Lunar self-replicating robot factories

[Lunatic !!h/HxpkvWDAR No.3314077]

/sci/ if were to build a lunar self-replicating robot, we could have it replicate and produce useful products like solar cells, rockets, and space colonies for basically nothing. The only cost there is, is the cost of the initial replicator.

We could potentially solve the energy crisis(build space solar power systems), overpopulation(build space colonies), poverty(build stuff and downport it), and many other problems for the cost of building just one replicator.

Why haven't we done this?

Also see NASA's study on exactly this here:
http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3314088]

We can't build *any* machine that copies itself yet.

Robots are the way to go for this kind of thing, but we'll have to build them and then send them. Self replication is still science fiction.

[Anonymous No.3314093]

>Why haven't we done this?

The pinnacle of our space robotics consists of slow, limited rovers that get stuck on rocks and dust... and you want something that can prospect, mine, refine, forge and successfully construct all manner of supply chains and end products, all packed into one robot?

[Anonymous No.3314119]

Why would space colonies solve "overpopulation?"

Seriously, are we all living in 10x10 squares we call home and limited in movement?

[Lunatic !!h/HxpkvWDAR No.3314123]

>>3314088
Not true, machines have been built that fulfill the feasibility study requirements(aka fertility test) of NASA's study:
http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/3.23.4.htm

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3314137]

The moon supposedly has lava tubes, just like Mars. There's been considerable thought given to how we might seal one, pressurize it, and grow crops inside.

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-01-01/tech/moon.lava.hole_1_lunar-base-lava-flows-lunar-surface?_s=PM:T
ECH

It would be a totally self sufficient biome except for the electricity needed to run the lights. The plants would provide food, air, and handle the waste.

Pic related, speculative illustration from the 1950s of what a lunar lava tube settlement might look like.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3314143]

>>3314123

I've seen that. It's made from legos, and it doesn't truly self replicate. It assembles a copy of itself from a few pre-built sections. It cannot build those sections.

I understand your attachment to this plan, but dishonesty is intolerable.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3314148]

>>3314119

>>Why would space colonies solve "overpopulation?"

They wouldn't. No way to offload people faster than more are born.

[Anonymous No.3314152]

>>3314137

Has there been much study done into plant life in microgravity? Sure, they don't have backbones, but I still can't imagine it's healthy.

[Man of !hySCiENcEY No.3314155]

>>3314077
>Why haven't we done this?

U.S. military spends annually on air conditioning in Iraq and Afghanistan: $20.2 billion

>more than NASA's budget
>more than BP has paid so far for damage from the Gulf oil spill
>$23bn may have been lost, stolen or not properly accounted for in Iraq

Politics. Monkey minds. War. Waste. Foolishness. The weakness of men.

[Anonymous No.3314166]

>>3314119

The vaults were never meant to save anyone.

But seriously, colonies aren't for preventing overpopulation. They're insurance for when overpopulation on Earth implodes.

[Anonymous No.3314181]

>>3314077
Just build a giant ring, 1AU radius, around the sun. Like a giant halo ring habitat.

Population solved, economy, devastated before 1% of the project planning completed.

[Anonymous No.3314206]

>why haven't we made a magic infinite free power and labor machine?

[Man of !hySCiENcEY No.3314210]

>>3314181
Ring would be unstable, although could be controlled with attitude rockets. Would also require something with the density of neutron star matter to form the ring.

Much better to use the Culture's method of a smaller ring in orbit around the sun.

Either way - huuuuuge land mass available. Can't wait.

[Lunatic !!h/HxpkvWDAR No.3314215]

>>3314093
>>The pinnacle of our space robotics consists of slow, limited rovers that get stuck on rocks and dust.
What's wrong with slow? Moving slow consumes less power. Also, current space robots generally go alone, if robots were to operate in groups, they could help other robots get unstuck. Though in a self-replicating factory there's not really any need to get robots unstuck as long as it's able to replicate and produce more robots than it loses(or recycle them).

Also the longest operating space rover, Lunokhod 2 did not fail by getting stuck in the dust, it failed due to cooling system failure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_2
>>prospecting
take out prospect, if your replicator needs to use weird super rare minerals that can only be obtained from small veins of minerals, you're doing it wrong. There's no need to prospect.
>>mining
Take out mine, replace with move moon dust into chemical processing sector.
>>refining
Refining, well that's a bit hard, but not impossible. The main issue isn't automating it, but doing refining without stuff imported from earth, as we aren't used to doing refining in a space environment.
>>forging
A great deal of forging today is or can be automated, but there's really not much reason to do forging on the moon, molding makes more sense.
>> all packed in one robot
Who says it needs to be one robot

>>3314143
It's called a feasibility study faggot

[Anonymous No.3314226]

>>3314215

A feasibility study of a lego assembler? Or a self replicating machine?

[Lunatic !!h/HxpkvWDAR No.3314241]

>>3314226
A feasibility study for making a self-replicating machine
There has been a more recent study done that doesn't use lego, nor a structured environment, nor robots controlled with microprocessors.

Unfortunately, this study is behind a paywall:
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=7967192

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3314243]

>>3314215

>>It's called a feasibility study faggot

First, the insult was uncalled for. Second, I understand it's a feasibility study. That's not what you claimed it was initially.

I said that no machine yet exists which can self replicate. You said that's not true, and provided the lego device in an attempted rebuttal. I then observed that the lego robot doesn't truly self replicate.

That's a valid observation. You oversold it, plain and simple. As I said from the start, no self-replicating machine yet exists.

[Lunatic !!h/HxpkvWDAR No.3314271]

>>3314243
what is the difference between self-replication and true self-replication?

And does the lego device not assemble a copy of itself?

Sorry, about the insult that was uncalled for.

[Anonymous No.3314282]

>>3314271
the lego device cannot produce more blocks...

[Anonymous No.3314287]

Most factories are automated, right?

I don't see any reason why mining couldn't be automated.

I don't see any reason why smelting couldn't be automated.

I don't see any reason why parts fab and assembly couldn't be automated (it already is here on earth).

Yeah the idea of a robot that has all this inside it is a bit sci fi. But what about building an automated mine, next to an automated smelting and metal works next to an automated industrial assembly plant?

AFAIK we only use humans for assembly on cars because for some parts its easier cheaper, but no reason why they can't be engineered to only be assembled by robot.

Instead of cars you build multi purpose construction robots. It doesn't seem like it would be that big of a challenge to design a structure that could be fabricated by robots and assembled by them. Just an engineering challenge.

[Anonymous No.3314288]

What I want to know is why all futuristic cities are efficiently circular shaped, and yet we are stuck with the faggotry we have here on earth, even with newer cities?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3314289]

>>3314271

>>what is the difference between self-replication and true self-replication?

A robot that puts together pre-assembled sections is not self replicating. We will not find the lunar surface covered with prebuilt portions of robots for the first one to assemble.

>>And does the lego device not assemble a copy of itself?

No, it puts together pre-assembled parts. The Moon is not littered with robot components.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3314293]

>>3314288

>>What I want to know is why all futuristic cities are efficiently circular shaped, and yet we are stuck with the faggotry we have here on earth, even with newer cities?

Because circular cities would have to be preplanned and built whole-cloth. Or at least all of the roads, sewers, powerlines and other infrastructure, awaiting actual buildings.

I don't care for the rectilinear grid approach either but it permits sporadic, organic expansion over time.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3314302]

>>3314287

>>Yeah the idea of a robot that has all this inside it is a bit sci fi. But what about building an automated mine, next to an automated smelting and metal works next to an automated industrial assembly plant?

Absolutely, but we'll have to send the components by rocket. That will get extremely costly, very fast. Most likely we'll send them as prebuilt modules that are lower capacity than a refinery on Earth, but it will prove logistically simpler than sending components and then housing human beings long enough to assemble them. (No robot exists that could perform that kind of construction, or it would be in use on Earth.)

So yes, absolutely, we can and one day will send (probably prebuilt) automated mining and refinement machinery to the moon. But not self replicating robots any time soon, as we haven't got even a single example of a self replicating machine of any kind just yet.

[Lunatic !!h/HxpkvWDAR No.3314309]

>>3314282
Of course it cannot, though it does pass the requirements for a feasibility demonstration called for in the NASA study.
See fertility test
http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/AASM56.html

pic related

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3314310]

>>3314309

Yes, but passing that test doesn't change the fact that such a robot is useless for the task you intend, which is making copies of itself on the lunar surface from only what is available there. So this entire tangent has been irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.3314328]

>>3314241
If enough people care I can download a copy of that and reup it to mediafire or the like?

[Anonymous No.3314346]

>>3314328

Yes.

[No.3314349]

>>3314328

Sure!

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3314355]

Lunatic (or anyone else knowledgeable on similar subjects), I plan on writing a 3,500 word essay on asteroid mining. Are there any new developments which would help such a endeavor?

[Lunatic !!h/HxpkvWDAR No.3314359]

>>3314302
>>Absolutely, but we'll have to send the components by rocket.
Not necessarily. One could send up a highly capable robot equipped with up-ported chemicals to bootstrap the replication process much like that described in this paper below:
custer.lcsr.jhu.edu/wiki/images/5/52/Chirikjian02_b.pdf
(link appears to be down see paywall here:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=1159224))

>>3314310
the lego replicator is just as effective at replicating on the lunar surface as a wind tunnel model is at controlled flight.

I'm going to sleep now, but enjoy this video of how FANUC robots are made:
http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=921

I'll be back

[Anonymous No.3314361]

>>3314241
>>3314346
>>3314349
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MSTYXVID

Enjoy /sci/

[Anonymous No.3314370]

>>3314359

By god this man is daft.

[Anonymous No.3314389]

>>3314302

One could legitimize the expenditure on development by the evolutions in automation and efficiency it would provide to terrestrial factories.

This is the reason why we should be exploring space. As a direct result of this venture manufacturing costs and energy requirements everywhere would be reduced. Space development can further the push to sustainability.

[Lunatic !!h/HxpkvWDAR No.3314405]

>>3314328
please do! Up link below if you can too:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=1159224

>>3314355
Let's see here...

There's the Hayabusa(pic related) sample return mission, though they haven't determined if they even have a good enough sample. There's quite a bit we don't know about asteroids, we're not entirely sure of composition and make up. And we need to know all this before we can mine them.
Hayabusa might provide some clues into this.

There were some presentations on asteroid mining at Space Manufacturing 14.(presentations online)
http://www.parabolicarc.com/2010/10/30/ssi-space-manufacturing-14-extraterrestrial-prospecting-sessi
on/

A recent paper suggested some asteroids could have molten cores.
http://geology.com/news/2011/do-some-asteroids-have-a-molten-core.shtml

Recent observations seem to suggest that some asteroids might have ice on them. Ice is really important if you want to do refining in space. Water makes all sorts of extraction processes possible. Hydrogen can be used to reduce metallic oxides and a whole bunch of other fun stuff.

Organic stuff is also good for that too.

You could also talk about NASA's plan to visit asteroids, etc

[Anonymous No.3314407]

>>3314359
12 gauge autoloader
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the .45 longslide w/ laser sighting
>those r brand new we just got them in. thats a good gun, pull the trigger an point the laser wehere you want teh bullet to go, u can't miss. will there be anything else?
phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range
>heyy just what u see pal
TEH OOZI NEIN MILLAMEETAH
>u know ur waepons buddy, any 1 of these is ideal 4 home defense. so uh... which will it be?
ALL
>i'm going to close early today, there a 15 day wait on the hnadguns, but the rifels you can take right now... u cant do dat
WRONG

[Lunatic !!h/HxpkvWDAR No.3314410]

>>3314370
hence the name lunatic