believe that Rh negativity actually increases intelligence directly. Equally so, believing that Rh negativity always comes with increased IQ is idiotic. This is about the frequency of certain traits within a population with Rh negativity being used to mark the high potential of high admixture with this long-gone population.

[Anonymous No.3418126]

>>3418097
>doesn't understand the meaning of the word correlation.

[Anonymous No.3418133]

>>3418117
the samefagging ITT is pathetic, op.

>>3418073
>How are you also excused from citations? Because you asked for them?
Herp derp. All I did was ask for citations. I didn't make any statements. Are you seriously that stupid?

[Anonymous No.3418138]

>>3418122
>genes that code for IQ

lol'd
thanks

[OP No.3418154]

>>3418133
First off, I'm not samefagging. the fact that people think there might be validity to my theory may be difficult for you to believe since you're so (presumably) closed-minded.

Second-off, all my sources were gathered from wikipedia and other random, non-topic related research I found from google. I probably should have written down those URLs because I should have known I would have been called out for lack of citations but I was being foolish and not thinking at the time. I apologize but assure you that I found all of this data from various web sources as opposed to my own ass. Sorry =/

[Anonymous No.3418173]

>>3418154
protip- web sources are no more credible than your ass.

[OP No.3418171]

>>3418138
http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/11/dtnbp1-gene-and.html
Just the first thing I found on the topic from google. At least make sure your lulz are founded.

[Anonymous No.3418167]

>>3418138
>Sea cucumber's are only dumb because of poor environment!

[Anonymous No.3418180]

>>3418154
>First off, I'm not samefagging. the fact that people think there might be validity to my theory may be difficult for you to believe since you're so (presumably) closed-minded.

The reason I suspected samefagging was because you included your trademark string "you are now aware."

Please, don't insult my intelligence.

>Second-off, all my sources were gathered from wikipedia and other random, non-topic related research I found from google.

I looked up some of the things you were saying. All that came up was this Geocities-type site with some arbitrary theory on how "the Basques" are actually Neanderthals and therefore the master race.

Peer reviewed research or take it to >>>/b/

[OP No.3418193]

>>3418173
protip - your ass is no more credible than web sources either. If your going to live under the implication that no websource is reliable and our asses are moreso (and we ARE on the internet) than that means (using your logic, not mine) that we should just use our asses instead of websources.

[Anonymous No.3418194]

>>3418171
confirmation bias errywhere.

to my knowledge there's no evidence that IQ is culturally independent, nor have controlled cross-culture samples been taken.

but if you want to find correlations between a certain physiology and a subjective construct, more power to ya. It isn't science and it's barely math though. Maybe take it to /x/

[Anonymous No.3418203]

>>3418193
pulling 'facts' out your ass is fine with me, but I'm not all of the anons you're arguing with.

[OP No.3418209]

>>3418180
I assumed he was copying me. If I was samefagging, I wouldn't say the very thing people identify me as saying. As you put it: please don't insult my intelligence.

Also, of course if you just look up the theories themselves you're going to find those things filled with mostly conspiracytards. The things I checked on non-biased websites were the actual pieces of data such as frequency of Rh negativity.

[Anonymous No.3418217]

>>3418194
> implying race is a subjective construct

[OP No.3418226]

moar
http://www.downstate.edu/hbnl/documents/2007-Dick-AssociationofCHRM2withIQ_ConvergingEvidenceforaGen
eInfluencingIntelligence.pdf

[Anonymous No.3418232]

>>3418217
I was talking about IQ

to a man with a hammer everything looks like a nail...

[OP No.3418246]

>>3418194
implying gene-frequency as concerning IQ isn't anything but math. Please take your race shit to /int/, I'm talking about neanderthals and the Basque, I don't want all you faggots talking race here - that's another thread.

[Anonymous No.3418276]

>>3418246
again, I was calling IQ a pathetic construct, not race.

you are so used to being called racist you don't realize when someone changes the subject.

>interdasting_retard.jpg

[OP No.3418324]

>>3418276
You're right. I have an interest in the genetics of different human populations so I am consistently accused of being racist. <--- And it's infuriating.

Anyway, I do think that IQ may be inaccurate and over-cited but I don't think its an entirely illegitimate way to measure thinking power. Seeing as there's no real other standard that seems to bare more weight, I don't think I can offer any non-anecdotal evidence to support my claim. If anyone can find some, they can go for it, but that being said, I don't think there's a legitimate way to disprove it.

In a way, IQ is like currency. Currency only has value because we give it value, but that doesn't mean its not based off of the theoretical worth of what you've fiscally contributed to the society.

[Anonymous No.3418364]

>>3418324
an Amazonian aborigine has as much use for our currency as he does for our IQ tests. Understands both about the same I'd guess.

Both IQ and money have utility within the cultures that use them. We can test for a genetic phenotype, we can't test for intelligence, virtue, creativity, personality, or any other ephemeral emergent property of the individual.

well unless we want to sociology, but that's just retarded.

[OP No.3418366]

>>3418324
fyi if someone responds, I might not reply for a while because I have to go, but I am going to go back to this thread.

[Anonymous No.3418403]

>>3418324
No sources.

Just assertions based on nothing.

I swear, I see a hurr neanderthals thread almost daily now. Fuck off and talk about actual /sci/ like religion vs. atheism and homework questions.

[OP No.3418484]

>>3418403
Back, not sure if joking or serious.

>>3418364
Anyway, there's definitely a link between IQ and general mathematics abilities, the abilities associated with success within advanced societies. Like I said, IQ is not very accurate but to say there's no correlation would be very untrue. Just as it would be to say that all societies have a correlation between high IQ and being successful within them.

[Anonymous No.3418519]

>>3418484
Why would it be a troll?

You haven't posted a single link. As someone who's keep on human evolution, there's almost no evidence for a late European/Neanderthal admixture. There is evidence when neanderthals and humans were close and humans just emerged out of Africa.

And absolutely no evidence that Basque are neanderthals. This is just absurd. Basque are mostly just an isolated Indo-European population.

Btw, Neanderthals were retarded compared to early Cro-Magnon. They were wiped out in part because technology levels were shit.

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2004/03/16-02.html

http://www.plosbiology.org/home.action;jsessionid=F17F58713846C46A34645952F82961C8.ambra01

[OP No.3418568]

>>3418519
You may notice that I did post links in later comments, but whatever.

I never insinuated that my theory required that there was late admixture - however the possibility that there was late neanderthal-sapien admixture is at its highest in the Basque region.

(here's a link, I know, not directly insinuating hybridization, but I think the heightened potential is clear.) http://www.pnas.org/content/103/33/12643.full

Furthermore, I never actually said that the Basque were Neanderthals, of course that's absurd. If you read my original post, I said that the Basque had more neanderthal admixture than their neighboring counterparts.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3345244/Neanderthal-tools-reveal-advanced-technology
.html
The evaluation of their technology levels is sometimes questioned now. Another theory is that they simply couldn't use certain ranged technology because of their stout bodies that prevented them from running and throwing making spears difficult to use, forcing them to sneak up on their prey and stab it continually leading to the many evidences of wounds we see on their bones.

I find it hard to believe that creatures able to create the kind of technology they could without foreign influence would have been unable to copy the technology of the invaders so as to nullify any type of intellectual advantage that the invaders arguably had.

[Anonymous No.3418585]

>>3418568
"sapiens,"
not "sapien"

fuck that's irritating, why can't people get their own specific name right?

[OP No.3418592]

>>3418585
my mistake, I shouldn't have made a mistake that weak :(

[Anonymous No.3418636]

>>3418568
arguments about the intelligence or lack in neanderthals seem to be based on EQ, a weak metric, cranial morphology, probably more reliable, and artifacts- which are interesting but equivocal.

Your idea probably has as much merit as any, but given the speculative nature of paleoanthropology, behavioral interpretations of functional morphology, and good ol' archeology, I don't see this being a settled argument any time soon.

clone 'em maybe, but we'd still have the question of nature/nurture...

honestly I don't think we know enough about the physiology of our own intelligence to recognize it accurately in others. The artifacts of intelligence can be inconclusive.

[Anonymous No.3418656]

god, are you retards still fighting about whether Neanderthals were intelligent? this is like the fourth day of this shit being spammed. nigga please, obviously the science isn't conclusive; there is conflicting evidence. we are not sure either way--at the moment.

and most certainly of all, some random anon hasn't arrived at some "insight" that hundreds of anthropologists somehow failed to realize.

please, just link to journal articles. (no blogs please) if you too retarded to read or interpret journal articles, then please stop posting.

[Anonymous No.3418665]

>>3418656

[OP No.3418674]

>>3418636
I agree. The only way to ever settle the questions of Neanderthals' intelligence is to clone them when/if we ever find enough Dna to form a composite, complete set. I don't accept my theory as a pure truth as that would be unscientific. I only think that, given the evidence currently available, it is most likely but of course subject to change.

[Anonymous No.3418726]

>>3418674
>>3418674
just some minor corrections to get you on track:

you don't have a theory. You might have a hypothesis or two if you can tighten up the language of your idea.

the primary weaknesses of your hypotheses are going to arise from our lack of understanding of the physiological basis of intelligence. As another anon noted, correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation.

every now and then a person's born with a tail... we can't study them to learn about the hearing ability of rats.

just because one trait is inherited certainly doesn't mean that others are.

however as mentioned, paleoanthropology is mostly speculative crap, we even have scales of confidence to rate most of this crap. Your crap is no worse than other crap that's currently getting funded and published.

[Anonymous No.3418750]

Little thing called "natural selection".
Any negative traits from the Neanderthals wouldn't have lasted long.
Positive traits however, would have spread amongst the rather small population at the time. Making us better as a species.
Interbreeding (even with an inferior (sub-)species), when subject to natural selection is a good thing.

[Anonymous No.3418762]

>>3418726
>paleoanthropology is mostly speculative crap

this, so much. Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this. Every now and then a science news article pops up claiming that they "discovered what Homo habilis's psychology was like" or some shit like that.

[Anonymous No.3418771]

It doesn't matter if the Neanderthals were idiots, or less intelligent than Homo Sapiens. We wouldn't have become less intelligent through breeding with them. That's not how natural selection works.

[Anonymous No.3418783]

>>3418568


>I never insinuated that my theory required that there was late admixture - however the possibility that there was late neanderthal-sapien admixture is at its highest in the Basque region.

That's not a fucking credible theory because everything in genetics has debunked it. Theories aren't held onto like religion.

>(here's a link, I know, not directly insinuating hybridization, but I think the heightened potential is clear.) http://www.pnas.org/content/103/33/12643.full

Did you even read it. it states how the neanderthal site is much earlier, dismissing any indication of "admixture". It doesn't even say they are on par with cro-magnons, just that they have "symbolic thoughts".

>Furthermore, I never actually said that the Basque were Neanderthals, of course that's absurd. If you read my original post, I said that the Basque had more neanderthal admixture than their neighboring counterparts.

But that's wrong motherfucker. They are genetically close as other indo-europeans. Not disregarding how wrong the idea is.

>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3345244/Neanderthal-tools-reveal-advanced-techno
logy
.html

Disregarding the horrible telegraph link, this suggests they had cool tools and bigger brains. No indication of superior technology or intelligence. At all.

>I find it hard to believe that creatures able to create the kind of technology they could without foreign influence would have been unable to copy the technology of the invaders so as to nullify any type of intellectual advantage that the invaders arguably had.

This has been shown time and time again throughout history. Romans wiped out the Gauls for a good reason, Americans did so to the natives too.

[OP No.3418801]

>>3418762
I may be OP, but I still want to point out that I agree with this. My goal wasn't to have some irrefutable truth be brought to light, I knew I was just adding to the Zeitgeist that is Paleontological theories when I did it.

[Anonymous No.3418802]

>>3416028
I'm now aware that OP doesn't know how to use paragraphs.

[OP No.3418811]

>>3418783
I could keep going, but I'll be honest, I'm lacking the will to do it. I'll concede defeat in light of this but I honestly still hold that this opinion is a valid possibility.

[Anonymous No.3418829]

>>3418801
you don't have to capitalize "paleontological," and you don't have to call me doctor... though I'll smile every time you do either.

[OP No.3418835]

>>3418829
... well, I didn't do that second thing, doctor. lol

[Anonymous No.3418850]

>>3418811
You can hold that possibility, but science isn't like a religion where every theory has equal weight.

Take a human evolution class/anthropology class sometime.

[Anonymous No.3418854]

>>3418835
carry on then OP, paleo is the easiest field in science to contribute to. I've seen far worse ideas than yours get published, and yours is pretty bad.