/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3298976]

So no more spaceflight after 8 july?
America Y U so evil?

[Anonymous No.3298980]

Do you mean the last space shuttle flight?

No, they're just not using the space shuttles for transportation anymore. What America will use for space travel is currently undecided, Obama doesn't really care for space.

[Anonymous No.3298981]

You most certainly get spaceflight. There are already planned trips up to the iss in the soyuz capsule.

Have fun hitching with the russians.

[Anonymous No.3298987]

>Obama doesn't really care for space.
that's the point of the thread :(

[Anonymous No.3299078]

The ESA has a plan for spaceflight, the skylon plane.
Single stage to orbit, u jelly murricans/russians?

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299116]

>>3299078
Everyone jelly.

Hopefully, SpaceX picks up the slack.

[Anonymous No.3299117]

Let the robots explore space. Not as expensive.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299125]

>>3299117

[Anonymous No.3299146]

>>3299125

Oh, you trekkies and your starships

[Anonymous No.3299152]

>>3299078
America already has that and has for a very long time now. It's just that NASA isn't allowed to use it and it's for military use only.

Also the EU is in the most massive debt and worst economic condition on earth. There are much more important things than watching the euro collapse.

[Anonymous No.3299155]

>>3299078

>Skylon

I have high hopes for Skylon, but I'm worried it may end up getting shot down simply for being too ambitious.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299167]

>>3299146
Oh, you capitalists and your downsizing of already relatively underfunded space programs

[Anonymous No.3299178]

>>3299152
>America already has that
>isn't allowed to use it
Then why bother mentioning it?

[Anonymous No.3299193]

>>3299167
Your picture is quite ignorant as Obama's NASA budget was an increase. He discontinued funding of Constellation, which confuses many people, like you i assume, who only read headlines and don't really know what is happening.

[Anonymous No.3299194]

actually obama does care for sspace travel. But not the classic kind. Obama is pushing private space companies and shifting nasa more to research rather then actually building rockets.

I think this is a rather good thing to do. What point is it if we go to mars if it's gonne be the same thing like we did with the moon? A one time crap trip that puts 10 people to walk around a bit.

Better to stimulate companies and make spaceflight possible for companies....

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299204]

>>3299193
The picture wasn't made by me.

[Anonymous No.3299207]

Obama's space policies are fucking amazing. Anyone who has actually read them and actually knows what his budget proposals were would know this. (although changed by senate a bit before being passed). My only complaint is that he didn't make the budget 10x what it was. Also he increased it, not decreased it, you idiots.

[Anonymous No.3299210]

You will never go to the moon or contribute as much knowledge about the cosmos compared to America ever.

[Anonymous No.3299211]

>>3299193
Constellation had noble goals, bringing a permanent presence of humans to the moon/mars

But I fear it's rushing it, beyond our capabilities.
Yes we could do it, create a self-sufficient base on the moon, but it wouldn't contribute anything that we can't learn here and on the iss.

[Anonymous No.3299212]

>>3299167
>to

Fucking summerfags

[Anonymous No.3299213]

>>3299204
So? Are you saying you posted it in a satirical manner? Because I can see no indication of that.

[Anonymous No.3299219]

>>3299211
Constellation was eating a lot of the budget and failing to make sufficient progress. Hey, if it was up to me we would keep funding constellation along with 100 other similar programs but in reality that wasn't going to happen.

[Anonymous No.3299228]

>>3299167
personally I think funding nasa is kind of a waste. I remember after the 2008 market crash, I heard some guy from nasa on washington today I think the show is called. He was talking about a satellite that would see how many stars are in a certain space in the sky. I forget how much it cost, but it was a huge amount. I really wish I remember. might have been like 100 million or even more than that. Just think what that could have done for infustructure in this country? i'm pretty sure it was a lot more than that and all it would find out is how many earth like stars are in a certain area or something. Whats the point? I really doubt we will ever be able to travel to another solar system. A lot of people just seam to assume eventually we will be. Maybe nano technology will give us something that can help make the leap, but thats not guaranteed. To travel to another solar system would probably involve a multi generational voyage. So we'll probably only do it when we can't live in this one any more and we have no other choice. And it could just be a huge gamble.

[Anonymous No.3299234]

>>3299228
You think that's a lot? The military gets hundreds of billions.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299239]

>>3299213
I posted it because it was the most relevant picture on hand.

[Anonymous No.3299260]

>>3299234
a hundred million (if it was that, I think it may have been a lot more) for 1 project. A project which may only give us trivial information.

And the military issue is a tricky one. I'm not really a fan of the military, but states need them generally. Outside of satellites and seeing if colonising another planet is of any use, space research is just a very expensive trivial pursuit.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299277]

>>3299260
>Outside of satellites and seeing if colonising another planet is of any use, space research is just a very expensive trivial pursuit.

No.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
>At 1997 prices, a relatively small metallic asteroid with a diameter of 1 mile contains more than $20 trillion US dollars worth of industrial and precious metals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_Earth_Objects#Near-Earth_asteroids
>As of May 2010, 7,075 near-Earth asteroids are known,[14] ranging in size up to ~32 kilometers (1036 Ganymed).[16] The number of near-Earth asteroids over one kilometer in diameter is estimated to be 500 - 1,000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%286178%29_1986_DA
>Asteroid 1986 DA achieved its most notable recognition when scientists revealed that it contained over "10,000 tons of gold and 100,000 tons of platinum", or an approximate value at the time of its discovery of "$90 billion for the gold and a cool trillion dollars for the platinum, plus loose change for the asteroid's 10 billion tons of iron and a billion tons of nickel."[3]

And please watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bIQLiKi3g

[Anonymous No.3299284]

>>3299260
I'm sure the military is needed, but the military doesn't need hundreds of billions of dollars.
Whereas nasa gets an extremely small amount, compared to the military.

[Anonymous No.3299303]

>>3299277
It's not profitable, no matter how many tomes you post it.

We have plenty of stuff here on earth and it's not profitable to bring in massive amounts of gold from space as it would just fall in value.

We can go to the economics of space if you want.
I won't bother to respond to you again.

[Anonymous No.3299324]

>>3299277
space stuff is like crack to some people. I think that guy had his head up his ass in many ways. Especially on the africa part. I bet he really believes giving africans an equal standard of living would produce the same amount of innovation as in america and the west. Honestly, it's kind of like the startrek is a lie. If it is a flawed and unattainable aim seriously pursuing it could be disastrous. A lot of this space stuff seams like a distraction for a lot of people. The asteroid mining stuff is interesting, I'll read more about that. Sounds like the numbers may be embellished. The question on terraforming mars should be is it really worth it? Would it be a great benefit to humanity? or would it be a novelty for rich people requiring massive import from earth? We've sort of been hypnotised by television and should really snap out of it.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299332]

>>3299303
>I won't bother to respond to you again.
About fucking time. I don't care if it's profitable, I care that it is there available for our taking.

Pretend Earth was one lone planet orbiting a star with the nearest stars and other planets 50 lightyears away. You would be quite homesick for our rich little solar system, wouldn't you?

[Anonymous No.3299364]

you know if asteroid mining was really that insanely profitable, wouldn't space research be able to do just fine in the private sector?

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299371]

>>3299324
>I bet he really believes giving africans an equal standard of living would produce the same amount of innovation as in america and the west.

>implying America will secede from the Commonwealth of Britain
>implying they will become the world's next super power
>implying the Germans will go from ruins to the gates of Moscow in ten years
>implying the Japanese will ever create technological goods worth a damn, they're too shit
>implying the Chinese will ever get out of their communist impoverishment
Yeah, don't care.

>If it is a flawed and unattainable aim seriously pursuing it could be disastrous.
Such as?

>A lot of this space stuff seams like a distraction for a lot of people.
Less than a million out of 6.8 billion. Probably. I certainly don't encounter space nuts on a daily or weekly basis.

>The question on terraforming mars should be is it really worth it? Would it be a great benefit to humanity?
The most practical reason imaginable. Staying alive.
Oh, and an ENTIRELY NEW PLANET with a new geography, untapped mineral resources, closer proximity to the Asteroid belt, the sheer amount of investment and then return from trade between the two planets and the securing of our role as a multi-planet species with far less of a chance of dying out from a random meteoroid impact.

To be continued...

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299386]

>>3299371
Remember when /sci/ was panicking about the possibility of catastrophic amounts of methane clathrates being released into the atmosphere because of the Gulf Oil spill disaster? Shit like that had the potential to perhaps cause a major extinction event. Oh, and what about the oceans already warming up from our massive CO2 and other greenhouse gas emissions destabilizing methane clathrates and ocean ecosystems across the entire planet?

We need a backup, badly.

>or would it be a novelty for rich people requiring massive import from earth?
You say that as if its a problem with space travel and not a problem with rich people and/or the system that would perpetuate such problems.

>>3299364
Beforehand launch costs were just a bit too expensive. Now we're getting SpaceX shit and Skylon spaceplane developments with many other prospective companies and corporations jumping into the game. It's only recently that it would of jumped on the table as a practical, potentially quite profitable plan.

[Walkman, Texas Ranger !!O49/3FjwZo5 No.3299416]

>>3299332
>I don't care if it's profitable, I care that it is there available for our taking.
If it's not profitable that means that mining it and returning it to earth takes up more resources than it produces. Disregarding this and saying "huurr but its still there for the taking" is just pants-on-head retarded.

[Anonymous No.3299433]

>>3299416
Second

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299436]

>>3299416
The problem is you assume two things:
1) Space launch vehicles continuously become cheaper for flights to orbit, space infrastructure gets set up, rare earth metals become even more scarce (well, we use a lot of them in pretty much every one of them in all modern electronics ever made.) and omeone decides 'Hurr derp hmm I'm rich and like space, ASTEROID MINAN!' and ends up dominating the market.

Don't say it can't happen:
>Computers will never need more than 640kb RAM
>Automobiles will be something for the wealthy and not for the peasants
etc.

2) Within the next few hundred years capitalism in its present form gets outmoded and transcended much like many forms of economics and governmental systems before simply because technology has advanced to the point where shit like asteroid mining and the vast mineral resources it can provide won't be a bad thing because of its dropping value.

Let me sing you a tale of Aluminium:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#History
It was once considered a precious metal more valuable than gold. Napoleon III, Emperor of France, is reputed to have given a banquet where the most honoured guests were given aluminium utensils, while the others made do with gold.[46][47] The Washington Monument was completed, with the 100 ounce (2.8 kg) aluminium capstone being put in place on December 6, 1884, in an elaborate dedication ceremony. It was the largest single piece of aluminium cast at the time, when aluminium was as expensive as silver.[48] Aluminium has been produced in commercial quantities for just over 100 years.

[Anonymous No.3299458]

>inb4 USG ISHIMURA

[sage No.3299470]

>>3299436
that video was ridiculous. He was basically saying people that view the world as having limited resources are wrong and those believing in infinite resources as right. Even if we spread out, over time resources will deplete.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299475]

>>3299470
>Even if we spread out, over time resources will deplete.
....in 50 billion years?

[Anonymous No.3299486]

>>3299436
Its outmoded now, or we wouldn't burn crops to control prices. Its been outmoded for a while now, prepare for your collapse. We'll be lucky if we make through another cycle

[Anonymous No.3299492]

>>3299475
yeah your right, after 50 billion years, there will be no resource depletion

and it sounds like you are assuming we will travel several light years to another solar system. Something that would take thousands of years, if not hundreds of thousands of years.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299495]

>>3299486
>prepare for your collapse. We'll be lucky if we make through another cycle
This is either a paranoid rant or a clever reference to A Mote In God's Eye

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299500]

>>3299492
>and it sounds like you are assuming we will travel several light years to another solar system. Something that would take thousands of years, if not hundreds of thousands of years.

HUMANS WILL NEVER TRAVEL FASTER THAN 80 MILES PER HOUR
HUMANS WILL NEVER BREAK THE SOUND BARRIER
See where I'm going with this?

[Anonymous No.3299502]

>>3299495
if you think that's paranoid, you are very ignorant about the state of the world. I'm not the guy that made that comment either.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299511]

>>3299502
Let me guess, peak oil rarara America debt rararara disastrous climate change RARARAR?

[Anonymous No.3299512]

>>3299500
stop fapping to space photos. You really think humans will break the speed of light? Or will we some how magically open worm holes?

[Anonymous No.3299516]

>>3299167

Lets not pretend Nasa was doing anything groundbreaking or innovative for space flight. Cutting Nasa's funding was essentially a military cut. Nasa has been pretty worthless for a while now, more or less a jobs program and a bureaucratic nightmare for actually getting anything done. This is one industry that should be fully privatized. A Profit motive behind space flight would do wonders

[Anonymous No.3299517]

>>3299511
do you take medication? I'm getting that vibe from you and it's why i hate psychiatry. It makes people into fucking idiots.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299520]

>>3299512
Because we totally can't achieve relativistic space travel. I am open to the possibility of circumventing physics for FTL travel, but I doubt it'll come any time in the next few hundred thousand years. I hope it does, but I'm sticking with everything below 0.99c.

[Anonymous No.3299536]

>>3299520
i think it's ludicrous to just assume that humans will most likely figure some way to travel the fucking huge distance between this solar system and the nearest one, let alone anything farther than that. Maybe it will happen, but I think in all likeliness, it probably won't. i think we'll know in about 100 years whether it is realistically possible or not when we know more about nano tech. But if nano tech does give us anything that would help us cross this huge gap I think we are stuck here. But really, I think the odds of nano tech giving us anything that would help us cross the gap short of desperate suicide missions are very slim.

[Anonymous No.3299537]

>>3299512
not that guy but
remember this
we can stumble upon unbelievable discovery any second
Implying that we already know all about things around us and our grasp of them won't be changed ever again is incredibly arogant statement.
Humanity in next 100 years can be either extinct or spacefaring race.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299538]

>>3299517
No pills. Probably need them. Don't care.

>>3299516
>Lets not pretend Nasa was doing anything groundbreaking or innovative for space flight.
Except, y'know, put together the entire manned moon missions.
http://curiosity.discovery.com/topic/transportation-science/ten-nasa-inventions1.htm
>Nasa has been pretty worthless for a while now, more or less a jobs program and a bureaucratic nightmare for actually getting anything done.
I agree. NASA has become a political football. Shiiiit, I wonder what would happen again if some ultimatum like men to Mars by 2020 was given?
>This is one industry that should be fully privatized.
Very privatized? Agree. Fully privatized? OH PLEASE GOD NO
>A Profit motive behind space flight would do wonders
I sure fucking hope so. What I would hope is that it would attract largely benevolent companies such as Virgin and SpaceX.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299542]

>>3299536
>i think it's ludicrous to just assume that humans will most likely figure some way to travel the fucking huge distance between this solar system and the nearest one, let alone anything farther than that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bussard_ramjet

[H+ No.3299549]

>>3299520

Welp. Basically everything Inurdaes said.

Also, why does most of this thread seem to have Lord Kelvin's idea of scientific advancement?

"Everything important about physics has already been discovered", Kelvin, 1901.

About 10 years before Relativity, and 20 before Chain-Reactions.

Jesus people.

Not only that but the sheer idiocy...

You know how many people believe the best solution to a killer asteroid, such as Apophis, would be to simply nuke the thing, like every Hollywood movie does? That would just make it worse.

It is Space travel and the resulting industries from it's development that gives us the tools and knowledge to actually predict and counter these problems before they do something silly like kill the whole human race.

The galaxy is likely littered with the long dead bones of one-planet civilizations who made the sensible, economic decision that there was no value in leaving their planet, cataloged and remembered by the few who made the illogical decision.

Which do you want us to be?

[Anonymous No.3299551]

>>3299537
I agree, but if i was taking bets on whether or not the human race successfully crosses to another solar system within the next 200k years, or has a mission going that is viable, I would put the odds if favor of them not. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it's extremely unlikely. Most people just assume that since science advance we'll eventually develop some way. Add to this countless movies and tv shows with easy space travel and you have loads of people think it's going to happen.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299561]

>>3299551
Please do not think I am the standard mouthbreathing fuck that is like OMG WERE GONNA FLY AROUND IN SUPER SPACE COLONIES WITH VULCANS AND REPLICATORS YAY WARP DRIVE

Rather I am a more sophisticated mouthbreather of OMG WE'RE GONNA BUILD O'NEILL CYLINDERS AND TERRAFORM PLANETS FLYING AROUND WITH POST-HUMANS AND MOLECULAR ASSEMBLERS YAY RELATIVISTIC TRAVEL

[Anonymous No.3299587]

>>3299561
Same shit, different smell.

[Anonymous No.3299588]

>>3298976
Accelerate at 1g until half way to destination, turn ship around, decelerate at 1g until at destination.

Sensible long range space travel, how the fuck does that work?

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299594]

>>3299587
What a great comeback! Such a good boy needs a banana sticker.

[Anonymous No.3299607]

>>3299371
>implying the screaming barbarians of Britannia will ever be able to create a commonwealth or civilisation

Laughing Romans.jpg

[Anonymous No.3299624]

>>3299536
Cryosleep has been made to work in laboratory conditions. There was a story about it... today.

You could also build a generation ship. Or, quite possibly, you could engineer a new lifeform who'll live through the whole trip. AIs, transhumans, or something else entirely.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299628]

>>3299624
>Or, quite possibly, you could engineer a new lifeform who'll live through the whole trip. AIs, transhumans, or something else entirely

[Anonymous No.3299641]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEgflwYoH6c

[Anonymous No.3299640]

>>3299607
Germans! ho do they work?

[Anonymous No.3299650]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtKGYIy0X7s

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299671]

>>3299641
That was hilarious

>>3299650
That was awesome. I wanna play Dead Space/2 now.

[Anonymous No.3299701]

>>3299628
>implying engineering lifeforms is impossible
You seem to have me confused with Singularitarians and their vision of Totally Not The Rapture. It is a reasonable expectation that mankind will eventually - EVENTUALLY - learn how to either remake itself, create a successor, or just make new lifeforms that do jobs for it.

[Inurdaes !V1sPhobos. No.3299703]

>>3299701
...I wasn't implying that it was impossible. I posted Aubrey specifically because of his quest to cure aging.

[Anonymous No.3299706]

it's being privatized, and at least in American, private anything is nine times out of ten 100% more efficient. I for one welcome our new corporate space overlords

[Anonymous No.3300156]

>>3299703
what will humanity do if we discover cure for all disease and aging?
How many souls can our planet feed?

[Anonymous No.3300237]

>>3300156
Not as many as the galaxy.

[Anonymous No.3300291]

>>3299470
You drink billion year old water everyday you know that, and if we take the long view (barring the destruction of the universe) For all extensive purposes resources are infinite. Our life spans are extremely short so it seems like we run out of stuff. The real problem is we use stuff up faster than they naturally replenish themselves, because our technologies are horrendously inefficient and we don't manage resources, we indiscriminately consume. If you're on an island with a few people and there is one cherry tree. You have two scenarios, You can devour all the cherries, pay no attention to what becomes of the seeds and chop it down once the cherries are out of season and build a few shelters, or you can make an effort to turn as many seeds as possible into new cherry trees and hold off on harvesting wood until you have an abundance.

[Anonymous No.3300451]

>>3300156
Humanity is a viral infection of this universe...

[Anonymous No.3300697]

>>3300451
just pray that we wont stumble on some REAL Virus if we get to see open space

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3302555]

>>3298980

>>What America will use for space travel is currently undecided, Obama doesn't really care for space.

Both are false. A successor has been chosen and it is, more or less, the alternative to Constellation that NASA engineers themselves cooked up behind Mike Griffin's back when he ignored their concerns about the Ares's pogoing issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System

And as has been pointed out, Obama's plan is basically Mars Direct plus an asteroid mission, and he's actually backed it with the funding necessary to make it happen.

For some reason people who just hate Obama for being Obama can't bring themselves to accept the reality of this.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3302564]

>>3299492

>>and it sounds like you are assuming we will travel several light years to another solar system. Something that would take thousands of years, if not hundreds of thousands of years.

This is also false. Even using pulsed nuclear propulsion which is essentially 1960s technology, the trip to the nearest star system would take around 50 years including the time required to accelerate and decelerate.

[Anonymous No.3302578]

>>3300291
>For all extensive purposes resources are infinite
>all extensive purposes
>extensive purposes
>extensive purposes
>extensive

[Anonymous No.3302664]

>>3302578
I swear, people like you are a diamond dozen.

[Anonymous No.3302771]

>>3302564
cant tell if trolling, you do know that's bullshit right

[Anonymous No.3302781]

>>3302771
>he can't tell when people are trolling!

[Anonymous No.3302790]

>>3302781
Cant tell when trollbaiting?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3302829]

>>3302771

>>cant tell if trolling, you do know that's bullshit right

It isn't bullshit. You believe it is because of what you don't yet know. My estimate, as you'll soon see, was actually very conservative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)#Interstellar_missions

"At 0.1c, Orion thermonuclear starships would require a flight time of at least 44 years to reach Alpha Centauri, not counting time needed to reach that speed (about 36 days at constant acceleration of 1g or 9.8 m/s2)."

[Anonymous No.3302882]

>>3302829
I know about orion its total bullshit. Generating thrust from ablating a shield just wont cut it. Also that shield is supposed to move tens of feet in milliseconds its all just total bullshit and no real agency is going to seriously ever going to work on it again because they all know its bullshit.

What will work is a closed life support multi generational star ship powerd by thorium ractor with Vassar engines. Expect the jurny to take sevral hundred years.

[снайпер No.3302919]

>>3302882
>Generating thrust from ablating a shield just wont cut it. Also that shield is supposed to move tens of feet in milliseconds its all just total bullshit and no real agency is going to seriously ever going to work on it again because they all know its bullshit.

Here is a video of the fundamental concept working as intended: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Lxx2VAYi8#t=21s

Additionally, you may wish to glance over this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob#The_first_nuclear-propelled_manmade_object_in_space..
3F

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3302953]

>>3302882

>>I know about orion its total bullshit. Generating thrust from ablating a shield just wont cut it.

According to who? You? I'm inclined to think George Dyson knew better, as well as the NASA engineers who designed a deep space vessel based on his ideas. (Pic related)

(Also that shield is supposed to move tens of feet in milliseconds its all just total bullshit and no real agency is going to seriously ever going to work on it again because they all know its bullshit.

NASA is a real agency.

>>What will work is a closed life support multi generational star ship powerd by thorium ractor with Vassar engines. Expect the jurny to take sevral hundred years.

This will also work. Both are valid solutions. It seems what has happened here is that you have a preferred pet solution that you feel my proposed solution threatens the practicality of. Either would work. An orion vessel would just get there faster.

[снайпер No.3302967]

>>3302882
Additionally, I wish to point out that you are arguing against some extremely bright and intelligent physicists who have done a lot of number crunching and math.

Your entire argument seems to sum up as: "It was never built, so it is fake."

But you ignore the fact that the real causes of the program to be canceled were the partial test ban treaty, and alternative but competitive launch systems like Sea Dragon which offered similar payload space while not potentially polluting the atmosphere with radioactive isotopes.

Of course, Sea Dragon went and got canceled too... but that is a different topic.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3302969]

>>3302882

>>I know about orion its total bullshit. Generating thrust from ablating a shield just wont cut it.

According to who? You? I'm inclined to think George Dyson knew better, as well as the NASA engineers who designed a deep space vessel based on his ideas. (Pic related)

>>(Also that shield is supposed to move tens of feet in milliseconds its all just total bullshit and no real agency is going to seriously ever going to work on it again because they all know its bullshit.

NASA is a real agency.

>>What will work is a closed life support multi generational star ship powerd by thorium ractor with Vassar engines. Expect the jurny to take sevral hundred years.

This will also work. Both are valid solutions. It seems what has happened here is that you have a preferred pet solution that you feel my proposed solution threatens the practicality of. Either would work. An orion vessel would just get there faster.

[Anonymous No.3303291]

nuclear propulsion is fucking slow we need to go faster.
Imagine now some fags will actually buid the shit and send it so space. Then 10 years later we come up with a LOT better idea and construct ship capable of catching up with Orion! Waste of money.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3303303]

>>3303291

>>Imagine now some fags will actually buid the shit and send it so space. Then 10 years later we come up with a LOT better idea and construct ship capable of catching up with Orion! Waste of money.

Then we're not going anywhere in space until antimatter propulsion is mastered. That should only take a few centuries. Do you want to wait? What if we're wiped out before then?

[Anonymous No.3303322]

>implying space travel is economically sound or pragmatic
Maybe we should consider fixing problems here on Earth before fucking around on alien worlds.

[снайпер No.3303332]

>>3303322
It is economically sound because it ensures the future growth of our species. There are an enormous amount of resources in our solar system, much more than just Earth holds.

It is foolish to believe that the paltry amount of money we currently spend on space exploration would even 'fix' anything in the world, and it is equally foolish to assume that every single scientist should be working on the cure for cancer or new TV's, or whatever it is you think money is better spent on.

[Anonymous No.3303341]

>>3303332
>It is economically sound because it ensures the future growth of our species.
>he actually believes we will live to colonize other planets
12-year-old Carl Sagan fan detected.

[Anonymous No.3303347]

>>3303303
Then we'll be wiped out
unless you don't plan on sending out some sort of NOAH'S ARK with shitload of humans there's nothing to it either.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3303349]

>>3303322

>>Maybe we should consider fixing problems here on Earth before fucking around on alien worlds.

Most of the problems you're referring to are inherent in Capitalism and insoluble under that system. So long as our economic model is predicated upon competition, it will always be stratified such that there are a very few at the top with the large majority at the bottom, living in poverty.

And if we refuse to make any progress until specific social problems are solved, we'll be shooting ourselves in the foot. Why not work on both at once?

[Anonymous No.3303352]

>>3303341
not that guy but
to be fair, if humans weren't fucking asshats OR you could've just brainwash all humanity to serve one goal we could seriously teraform mars in next three decades.
Just take US military budget alone and lend it to NASA. See? pretty good load of money for the start isn't it?

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3303354]

>>3303347

>>unless you don't plan on sending out some sort of NOAH'S ARK with shitload of humans there's nothing to it either.

Orion vessels are massive. It's one of the only ways to send that many people (and a vessel large enough to contain the equipment and supplies necessary to sustain them in the longterm) into space in a single launch.

>>3303341

Anyone who opposes mankind's necessary expansion into space is an antihuman who should be eliminated.

[Anonymous No.3303373]

>>3303352
all bigass military budgets combined make some pretty 1.3 Trillion bucks. PER YEAR!
imagine what things can you do with that kind of sponsoring

[Anonymous No.3303378]

>>3299260
>nuclear armed states need militaries

[Anonymous No.3303384]

>>3302919
Yes youtube video of old guy whining with sappy music is good modern science bro.

Also space is a vacuum, there will be a very small amount of extreemly rapid gas come out of the bomb itself but the vast majority will be radiative energy spanning the em field from low rf to gamma plus alpha and beta. Your wikilink about the metal plate was in an atmosphere where there was an excess of super heated gas to push on it. Which really is quite different. On top of that some experts think the plate was vaporized.

On Orion you could line your plate with water which would super heat and solve your gas problem but this would add a considerable mass cost and if your goal is .1c it really could be killer. I still question the abliaty of the plate to hold up and the shock absorption to function in the speeds required. That's a lot of mass you need to move very fast it just seems indefeasible to me. I'm not usually that scared of radiation but lighting fucking nuclear bombs under you ass... are you mad?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PRNfAAYhT8

Vasimr is not the most efficient electric rocket when looking at newtons per joule or when you look at isp but all the other electric engines I know of have some interactions with parts of the engine and high volovity particles and those parts ware out quicly. Vasimr uses a magnetic nozzle and is designed to have almost no interaction with the particles so it can be made to theoretically never wear out, making it the only decent high velocity engine I know of that can run for hundreds of years.

[Mad Scientist !!Q11PG81nz2n No.3303404]

>>3303384

>>it just seems indefeasible to me.

Well, now you know better. Orion was checked out by the leading minds in aerospace engineering at the time. It was sound. No matter how crazy it seems to you to use nuclear bomblets for propulsion, that doesn't mean it doesn't work. It's an argument from incredulity.

>>Vasimr is not the most efficient electric rocket when looking at newtons per joule or when you look at isp but all the other electric engines I know of have some interactions with parts of the engine and high volovity particles and those parts ware out quicly. Vasimr uses a magnetic nozzle and is designed to have almost no interaction with the particles so it can be made to theoretically never wear out, making it the only decent high velocity engine I know of that can run for hundreds of years.

We know what Vasimr is. I get that you like it a lot. I also like it a lot. Still can't reach the nearest star system as quickly as Orion.

[Anonymous No.3303410]

Here is the plan.

We build genetic synthesizer capable of creating humans and other earth life. We build robots cable of harvesting ore and building structures and shit. You launch a bazillion ships with no one on them all over the two galaxies. The ships arrive at a cool place and the robots start building homes then the dna machines start building the life to occupy the places. You can even have some fly away from earth to return in 100k years to repopulate after the zombie apocalypse or whatever.

[Anonymous No.3303433]

>>3303404

If I where sending men to mars for flags and footprints I would not use vasimr, I would probably use an array of hall thrusters. If I where colonizing mars I would use vasimr tugs. It's not that I like or dislike vasimr it just has its places and on the top of the list of where it works best is an interstellar mission.

[Anonymous No.3305007]

but what about space pets

[Anonymous No.3305015]

>>3298976
Spaceflight is atheist.

[Anonymous No.3305018]

>>3305007
What
The fuck

Is GOING OONN!!!

[Anonymous No.3305038]

>>3305007

HAHAHAHA What the hell is going on here? What is this clip from?

[Anonymous No.3305042]

>>3305007
Why are they smiling? That's not funny, that's just animal abuse, the fact he threw the cat a second time only proves it wasn't an innocent accident.

[Anonymous No.3305050]

I think they are trying to see if it lands on its feet. That clip is sped up. He isn't actually throwing the cat hard.

[Anonymous No.3305064]

>>3305050
Must have freaked out the cat. No wonder they don't have sound on that video. I bet it was screaming in fear.

I didn't know that NASA was into animal abuse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvU9GZjBTzs

I'm okay with experiments done to test medication, but this shit is just useless abuse of a helpless animal.

[Anonymous No.3305065]

>>3305042
its actually an experiment, they wanted to see whether the cat's ability to perfectly land on all 4 paws requires earth-like gravity

[Anonymous No.3305068]

>>3305042
You are a fag that's plane for simulating zero gravity
All walls are soft like baby's butt

[Anonymous No.3305074]

>>3305065
What do they try next? Maybe it would be interesting if a parrot with his wings ripped off can fly in zero gravity?

They should broadcast how they ripp off it's wings. Now that would be research mankind needs.

[Anonymous No.3305088]

>>3305074
yeah sorry, "experiment" wasnt the adequate expression considering that every mentally challenged 3-year old could predict its outcome
but well, at least it looks like SCIENCE

[Anonymous No.3305099]

>>3305088
>every mentally challenged 3-year old could predict its outcome but well, at least it looks like SCIENCE
It's not about if there was any research involved or not. That was completely useless abuse. They could have done the same with a three year old child and laughed their asses off while it was bumping back from the walls and puking.

They were just toying around with a living being. Just for fun.

[Anonymous No.3305104]

>>3305099
lets avoid the whole animal-experiment shitstorm, shall we?

[Anonymous No.3305106]

>>3305104
no

That's some college assholes doing useless shit for fun and sponsored with taxpayers money. Were they drunk? What is this shit?

[Anonymous No.3305109]

>>3305106
fuck I'd love to be drunk on a zero-g flight

[Anonymous No.3305110]

>>3305099
>useless abuse
are you a vegan?
if not, then shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.3305112]

>>3305038
cats spin their body mid-air to try and land on their feet.

You do this in zero G and you get a barrel roll.

[Anonymous No.3305113]

>>3305104
I wrote earlier I am okay with animal experiments if there is serious research involved but these bastards were just playing around.

I'm okay with millions of animals being sacrificed for serious research or for food but what they were doing was just SHIT!

[Anonymous No.3305116]

>>3305110
How about you do the world a favour and shut up? I'm perfectly fine with serious research but not with useless sick shit like that. A living being is no toy for some drunken college assholes whose daddies connections helped them to get a job with NASA.

[Anonymous No.3305141]

>>3305113
That cat was perfectly OK
nothing happened
it was zero G and wall with 40cm thick matress on it.
I can show you REAL abusey

[Anonymous No.3305194]

>>3305116
>>3305113
>defending cat being toyed with by humans
>cats are famous for playing with their prey before they kill it

[Anonymous No.3305320]

>>3305194
Then the cat was eaten afterwards?

Seriously, how old are you, 12?
Cats play with their prey to exhaust it so they don't get bitten when they kill it.

[Anonymous No.3305345]

>>3305320
>>3305320
yeaaaah just like dolphins!
give me a break

[Anonymous No.3305386]

>>3305345
So, either you are a 12 year old thug or you are the average Middle Easterner.

[Anonymous No.3305743]

>>3305099 fag
>>3305088 queer
>>3305064 slack jawed faggot
>>3305116 sassy girl
>>3305320 fag

It didnt hurt him.