/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3292792]

>Overpopulation is a myth
>It'll correct itself
>Global warming is the issue, not overpopulation
>There're plenty of resources out there, they're just not being properly distributed
>Just give 'em education and fix their economies
>Don't worry, we'll get to space in no-time
>Everyone on Earth can fit right inside texas

http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/degraded-soils
http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/areas-affected-by-deforestation
http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/severity-of-land-degradation
http://news.scubatravel.co.uk/2011/06/iucn-warn-of-unprecidented-marine-exctinctions.html
http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/06/15/a-world-of-10-billion/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4171942672579965146#
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/15/MNLD12ADSN.DTL

These levels of denial and delusion is usually attributed to falling civilizations.

[Anonymous No.3292796]

are usually*

[Anonymous No.3292800]

are you saying that you dont think the planet is overpopulated?

[Anonymous No.3292818]

>>3292800
Seeing as how no one could possibly fail that hard at reading comprehension, I sincerely hope you're trolling.

Here, I'm even throwing in a trollface to soften the deal.

[Anonymous No.3292828]

we all agree, i dont think we need to discuss this

[Anonymous No.3292831]

>>3292828
>we all agree
Give it a few minutes.

[Anonymous No.3292836]

>>3292831
i loled

[Anonymous No.3292839]

>>3292818
pfft... both overpopulation and global warming are toxic myths promoted by those who want to kill people

people will solve problems once we identify the real problems. if you say too many people are the problem, then you're natural solution is to eliminate people.

tough story bro.

[Anonymous No.3292840]

tl:dr
stormfagotry = sage

[Anonymous No.3292844]

>>3292839
...jesus christ, please please dont do this

[Anonymous No.3292848]

when will faggots like OP realize that the illuminati is prepping the world stage for a human tragedy that they will engineer to reduce the unwanted desireables of the human species?

they use global warming and other memes, controlling smart people to create false problems.

[Anonymous No.3292851]

>>3292844
don't do what?

speak my mind?

tough call bro, this is 4chan.

[Anonymous No.3292856]

>>3292839
>pfft... both overpopulation and global warming are toxic myths promoted by those who want to kill people

...Scientists, with their evil data and unbiased projections. yeah fuck those guys

>people will solve problems once we identify the real problems.

youre on /sci/ dude, that doesnt hold up here

>if you say too many people are the problem, then you're natural solution is to eliminate people.

...no its not

[Anonymous No.3292861]

>>3292792
>everyone on Earth can fit right inside texas
might be OP. But it won't be pleasent. I live in rural Netherlands and it's just too overpopulated.

And also, where would we go if we're in space? I don't think we'll be able to leave earth for a long long time. We can better try to find answers here, cause maybe we're not overpopulated just yet, but eventually we will be.

[Anonymous No.3292864]

>>3292851
>mind

haha no

> you're natural solution is to eliminate people.

Really? Try thinking about that for at least a second.

[Anonymous No.3292865]

>http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/degraded-soils

This is caused by climate, not necessarily anthropogenic climate change.

>http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/areas-affected-by-deforestation

Most companies in the world now plant 10 trees for every one they cut down, within 1 year the biomass of the mature tree is replaced, within 2, it triples.

>http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/severity-of-land-degradation

Of course land is going to degrade if people live on it. It doesn't mean that it is irredeemable or useless.

>http://news.scubatravel.co.uk/2011/06/iucn-warn-of-unprecidented-marine-exctinctions.html

Wow thanks for the heads up guys. This is the first I've heard of Marine extinctions, also known as Natural Selection. I hope your billion dollar grants get renewed.

>http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/06/15/a-world-of-10-billion/

Nice conjecture there MacLean's a really solid article, but just compiled findings and data from unrelated studies, no scientific merit. How much money is paid for these studies? Billions. Why churn out data that opposes them?

>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4171942672579965146#

That's a cool story there, biased paid off liberal sociologist guy. Some of us are actually busy being real scientists.

>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/15/MNLD12ADSN.DTL

Dead Zones actually fix themselves over time and become rich vibrant ecosystems.

The bottom line is that you don't place enough faith in evolution to sustain us in an "over populated" world. If there is any radical change occurring, it is only natural and life will adapt.

[Anonymous No.3292867]

>>3292861
you said somethin 1/2 smart here, good for you:
>maybe we're not overpopulated just yet, but eventually we will be.

Yes, look at any rural city in Texas, then look at NYC, then look at Madrid, then look at Bangladesh, then look at Hong Kong.

Then look at urban sprawl, then compare to ecological communities being founded around the world based on new principles.

Humans create solutions to problems, that's what we do, and we will continue to. This is /sci/, not a hype factory for the press.

[Anonymous No.3292870]

>>3292865
word, friend.

[Anonymous No.3292875]

>>3292867
ecological communities are nice for the people who have the luxery to live like that. But on a large scale it isn't gonna fly. More than 50% of the world lives in an urban enviroment and this number is growing. People simply need money to survive and that's not available in the mainland.

[Anonymous No.3292886]

>>3292870
>>3292865

same
fag

[Anonymous No.3292891]

>>3292886
umm
no

i hate when people assume samefag

>>3292867 and >>3292865
are differentfag

[Anonymous No.3292893]

>The bottom line is that you don't place enough faith in evolution to sustain us in an "over populated" world. If there is any radical change occurring, it is only natural and life will adapt.

And what did you think will happen? Overpopulation does not mean the earth will explode. It means that we will have lots of famines and wars. Just like now. Life adapts through death.

[Anonymous No.3292898]

>Just give 'em education and fix their economies
>including our own economies

that is all we need actually.
Lot harder than it sounds actually.

[Anonymous No.3292900]

>>3292893

>lots of famines and wars. Just like now.
>Just like ALWAYS.

[Anonymous No.3292905]

I agree with OP

[Anonymous No.3292907]

>>3292792
Well, first of "degraded-soils" is a myth from the 70's. It's not happening on a large scale at all and the land that needs to be replenished needed to be replenished wihout the interference of men. It was allready empty.

The second one is "affected by deforestation". It just so happens that Europe is the only continent thathas a positive growth rate of forests. Besides, the forests today are much more vast then they were after the deforestation of the middle ages and later on.

I didn't have time to check the last one, but ! Overpopulation is not a "global problem". In fact a lot of countries don't have overpopulation problems. Western countries have the opposite problems. There is not enough children to pay our pension. Now Nigeria on the other hand is a land on a continous population boom.

The rest of OP's link are about ecology. Well I believe that the more people the more impact people make on the world but the impact we make depends on how well we treat our planet. To many fertilizers in rivers means we shouldn't be using fertilizrs in such extents and/od in such a manner that they later on cause algae bloom.

>tl;dr:
It's all a bunch of nicely packaged misinformation.

[Anonymous No.3292909]

You're right op, we should poison the water and kill millions of people.

FOR THE SAKE OF MOTHER GAIA

But seriously OP you aren't a scientist and you deserve to die.

[Anonymous No.3292916]

It's like saying global warmin causes tsunamies.

[OP No.3292923]

>>3292848


they use global warming and other memes

[Anonymous No.3292951]

How is the planet overpopulated?

Just wondering. For example everyone in america can fit into maryland if we had the same population density as new york city. With room for parks and such. The rest of america could be used for farmland which would be enough to feed the rest of the world multiple times over. We're not overpopulated. WE have not even started building housing under water where most of the habitable portions of the earth are.

[Anonymous No.3292993]

It's really not that bad.

[Anonymous No.3293005]

>>3292951
UNDER THE SEA

[Anonymous No.3293018]

>>3292951
are you serious that would not work ever you would end up with the same thing you do now

citys on the edge of america

with farmland in the middle you cant put 200+million people in one state and provide work for them

[Anonymous No.3293034]

Bitches don't know bout my Venus project:

http://www.thevenusproject.com/

>Restructure our living, community by community.
>Save humankind person by person.

[Anonymous No.3293036]

>>3293034
Please, please, take a course in economics.

[Anonymous No.3293037]

>>3293034
Kill yourself you fucking marxist retard.

I'm not giving up my property to you.

How dare you call yourself a scientist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

[Anonymous No.3293038]

>>3293036
the same economics that ruined banks and global economies?

no thanks, really, thanks though, but no.

[Anonymous No.3293042]

>>3293037
implying everyone on /sci/ calls himself a scientist

[Anonymous No.3293043]

>>3293038
Actually no, that would be keynesian economics.

Real economics explains why keynesian "economics" doesn't work and your retarded "lets steal everyone's stuff and then the world would be a utopia theories don't work.

[Anonymous No.3293045]

>>3293043
implying I said you need to steal everyone's stuff to transition to a true resource based economy

[Anonymous No.3293050]

>>3293045
Okay fine, do your resource based economy with your stupid little friends in the corner. Gather all the resources yourself without stealing them from other people.

I'm going to laugh when you starve to death.

[Anonymous No.3293052]

>>3293037
Economics isn't a science. It really isn't.

[Anonymous No.3293054]

>>3293050
When the monetary system collapses, a new system will be needed anyway.

So... its good that people are working on other systems.

[Anonymous No.3293055]

>>3293045
no, you're deluded to the point of absurdity. Markets are always going to exist. That's why anarchism fails, if you remove the government markets form, if you use the government to achieve your goals, well, here comes another stalin/mao.

[Anonymous No.3293056]

>>3293050
also implying your money in the bank has any intrinsic value to begin with

[Anonymous No.3293057]

>>3293052
0/10

well you're partly right though, it's more pure than science, it's logic.

[Anonymous No.3293062]

>>3293056
Values are subjective, everything is worth just how bad people want it. Welcome to the real world.

Btw I could say the same thing, - Implying the promise your mother gave you, is worth anything.- Thats money, money is a promise that you'll get something back for it. It's a contract we invented to improve our trade beyond the usual barter.

[Anonymous No.3293068]

>>3293062
touche!

we have a real Keynesian in our midst...

[Anonymous No.3293075]

>>3293057
It's anything but logic. It's performance based ideology, like sports or politics.

[Anonymous No.3293083]

We just need to close wall street, london , paris, tokyo..
You know, get rid of the parasites called share holders.

This only will suffice in fixing a lot of ridiculous shit.

[Anonymous No.3293120]

>>3293083
>share holders.

You mean me and my family and our retirement accounts?

Go fuck yourself socialist.

[Anonymous No.3293130]

>>3293120
"If the thought of eliminating money still troubles you, consider this: If a group of people with gold, diamonds and money were stranded on an island that had no resources such as food, clean air and water, their wealth would be irrelevant to their survival. It is only when resources are scarce that money can be used to control their distribution. One could not, for example, sell the air we breathe or water abundantly flowing down from a mountain stream. Although air and water are valuable, in abundance they cannot be sold."

:-/ see this: http://www.thevenusproject.com/en/a-new-social-design/resource-based-economy

[Anonymous No.3293136]

Overpopulation DOES correct itself.

The results may not be very nice, but If there isn't enough to support the people on the planet than one way or another you are going to have less people.

[Liberty !!nQrIRh+JHbs No.3293151]

>>3293130

> not knowing air and water are sold every single day

[Anonymous No.3293152]

Ah the internet. Where 'socialism', 'keynes', and 'equality' are just snarl words to be hurled like so much poop at the faces of one's detractors.

Where the achievements of the labour movement can be conveniently ignored, where capitalism's crises are blamed on abandoning the gold standard - THE GOLD STANDARD, for fuck's sake, never mind that there were bubbles and business cycles since the start of the industrial revolution.

On the internet, wealth is proof of the worth of a person. Human capital is the only capital, and society is divided between people who are rewarded for hard work, and people blamed for being caught in the trap of structural unemployment - unemployment that exists through no fault of their own.

In the world of the internet libertarian, capitalists as we know them do not exist. The case where people who do glorified accounting and supervising work are rewarded with a massive profit, and where their fellow workers get a tiny sliver of the pie for longer hours, simply vanishes.

[Anonymous No.3293154]

In the mind of the internet libertarian, everyone who became rich did so through hard work, and everyone else is just being lazy. How do we know they are being lazy? Because they are not wealthy. Yet the working class can be compelled to work overtime, while the capitalists cannot. The working class, especially in the third world, has unsafe conditions and is paid poorly in comparison to the vast profits posted by the corporations who buy hours of their lives.

People living in such poverty should be able to afford the extravagant cost of healthcare, thinks the internet libertarian, and if they can't, well, they should have worked harder.

The thought of driving down the cost of essential services by nationalizing them does not even occur to the internet libertarian; he instead believes the opposite. Privatization, rather than driving up prices or slashing quality in the quest for profits, will lead to efficiency. In the mind of the internet libertarian, every market is perfectly competitive. Cartels, oligopolies and monopolies, and above all barriers to entry simply do not exist.

The idea of people working together and sharing their profits equally is regarded with disdain, because of the selfish paradigm through which they view the world. One day, they think, they will climb the ladder, rise up out of the masses and become one of the exploiters they defend. One day they will have a learjet and a private island.

One day they too will be wealthy enough to buy crank economists like hayek and mises media attention like their heroes did in the 50s.

And then, they think, the world will echo with the libertarian battle-cry: "I've got mine; fuck you!"

For the origins of the libertarian movement, see:

http://www.slate.com/id/2297019/

[Anonymous No.3293163]

>>3293152
I like you.


>>3293120
No, fuck YOU.
eople like you are responsible for delocalized industries, for unemployment crisis, for stupid, narrow sighted neo-capitalism.

You and your family are parasites.Parasites are to be eliminated.

[Anonymous No.3293181]

>>3293154
Right wing ideology, neo-capitalism, neo-liberalism etc= cavemen

These people are the vast majority of people (the majority is always the most retarded part, that's not news.)

[Liberty !!nQrIRh+JHbs No.3293182]

>>3293152

Ah the internet. Where 'capitalism', 'smith', and 'freedom' are just snarl words to be hurled like so much poop at the faces of one's detractors.

Where the achievements of the capital movement can be conveniently ignored, where mixed economy crises are blamed on the free market - THE FREE MARKET, for fuck's sake, never mind that there were bubbles and business cycles since the start of centralized states.

On the internet, emotional wants pertaining to socialism and huur derp global warming is gonna get us are proof of the worth of a person. Menial hand labor is the only form of freedom, and society is divided between people who are menial hand laborers and thereby worth something to society, and people blamed for spending less than they earn are evil capitalists devoid of any sort of abor.

In the world of the internet socialist, communism as we know has never existed. The case where people who do glorified ditch digging work should be rewarded with a massive profit, and where their fellow thinking workers should get a tiny sliver of the pie for longer hours, simply vanishes.

[Anonymous No.3293185]

/sci/ducks - don't give yourselves to brutes! Men who despise you, enslave you, who fire you if you don't let them tell you what to think, what to wear and what to feel!

Men who overwork you, drill you, treat you like cattle, use you as disposable raw material!

Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men; machine men, with machine minds and machine hearts!

We must fight for a new world, a decent world, where the advancement of technology can lead to the happiness of the many, not just the few.

[Anonymous No.3293197]

>>3293182
I like YOU.

A system needs to always be in place to reward man's effort. Otherwise progress will entirely stop, and we will be doomed.

fuck socialism.

[Anonymous No.3293202]

How come much of americans are so brain washed by the capitalist ideology?
It feels like a man of science talking to a religious zealot...
fucking americans. Cavemen Country

[Anonymous No.3293210]

>>3293202
McCarthysm's brainwashing propaganda is still strong out there.

[Anonymous No.3293218]

>>3293182

Cool strawman bro.

Worker's control means that everyone who works in a business gets a share in the profits. Manual labourers don't hold any kind of special status.

Socialism doesn't really say anything about how you spend your earnings, I don't know where you're getting that from, unless you think taxes are a form of robbery as your ilk are wont to do.

I couldn't penetrate the dense sludge of a paragraph pertaining to moral worth so I can't reply to that.

I don't see what global warming has to do with this. Are you afraid that the big gummint is gonna make polluting businesses pay for the social cost of their impact on the world?

Or are you just such a loyal crusader for the free market god that you'll latch on to the latest manufactroversy promoted by the wealthy? Are you a veteran of the evolution denialist theatre, or the fight to tell people that tobacco is not a carcinogen?

Hell, you're not even fighting for a free market; you're fighting for the inevitable evolution of a free market: high barriers to entry, oligopoly, wage-slashing and price hiking.

[Anonymous No.3293226]

>>3293182

I agree, socialism needs to be nerfed.

FUcking OP'd, aye?

[Anonymous No.3293230]

>>3292792

Overpopulation isn't a problem in and of itself. It doesn't matter how large the population is, IF you can feed and clothe and provide energy for them sustainably.

Where are all the countries with ridiculously high birth rates? Places like Uganda and fucking Afghanistan. High birth rates, high population growth, but very little resource consumption. The biosphere can support far more Afghanistans than they can support USAs. Overpopulation is a regional problem for those countries and their neighbours, but unless you're one of those slimy libfag bleeding heart humanitarians it's of no concern to us.

The really big problem is overconsumption and inefficiency among people who are already alive, and the future increased consumption of China and so forth. I don't deny that overpopulation could make a lot of other things worse, but it can be pretty easily dealt with without resort to expensive and authoritarian measures like the one-child policy:

1. Condoms for fucking everyone. BC pills for everyone. Yes, even the dudes, they're coming out with those now.

2. End the cultural norm among high-growth regions (Africa, South Asia, trailer parks, etc.) that having tons of babies is in any way desirable. This can be done from media campaigns, family planning programs and changes in school curriculum.

3. In places where women aren't allowed to work, allow them to work. Contrary to what 4chan constantly tells us, feminism is our friend. Two working partners = no time for raising five fucking kids

[Anonymous No.3293234]

>>3293230

Political opposition in the US will mainly be from Evangelicals and Catholics. These groups must be brought on board, and in some cases parts of these denominations are already on board with promotion of contraception. Doing good works by raising the standard of living should trump "subdue the Earth, be fruitful and multiply," as many of these people realize.

I'd argue that it really is global warming that will be the biggest challenge. The political opposition is far stronger, and unlike overpopulation, it will take a lot more than just a culture shift to fix things.

[Anonymous No.3293237]

>>3293230
Proptip: Stop FUCKING FUNDING THEM, cut off ALL foreign aid and finally TRADE with them. This is the only way.

[Anonymous No.3293238]

Ah, the internet, where words mean whatever the fuck they want you to mean.

Take 'liberty'. On the face of it, the definition seems obvious: "free to do things which don't violate the right of others to do the same".

If you live as a pauper in a country wracked by the economic policies of the IMF, are you free? If you try hard you can muster the freedom to live without feeling the pangs of hunger, or the sores of illness. But forget the freedom to any type of leisure activity we enjoy in the West.

You're not free to travel if you dont have the money. You're not free to live healthy if you don't have the money or the public health service.
You're not free to stay alive if you can't afford it.

The 'liberty' as espoused by libertarians is very different. You are free to move within the system but not change it.

You are free to move between shitty employer A and shitty employer B, your time devalued because of the mass unemployment, perhaps caused by a flood of people from the countryside into the cities, in turn caused by a flood of cheap imported food putting farmers out of work.

However, you are not free to demand better treatment. You'll take what you get and be glad.

Dickens' works are still relevant as a picture of the third world as much as they were earlier of britain. Attitudes changed mid 20th century, but now have slumped back to their primeval blame-the-victim state.

[Anonymous No.3293242]

>>3293210
>implying socialism isn't bigger brainwashing
>implying socialism isn't the same as astrology or homeopathy

[Anonymous No.3293244]

>>3293230

True, but sadly the ones that do reproduce are the ones that don't want to work anyway, so they sit at home with their 5 kids waiting for their foodstamps everyday.

When they take away incentives to not work, then people willl start working. What, little timmy hasn't eaten anything besides crackers in the last 3 days? Well why don't you get a job you worthless PoS

[Anonymous No.3293246]

>>3293230
The reason why poor societies have large families is simple. They expect some of them will die, so they hedge their bet by making lots of 'em. Fish, frogs and insects do the same thing.

[Anonymous No.3293249]

>>3293218
>Worker's control means that everyone who works in a business gets a share in the profits.

BAHAHHAHAHHAHAH

How do you decide what is fair share. If you hire me to cut your grass do I then OWN part of your fucking lawn? No? Then shut your fucking face.

Stop blaming the businessmen when they're the only ones brining you out of poverty when the government is fucking everyone over.

[Anonymous No.3293252]

>>3293154
>leftycartoons.com

BAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

Please don't tell me you're this retarded.

[Anonymous No.3293254]

>>3293249
You are a TOOL.
That's exactly what you are, slave.

[Anonymous No.3293251]

>>3293242

How the fuck is workers' control of the means of production "brainwashing".

The real crime is that Lenin was able to cloak his totalitarian regime with the aura of socialism while dismantling the soviets and workers' councils that rose in the february revolution. The leftists who disagreed were rounded up by the reinstated secret police force. And to this day it is the Bolshevik party, rather than the Petrograd soviet, that symbolises socialism in the public mind.

[Anonymous No.3293256]

>>3293230
It's not the "women should be allowed to vote and to get jobs" feminism we rag on.

It's the "women should be given everything cause their women. Go ahead and make the testing requirements for being a firefighter easier for them. Even if those requirements existed because many peoples lives depend on you being able to pass them, they're still sexist." feminism

[Anonymous No.3293257]

>>3293237

>Foreign Aid

Americans (and to a lesser extent the EU, Canada and Australia) have no one to blame but themselves for constantly caving into the demands of farming lobbies.

Where do you think foreign aid comes from? American farmers are subsidized up their assholes, and they make huge surpluses are a result. These can't be consumed domestically, and it would be wasteful to burn it or let it rot. So send it to places whether they want it or not.

A lot of countries would be thankful for ending dependence on foreign aid, which depresses food prices at homes and drives domestic farmers out of business.

Also consider the role of the IMF and big bankers, which combined with farm lobbies really fucks up a lot of developing nations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_and_Debt

[Anonymous No.3293259]

This man is a large part of the reason the world is overpopulated. If he hadn't been permitted to pursue his horseshit with feeding the poor we would have 1 billion less people who contribute nothing to society to worry about.

[Anonymous No.3293260]

>>3293154
>The thought of driving down the cost of essential services by nationalizing them

>steal my money at gunpoint, force me to pay HIGHER COSTS for services which would be dramatically cheaper in a free market
>destroy the economy so people have nowhere else to turn
>destroy medical research by nationalizing the healthcare industry

Socialists deserve to be killed like the animals they are.

You aren't human.

[Anonymous No.3293265]

>>3293257
>Where do you think foreign aid comes from? American farmers are subsidized up their assholes, and they make huge surpluses are a result.

I know dude, fuck it sucks.

Also kill those IMF scum.

[Anonymous No.3293266]

>>3293259
Shut up you nazi.

You can't see the lives of human beings as the lives of cattle. This is not the same thing. People are sentient beings, they suffer.
tl;dr: empathy is a form of intelligence, and you are clinically retarded in this aspect.

[Anonymous No.3293270]

>>3293266

Empathy is weak bullshit and only contributes to the downfall of society. People like you worry more about worthless shits on the other side of the planet than your own nation. Their suffering is my gain.

[Anonymous No.3293271]

>>3293249

Now now, I am trying to be civil with you. Swearing can't help an argument, only coherent logic and a grounding in facts can do that.

"
How do you decide what is fair share. If you hire me to cut your grass do I then OWN part of your fucking lawn? No? Then shut your fucking face."

The analogy is misplaced - you are describing a business and a customer. A more apt analogy would be a lawnmowing business where the mowers take home shares in the profits instead of giving a businessman a cut.


"Stop blaming the businessmen when they're the only ones brining you out of poverty when the government is fucking everyone over."

I'm not in poverty, as I had the fortune to be born into a first world nation with social provisions regarding education, healthcare and workers' rights. I recieved a first-rate education at a state school and am well on my way into my studies at university. I will not have to pay back my tuition fees until I am earning above a certain threshold and the loans are interest-free.

I owe a lot to social democracy. I owe nothing to capitalism.

[Anonymous No.3293273]

>>3293256

That sort of feminism is marginal and probably a lot smaller than you think it is. Feminism in high-growth developing nations would be nothing but beneficial to themselves and to the world as a whole.

>>3293246

Then improving the standards of living is also an important goal. But it's not enough to live safely and comfortably, a lot of places in the Middle East are quite wealthy but still have very high birth rates.

>>3293244

You don't give food stamps to Indians or Africans, although if you pay taxes a few dollars of that goes to the farming surpluses that ends up as foreign aid.

[F. A. Hayek No.3293274]

>people fighting against the free market

>mfw people ACTUALLY fight for their own slavery and reduction in standard of living

[Anonymous No.3293276]

>>3293274

>he believes capitalism raises the standard of living
>he thinks hayek wasnt a laughable crank

[Anonymous No.3293278]

>>3293259

The Green Revolution helped us out too, and its in large part thanks to him we've had such low food prices over the past couple of decades.

Many times we've had an agricultural revolution that allowed our populations to skyrocket: the introduction of the Chinese plow in Europe, the discovery of the New World and the import of their crops, and the oil-fueled Green Revolution of the 1950s-70s. We need exactly one more revolution, and this time, not increase our populations any further.

[Anonymous No.3293280]

>>3293260
protip: private interests =! public interest

Railroad in UK goes private? highest rate of fatal accidents than it ever was while railroad was public.

This is only ONE example but everything works this way : private interests doesn't give a shit about public interest, it doesn't gicve a shit about the service its supposed to offer, it only gives a shit about the money, cutting budgets on maintenance, cutting budget for hiring and maintening qualified workers, cutting corners on quality and safety.

Water, electricity, phone, internet, medicine, nuclear industries etc : should ALL be public services! Never let these vital services in the hand of irresponsible money makers who don't give a shit about anything else than their own bank accounts.

You are a stupid primate.

protip: you will never be on "their side", you will stay a bitter , poor, unintelligent waste of air.

[Anonymous No.3293286]

>>3293274
Hayek

Isn't he a jew?

Of course he will defend the dogmas of its own people /culture/religion

[Anonymous No.3293288]

>>3293286

>JEWS ARE EVIL CAPITALISTS

>JEWS ARE EVIL COMMUNISTS

Stormfags need to make up their minds

[Anonymous No.3293294]

>>3293288
Jews are culturallly capitalists.

Some highly educated jews had humanists ideas and tried to create "communism"

These things are not mutally exclusive, since jews have a huge influence over our cultures (they're often more educated, that's their cultural, traditional thing: education, that's why they have so much ,nobel prizes).

[Anonymous No.3293295]

>>3293271
>A more apt analogy would be a lawnmowing business where the mowers take home shares in the profits instead of giving a businessman a cut.

The businessman owned the business and all the equipment in the first place. It's the EXACT same thing.

> social provisions regarding education, healthcare and workers' rights.
>education
You mean the thing that is bankrupting nations and causing our children to be extremely fucking stupid due to lack of competition in education?
>healthcare
You mean the thing that causes shortages and long waiting lines? The thing that forces you to pay for a service you may not use? They steal like 40% of your income and give you shitty qualities services with no choice. Healthcare would be much better and cheaper under a free market.
Not to mention the lack of medical innovation and competition in countries with UHC.
>workers rights
What rights do they not have? What about businessmen's rights? How are threatening businessmen and not allowing them to hire new workers "workers rights". Union scum deserve to be killed.

You don't live in first world nation, you live in a fucking slave state.

Social democrats deserve to be killed.

[Anonymous No.3293299]

>destroy medical research by nationalizing the healthcare industry

I think this deserves an award for the stupidest comment made all night. The state doesn't care for profit, therefore it can afford to fund research in the public interest, and sell the resulting drugs even at a loss if necessary, if it will help people.

Capitalism will never do anything unless there's money in it. That is a serious failing, and even among capitalist nations it is acknowledged, except in modern murrika, which is on the fast road to the place they sent most of south america. Pinochet would be proud.

[Anonymous No.3293302]

>>3293294
>implying jews aren't liberal keynesian corporatist socialist scum.

[Anonymous No.3293305]

>>3293295
Buisinessmen have pleeeeeenty of rights already : they are about 1% of human population and own about 90% of all wealth.

Shut up , you slave.

[Anonymous No.3293312]

>>3293299
You're retarded.

>The state doesn't care for profit,
THAT'S THE FUCKING PROBLEM, there's no extra money to invest in medical research you fucking retarded socialist.

> therefore it can afford to fund research in the public interest,
The govenrment has to take from society first and then IT gets to decide where the money goes rather than society and investors.

Most medical innovation comes from the market. I don't see the government coming out with cancer drugs and breakthroughs.

>Capitalism will never do anything unless there's money in it.
Not true.

Take linux for example.

>Pinochet would be proud.
He is responsible for the high standard of living in chile right now. Someone like you would have probably killed the citizens of that country. Not trolling.

[Anonymous No.3293317]

>>3293305
>Buisinessmen have pleeeeeenty of rights already

Right so we should take away the rest of their rights. Like the right to exist. Fuck those evil businessmen bringing us out of poverty and providing us with goods, services and jobs voluntarily. I hate being a slave....

[Anonymous No.3293322]

>>3293280
>Water, electricity, phone, internet, medicine, nuclear industries etc : should ALL be public services!

If I was there with you right now I would bring you into a basement and torture you endlessly for days while you screamed in agonizing pain.

Why?

because you're a evil little shit.

[Anonymous No.3293325]

>>3293276
>>he believes capitalism raises the standard of living

HHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHA
HAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAH
HAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAH
HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAH
AHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHH
AHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHH
AHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA


ARE YOU SERIOUSLY COMPLETELY IGNORANT ABOUT THE STORY OF THE AMERICAN EXPERIMENT? HOW ABOUT THE STORY OF HONG KONG?

FUCKING WOW

HOW CAN ONE PERSON BE THAT FUCKING BRAINWASHED, IM RAGING SO HARD RIGHT NOW

[Anonymous No.3293328]

>>3293280
>public interest,

He actually thinks the "public" is a person, with feelings and a family.

lol

>You are a stupid primate.

>kill and enslave people
>call others primates

[Anonymous No.3293331]

>>3293325
>HOW CAN ONE PERSON BE THAT FUCKING BRAINWASHED

Americans. The spoiled, undereducated , retarded masses of america's inhabitant.
God this fucking country.... we should kidnap all the worthy american people and install them in Europe (maybe 200 000 people max) and nuke the rest for the sake of this species

[Anonymous No.3293348]

>>3293331
>he actually doesn't realize that a group of farmers on one of the poorest countries in the world grew to be the richest nation on earth, simply because of free market capitalism

You're either denying this for butthurt emotional reasons or you just don't understand.

[Anonymous No.3293355]

>>3293280
>implying state is not the worst entrepreneur of them all

[Anonymous No.3293356]

">A more apt analogy would be a lawnmowing business where the mowers take home shares in the profits instead of giving a businessman a cut.

The businessman owned the business and all the equipment in the first place. It's the EXACT same thing."

I don't think you quite understand the concept of a non-capitalist firm. You see, if the workers chip in to start the business, equipment is owned collectively. There is no businessman, and no capitalist. The workers are not only workers, but worker-owners. This is the cooperative model of enterprise and it has been shown to work time and time again.

Such a firm is far fairer than a capitalist one, and, if like most of your ilk you despise the notion of fairness as sentimental claptrap, it produces median standards of living that are much higher.

If you were working on a project with a group, and suddenly a member of the group announced they were going to take the profits made and give everyone 20 bucks to keep them in rent, food and water, what would your reaction be?

[Anonymous No.3293359]

>>3293348
I understad that somthing that worked for a certain period of time might reveal itself a poison 4 centuries later.

I wonder what funny paradigm you use that made you think that because something worked for some times, it must work forever.

Are you mentally challenged?

[Anonymous No.3293360]

> social provisions regarding education, healthcare and workers' rights.
">education
You mean the thing that is bankrupting nations and causing our children to be extremely fucking stupid due to lack of competition in education?"

I don't live in america. Children here are fairly bright. In your country, people cannot afford to go to university, hence social mobility is greatly reduced. As america is the vanguard of capitalism, it seems ridiculous to claim that america's schools are failing due to government action. I'll grant that money could be better spent, but you'll get it spent better by teachers, not profiteers, who will be concerned with appearances in order to sell a product.

">healthcare
You mean the thing that causes shortages and long waiting lines? The thing that forces you to pay for a service you may not use? They steal like 40% of your income and give you shitty qualities services with no choice. Healthcare would be much better and cheaper under a free market.
Not to mention the lack of medical innovation and competition in countries with UHC."

[Anonymous No.3293364]

Shortages? Long waiting lines? Have you been watching fox news or something? We're doing fine, although we have our share of right wingers who'd like to see the poor expelled from the operating theatres.

">workers rights
What rights do they not have? What about businessmen's rights? How are threatening businessmen and not allowing them to hire new workers "workers rights". Union scum deserve to be killed."

The right not to be killed for joining a union, for starters. That was a tough one to win. See, the free market yielded mercenaries to beat up people striking to get an 8 hour work day.

Threatening businessmen with bodily harm I believe is a criminal matter, as all should be treated equally under the law. Threatening to stop the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few is not a criminal action and it is a threat that should be carried out.

"You don't live in first world nation, you live in a fucking slave state."

Hyperbole won't work on me, because I actually live here, oh knowledgeable american. You actually think having a more equal society, helping people get a fair compensation for a day's work, giving them security from sickness and impairment, you actually think this constitutes slavery.

"Social democrats deserve to be killed." I see that the two friends of old, capitalism and force, are getting along nicely.

[Anonymous No.3293372]

Capitalism is another way of calling the Caveman Economical rinciples.

This shit is old as humanity.
Time to fucking evolve now, Apes.

[Anonymous No.3293373]

>>3293356
....What's stopping people from doing this now? If it really were better then the people who did this could charge lower prices and drive out all the "non-capitalist firms" out of business.

[Anonymous No.3293374]

>>3293356
>implying a cashier is able to lead and manage a company.

If workers were intelligent enough for that they would be academics.

[Anonymous No.3293377]

>>3293312

Linux was volunteer work, open source no less. That's not a capitalist project by anyone's standards. The means to replicate the product are freely available, making it similar instead to Anarchist Communism, of the type espoused by Pyotr Kropotkin.

[Anonymous No.3293380]

>>3293372
Right socialist brother, we should evolve to more violence and slavery and forcing people to do what they don't want to do.

That sounds moral.

[Anonymous No.3293381]

>>3293374
>>3293373

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cooperatives

[Anonymous No.3293384]

>>3293380
Name the country that waged the most wars these last 50 years.

That's right, USA

And we all know USA is a socialist state and these wars were waged by left wing minions.

How can you be so blind?

[Anonymous No.3293386]

>>3293380

Capitalism: Capitalists own of the means of production

Socialism: Workers control the means of production

Capitalism: 1 person gets all the profits from a company

Socialism: All employees share the profits from a company

Out of those 2 capitalism looks more like slavery to me.

[Anonymous No.3293389]

>>3293377
>Linux was volunteer work, open source no less.
Yes, and the people were able to develop it in their spare time because of the technology capitalism has created, the food, housing, shelter, power and internet needed to sustain them. Without capitalism linux wouldn't have existed.
>That's not a capitalist project by anyone's standards.
0/10


>Anarchist Communism, of the type espoused by Pyotr Kropotkin.

LOL, HOW FUCKING NAIVE ARE YOU? Are you seriously 12 fucking years old. Anarchy is capitalism. There's no getting around this. If there was no state people would still protect their private property by any means necessary.

[Anonymous No.3293391]

>>3293381

Capitalism doesn't mean what you think it means.

>>3293377
A few firms on the margins. If what you say were true they would be dominating, not durdling about with a few companies.

[Anonymous No.3293393]

Capitalism isn't the issue.
Neo capitalislm is.

See, the free market died decades ago.
Now multicorporate giants kill any type of concurrence or when they can't, they meet in large reunions and takes agreeements wich totally defeat the idea of free market.

Free market ? it is a myth.

[Anonymous No.3293394]

>>3293386
QUIT USING BULLSIHT MARXIST DEFINITIONS,

There is no "means of production", you are freely able to develop whatever bullshit you want.

If businessmen don't provide the right services to humanity then they go bankrupt(unless helped by the state).

Socialism is the very definition of slavery. Socialists deserve to be killed.

[Anonymous No.3293395]

mfw reading this thread

[Anonymous No.3293397]

>>3293364
>We're doing fine
Canadian here. Please kill yourself. My dad would have fucking DIED if the US wasn't there. I know you don't care because it's not your family, but my father means a lot to me.

[Anonymous No.3293398]

What if we just emphasized being decent, and not exploiting others for gain? What if we just made those qualities respected in our society? Maybe a large portion of this economic ruin is simply due to the positive reinforcement of greed.

[nospoilertagsonsci];_;[/nospoilertagsonsci]

[Anonymous No.3293400]

>>3293389

HE THINKS ANARCHISTS ARE CAPITALISTS

edgy ayn-rand reading 15 year old detected. Your heroes appropriated the term from collectivist anarchists who used it for centuries.

[Anonymous No.3293401]

>>3293389
You cannot state for a fact that these things produced by capitalism couldn't be produced , as good as, or better than with capitalism, by other "economical" systems.
You simply cannot. So your whole argument based on the fact that linux was founded by using capitalism cannot prove or disprove a single thing.

[Anonymous No.3293404]

>>3293394

HE THINKS MEANS OF PRODUCTION DO NOT EXIST

mfw factories, machine tools, computers, brands and intellectual property are mere figments of our imagination.

[Anonymous No.3293407]

>>3293394

Ah, I see. You are a troll.

[Anonymous No.3293411]

>>3293393
cosigned

[Anonymous No.3293421]

>>3293407
>be a marxist that believes in the labor theory of value
>call others trolls

0/10

[Anonymous No.3293423]

I see the monkeys are beating their chests and tossing poop at each other.

[Anonymous No.3293424]

>>3293381
My country isn't even on this list.

What stops you or any other gifted individual to start such a cooperative cooperation?

[Anonymous No.3293426]

>>3293404
and they can be taken away from businessmen if they don't provide a good service to humanity and competitive wages.

This is fact.

[Anonymous No.3293433]

I'm going to lol when the obama economy fails and the leftists blame capitalism again when socialism and fascism fail.

[Anonymous No.3293437]

>>3293421

Hang on, didn't the LTV originate with adam smith?

[Anonymous No.3293438]

>>3293426

Or they can be saved with millons of our taxpayer dollars.

[Anonymous No.3293444]

>>3293424

Nothing in my field; that is why I plan to start one. In other fields, such as mining or banking, barriers to entry are prohibitive.

[Anonymous No.3293447]

>>3293438

Capitalist ingenuity at its finest:

invest in politicians, privatise profits, socialize losses.

[Anonymous No.3293453]

>>3293447
>implying that the government taking money from a group of people to give to another is free market and not socialist.

[Anonymous No.3293456]

>>3293453

Well it has nothing to do with worker's control, so it can't be socialist. It's not free market either.

Why do people assume that capitalism and free markets are intertwined, while socialism must rely on central planning?

[Anonymous No.3293457]

>>3293444
>implying entry barriers and security standards in mining and banking aren't a good thing

[Anonymous No.3293458]

>>3293453

>implying that socialism has anything to do with giving more money to already fucking-dirty-rich people.

[Anonymous No.3293459]

>>3293456
Because if it weren't centrally enforced, people could opt out of the system.

[Anonymous No.3293464]

>>3293453

ITT: fucking spoiled kids who repeat what they hear on Fox News without knowing how the world works.

[Anonymous No.3293468]

>>3293459

yeah, because people would want to opt out and earn wages instead of make profits.

Do you ever see the owners of a capitalist business give their stake away and go work on the production floor? I think not.

[Anonymous No.3293472]

>>3293457

Are you really the guy who keeps defending free markets?

Regulations yes, capital barriers no.

[Anonymous No.3293476]

The capitalists ITT sound like raging lunatics.

>socialists deserve to be killed like the animals they are
>socialism is slavery
>kill yourself you fucking marxist retard

Coming from someone who has no opinion on the subject, you're not exactly putting your points across very well. This shit might fly on /b/ but here it makes you look like a retard.

[Anonymous No.3293478]

/SCI/ IS FULL OF BETA MALE FAGGOTS.

EAT MY ASS NIGGERESZZZZZZZZZZ

[Anonymous No.3293484]

Everything starts with education. Just because you're some ignorant redneck out there won some stocks doesn't mean you've attained some great human mystery or proved anything. Uneducated people who don't go to colleges cause trouble become ignorant pieces of shits have 16 children and live on entitlements. You need educated people. US is acting decent for the first time in their history. Change baby!!

[Anonymous No.3293486]

>>3293484

On a related matter, why are american rednecks so staunchly capitalist when they are the most likely demographic to be a welfare recipient?

This shit doesn't seem right. Talk about false consciousness.

[Anonymous No.3293491]

>>3293486

Maybe they're fucking ignorant sheeps protecting the lord?

[Anonymous No.3293499]

>>3293491

I think fox news and rupert murdoch's other propaganda organizations have a lot to say for themselves here.

[Anonymous No.3293540]

I mean really. You can see that rednecks turned their racism into something else. They call it capitalism and they're still trying to kill people that doesn't meet their criteria. I mean, hah who are these idiots trying to kid here ?

[Anonymous No.3293565]

>>3292792
>It'll correct itself

It will, just with mass extinction and whatnot.

[Anonymous No.3293572]

http://www.manicore.com/anglais/documentation_a/club_rome_a.html

[Anonymous No.3293576]

Civilization weather… http://weather.gribouille.eu/

[Anonymous No.3293583]

It's already falling appart. http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7924

[Anonymous No.3293592]

>>3293572
>>3293583
forecast over 100 years?

laughingwhores.jpeg

[Anonymous No.3293593]

>>3293583
never post again, please.

[Anonymous No.3293599]

>>3292865
>Dead Zones actually fix themselves over time and become rich vibrant ecosystems.
Deserts

[Anonymous No.3293603]

Actually it will correct itself, there will be massive famines, water shortages and wars and before you know it we will be back to prehistoric population levels.

[Anonymous No.3293607]

>>3293592
The whole book might help getting over stupid laughs.
http://www.amazon.com/Limits-Growth-Donella-H-Meadows/dp/193149858X/

[THE MAD GASSER OF MATTOON !RI5yv6QO3Y No.3293611]

When we run out of clean drinking water, then tell me there isn't too many people on this planet

[Anonymous No.3293613]

humans are overpopulated in the sense that they post a serious threat to the survival of other forms of life, not just humans.
If we do what you suggest and let evolution correct this problem (assuming that evolution can occur that rapidly and intensely in a 20 year period?) Then that would cause so much devastation and many famines and a shitload of death. Why not just show a little discipline and have a little population control so we don't have to go through that?

tl;dr op is a fag

[Anonymous No.3293618]

>>3293611
>When we run out of clean drinking water
>When we run out
>run out

GTFO

[Anonymous No.3293622]

>>3293603

Yes.

And prehistoric wastelands.

Infertile, dry soil.

Polluted groundwater, sickly children.

No bio-diveristy - one plague can kill off most of a species.

Evolution? We've accelerated the natural species extinction rate a thousandfold.

People will get cancer by age 20., and probably revert to dying before age 40 just like in the Middle Ages.

GG Americans

[Anonymous No.3293628]

>>3293618

Other poster here.

It WILL happen in our lifetimes. Wars waged for clean water. Won't be much of a laughing matter then, though.

Fun fact: most of my country's water reserves are being sold to multinational companies.

[Anonymous No.3293631]

>>3293607
Nope it won't.

Meadows and CoR both were at least decent enough to provide a multiple scenario forecast yet you can't predict that far in the future. It is simply not viable.
Look back for the past 100 years and tell me half of modern appliances were really imaginable back than.

[Anonymous No.3293633]

>>3293438
Billions

Hundreds of billions, dude. Not just millions.

WE paid fucking hundreds oif billions dollars for these parasite scum

[Anonymous No.3293645]

>>3293576
What's that, please?

[Anonymous No.3293647]

>>3293633

I fucking love how low-income americunts feign interest in how their pitiful contributions are squandered.

[Anonymous No.3293654]

>>3293628
Oh, I think most of humans will have decreased in population to a point where the water cycle replenishes at mostly the same speed it is used.

Water just doesn't vanish when we use it, you know. That's my retort.

[Anonymous No.3293656]

>>3293647
I'm French, dude.

[Anonymous No.3293660]

i know this is one of the byproducts of a very boring, frustrated life, but realize that overpopulation isn't a problem a couple of uneducated looneys are going to solve, even if it is potentially a problem. in other words, it's not your problem and never will be, so go back to shouting about business/govt conspiracies (at least there are occasionally interesting perspectives).

i understand none of us have the credibility to make a general statement about all of history, but life (for all classes) today is presumably the best it has ever been, and we continue to see it getting better. you can look at depressing numbers and statistics all you want, but there are at least two distinctive approaches to every concept/problem/future scenario, and without the doom-and-gloom part of our imagination we wouldn't have much progress (or conflict), but being a little bitch about something you seem to have 10 minutes of google searching on is the last thing anyone needs to hear. all those people and you sound like you are friendless, gtfo.

[Anonymous No.3293662]

>>3293654
but it relocalize in difficult to attain places or (and more often) relocalize in polluted environments, refreshing it will cost a fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckton of money.


Just a hint for you guys: global poverty = envy towards the rich (who are actively responsible for the aporvishment of the planet by stealing ressources from everywhere)
Envy= angst
Angst = war, terrorism
etc

My point? USA had it coming. And this will goes worser and worser unless you change (which you won't)

[THE MAD GASSER OF MATTOON !RI5yv6QO3Y No.3293664]

>>3293628
Who then sell it back to people for inflated prices in bottles, while allowing harmful chemicals to pollute it, because bottle water has not federal regulations.

[Anonymous No.3293666]

>>3293660
>but life (for all classes) today is presumably the best it has ever been,

You're speaking for less then 1/3 of humanity while the other 2/3 are ressenting us for stealing and ruining everything.

[Anonymous No.3293667]

>>3293654

It doesn't. It just turns to non-consumable forms which you need to filter artificially to drink again.

Ground water levels have been steadily declining where I live, about 20ft in 20 years. I'm not particularly keen on attributing that to the water cycle - something is clearly anomalous and most likely caused by human activity.

The same water contains large amounts of artificially added nitrites, nitrates which cannot simply be deposited in the soil (and shouldn't).

[Anonymous No.3293668]

>>3293660
THere was never that much psychiatric illnesses , cancers, suicides, depressions etc

Our societies are SHIT, utter fucking shit that's making people deeply unhappy about this delusions the wealthiest serve us everyday.
Materialism is waht doom us.

[Anonymous No.3293672]

>>3293660
Might I point out that life for SOME is also worse than it has ever been?

We are not making life better for everyone, we are simply stealing it from others. We are already hitting out point of maximum resource consumption rate... all there is left to do is REALLOCATE that consumption, which gives the ILLUSION of increasing it.. but really all we are doing is robbing others of their chance.

[Anonymous No.3293677]

ITT money worshippers.

[Anonymous No.3293685]

What drives people towards caveman ideologies (capitalism, materialism) is only fear.
Fear of the unknown, fear of not being driven ultimately by some Guide (the businessman, the boss, god) etc
Basically, all these people who hate the concept of "public something" are people who are afraid of being responsible, self deciding people, the exact contrary of what they claim to be. They want to be able to do about anything that they please, while living under the authority of paternalist figures.
Right wing ideology is a Patriarchy, for weak people who wants to think they're strong (that's why they keep calling everybody else "pussies" , "faggots" etc)


tl;dr: right wing = theistic homos in denial.

[Anomynous No.3293687]

>>3293599
>Dead Zones
>Deserts!
Well, wouldn't that be nice if we were talking about land dead zones...
>Dead zones where fish and most marine life can no longer survive are spreading across the continental shelves of the world's oceans at an alarming rate as oxygen vanishes from coastal waters, scientists reported Thursday.
Oh, wait, you mean the article was about ocean dead zones? Well, that would make your point rather irrelevant, then, wouldn't it?

[Anonymous No.3293688]

>>3293645
A place where are aggregated proxy data of industrial civilization collapse (according to the dynamic system approach here : http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7924).). Inspired by http://www.desdemonadespair.net/

[Anonymous No.3293694]

>>3293685
Fear of the unknown and fear of DEATH. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A [The Story of Your Enslavement]

[Anonymous No.3293696]

USA= richest country in the world
USA= best representative of neo-capitalist ideology
USA= still has death sentence in several states (just like third world countries)
USA= responsible for the most wars waged in half a century


Seems self-explanatory as to how capitalism is the ideology of Intelligence.

[Anonymous No.3293698]

>>3293694
Ho yeah, that was my point.
Of course, ultimately, everything we do is in reaction of our deepest fear: dying.

[Anonymous No.3293701]

>>3293685
you want to become a slave of your fellow men in the best case of more realistically slave of the state.

[Anonymous No.3293704]

>>3293036
You take a course in economics

[Anonymous No.3293706]

>>3293696
USA also has creationism, let's just pretend that this is also a result of neo-capitalist ideologies.

[Anonymous No.3293710]

>>3293704
if you have ever been near an economics class, you would know that this whole Zeitgeist crap is a scam.

[Anonymous No.3293726]

>>3293706
Nope.
Neo-capitalisml is the result of people educated like cavemen, lacking any form of SINCERE (not religiously forced stick and carrot type of "mercy").

Americans are still the peasants they were: the same archaic system of values: bible. I'm not meaning to use "peasant" as an insult, I mean it to use it for what it is : people that are rooted into being slaves to their land lord with no ideas of their own, no ideas closer to what they should have instead of the ideologies coming from their masters.

That's what most americans are: peasants by nature.

[Anonymous No.3293743]

Protip: economists are people who embraced the dominant ideology (capitalism and such) and even decided to make these the base of their studies and future work. That's why you never ask an economist if we can exit the capitalist system : they know absolutely nothing of the possible alternatives and the "natural system" they defend are actually their own politic ideologies.

Very few "left wing economist" exist, and the one who do say very interesting things. Like closing all Stock Exchange places , such places are playing with virtual money but real jobs and nation's economy, real life and ma,ny other refreshing things actually.

tl;dr: economy i the science of capitalism, not the science of Economy.

[M No.3293755]

>>3293668
I don't necessarily agree that materialism will doom us, but I agree with everything else you said.

Those of us living in the industrialized countries have lives that are highly restricted by society and government. Hyper-paternalism has made us babies, taking away personal responsibility where we once had it and restricting generally harmless deviant behavior that enables some of us to vent our stresses. We lack a meaningful individuality, which is an unfortunate casualty of technological progress as tribes become towns, towns become cities, and countries begin to form intergovernmental unions. Just look at Belgium with its crisis of identity, for example.

[Anonymous No.3293758]

Jews have nothing to do with how we live.

Jews are only a People that valued social status trough education over anything else. In opposition, tribal cultures value social status trough strength and vital ressources possessions (that's why africa fails in OUR world, ours, not THE world)
So, you find jews where you find people with high education.
Like any other human beings, some are bastards some are nice, many that have access to power are self centered , powermad, rotten piles of garbages.
Some of them are capitalist, some of thjem re communists, some are hippies and so on and so on.

Forgive this parenthesis, I just wanted to make some things I've read here straight..

[Anonymous No.3293762]

>>3293743
not true.

economics is also about analysing different form of markets.
Btw: Do not forget capitalism is just a property order nothing more.
The whole free market thing is a different theory.

[Anonymous No.3293776]

>>3293762
IT is not.
Economists will always look at any system trough the filter of Capitalism.
I've listend quite a few lectures, and they're all the same flavor despitye any nuances you can find here and there.The only different ones emanated from economist that were from left wing ideologies and they're really, fucking rare..

[M No.3293793]

>>3293726
Ridiculous. Americans of the past had no ingenuity. The British praised the American inventive spirit even while we were enemies, remarking how we made such efficient use of our natural resources to build and create not only everything they needed in a short amount of time, but new things the world would soon desire which would fuel their economy. The best minds, and bravest souls of England came to the present day US, so this idea of Americans being peasants is just absurd. As for religion...do you know anything about the Protestant work ethic?

[Anonymous No.3293798]

>>3293755
I think sometimes we go to far in restricting deviant behavior. For example, we want to protect children from predators. Fine, we have laws to protect children and persecute sex offenders. We want to control the distribution of CP? Fine, so we make laws that make its distribution illegal. Should it be illegal to possess it? I don't think so, but now it is. Then they make anime porn hand drawn images of little girls that "appear" less than 18 years old illegal, which has definitely gone too far. Some people will be drawn to children, not all will act on that desire, and unless you take away the imagination that desire will always be there. But you take away most of their outlets, which causes problems.

[Anonymous No.3293803]

>>3293762
OK, economics in its essence has no ideology.
Then again, economics like they are taught and used in the real world is one of the ferocious defender of capitalism (not because they are right, because they are capitalists themselves).
A little bit like the vatican is the ferocious defender of catholicism.

[M No.3293809]

>>3293726
Ridiculous. Americans of the past had no ingenuity? The British praised the American inventive spirit even while they were enemies, remarking how they made such efficient use of their natural resources to build and create not only everything they needed in a short amount of time, but new things the world would soon desire which would fuel their economy. The best minds, and bravest souls of England came to the present day US, so this idea of Americans being peasants is just absurd. As for religion...do you know anything about the Protestant work ethic?

[Anonymous No.3293816]

>>3293798
I agree with that.
But since we have no other solutions (cure or whatnot) we can't take the chances to let these people do harm to our less experienced and more vulnerable siblings: our kids.
That's quite simple to understand. The actions "we" are taking now are by default of better ones.

[Anonymous No.3293835]

>>3293809
I'm afraid Reality can not let you say that.

Bigotism only second to third world countries
Biblic view of life (an eye for an eye, punishment, reward etc) : death sentence, 90% of all your movies are about money and murder
USA waged the most wars of any countries in the world during the last century.
USA is flooding the third world with surplus under the form of "humanitarian help" , ruining the local economies in the run
USA has "God" on its money
USA requires his president to swear on the fucking bible
etc....

lease, I'm trying to bash USA only for the fun of it, or because of envy..but, seriously, look at yourself, open your eyes and just fucking look.

[Anonymous No.3293839]

>>3293835
>I'm NOT trying to

( a revelating lapsus is only revelatory in the mouth of the one revelating it)

[Anonymous No.3293866]

>>3293816
So you think that banning cartoon porn, which is a victimless crime, is a good thing? How can you believe that? So if you draw a picture of what appears to be an underage girl in your apartment, and the police find it, you should be treated as a sex offender? I'm curious which country you live in.

[Anonymous No.3293881]

>>3293776
that is bullshit.

Look at country's with a proper education system.

[Anonymous No.3293896]

THE GEORGIA GUIDESTONES WERE RIGHT

[Anonymous No.3293897]

>>3293809
Weber's Protestant work ethic is bullshit and you know it.
More than enough example of catholics or other religions and their success in commerce.

America is successful despite the religious nutjobs in the country not because of it.

[Anonymous No.3293902]

>>3293881

Well, I'm from Europe, the richest part of it.

[Anonymous No.3293907]

>>3293902
Jesus nigger Christ
this is /sci/ people
/sci/
stop this insanity

[Anonymous No.3293936]

>>3293902
So am I (Germany) and we got god-tier economic classes it seems.

[Anonymous No.3294040]

>>3293936
And the german people has the habit of being a docile people. Hence your good productivity . You're very reliable tools/soldiers. You work great under a constraint because your minds lack individuality, finesse and fantasy (nietzsche said that already, decades ago).
Also, why is german porn the most perverted and disgusting there is? Why are you exhibiting such bad tastes in everything that is of popular "culture"?
I wonder if there's a correlation here ... oh! of course there is, everything is correlated as it is a reaction to something else that was caused by something else repeat ad nauseum

[Anonymous No.3295860]

Bump

[Anonymous No.3295887]

>>3293798
>But you take away most of their outlets, which causes problems

Not as many problems as giving them direct outlets for their problems and vices, which is often called "enabling".

Those therapy sessions that have people punching things to let out their aggression? Studies show those make people more aggressive.

[Anonymous No.3296218]

>>3292865
>Tout est pour le mieux dans le meilleur des mondes possibles

[Anonymous No.3296237]

>IT WON'T BALANCE ITSELF
>everyone dies
>nature returns to normal

duuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr