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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

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3363447 No.3363447 [Reply] [Original]

I created a simple evolution simulator. Creatures are one-celled if you look from the outside, but they do have a brain. They have several attributes such as strength, weight, size and some others. These are mutated when the cell divides. Now, in order for them to develop more complex behavior (than just running around the map and eating stuff) I believe the world they live in must become more complex. So, are there any suggestions? Some thing I thought of: add physics, I've already made a simple physics engine, add different types of "blocks" (yes I do play Minecraft).

Pic related, it's a running simulation. Red blocks are the creeps and the green ones are the food. If you spot a grey one in the top left corner - that's a "brick block" prototype. These are blocks that can be moved with some force, but can't be eaten.

>> No.3363474

CAN YOU MAKE TNT HERE L1KE IN MINECRFT HEHE LOLO?!!1?

>> No.3363469

need information background on simulator

>> No.3363480

Cool anon:

I would introduce sources of energy into the world. Maybe different kinds of energy having different properties. (Long lasting vs quick acting / scarce vs abundant etc)

Also, if the creatures can somehow store information and communicate information that also helps for complexity, but is obv. very hard to do

>> No.3363476

NO!

NO!

SINGLE CELL ORGANISMS DO

NOT

HAVE

A

BRAIN

>> No.3363487

Nice.

>> No.3363532
File: 245 KB, 800x600, dolls.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3363532

I love virtual worlds. Reminds me of the Dolls from David Zindell's The Broken God.

Pic related.

>> No.3363537

>>3363532
is dat sum game of life on a table?

>> No.3363553

food chain.
danger.
predators.
senses.
communication.

>> No.3363576

>>3363537

Yeah, basically the guy had a computer called the Universal Computer (The black sphere), and in it he programmed 'information atoms' and rules for their interaction, and observed the evolution of life from basic information molecules to things like cities.

>> No.3363592

Add trade-offs
You can start with the ones found in nature:
size vs reproduction rate
rate vs yield in metabolism

Add crossfeeding
Add ability to form biofilms
Add public goods

>> No.3363656

>>3363576
that sounds like it would make an excellent screensaver.
Also, I'm still playing that endgame AI thing you talked about a few weeks ago. It's on par with minecraft in terms of addictiveness, damn you.

>> No.3363673

>>3363656
I wasn't here at that time, but that sounds fun. What endgame AI thing is that?

>> No.3363681

>>3363673

http://www.emhsoft.com/singularity/

>>3363656

Cellular automata wallpapers anybody?

>> No.3363689

>>3363673
http://www.emhsoft.com/singularity/
It's a game where you have to take over the planet from a single university computer without being recognised. The interface is clunky, so I recommend you memorise hotkeys and play like a boss.

>> No.3363695

Just curious OP, why are you developing it in python instead of something like C or C++

>> No.3363741

>>3363689
how do i install?

>> No.3363745

LOL PYTHON
gtfo

>> No.3363757

>>3363695
>>3363745

>samefag

It's 2011, and you people are still bitching about others choice of programming language?

>> No.3363758

>>3363741
Download the windows version, open it in 7-zip and then put the folder wherever you want. Double click "Singularity.exe" to run it.

>> No.3363763

The environment must be more complex. Also, there must be benefits for cooperation, planning, and possibly even mind-modeling.

Don't code them in - make an environment that favors them, and make sure your brain models are flexible enough.

>> No.3363778

did the red and the green evolve on their own or did you make them red and green? this is only one scenario plus this scenario had to evole first. the concept of being food for something else wasn't is a concept that didn't exist yet on the frist day of life.

>> No.3363792

>>3363763
Better yet, see if it's possible to obtain the DNA Venter mapped and altered and artifcially create a life form with that.

>> No.3363788

OP try taking a look at other evo sims (Darwinbots, Evolve 4.0, Tierra, Avida), get ideas from them, there's still a lot you could add to your simulation I think.
Add in energy sources
Give creatures ability to drop 'blocks' which require energy to remove
Allow cells to communicate with each other

>> No.3363798

>>3363792
what
He's not doing ab-initio molecular dynamics.

>> No.3363815

>>3363798

Why not? Clearly anyone here has a few thousand seconds of time on a supercomputer.

>> No.3363816

You really won't be able to do much complex stuff with your simulator since it's in python, but its a good start

>> No.3363821

>>3363798

>He's not doing ab-initio molecular dynamics.

I lol'd.

>> No.3363826

>>3363815
Simulating an organism from the protein level is not feasible.

>> No.3363829

>>3363816
2/10

>> No.3363844

>>3363829
Wasn't trolling, it is good for simple programs but slow for anything that requires lots of complexity

>> No.3363852

>>3363826

I intended it as a joke, but whatever. You mean it's not feasible from a computing power standpoint or a holist standpoint?

>> No.3363857

guys you know how computers use electricity to do their calculations and such, and you can develop programs for those computers

and human brains use electrical impulses to control the body too

what if you made programs for the human body that altered those electrical impulses so you could make humansoftware like on computers

>> No.3363861

>>3363815
You wouldn't need that much power, would you?

>> No.3363872

>>3363852

Forgot the tripcode. Ugh Chromium preferences that are incompatible across versions.

>> No.3363881

>>3363861

Well, I wouldn't know. The only experience I have with molecular simulations is making rod logic gates in NanoEngineer while pretending I know what's going on.

It takes about five seconds to simulate a femtosecond, with 1000 atoms in a diamond crystal. AMD Anthlon II X3, 3,1 GHz and 4 GB of RAM.

>> No.3363885
File: 59 KB, 455x451, 1308841202632.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3363885

>single cell
>brain

you're hurting mine, anon

>> No.3363890

>>3363532
WHERE CAN I BUY ONE?!

>> No.3363899

>>3363469
Guys, I got grounded so I'm not able to respond that much. I did make that but I removed it, you just press "i" and here it is.

please, before you start laughing at me because I got grounded - it was a joke. I just can't post often.

>> No.3363915

>>3363885
Did you not read the whole sentence? I said they look like they have only one cell from the outside. And, actually, I'm god there so I can do what I want.

>> No.3363917

>>3363881
jaezurs, I thought we could do better than that. It's probably possible to simulate life at that kind of speed, but not with much accuracy

I'd also like to say that though you are probably aware, you sir are an extremely cool guy.

>>3363899
It takes skill to both troll and explain the troll on the next line. Good show.
Care to upload it to mediafire?

>> No.3363932

looks like shit

if you dont know what youre doing dont try

hurr look at me look at orange and green blocks all day im so smart

>> No.3363943

>>3363932
/sci/ seriously needs a rule about being an apathetic dick.

>> No.3363952

>>3363943
OP detected

>> No.3363955

for a simple thing, make places they like (light and stuff).
then let them learn, so they first have to burn to get to respect them fire, but afterwards they recognize it.
then let them share information.

damn this sounds like fun

>> No.3363964

>>3363917
I sure would love to, but I can't now. If you're interested I'll give you my troll email so anyone who wants the code can contact me: yann.core@yahoo.com

It us

>> No.3363969

>>3363952
jealous fag detected

>> No.3363974

>>3363952
nope
>>3363964
Emailing you now, if it's OK with you I'll upload it myself and see if I can find a place for it on the /sci/ guide somewhere

>> No.3363976

>>3363952
Nope, not me. Even if it was me, whats so strange about defending my own work (even though he was a troll that I don't care about)?

>> No.3363980
File: 400 KB, 1421x765, nanoengineer-fun.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3363980

>>3363917

>jaezurs, I thought we could do better than that. It's probably possible to simulate life at that kind of speed, but not with much accuracy

Actually I remembered wrong, see pic. The ratio is closer to one-second-per-femtosecond... Still, a femtosecond...

>> No.3363991

>>3363980
;_;
That looks like a great program though. I think I might have to download it :/

>> No.3363998

whats this whole dividing thing? birf or deaf?

>> No.3364005

>>3363991
I'll do that too.

Is it open source maybe?

>> No.3364006

>>3363980

Also,

>jaezurs, I thought we could do better than that. It's probably possible to simulate life at that kind of speed, but not with much accuracy

You could abstract the behaviour of atoms and genes and keep a set of pre-fab "standard molecules", with defined properties and interactions, to speed it up. There's a limit to how much you can abstract without losing accuracy, but there's little need to simulate everything down to the Planck scale when the behaviour of, say, atoms, is regular and well-known for the interactions you know will happen.

>> No.3364011

What about classifying carnoviores, herbivores and omnivores? Is there reproduction? The attributes would definitely come in handy for survival (herbivores surviving predators due to speed).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShDZqR-rnGE

>> No.3364014

>>3364005

It's free and open source. Mind you, the company that made it sort of went bankrupt, and a guy I know is the only one who "sort of maintains it", as he put it.

>> No.3364046

>>3364014
Cool!

>>3364011
Of course there is reproduction, but just not sexual reproduction (although, it can be evolved on a bigger scale).

I'm also thinking about making them organize into organisms. Like when they are connected, two of them act as a muscle and they're more efficient or something.

>> No.3364056

>>3364046
Try to minimise the behaviours you hard program into them (or force them into).
Allow them to communicate in some very basic way, that way you have the potential for some more complex behaviour.

>> No.3364088

>>3364056
Yeah, communication seems cool, I'm planning to impliment it. Any ideas on what type of communication? They have eyes. The funny thing is that they see in 2D and they are 2D creatures.

>> No.3364103

>>3364088

>They have eyes
But how do they see? Are there photons in your reality? I don't see any from the screenshot provided..
Better try code in some optics and particle physics before you continue with more complex stuff(quantum physics)

>> No.3364106

>>3364088
Maybe have a variable they can alter and put a 4-bit number in or something, and other organisms can see this number. Then what they do with that information is up to evolution, but it has the potential to allow sending of more complex messages.

>> No.3364107

>>3364088
Try simple codes for food, free space, friend or enemy. Then build in the possibility of lying about where food is.

>> No.3364101

>>3364088

Well if we were dealing with molecules it'd be "reject" and "accept" communication, so the little fucks would clump together or expand apart depending on what kind of thing they are.

>> No.3364118

>>3364106
Also I strongly recommend looking at Evolve 4.0 and playing around with it, it could give you lots of good ideas for stuff to add.

>> No.3364204

>>3364103
I guess you're a half troll or something, because that is a good question. See that pic? The whit circle around them are the "eyes". Purple squares are active eyes. All eyes are associated with a neuron.

>>3364106
Awesome idea. I was thinking of color changing, but then again, it's still just a set of numbers (color, that is). Or some kind of a blink function...

>> No.3364208
File: 31 KB, 1024x600, Screenshot-6.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3364208

>>3364204
Forgot the pic, here it is.t

>> No.3364222

>>3364208
that is a pretty cool guy. did you get my email?

>> No.3364253

>>3364222
I did, I'll get you back tomorrow gotta take care of some things now, sorry.

>> No.3364259

>>3364253
No problem :D

>> No.3364323

Bump for other amazing ideas.

>> No.3364386

>>3364208
So everything in that white field can be seen by them? But why is that field so small then? Image what would happen if you could only see a few meters away!

>> No.3364427

>>3364386
Two reasons.
First: I'm developing this on a small netbook computer and in Python, so processing so much information really takes a lot of time.
Second: something is wrong with my eye-placement algorithm, when I try to give them more eyes they don't form perfectly. Three rows of eyes is the top.

>> No.3364446

nb4 cellular automata and life simulation

>> No.3364464

>>3364446
too late on both counts.

>> No.3364497

>>3364446
...what?

>> No.3365291

How come no one's mentioned Conway's game of life yet?

>> No.3365337
File: 31 KB, 512x384, emergence.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3365337

>>3365291

We kinda all take it for granted.