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/sci/ - Science & Math

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File: 60 KB, 640x447, World Population projected.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3291432 No.3291432 [Reply] [Original]

How could we realistically deal with the coming overpopulation crisis? What could we do today?

>> No.3291649

stop giving them aid

>> No.3291652

start giving them aids

>> No.3291656

Stop researching cures for aids and cancers

seriously, how stupid can people get

>> No.3291658

Sterilization programs.

>> No.3291660

educate those in 2rd world countries about birth control

...but unfortunately they're all mostly religious/superstitious and wouldn't use it anyway. FUCK

>> No.3291666

aid in exchange for sterilization/lack of children

>> No.3291668

Same way it gets dealt with in nature, OP. It's going to be a self-correcting issue. No action is needed on our part.

>> No.3291672

tax the shit out of 2+ child families

>> No.3291677

Politely ask India to enforce a one child policy.

China's already done it. Their population is already starting to decrease.

>> No.3291692
File: 62 KB, 920x657, YGqLYnY5yCpDLL6W7iUrg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3291692

by socializing medicine, governments will render it worthless and the poor will die.

>> No.3291694
File: 72 KB, 328x183, 4horsemen.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3291694

>>3291666
correct. also, 666 get.

>> No.3291704

>>3291649
>>3291652
lol /thread


Stop having children/as many children

>> No.3291744

>>3291649
They use most aid for military power and projection.
>>3291652
With the treatments of today, that will only be an expensive blunder.
>>3291656
Enjoy your aids and cancer
>>3291658
People would violently oppose such a thing (why do you think people dident, don't and will never like the Nazis)
>>3291660
Take it from someone who just came back from Botswana, the people here are not that religious, but yes that would be a good start. Religion means nothing though. I know plenty of Catholics who use birth control.
>>3291666
Nice trips, take it from a political science & Economics major as well as a DOH intern, massive population decrease is as bad as mass population increasing. We need to create a straight line of sorts.
>>3291677
Nice dubs. You don;t seem to read news though. The one child policy is a failure - you want know why? Because Chinese people and Indian people are patriarchal societies which favor sons and males over females. In China, it can be described currently as a massive meat fest and if things keep up untouched there may be no more Chinese women by 2100.
>>3291692
Please tell me trolling

>> No.3291749

The problem is purely economic. There is financial incentive for those people to have lots of children, whereas in modernized countries there is (generally) financial disincentive to have children.

The problem is self-correcting; starvation will get rid of the extras.

>> No.3291755

The third world countries are the ones with large families, industrialized nations have critically low fertility rates.

In the third world you need children for labor and to take care of you as you get older. You need lots of children because life expectancies and child survival rates are so poor.

Solution is to industrialize these nations so that they won't need lots of children for labor anymore. Industrialization will also lead to better life expectancies and medical care. Stop sending aid. It isn't working and it basically just funnels money to the exploitative assholes in charge while simultaneously fucking over the local economy by dumping massive amounts of free goods everywhere.

>> No.3291763

>>3291744

Your assessment of the male/female ratio in China is grossly exaggerated.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html

>> No.3291793

>>3291668
Another member of the voluntary self-extinction project! The way nature tends to deal with over-reproducing populations is with extreme extinctions.

I agree, just let things keep going and eventually, humanity will end itself and the problem will be solved.

If you'd like to keep humanity around, then you have to try harder.

1) Stop sending aid to poor shit countries. All it does is raise the bar high enough that EVEN MORE people can live in abject poverty. It's not moral, it's not helping, and it's not doing any good. Sorry, but people in shit hole countries will die. Make sure fewer of them die by not encouraging them to have more kids that will die in horrible ways.

2) Block off the western world with harsher immigration policies. Instead of a retarded-ass bureaucratic mess, make it simple. Productive people without children can come into the country. Anybody else can not. Seriously, we don't need more poor, dumb people in the western world. The sooner their own countries get saturated the sooner they'll slow down with their reproduction.

>> No.3291803

>>3291793
3) In the western world, move away from such stark consumerism. Half the reason these populations can explode is because western money is flowing in to support the populations by way of cheap-labor factories and resource theft. Stop making it worthwhile to inflate income in shit countries and they'll stop breeding as fast. Seriously, you don't need a third car.

4) Education. Give people in shit countries knowledge. Eventually a few of them will capitalize on it and start doing something other than breeding. They'll learn to live on their own, well, and they'll have less incentive to breed all the time.

If all this fails, we really just need to go back to the late 1800s and early 1900s and just colonize the shit out of all these countries. Impose a sensible rule on them. Make it fair, make it just, and that'll be a lot more moral than letting people live and die in the abject poverty they endure today.

>> No.3291814

>>3291755
That might cull the overpopulation problem at a slow rate, however, it will not cull the consumption problem. Look at the US: a fraction of the world's population, yet, we out-consume many countries.

>> No.3291812

Actually the rate of population devlopment is decreasing. The more people there are on the planet means the less resources they all have, and more disease which naturally keeps the population at an equilibrium.

Petty humans don't need to worry about anything. A much grander force is already doing it's work.

>> No.3291813

>>3291803

The world will never let morality get in the way of profit.

>> No.3291826

>>3291744
What's the problem with a massive population decrease? Other than a sudden abundance of resources which would make an even-more drastic population boom possible?

I think you could easily linearize the decline by the number of sterilizations done.

>> No.3291842

>>3291813
Hey, if there were some way to not only curb growing populations but make it profitable, too, even better!

>>3291812
Well, history pretty much disproves your idea, seeing as how we're experiencing a rapid population increase. Furthermore, diseases have a delayed effect on population growth. They tend to have a high-frequency effect of slow growth followed by fast growth. But never a stable level. You should seriously learn more about population dynamics before trying to make a point about it.

>> No.3291859

I think we're heading for a sudden collapse. A food crisis, followed by millions, maybe even billions, of deaths. Furthermore, I don't think there's anything we can do about it. All we can do is implement population control measures after it happens, to prevent it from happening again. No one-child laws – maybe just taxation that increases with each child after the first.

Who knows when this will all happen, though. It may be anywhere from 15 to 150 years from now. Nevertheless, I do think it's going to happen. A collapse is inevitable. I really doubt that it will just be a slow decline, or a balancing-out. There will come a point where science can no longer increase the amount of food yield, and human-run infrastructure can no longer increase the rate of food distribution; but the population will continue increasing. Then, perhaps triggered by a drought or famine, the collapse will come. And nobody will be prepared for it, or able to deal with it, except maybe a few of the more developped nations, and the rich people in the others.

>> No.3291862

do nothing

its a self-solving problem

>> No.3291877

One child laws or at least things that heavily discourage large families.
More money for SCIENCE
More efficient way to grow crops
Ways to get off world.
Slow colonization effort.
>mfw Uncharted Worlds cues up as I began typing "Ways to get off world"

>> No.3291907

>>3291877
How is escaping the earth going to solve the problem for the people on it? Only the rich and well-to-do in developed nations would be able to... oooh, I see! :)

>> No.3291922

>>3291907
Because the later you start, the harder it is to get off-worlding infrastructure in place for when you need it more urgently.
It'd be like a small island population trying to leave it to claim other lands, but they only start it when UH OH WE HAVE WAY TOO MANY PEOPLE AND NOT ENOUGH LAND NOR FOOD, as opposed to starting it up earlier, having docs, boat/ship building facilities in place, established techniques of building ships, and then leaving the island when they realize all its resources have been stripped.

>> No.3291954

Sex education

>> No.3291969

1. Invent geth
2. Flee Earth, wait several generations of being space gypsies
3. ???
4. Repopulate Earth with 17 million humans

>> No.3291985

>>3291814
we are 3rd in terms of population...

>> No.3291989

>>3291969
Fuck yes, mass effect
Now, to discover or forge the mass relays.

>> No.3291999
File: 329 KB, 1920x1080, 2011-04-16_00026.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3291999

>>3291989

>> No.3292016

Development tends to reduce the fertility rate, so we have to kill all black people because they are incapable of development.

>> No.3292026

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJAlIHsXcLY


Let's Have A War Lyrics
Artist(Band):Fear
Review The Song (0)
Print the Lyrics
[Chorus:]

[Growling]
There's so many of us
There's so many of us
There's so many
There's so many of us
There's so many of us
There's so many [x2]

[Sung]
Let's have a war
So you can go and die!
Let's have a war!
We could all use the money!
Let's have a war!
We need the space!
Let's have a war!
Clean out this place!

It already started in the city!
Suburbia will be just as easy!

[Chorus]

Let's have a war!
Jack up the Dow Jones!
Let's have a war!
It can start in New Jersey!
Let's have a war!
Blame it on the middle-class!
Let's have a war!
We're like rats in a cage!

It already started in the city!
Suburbia will be just as easy!

[Chorus]

Let's have a war!
Sell the rights to the networks!
Let's have a war!
General Motors get fat like last time!
Let's have a war!
Give guns to the queers!
Let's have a war!
The enemy's within!

It already started in the city!
Suburbia will be just as easy!

[Chorus x2]

>> No.3292037
File: 72 KB, 711x451, 1307505549549.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3292037

keep worthy aryan (european, persian, indian, afghani) and asian stock alive. Manage other humanoids as lower lifeforms and control their breeding while giving them a decent quality of life. Tag all jews with monitor chips to keep an eye on their activities. Problem solved.

>> No.3292040

the problem with the human species is that the only factors controlling it's growth is the birth rate/death rate as well as diseases and more intensely food and water. the human species unlike other species does not have a natural predator and thus why it's growth is always dynamic, because there are not enough factors to stabilize it's growth unlike other species in it's own habitats

>> No.3292048

>>3291969
ok but what would that do really? within 100, 200, 300,... years it would all happen again

>> No.3292057

bombs?

>> No.3292075

>>3292048
All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.

>> No.3292073

ITT: Everyone is a shit-spewing fucktard (or at least misinformed).

Populations is actually in decline in most industrialized countries. In third world countries, the population is increasing however the growth rate is slowing down and is predicted to be stable by 2050 and enter into decline by 2100.

>> No.3292092

>>3291826
>What's the problem with a massive population decrease?

Once the rate of population growth falls below 1.8 it becomes nearly impossible to stop the collapse of the civilization, below 1.6 there is no economic model anywhere that would support the restoration of the civilization, and below 1.3 is a sign of impending collapse.

>> No.3292106

>>3292073
Because, by then, there won't be any problems related to population increase; in fact, there are none now. May we all be optimistic towards the 9B mark before it slides down. Good times for all.

>> No.3292108

>>3292092
1.8 what?

>> No.3292117

>>3292106

A population doesn't shrink then increase again unless the depopulation is caused by war, starvation, or pestilence.

If it just shrinks, it doesn't stop until it disappears.

Study some history.

>> No.3292121

>>3292108

2 parents, 2.0 kids or more over the total population.

1.8 is one child for the parents or less over the total population.

>> No.3292125

>>3292121
>2 parents, 2.0 kids or more over the total population.
^That is stability.

>> No.3292129

>>3292121
Ah gotcha.

>> No.3292152

The weird thing is, we need the population to keep growing if we are to continue.

If we overpopulate, everything collapses.

If population decreases, everything collapses.

We're kind of fucked either way.

>> No.3292156

>>3292152
This is why we NEED a massive war, massive starvation crisis, or a massive plague.

>> No.3292158

>>3292152
That's why we need glorious space travel

>> No.3292176

>>3292158
Too late now. We need the military to secure the resources we need.

The best time to have launched humanity into space and create interplanetary habitation was the 1920s.

We needed those resources for everything else after that.

>> No.3292183

>>3292073
The assumption there is that industrialization will effect the birth rate and stabilize it. If industrialization doesn't occur, there's a huge exponential growth.

>>3292092
I need a citation for that. Not that I think you're lying or stupid, but it doesn't make sense. Many populations go through periods of decline and increase. It's not an equilibrium population, but it is stable in the sense that the variations are natural. And what exactly is the problem with, say, a slow decline. Put the population growth at 1.85, and the loss rate is 15%. What's stopping a population from returning to a 2.0 rate after a period of 1.85? Or even 1.6? Now, I can see that at some stage, you'd have so many people dying off that it would effect daily life. But most people only have to deal with a few close relatives dying every decade.

>> No.3292184

>>3292075
so it's not a permanent solution to human overpopulation.

therefore invalid

>> No.3292192

>>3292183
>Many populations go through periods of decline and increase.
When it is caused by war, starvation, or pestilence, that's okay.

Getting those sources now, but I'm cooking dinner too, so It won't be fast.

>> No.3292200

>>3292192
I can wait, I know how good it is to fix a decent meal.

I'm thinking more of cyclic populations. Granted, these are in predator prey models, but still it shows that a population can die a lot faster than it reproduces for a while. Once the pressure keeping the rate below 2.0 is removed, it goes well above 2.0 until the large population drives it down again.

Granted, I'm not in favor of a sudden 3.0 rate with humans after a semi-extinction, but it shows that a replacement rate of less than 2.0 isn't the kiss of death.

>> No.3292226
File: 77 KB, 300x297, a-modest-proposal.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3292226

Pic fucking related

>> No.3292236

>>3292226
but that was satire. plus, I don't want to eat AIDS.

>> No.3292237

>>3292200
This is related, but not what I'm talking avout as far as population is concerned.

Dammnit, shits already boi

>> No.3292247

>>3292226
perfect solution

>> No.3292248

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_bottleneck

Also related, but still specifically not what I'm looking for.

FUCK, I CAN'T FUCKING GOOGLE-FU TODAY!

>> No.3292344

>>3292248
FINALLY.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_fertility_rate

Still not the good historical sources I want, but now I'm at least finding the topic I want.

>> No.3292356

This is the topic I was talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-replacement_fertility

Now, to find the historical examples that apply to the collapse of a civilization.

>> No.3292379

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse:_How_Societies_Choose_to_Fail_or_Succeed

ESH. I'm only getting on-topic hits on wikipedia.

I was reading different sources, but I can't fucking find them. There was several that discussed the whole "Once the rate of population growth falls below 1.8 it becomes nearly impossible to stop the collapse of the civilization, below 1.6 there is no economic model anywhere that would support the restoration of the civilization, and below 1.3 is a sign of impending collapse." I mentioned earlier, but I can't fucking find them now.

RAAAAAAAGE

>> No.3292385

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Tainter#Diminishing_returns

>> No.3292392

STOP AIDING STARVING CHILDREN.
This is the best way to turn the trend around.
Also, on the same note, STOP OVERPRODUCING FOOD

>> No.3292397

>>3292379
"no economic model anywhere that would support the restoration of the civilization"

that's because economies are all bullshit and are linear systems in a cyclical world. actually, there is most likely an economic model somewhere, but it's not called an economic model because it would make too much fucking sense and sound too good.

For examples of failed civilizations see; middle america and southern north-america. where people took up agriculture and "cities" and "economies" and then were like "you know what? fuck this, this sucks" and dispersed back to their old way of life.

>> No.3292433

>>3292397
Libertarianism, it worked for New-Zealand.

>> No.3292448

>>3292433
Sure, if everyone is poor, inbred, and thieves.

Oh, you've never been there? You SHOULD go.

It's like a magical libertarian utopia, full of freedom and liberty for all.

>> No.3292471

>>3291432

it wont happen... population levels out nations become first world

>> No.3292474 [DELETED] 

>>3291649
>implying aid enhance their welfare

yfw higher life standards in Africa would lead to lower birth rates.

>> No.3292480

>>3292471
this world wide birth rate halved in the last quarter of the century and it will continue to fall with increasing welfare in developing countries.

>> No.3292491

>>3292474
Aid does nothing to help them. They end up having kids, and then the aid stops and the kids starve.

They need to have permanent improvements that they can maintain.

>> No.3292505

Let population as a function of time be noted as P(t).

dP/dt is positive for the time being

BUT

d/dt(dP/dt) is NEGATIVE! It's the coming population DECLINE we need to worry about. Just read up on the recent UN studies on population growth in industrialized societies and the trend of children from agrarian to advanced societies.

>> No.3292530

Maybe another Bhopal... or Chernobyl

>> No.3292539

>>3292530
>Chernobyl killed a lot of people.
God damn it. Knock that shit off.