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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3267026 No.3267026 [Reply] [Original]

Should Evolution be taught in high school?

Here are my arguments against it:

1) Evolutionary concepts are not a requisite for the understanding of biology, but is merely the end product of an understanding of basic concepts in genetics. The implications of which would naturally be derived by an intuitive and/or inquisitive student. We don't need to teach high school students about evolution to teach them a basic understanding of genetics, microbiology and the interaction of organisms within their ecosystems; only the reverse is true.

2) Evolution serves as a rallying point for religion to attack and inhibit science and biology as a whole. (Fallacies such as connecting The Big Bang Theory to Evolution to Atheism. Lets face it, we're all sick of it.) Teaching evolution to idiots only strengthens the religious community.

3) By not teaching evolution in high school, it is more likely than not that the brighter youngsters would go out of their way to learn more about it anyway.

Now is not the time to laud Darwin and fight the tide of ignorance. We are overwhelmed, and we have to adapt.

Pic related, its Eevee, a common ancestor for discontinuous variation.

>> No.3267044

But how can you become a good Pokemon trainer without understanding evolution?

>> No.3267057

>>3267044

Common fallacy:

>One needs to understand evolution to become a pokemon master.

Not true. Ash's pikachu has never evolved. If Ash had known two shits about evolution he would have given pikachu a thunderstone. But alas, he became a pokemon master nonetheless, proving once and for all that understanding evolution is not a requisite for becoming a good pokemon trainer, rather only determination, love, and a nice hat will suffice.

>> No.3267058
File: 7 KB, 208x192, jolteon..jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3267058

Master race reporting in.

>> No.3267066

>>3267057
>ash
>ever becoming a pokemon master
lol no

>> No.3267071
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3267071

>>3267026
>doesn't want evolution in high school

>> No.3267069

>>3267057
>But alas, he became a pokemon master nonetheless

[citation needed]

No, he fucking didn't. He's still as shit as he ever was.

>> No.3267072

2) - Let the religious fanatics win.

>> No.3267080

>>3267069
>>3267066

>Are clearly oblivious of the Japanese manga series where Satoshi (Ash) eventually defeats the elite four at Indigo Plateu.

>> No.3267081

>>The implications of which would naturally be derived by an intuitive and/or inquisitive student

>>an intuitive and/or inquisitive student

That's where you mess up. Very few students are actually inquisitive and only learn what you tell them to learn without thinking any further. That's why you see all these dumbfags on this board trying to boost their memory performance so they can ace tests.

People don't actually try to learn today, so the more you can chuck into their memory, the better, I suppose.

>> No.3267082
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3267082

>>3267026

Tell us the true OP, you want it not to be taught because politically-correctness, right? You are American, right? Please learn that this way you are KILLING the freedom in your country as well here in Europe. It's ridiculous how many things are not to be said there just because someone will be upset about it. COME ON!

Btw, thanks to Pokemon to put evolution on new generations minds since early age.

>> No.3267087

>>3267080
Bitch please, my 5 year old brother could defeat the elite four. He is no pokemon master

>> No.3267088
File: 128 KB, 628x802, 186056-Batman-DC-Harley-Quinn-Poison-Ivy-Trystalk.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3267088

>>3267026
>Should Evolution be taught in high school?

Of fucking course.
Ain't even reading your other shit.
This is a clear cut issue.

\thread

>> No.3267090

>>3267080
Mr Pokemon guru sir, while you're here, tell me do they ever (in the manga) reveal who Ash's father actually is?

>> No.3267102

>>3267087

Well it fucking happened in alright? In canon. The original canon, he became a pokemon master. If you knew two shits about pokemon you'd actually know.

>> No.3267120

>>3267090

Mr Ketchum

>> No.3267143

>>3267072

It would appear that they would have won, but would they really?

>> No.3267146

its only in religous countries where religious people question teaching evolution in schools

saying no to evolution is saying no to such things as genetics

and without that how would you explain to a kid how dog breeding is possible?

>> No.3267151

>>3267146

>saying no to evolution is saying no to such things as genetics

Not true. You need genetics to teach evolution, but you dont need evolution to teach genetics.

>and without that how would you explain to a kid how dog breeding is possible?

kids ask all sorts of things, its the answers that you dont give them, that they find out on their own, and probably get a better answer than any you could have given them on the spot. this is point 3) and i maintain that.

>> No.3267163

>>3267088

Hypocrite. I spit on you and curse your house.

>> No.3267180

Pokémon is magic. Fuck off.

Evolution is scientifically shown to be very possibly correct and being a science it should be discussed in science class.

>> No.3267184

>>3267026
>Evolutionary concepts are not a requisite for the understanding of biology, but is merely the end product of an understanding of basic concepts in genetics. The implications of which would naturally be derived by an intuitive and/or inquisitive student. We don't need to teach high school students about evolution to teach them a basic understanding of genetics, microbiology and the interaction of organisms within their ecosystems; only the reverse is true.

So your argument is it shouldn't be taught because it isn't entirely necessarily? By those grounds we should only be teaching subsistence farming.

> Evolution serves as a rallying point for religion to attack and inhibit science and biology as a whole. (Fallacies such as connecting The Big Bang Theory to Evolution to Atheism. Lets face it, we're all sick of it.) Teaching evolution to idiots only strengthens the religious community.

While it may seem this way in the media, the religious community is shrinking at a pretty substantial rate, increased science education is vital to this decrease in fundamentalist belief.

>By not teaching evolution in high school, it is more likely than not that the brighter youngsters would go out of their way to learn more about it anyway.

This hope is nothing to base a future on. We need an educated populous. Not a society that hopes that some intelligent people will have what it takes to find information that should be available and standard for everyone.

>> No.3267206

>>3267184

>So your argument is it shouldn't be taught because it isn't entirely necessarily? By those grounds we should only be teaching subsistence farming.

Strawman.

There are other applications of biology you could be teaching in lieu of Evolution. Pharmacology for example. More relevant yet than evolution to the majority of university courses branching from biology.

> While it may seem this way in the media, the religious community is shrinking at a pretty substantial rate, increased science education is vital to this decrease in fundamentalist belief.

Religions thrive under persecution and opposition. It is merely history that warns us so.

>This hope is nothing to base a future on. We need an educated populous. Not a society that hopes that some intelligent people will have what it takes to find information that should be available and standard for everyone.

Merely another selection pressure. Besides, as I maintain, knowledge of Evolutionary concepts at the high school level is not integral to furthering one's education in biology or any other subject for that matter.

>> No.3267210

Evolution should be taught because then I would probably understand that Jolteon would have been a better choice than that bullshit useless firefox.

>> No.3267211

>2) Evolution serves as a rallying point for religion to attack and inhibit science and biology as a whole.

I don't feel like creating an entire argument, but I wanted to touch on this right here.

I've had evolution taught to me through bio in high school, and I've also taken it as a class in college. I think most people who have taken it would disagree with this opinion - that it would make only strengthen the religious community. Most of the points established by evolution wouldn't make people cringe in defiance - they're pretty valid points. Nobody is going to look up from their papers and say "vestigial limbs? How does that prove ANYTHING?" I think if anything, it would open up their minds a bit and perhaps they would accept the theory, while still upholding their faith. Anyway, it's just another bio topic and quit frankly it's just as important as learning chemistry.

>> No.3267217

No. Because fuck America, I want my own nation's biotech industry to prosper.

>> No.3267223

>>3267211

Yes that is true. However only so if you have actually sat through and understood the concepts. In reality, this is not the case for most people who oppose the idea even before hearing it out simply because by default it opposes their belief system.

like this arsehole : >>3267088

>> No.3267226

>>3267206
>There are other applications of biology you could be teaching in lieu of Evolution. Pharmacology for example. More relevant yet than evolution to the majority of university courses branching from biology.

No, my point was that none of it is truly necessary. We teach things because they are interesting and might inspire students for a brighter future, not because they are highly relevant to daily life. Evolution in particular has a lot of interest because most people are curious about human/life origins.

>Religions thrive under persecution and opposition. It is merely history that warns us so.

Really because statistics are suggesting otherwise. There has been a steady decrease (that is very likely to continue) suggesting that America will soon no longer be a "christian nation" while it is true that the religiously oppressed are more noisy about it, it doesn't necessarily mean they are thriving.

>Merely another selection pressure. Besides, as I maintain, knowledge of Evolutionary concepts at the high school level is not integral to furthering one's education in biology or any other subject for that matter.

>Merely another selection pressure
You clearly don't have a very good understanding of how this sort of thing works.

and again, evolution isn't taught because it is pivotal to a complex understanding of biology, it is taught because there is interest in where we came from and it is the scientific explanation, as opposed to the mythical one presented by creationists. If there isn't one being taught, there will likely be the other. Frankly, the entire premise for what you're saying is ridicules. The bottom line is we shouldn't be removing scientific education, we should be increasing it.

>> No.3267229

>>3267217

And how is Evolution relevant to your biotech industry may I ask? Are you breeding a new race of super-commando-aligator-chainsaw-tiger crossbreeds?

>> No.3267230

>>3267026
> Should Evolution be taught in high school?
Yes.
> Here are my arguments against it:
> 1) Evolutionary concepts are not a requisite for the understanding of biology, but is merely the end product of an understanding of basic concepts in genetics.
"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution." -- Inscription on the floor of Notre Dame, credited to Theodosius Dobzhansky.
> The implications of which would naturally be derived by an intuitive and/or inquisitive student.
Unless they aren't taught.
> We don't need to teach high school students about evolution to teach them a basic understanding of genetics, microbiology and the interaction of organisms within their ecosystems; only the reverse is true.
Nope.
> 2) Evolution serves as a rallying point for religion to attack and inhibit science and biology as a whole.
Good argument for getting rid of religion. Doesn't really support your point though.
> (Fallacies such as connecting The Big Bang Theory to Evolution to Atheism. Lets face it, we're all sick of it.) Teaching evolution to idiots only strengthens the religious community.
No, not teaching evolution to idiots leaves those idiots thinking it's plausible for God to make a rib woman.
> 3) By not teaching evolution in high school, it is more likely than not that the brighter youngsters would go out of their way to learn more about it anyway.
Yes, because we all go out of our way to study things we aren't aware exist.
> Now is not the time to laud Darwin
Agree.
> and fight the tide of ignorance.
Disagree.
> We are overwhelmed, and we have to adapt.
By getting rid of religion.

> Pic related, its Eevee, a common ancestor for discontinuous variation.
And this is why even idiots should be taught evolution. Otherwise they might think caterpillars EVOLVE into butterflies.

>> No.3267235

>>3267211
This is substantiated by data. Education of evolution increases scientific literacy and points towards more secular society. NOT the reverse.

>> No.3267246

>>3267206

Quit whining about studying biology. Evolution is MUCH more then just biology. It's about understanding who we are and where we come from. Every human should know the basics. This in contrast to genetics which requires some scientific knowledge to pick up: try to explain transscription and translation.

>> No.3267247

We shouldn't let people who want to keep children ignorant win on the basis of political correctness.
These kids will probably forget the details of the theory of evolution by their next test anyway.
I was taught evolution in middle school and high school, we spent literally one period on it, which is like half an hour.
so i really don't understand why conservatives are upset about about it. Really, i don't. someone please explain. Because it's not like professors are trying to convince kids to become Atheist or whatever. They're just explaining a theory.

>> No.3267255

>Should Evolution be taught in high school?

Yes it damn well should. Along with every other heavily supported body of evidence, too.

Should the theory of gravity be taught in high school?

See? That's how dumb you sound.

>> No.3267260

> Evolution in particular has a lot of interest because most people are curious about human/life origins.

irrelevant. sciences are not taught because they are interesting.

>You clearly don't have a very good understanding of how this sort of thing works.

justify yourself

>because it is pivotal to a complex understanding of biology

No

>it is taught because there is interest in where we came from and it is the scientific explanation

irrelevant

> If there isn't one being taught, there will likely be the other.

non-sequitur

>> No.3267265

>>3267230
Ah thank fuck someone did that. I was going to but couldnt be arsed since it may have been a troll thread anyway

>> No.3267269

>>3267260

You have no argument. Get the fuck out.

>> No.3267278

No everything that is not 100% covered with proof should be completely kicked from this planet. So only math remains, if you want religion you ve got to visit the oort-cloud.

>> No.3267285

>>3267255

Just because something is true does not mean that we have to teach it. It is absurd to think so. Otherwise we'd have to teach the entire encyclopedia.

>See? That's how dumb you sound.

Ironically, that last sentence showcases your ignorance. (Being dumb has nothing to do with intelligence, it just means you are mute)

>> No.3267290

If Espeon evolves from Eevee, why are there still Eevees?

>> No.3267292

>>3267057
My hat is off to you good sir.

>> No.3267297

>>3267260
See, you think you are countering my arguments but you're actually coming of as pretentious and dim
>ad hominem
Yes it is, it is also true.

>irrelevant. sciences are not taught because they are interesting.
Yes they fucking are. If there was no interest, no one would learn about them. What the fuck am I reading.

>justify yourself
Going and learning about evolution on your own initiative not a selective pressure. It likely has very little effect on reproductive success (and some would even argue that if you spend all your time researching scientific concepts that are disjointed from standard academic study, you'll have a decreased chance of reproduction)

>No

I said it ISN'T taught because it's pivotal, but for other reasons, like interest. Interest in science is incredibly relevant, if I actually have to defend this point than we're done here. Way to drop context.

>> No.3267302

>>3267285

Evolution is one of the basics of Biology, though. The thing about high school is that they try to teach you the basics of as many fields as they can, so that you can decide what you'd like to specialize in when you go to college. What, are you against teaching the Pythagorean theorem in mathematics class, too?

>> No.3267309

ITT: OP fails to defend his asinine concept and falls back on his intro to logic class when all of sci calls him retarded.

>> No.3267320

>>3267297

Bullshit. Science isn't taught because it's interesting, it's taught because it's useful. Most things you learn in high school aren't interesting in the slightest. The fact that science is actually interesting is just a lucky coincidence.

>> No.3267325

>Evolutionary concepts are not a requisite for the understanding of biology

Of course they are. Without teaching evolution you just have natural history, not biology.

>The implications of which would naturally be derived by an intuitive and/or inquisitive student.

Evolutionary theory is the product of centuries of scientific discovery and debate. Some high school kid is not going to work out an accurate evolutionary model all on his own. And you will never satisfy nutcases by caving to them. That just encourages them to deepen their craziness. You are a fucking idiot. 5/10 for effort though.

>> No.3267331

I was taught evolution in high school.
And it was a Catholic high school.
It was alright, presented as the scientific fact it is.

Your move, OP.

>> No.3267339

>Going and learning about evolution on your own initiative not a selective pressure. It likely has very little effect on reproductive success (and some would even argue that if you spend all your time researching scientific concepts that are disjointed from standard academic study, you'll have a decreased chance of reproduction)

You are retarded in fluid intelligence and have a myopic view on fundamental terms. The selection pressures in this context are not with regards to reproduction, they refer to the selection process of sieving out the less inquisitive or intuitive youngsters from the education system altogether.

> Interest in science is incredibly relevant

No. You may leave now.

>> No.3267364

>>3267325

>Of course they are. Without teaching evolution you just have natural history, not biology.

Boy you are really fucking retarded arent you.

Evolution is a byproduct of our understanding in the field of genetics and microbiology applied to the observation of organisms interacting within their ecosystems. Biology DID NOT start with evolution, the fundamental concepts were taught for years before Darwin ever conceived the idea of evolution by natural selection.

>> No.3267371

>>3267309

You were not welcome to begin with, you will not be missed.

>> No.3267379

>>3267339
And you're pedantic and lack any form of substance in your arguments other than "THIS IS WHAT I THINK, IT'S RIGHT." That selection process you're talking about is already entirely achieved by college tuition. Those "less inquisitive youngsters" are more likely to be satisfied with a high school diploma. Besides, since when should an education system be based on alienation of children?? Education systems should cater to the development of interest, not "if you aren't immediately taken in by this, get the fuck out."

See how well science does without anyone being interested in it.

Haha honestly OP, you seem a bit upset. You haven't provided a single solid argument that wasn't dissected and destroyed. However, your recent flare of vocabulary leads me to believe you might be upset. Maybe you should post on a different board.

>> No.3267383

>>3267364

Nope.jpg

Those "fundamental concepts" weren't as fundamental as evolution, they were simply observations. People studied the stars and the planets before heliocentrism was accepted, too, and some of the things they concluded were correct. A lot of it didn't make sense, though, until heliocentrism was actually accepted. What you're saying is something like "oh you don't need to know that the earth revolves around the sun to learn about cosmology and astronomy".

>> No.3267386
File: 350 KB, 558x441, reported.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3267386

>Reported

>> No.3267387

>>3267379

>Education systems should cater to the development of interest

No.

>not "if you aren't immediately taken in by this, get the fuck out."

Get the fuck out.

>> No.3267388

OP seems a bit angry.

>> No.3267400

>>3267387
That has been your argument for a few posts. Life must be difficult as a condescending pseudo-intellectual that can't formulate an argument outside of simply stating "no".

>Come to /sci/ with a completely idiotic premise that is supported by faulty logic and misinformation.
>/sci/ tells you you're wrong and why you're wrong.
>Continue disagreeing because you lack the humility to admit the idea wasn't good.

>> No.3267405
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3267405

>>3267285

>Just because something is true does not mean that we have to teach it. It is absurd to think so.
>It is absurd to think so.
>Just because something is true does not mean that we have to teach it. It is absurd to think so.
>It is absurd to think so.
>Just because something is true does not mean that we have to teach it. It is absurd to think so.
>It is absurd to think so.

See? That's how dumb you sound.

Ironically, that last sentence showcases your ignorance.

>> No.3267411

>>3267383

Like I've said earlier, there are other applications of biology that demonstrate the same fundamental concepts that are applied to evolution.

Pharmacology and the study of viruses for example. We can see the applications of our understanding of evolution mirrored in that of the inherited resistance of viruses to chemicals such as penicillin.

We do not absolutely have to teach evolution just because it is true and demonstrates the application of biology.

>> No.3267415

>>3267026
what the fuck is this bullshit

eevee could only evolve into three other bitches. What the fuck is this other shit?

>> No.3267416

>>3267405

BECAUSE IF WE HAD TO TEACH EVERYTHING THAT WAS TRUE, WE'D HAVE TO TEACH THE ENTIRE ENCYCLOPEDIA YOU FUCKING RETARD

JUST BECAUSE IT IS TRUE DOES NOT MEAN WE HAVE TO TEACH IT

>> No.3267423

there IS NO biology except in light of evolution

>> No.3267425

>>3267416
Hahahahahaha. I lol'd.
I think we're done here.

>> No.3267430

>>3267416

Wow.

You don't even know what you're trying to defend anymore, do you?

I hope you're a troll.

For your sake.

>> No.3267428

>>3267057
>If Ash had known two shits about evolution he would have given pikachu a thunderstone.
You sir are a dirty liar. After Lt. Surge's Raichu defeats Ash, he comes across a thunderstone but decides against using it because Pikachu doesn't want to evolve. The second time around he beats Lt. Surge because he was a dumbass and evolved his Raichu before it could learn agility and quick attack. So clearly he understood evolution, he just realized that whether or not certain traits are desirable depends on circumstances and environment.

>> No.3267438

>>3267428

Alas, Iam undone. I remember that episode as well. You win this round anon.

>> No.3267444
File: 47 KB, 600x443, 1307023597401.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3267444

>evolution

>> No.3267453

>>3267423

Just because it is a meme, it does not make it true.

Biology had long been a proper science in its own right before Evolution was conceived.

>> No.3267458

I remember when it was just Flareon, Jolteon and Vaporeon.

You young whippersnappers.

>> No.3267474

>>3267453
>Biology had long been a proper science in its own right before Evolution was conceived.

There it is again. We went over this. Repeating your arguments ad nauseum does not make them sound any less idiotic.

>> No.3267477

>>3267339

>sieving out the less inquisitive or intuitive youngsters from the education system altogether.

congratulations- your country is now filled with uneducated retards.

extension of this to any reasonable extent has kids in a classroom, sitting silently, staring at a blank chalkboard.

then the smart kids go home and read books to learn shit and the unmotivated ones play xbawks.

The education system serves all children, not just your golden-boys, fuckwit.

>> No.3267483

>>3267474

It is a fact. Calling it idiotic does not make it idiotic. Neither is it a rebuttal, neither does it enhance your stand.

Besides, I've told you already: get the fuck out.

>> No.3267501

>What, are you against teaching the Pythagorean theorem in mathematics class, too?

Yes, because it's just a theorem (a Gauss).

>> No.3267508

> your country

Hoho.

I'll have you know that MY country has its children learning about creatonism off that same chalkboard.

I merely suggest adapting what we teach so that more children will be given the opportunity to sit through a biology class rather than have their authority figures bar them from the classroom altogether! This serves as a proper selection pressure rather than have the few unrecognized geniuses slip away from the system simply because their parents didnt like the idea of them learning about evolution.

>> No.3267511
File: 91 KB, 368x400, laughingfujoshi.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3267511

>>3267501
Well played

>> No.3267520

>>3267501

Nice try. What's the use of miring a thread you disagree with where it serves you no purpose to do so.

You are no better than a creationist.

You always have the option but make noise and mess rather than leave.

Get the fuck out.

>> No.3267532

assuming op is not a troll

i too was exposed enough to paleontologic data to at least consider common heredity as common sense

but if you would have asked my 10 year old self how evolution works, it probably would have answered with something resembling lamarckism

i personally had to be exposed to the idea of natural selection, to get it right
im sure theres plenty of kids out there who get it right on their own, but i didnt
and we cant assume that everyone does

>> No.3267540

>We are overwhelmed, and we have to adapt.
Yeah, remember when the intelligent design proponents won the Dover case and got creationism back in the classroom?
Oh wait, the courts told them to GTFO. The theory of evolution is not being "overwhelmed" and science in general is not in danger. And even if it was, pandering to religious extremists would just encourage them to further encroach on secular society.

>> No.3267552

I don't think mathematics should be thought in school, since it's atheistic and demonic. Only atheists and murdering criminals reads mathematics. If it weren't for my disbelief in mathematics I would murder many many people. Just think about it, atheist believe that one can test prayer with statistics? How insane is that? IT's the devil I tell ya.

>> No.3267554

>>3267532
Considering the majority of creationist arguments stem from fundamental misunderstandings of how evolution works, not teaching evolution would simply create more creationists with a strawman picture of the theory.

>> No.3267555

>>3267532

Is it important that they DO get it right at all though?

Unless already in the field of biology, they could not possibly contribute more to its advancement, but rather stand a fair chance at inhibiting it with incomplete knowledge.

And if you ARE in the field of biology or able to make a contribution to the field, then you would probably already would have been taught Evolution somewhere in your tertiary education.

Im not suggesting that we take out Evolution from the education system altogether, just from the high school system where evidently we need a more mature classroom to appreciate Evolution rather than come into class with a list of arguments against it supplied by their pastor.

>> No.3267571

>>3267555
> Is it really important to stop poison from flooding the body from a rattlesnake bite? I mean, if it isn't in the heart now it can't kill someone.

Religion is poisonous to knowledge and morality.
Yes, it matters.

>> No.3267574

>>3267554

Ah, you were thinking on the same lines as me, but I contest the fact that teaching it in highschool is effective in teaching would-be creationists any understanding of evolution at all. As the adage goes: you cannot fill a cup that is already full. Most of the would-be creationists would either not absorb their lesson or not turn up for class, giving rise to an even greater misunderstanding of Evolution with incomplete knowledge. It is more dangerous to have a little knowledge of the subject rather than no knowledge at all.

>> No.3267613

>>3267574

Following that, I still maintain that it is better to have Evolution taught to those willing and mature enough to appreciate it. High school apparently is not such a place, but universities, surely. We can substitute Evolution in high school with other topics that demonstrate the application of similar concepts of inheritance and mutation such as I've mentioned Pharmacology and Viruses, and teach Evolution in university. They are less likely to take home a misunderstanding of Evolution when taught at tertiary level than they are likely at high school level.

>> No.3267614

>>3267574
there's still a difference though

while a creationist who has no idea about evolution is just ignorant, a creationist who did learn about evolution and still chooses to misrepresent/misinterpret it can be called an idiot AND a liar

>> No.3267623

>>3267571

Yes, eventually the root of the problem must be addressed, but following your analogy, teaching evolution in high school does not actually stop the poison, but rather exacerbates it. It is like jogging on the spot after being bitten by a venemous snake. 1) you get nowhere 2) you speed up your circulation and the rate in which the venom reaches your heart.

>> No.3267630

>>3267555
>Unless already in the field of biology, they could not possibly contribute more to its advancement

Because Biology is a dead field, am I right? No new discoveries are being made in biology anymore! Heck, biologists are a mythical creature!

Not teaching someone about something is a much better way of preventing that field's expansion than teaching someone about it.

>> No.3267635

>>3267614
Kent Hovind isn't an idiot. He's not dumb enough to actually believe the lies he spews. He's not so stupid as to not realize how often he's been disproved. But he goes on repeating the same lies. Why?
Because he has a flock, and if he ever admits his error the sheep will leave before he gets around to fleecing them.
I suspect that like many pastors, bishops, ministers... Hovind is an atheist, trapped by the threat of losing his only profitable job skill: Fraud.

>> No.3267646

>>3267635

Whoah- you mean Dr Hovind. lol

Who's talking about him anyway?

>> No.3267648

>>3267635
And he can only fleece people so well because they are totally ignorant as to the concept of evolution, and can't actually spot his huge gaps in research and logic, and things he blatantly misrepresents or lies about.
In other words, greater scientific illiteracy only allows snake oil salesmen and religious wackos to flourish. Absolutely nothing good from making people more ignorant about something.

>> No.3267680
File: 51 KB, 500x332, Frustration.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3267680

>>3267026

1. That's like saying that we don't need to teach a concept like gravity to teach the equations to calculate the orbit of the moon, or to explain nuclear synthesis to say the sun is basically a giant nuclear power-plant; it's true enough but it leaves a totally incomplete understanding of how it works.

Biology requires evolution. It's the theory that knits it all together. Without it, you might as well exclude that things are made of atoms from chemistry.

2. Educating people protects them from ignorance. The stupid will always be stupid but the ignorant will not always be ignorant. The most powerful weapon in a Creationist's toolbag (or anyone who has an agenda) is to have an audience who are just slightly uneducated enough to understand them.

Educated people can dismiss arguments as bullshit, and, better still, it exposes them to the beauty of science.

3. Brighter people will do that anyway; curiosity is incurable and people with it will always seek out more information. Schools can't cover it all, after all; at most, they provide a glimmering of it because they're too busy keeping up with the slowest idiot in the race.

Finally, you're a fucking moron if you say people shouldn't fight against ignorance. It's like saying "We shouldn't vaccinate our kids because anti-vaccinators are protesting."

You're a troll, but you're too much of a representation of real people and it pisses me the fuck off.

>> No.3267752

>>3267680

1. That is absurd and not the same thing at all , and I dont care if you dont know why.

2. Should education succeed in its task in the first place. How much does a creationist child learn from being barred from class by his parents? It is better that they have knowledge to piece together the conclusion of evolution on their own rather than to have no knowledge of biology whatsoever. We can still teach the fundamental concepts of biology to assemble the theory piecemeal without having to teach evolution.

3. Nothing to add onto this.

Lastly, thats just as absurd as 1. Im not sure whose stand your rebuttal is targetted at, it might sound vaguely like mine, but its not the same thing damnit.

Im tired. This is my last post. Iam OP.

>> No.3267848

>>3267752

1. Troll harder. Teaching people things without context only hurts them. Without a unifying explaination of why things are the way they are, they become unintuitive and unpredictable.

2. Evolution's evidence stretches beyond biology, and it is a very necessary part of biology. Creationist families might hurt their kids by denying them knowledge but we shouldn't play dumb for them over it. It'd be like not giving kids sex ed because a group of Mormons objects to it, or forbidding art classes or a school dance because Puritans find it objectionable

I come from a Creationist background. I had to figure it all out myself. I've seen many, many more Creationists, however, who just accept it and shut their eyes to it. People will do what they'll do. We shouldn't deny kids an education because some might find it objectionable.

You said "Now is not the time to [...] fight the tide of ignorance". It is ALWAYS that time. Giving in to fundamentalism, accepting ignorance; these are the first steps that lead a society into the Dark Ages.

Fuck ignorance. We have the light of knowledge and should only be fanning its flames, not snuffing it for the sake of those who prefer to sit comfortably in the dark so they can imagine whatever they like to be in the consuming shadows.

>> No.3267859
File: 54 KB, 260x240, Flareon.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3267859

>>3267026
nigga, please.

>> No.3267870

>>3267057
He had the chance to give Pikachu the thunderstone, but Pikachu didn't want it.

>> No.3267895

>>3267752

you are so full of shit. You can't have a very good understanding of Biology without the context of evolution. That's why the first fucking life science class I was allowed to take as a biology undergrad is called Evolution, Ecology, and Biodiversity and the entire department is called Ecology and Evolutionary Biology.

You are not a biologist. You are a pseudo-intellectual faggot at best and your opinion does not matter.

>> No.3267902 [DELETED] 

>>3267859

You say that as if Flareon has moves

>> No.3267922

Gravitational concepts spout a negative doctrine. What goes up must come down. This obviously sets a poor example for children, who must be inspired to fly no matter what. Gravity is the nihilism of science and should be ignored.

>> No.3267962

The whole premise of this argument is stupid. The reason the public needs to be aware of science is because they VOTE. Scientific research that is funded by the government has to be voted on. Why do you think getting federal funding for stem cell research has been such a battle? It's because people are not educated enough to understand the importance of certain fields and just do what their pastors or neighbors tell them. It is extremely important that people receive a thorough scientific education, even if they are not going to be scientists, because of the power they wield as voters.