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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3374763 No.3374763[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Usually when i see an atheist, e.g. Hitchens, attacking religion, I can tell within 10 seconds of reading/listening it where they have gone wrong.
But when I read apologist papers, it could take me a few months or at least an hour of internet research to work out where the argument is wrong.

Why do atheist so often misunderstood religion so much? I have yet to see an atheist who has a deep understanding of religion. True, the same can be said for the reverse, but I expect the atheists, who is supposedly less narrowminded, to at least understand the opposing point of view before attacking them.

>> No.3374776
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3374776

>> No.3374807
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3374807

>>3374763
do you mean they're wrong in how they approach religion? or just that their arguments are bad?

>> No.3374815

I could spend hours dissecting atheists' total lack of ability to understand historical context, theology, and philosophy, but I don't have hours to do that.

>> No.3374829

it doest mater what argument they use.
there is no scientific proof that god exists. only thing you have is book written and rewriten to match current world situation.
their beliefs change every 100 years or so.

>> No.3374838

im a person that believes in god, unfortunately the world and the way it works makes me question if there is actually a god.

imagine waking up one day and wanting to be all righteous and live your life with the intent of doing all your works for god.
..your probably fed up after a week, give it a few years and im rather looking forward to the life after death.. its how i feel.

now thats the reflection i have of my god, wanted paradise..woke up in hell.

so why do i still persist in believing in the creator of the heavens and the earth?

out of fear,
i know his laws still stand as firmly as any mathamatical formulas.
what i cant understand is why i drew the short straw.
i do this for the betterment of man, i think thats almost a /sci/ thing to say.
help others when you know you cant help yourself

>> No.3374852

>>3374807
wrong in how they understand religion.
e.g. "[religion] doesn't teach [this], contrary to common knowledge". Or "missing an important part of the story".

strawmen everywhere, reductio ad absurdum elsewhere.

>> No.3374858
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3374858

>>3374838
i feel sorry for you, if your not trolling that is.

>> No.3374859

>>3374829
>their beliefs change every 100 years or so.

No they do not. People still read the same Bible they did 1500 years ago

>> No.3374865

>>3374829
wait nigga, you believe the bible is rewrittten every 100 years or so to match contemporary situations?

>> No.3374866

The word "Gnostic" comes from the greek word "to know" but what "to know" means in greek is the not the equivalent of what it means "to know" in english. In fact the ancient greeks had many words for knowing. "gnosis" being one of many.

What seperates "gnosis" from other words for knowing was that gnosis implied experience. When people called themselves gnostics. It wasnt because they simply believed in God. It implied they had experienced God.

That was the original definition of gnostic. Thus agnostic is simply one who hasnt experienced God.

Some how you faggots twisted it into something like "I know its true!!!!!" and "I dunno lol"

>> No.3374886

>>3374858

true story

just waiting for op to deconstruct me, i wanna learn

>> No.3374899

>>3374866
I think everybody knows when we say agnosticism, we don't mean it as opposed to gnosticism the heresy.

>> No.3374910

>>3374838

>wanting to be all righteous and live your life with the intent of doing all your works for god
>out of fear
>i do this for the betterment of man

And when its convenient to you, you'll just switch between service to Humanity and service to Deity/Universe/Nature.
You are a hypocrite, just like all "agnostics".

>> No.3374919

If I believe in ghosts but not God am I an atheist?

>> No.3374921

>>3374886
op here
sorry I didn't read your post because it was tldr
then i read it
but it was not worth the read
goodbye

>> No.3374922

>>3374919
Yes. Ghosts != gods.

>> No.3374924

>>3374852
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

so this guy doesn't understand religion?

>> No.3374930

>>3374865
>>3374859

The Council of Nicaea you uneducated thrash.

>> No.3374933

>>3374910
>>im a person that believes in god
>You are a hypocrite, just like all "agnostics".
Sure is reading comprehension in here.

>> No.3374935

>>3374763
>I'm an Agnostic

No, you're not. You're a troll.

>> No.3374937

Atheists misunderstand religion because we have never heard a decent account or defence of it. And religious arguments are convoluted, based as they are on defending a conclusion rather than coming to a consensus.

Atheism is just the response people have to hearing unconvincing claims about god.

And try to understand, religion is not a well defined thing. In so far as it is an ideology, examining the real world tenets of that ideology should be okay, and that is all Dawkins and Hitchens and Harris do. In so far as it is a claim about the nature of reality, examining the accuracy of the claims and the trustworthiness of the sources should be okay, and that is all Dawkins and Hitchens and Harris do. And in so far as it is a set of traditions and cultural practices, examining the manner in which people arrived at these traditions and practices, in a historical and sociological sense should be okay, and this is all Dawkins and Harris and Dennett do.

But religious apologists don't play fair. They always want to talk about a different definition of religion or god than is actually on the table. No argument about religion being a bad ideology can have any affect on whether Jesus was god or not. No argument about Jesus's historical accuracy can have any affect on whether religion makes you feel good or not.

>> No.3374941

>>3374930

Also the King James Version was rewritten by James I in the 1620's. And was specifically modified to distance Protestants from Catholicism.

>> No.3374944

>>3374859

That explains why people who followed the bible 1500 years ago would agree with people who follow the bible today on how to live their lives.

>> No.3374942

>>3374838
>im a person that believes in god, unfortunately the world and the way it works makes me question if there is actually a god

Well, there aren't too many things that make me question God, although there's maybe one or two.

>so why do i still persist in believing in the creator of the heavens and the earth?

I do because I've had things happen to me that defied all logical explanation, and because I've found that atheism explains nothing and offers nothing of any value to its practitioners.

>> No.3374945

>>3374930

Christians at one point deciding which books to include and which to not include in the bible =/= rewriting everything every 100 years

>> No.3374946

>>3374944
>implying most people then were literate or capable of reading the Bible at all

>> No.3374947

>>3374946

>implying that's not the whole point

>> No.3374949

>>3374944

They, uh, they likely wouldn't. They'd probably be a lot more killy about it. If they could rad it in the first place.

Hell, even after Gutenburg when most people could read it, they had a much different approach in general.

They might agree with Jihadist Muslims a lot though, that's a good point.

>> No.3374950

That's because most atheists were once theists.

>> No.3374951

>>3374763

You need to understand religion on the same level you need to understand the easterbunny.

As in, its not even worth the time of day even spending a second of thought on it, because it has ZERO evidence speaking for it.

>> No.3374955

>>3374942

It's not so much what makes you question god, so much as; what made you believe in god, and believe the things you believe about god in the first place?

>> No.3374962

>>3374951

Whats with this evidence obsession? Does something only become worth considering when there is evidence for it? Just think about parts of your life that arent substantiated with evidence, like breakfast, and marriage.

Thats part of why atheists have such a poor understand of religion. Because they are applying inappropriate metrics.

>> No.3374961

>>3374942
>nothing of any value
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJVvtOy-ukE

yes it's long i don't care just watch it

>> No.3374965

>>3374961
What the heck does a physics video have to do with atheism?

>> No.3374970

>>3374962

We're not applying inappropriate metrics.
You are just muddying the waters.
Untill you can produce peer reviewable evidence in your favor, get the fuck out.

>> No.3374968

>>3374962
>no evidence in support of breakfast
i sure hope you're trolling

>> No.3374975

>>3374962

So evidence is not a good way of telling which things are true and which are not for you?

Then how do you know what you know about god? How do you weight one claim about god against the other? How do you know god exists in the first place? Evidence? Feelings? Flip a coin?

Why must this be said on /sci/ so often: SHOW YOUR WORK.

>> No.3374979

>>3374955
As I said, I've had lotsa weird experiences and I've had prayers answered (although sometimes in weird and unexpected ways)

>> No.3374981

>I have yet to see an atheist that has a deep understanding of believing in imaginary beings

Makes sense OP, I'll spend more time considering the existence of Santa.

>> No.3374982

>>3374970

In favor of what?

>> No.3374985

>>3374942

Atheism isn't about explaining anything. Science explains things, philosophy can explain things, but the position that there is no god doesn't explain anything.

I would say that a single position on a single problem couldn't do much explaining, no matter what it was.

>> No.3374989

>>3374910

look at my post, i am essentially godless.
i do not walk like i own the place..now thats something to think about.

my inability to switch from serving man to serving myself is something which destroys me everyday.

without god, you serve others or your own best interests.

example,
theres a scam on a reality tv show, i know how the scam works.
today a man approached me and i knew from the offset this was a scam to get me to part with my money.
i gave it him anyway.
this is from a man that has no money.
ever feel like you'v been shafted by yourself?