Bipolar kids: Victims of the 'madness industry'?

[∞ chan !!JpUnLqt++st No.3200478]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21028151.900-bipolar-kids-victims-of-the-madness-industry.html

Great article in newscientist about the growing trend of overdiagnosis of mental disorders in children.
I espeically liked this quote from Allen Francis (the man who wrote the DSM-IV)

>"Psychiatric diagnoses are getting closer and closer to the boundary of normal,"

I thought /sci/ would like.

[Anonymous No.3200524]

inb4 aspergers and adhd are made up disorders

[Anonymous No.3200585]

>>3200524

I wouldn't say they're not real but it's alot easier to just prescribe some pills than to tell a parent the truth and say your kid is a little fucking brat.

[Anonymous No.3200600]

Psychfag here. What is normal or abnormal depends on the culture and society you're in. If there's more cases of bipolar disorders, or any disorders, in a society or culture, chances are it will start to become viewed as "more normal" by them.

[Anonymous No.3200633]

>>3200585
It's also convenient quick fix for shitty parents. For example:

>The autopsy revealed that Rebecca's parents had given her an overdose of the antipsychotic drugs she had been prescribed for her bipolar disorder. They had got into the habit of feeding her the medicines to shut her up when she was being annoying. They were both convicted of Rebecca's murder.

[Anonymous No.3202443]

Technically you shouldnt be giving out drugs to treat the majority of psychological disorders in young children since most outgrow the 'symptoms'.
Then again some US doctors will prescribe Ritalin for your 2 year old.
Aspergers isn,t 'made up', but the overdiagnosis is astonishing. Lots of people display autistic behaviours, but you actually have to have quite a few specific impairments to be classed as Autistic or Aspergic. A lot of the time people actually have Pervasive development disorder instead.
Pisses me off that social retards classify themselves as Aspie as an excuse. So theres a Developmental/Clinical Psychology rant for you.

[Anonymous No.3202588]

>>3200633
Also helps the pharmaceutical industry get uber rich.

[Anonymous No.3202612]

Having spent a good 10 years of my childhood, I can say that there are genuine diagnoses, and a lot of hoodoo. I was diagnosed with manic-depression (now called bipolar type 2) and ADD (now called ADHD-IP, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder inattention prone). I never had any depressive episodes until after I had been on antidepressants for 3+ years, but I definitely have ADD. It seems that putting young children on these medications is creating the disorders that they are prescribed to treat. It's a vicious cycle.

[Anonymous No.3202647]

>allow drug companies to put ads on TV and give cutbacks to doctors
>expect this shit not to happen

You'd think we'd learned something from cigarettes.

[Anonymous No.3202653]

>>3202588
win-win, really.

[Anonymous No.3203517]

>>3202647

anti-social(ised) healthcare, amirite?

[Anonymous No.3203947]

the worst part is when schools develop "special" classes for the adhd kids and such, and 90% of those classes are the over-diagnosed kind. a few of them are legit, the rest display barely any symptoms.

and the teachers talk down to them indirectly, stepping real softly in order to not get sued, and teaching them like they're dumber. The kids come out of those classes saying "we're in the stupid class". and i want to punch the fucker who diagnosed them.

also they get lots of government funding for the more diagnosed ADD students they teach. gee i wonder why they're so liberal with those diagnoses?

i'm mad as fuck

[Anonymous No.3203960]

>>3202443

Well that depends highly on how the disorder affects his/her life, especially school work, if a child can't study then what will become of him? So he needs the meds to study.

[Anonymous No.3203979]

>>3203947
>the worst part is when schools develop "special" classes for the adhd kids and such

That's a good thing, you can't have retards slow down the progress of normal children.

[Anonymous No.3204006]

>>3203979
except most of them are not retarded in the first place. and fuck you

[Anonymous No.3204010]

>>3202443
>Pervasive development disorder

thankyou, now I think I have that too

[Anonymous No.3204024]

>>3204006
I live in a country where special classes have been fairly recently made illegal because they were "discriminating".

The school system has gone to utter shit ever since then.

I believe my hands-on experience of things gives my opinion a bit more weight than yours.

[Anonymous No.3204030]

>>3204010
Amazing! Do they prescribe good drugs for that?
Because I might have it too.

[Anonymous No.3204039]

If we have to use psychiatric medication on more than 0.5% of our own children there is something wrong with society.

[Anonymous No.3204049]

>baawww i feel bored sometimes, I have manic aspergers bipolar autism depression syndrome

[Anonymous No.3204086]

Aspie here, diagnosed at age 7. Never had pills for it though.

[Anonymous No.3204105]

>>3204086
How did you develop social skills? My dad made me take up sports from an early age, it got to the point where I considered it to be something like school that you had to go to, even though most other kids didn't. I became the strong silent type.

[Anonymous No.3204121]

>>3202443
>A lot of the time people actually have Pervasive development disorder instead.

Both Asperger's and Autism are Pervasive Developmental Disorders.

[Clever Bastard No.3204129]

I think we should medicate the atheists. Their rationalism is clearly irrational, LOL. Who's with me?

[Anonymous No.3204128]

>>3204105
>How did you develop social skills?
Was in mainstream school (often top of the class) and Boy Scouts. Still not much good at social skills.

[Anonymous No.3204141]

Ritalin is the new deodorant.

[Anonymous No.3204149]

real adhd here.
i am not from a country with retarded psychiatrist like usa
its a real disorder,your country is full of faggots

[Anonymous No.3204166]

>>3204024
>The school system has gone to utter shit ever since then.
well perhaps it was bad before then, and you're just looking for problems now that the "Retards" are among you? fuck you

[Anonymous No.3204179]

Mental healthcare is a joke in this country.

[Anonymous No.3204200]

>>3204166
You know, you really sound like an asspained retard.

[Anonymous No.3204242]

>>3204200
funny, the guy i was quoting sounded like the asspained one here.

i mean sure, there were probably a few actually retarded kids in those classes, but the rest were pretty much spot on normal with no issues.

[Anonymous No.3204244]

>>3202443
>classify themselves as Aspie as an excuse

The difference between 'eccentric' and 'mentally ill' from an external perspective is level of functioning.

I'm not sure whether Freud or Sartre was right. I feel I have autonomy, I feel I can handle the world unmedicated, but I don't have a mental illness.

What you're essentially saying is

"You're either responsible for the state of your life and able to change it, or you have a mental illness."

Last time I saw something so black and white was at the Zebra exhibit.

So right now it pisses you off that someone who, say, can't get a girlfriend self-diagnosis' Aspergers and uses that as an excuse?

What if Gilmartin's 'Loveshyness' becomes included in the next DSM? Will it be okay for them to blame that?

[Anonymous No.3204268]

>>3204242
>i mean sure, there were probably a few actually retarded kids in those classes, but the rest were pretty much spot on normal with no issues.

It just takes a single retard to completely ruin a class of normal children. Because they need to have tests tailored for them, they want you to go slower when you explain things, and all that shit.

And this is why they need to be put with their own kind.

[Anonymous No.3204271]

>>3204244
Also, why should these people need to excuse themselves?

Are you that intolerant?

[Anonymous No.3204287]

>>3204268
Or, you know, organize classes by level of adeptness rather than by something as arbitrary as age?

I guess blind intolerance toward 'retards' makes the logic areas of your brain a bit fuzzy.

[Anonymous No.3204319]

what do you expect when modern science and medicine are just political shills for pharmaceutical cartels?

[Anonymous No.3204337]

>>3203947

I really don't think anyone thinks of the long-term effects an "abnormal" label does to a child's self-esteem.
Or the fact that it gives them an excuse to not try to be normal.

I particularly hate it when aspirational parents have a child with slightly less than average intelligence and try to blame it on adhd or something instead of just saying "that's how life goes sometimes".
Personally, had i not been top of the class at school i don't see how i would have been in any way motivated to work. Add in some self-esteem/other emotional issues and shitty pushy parenting and kaboom ADHD for all!

Sure, ritalin/special needs might get your not-so-smart child a degree, but at what cost?
It's almost as if they don't give a fuck about their child and just want to keep up appearances.
Shitty parenting at it's height.

[Anonymous No.3204338]

>>3204287
Yeah, right, let's completely change the school system so that retards like you don't feel discriminated against.

[Anonymous No.3204342]

>>3204128
I never really had social skills either, just enough to keep me mentally stable while I was a hormonal teenager surrounded by hormonal teenagers.

[Anonymous No.3204350]

>>3204319
Pretty much this.

Try guess why very little research is done on the effectiveness of valerian and kava?

Because you can't patent what grows in the dirt.

[Anonymous No.3204351]

>>3204338
If he's a retard wouldn't that mean he is held back a year?

[Anonymous No.3204360]

THIS IS WHY YOU GET YOUR YOUNG CHILD WATCHING BILL NYE THE SCIENCE GUY AND THE MAGIC SCHOOL BUS FROM YEAR 4 OR SO.

seriously, that shit works

[Anonymous No.3204374]

Can 60% of the population be psychologically abnormal?

[Anonymous No.3204376]

>>3204360
>Bill Nye.

I'd prefer someone that doesn't say whatever you pay him to.

[Anonymous No.3204383]

>>3204350
1: Conduct examinations of the constituents of every plant product.
2: Patent means of extracting useful constituents.
3: ???
4: Profit.

[Anonymous No.3204384]

>>3204376
what?
you're a faggot

[Anonymous No.3204395]

>>3204338

I know you're just being a defensive child, but I feel I should address a few things.

1. Segregation/ostracization worsens mental illness. That's why (at least where I live) there are institutions for various levels of functioning. They only want to keep you completely segregated if you're a menace to society, otherwise they just want to keep tabs on you.

2. Mental illness can present in high IQ children because of social alienation caused by being forced into a peer group with people far below them intellectually.

Of course, these are both moot points because the both of us know changing the school system would be too difficult. Abolishing racial segregation and corporal punishment showed us that.

[Anonymous No.3204398]

>>3204384
What? You believe FOX-GNUS propaganda, and -ONLY- FOX-GNUS propaganda.

[Anonymous No.3204458]

>>3204395
Look, I'm a teacher, you moron. I know what it's like trying to put up with retards who want to have the same chances in life as normal children. Every fucking year there are more directives about enforcing equality, more guidelines about how to make tests simpler for them, more CLASS TIME spent having to tutor them because they are too stupid to understand basic concepts. It's unbearable.

I don't give a flying fuck about them, what I care about is the effect this has on normal children. In the few years since I've been a teacher, the amount of stuff I manage to go through in a year has almost halved, but just in the classes with retards in them. And you dare say they have a right to sit in normal classes? Well, fuck you and everyone who make claims like that, your equal opportunities policies are killing the school system.

[Anonymous No.3204464]

>>3204458
See:
>>3204287

[Anonymous No.3204480]

>>3204464
So, assume we actually did that.

How would it be different from just having special classes for retards?

[Anonymous No.3204481]

>>3204464
I know you're the same person I've been arguing against (more like informing really, since you've yet to make an argument).

Point is, you haven't adressed any of the points I've made. Instead you've just further showed us your hatred of retards.

[Anonymous No.3204484]

>>3204480
Are you implying four year olds that function on the level of four year olds are as 'retarded' as eight year olds who function on the level of four year olds?

[Anonymous No.3204486]

>>3204481
You have no points. Your only point is that they should be treated the same, because OH POOR POOR CHILDREN, THEY DESERVE TO BE GIVEN THE SAME DIGNITY AS NORMAL CHILDREN, while completely disregarding the effect this has on everyone else.

[Anonymous No.3204491]

>>3204486
Nope.

I clearly stated my points and you're just ignoring them. Or maybe they were too wordy for you.

Point one:
Segregating people with mental-illnesses is bad for everyone.

Point two:
Not allowing high-IQ children proper stimulation is bad for them.

[Anonymous No.3204497]

>>3204491
Segregating them when they don't need to be segregated, that is.

[Anonymous No.3204502]

>>3204484
Are you implying that having children with such a large age gap in a class is a good idea? 4 years of difference are huge even at high school level (where we actually have people who end up staying in school longer, because unlike your school system, people who don't pass tests are held back for a year - oh, unless they are retards, then they are excused and advance to the next class anyway).

[Anonymous No.3204509]

>>3204491
>Segregating people with mental-illnesses is bad for everyone.

No, it's fucking not. It's bad for THEM. It's good for everyone else.

>Not allowing high-IQ children proper stimulation is bad for them.

IQ is bullshit made up by American psychologists. Now, if you mean having normal, intelligent children in the same class as retards, yes. I totally agree with you. That's exactly my point.

[Anonymous No.3204526]

>>3204502
>Are you implying that having children with such a large age gap in a class is a good idea?

I'm going to go to bed now for two reasons.

1. Clearly you haven't done any research on this subject

(Protip: The few places the system I'm proposing has been tried it worked extremely well)

2. Despite 1 you are going to tirelessly rebute.

[Anonymous No.3204531]

>>3204509
Sir, I agree with you. However I also believe the "special class" thingie is not vert good. How about instead of segregating them let them be together, but give let's say ... an extra hour class everyday? Of course, have a decent guy giving that course so the children with "bad grades" can aim to better things.

[Anonymous No.3204538]

>>3204509
>IQ is bullshit made up by American psychologists.

French*

And with that, off to bed.

[Anonymous No.3204545]

>>3204531
>but give let's say ... an extra hour class everyday

My school actually tried that. Their parents told us we were fascists for thinking this up, and they would never let their poor special children sit extra school hours while all the other children are free to go home, and play and whatever.

So, yeah, good luck with implementing that.

[pascal !n5Z3VuZapw No.3204548]

I have a friend who was in the special classes. Very smartman, he just had one to many learning problems. He would tell crazy stories about his schooling, but the most relevant one deals with math. Unlike a regular student he was not allowed to take higher maths early. He didnt even start algebra until high school. his math grades were excellent, but categorically he was denied a fair chance of bettering himself.

[Anonymous No.3204554]

If a kid can't keep up with classes that's one thing. Kids shouldn't be punished because of another kid's ineptitude/lack of motivation.

But to use government money to give some children a better chance in life than others is just morally sickening (i'm directing that at any iq elitists reading this thread). I'm not saying all kids have to come out of school equal. I'm saying all kids have to be given an equal chance.

[Anonymous No.3204564]

>>3204554
>I don't want to be dragged down by people dumber than me.
>People smarter than me deserve to be held down to my level.

[Anonymous No.3204567]

>>3204554

Isn't that exactly what we say too?

Put kids in classes based on ability, to give them a fair chance of becoming better.

A kid who's too stupid (pardon the wording) to follow the rest of the class is just as bad as a kid who is smart enough to start on more advanced stuff, but isn't allowed to do so.

Everyone is given the same chances.

Go watch the TEDtalk on Khan Academy.
Mr. Khan (I can't for the love of god remember his first name) explains why it is so effective

[Anonymous No.3204580]

>>3204545
Wait, you mean the parents who had their kids in the special group didn't want them to stay another hour? Bullshit. Then make them arrive an hour earlier damn it, the problem here are the lazy parents. They first leave theirs kids alone at the tv and then want the school to magically transform them into geniuses.

[Anonymous No.3204582]

>>3204567

AP/Advanced classes are common enough for this to not be a problem, aren't they?

[Anonymous No.3204585]

>>3204509
>IQ is bullshit made up by American psychologists. Now, if you mean having normal, intelligent children in the same class as retards, yes. I totally agree with you. That's exactly my point.

Being that you're clearly a moron I can see why you'd think the world can be neatly seperated into 'retards' and 'normal/intelligent people'.

It's an issue of metacognition. You're not smart enough to recognize what smart is, and so of course you can't see the link between IQ and observable intelligence.

[Anonymous No.3204594]

My grandmother is bipolar.
There's nothing made up about it. She's absolutely 100% batshit insane.

[Anonymous No.3204601]

>>3204585
>I took an IQ test on the Internet and I scored 130, I'm a genius!
PROTIP: you are not.

[Anonymous No.3204602]

>>3204594

Shut up and read the thread.

[Anonymous No.3204626]

>>3204564

1/10

Nobody deserves to be held back by anyone, but everybody deserves a chance to prove themselves.

>>3204567

And how exactly do you determine which kids deserve to go into a "higher class"? I don't think it should be done on tests, and i don't think teachers should be allowed pick either.

IQ elitists tend to want their child to be given special privileges because they score in the top 2% or whatever in some tests. To not give other fully capable children the same chances is a great injustice. And if they fail, they fail, but at least you gave them a chance. Kids in school might not even seem capable untill you give them a challenge they consider worth trying.

I'm not even sure if segregated classes is a good idea. There's too much room for pushy parenting.
I'd like more focus on fostering independant learning, possibly using interactive features on computers, which if a kid is in any way smart and acedemically minded they'll do anyway. No quantification = no room for pushy parents.

[Anonymous No.3204635]

All children should be given aderrall

[Anonymous No.3204643]

>>3204635

No they shouldn't.
However it should be legally available to all those over 18. Coke cartels would go out of business overnight.

[Anonymous No.3204655]

relevant
http://neuroskeptic.blogspot.com/2010/09/normal-youre-weird-psychiatrists.html

[Anonymous No.3204666]

>>3204626
No quantification means no motivation to study.

If you decide to separate classes based on merit, it's obvious they should be based on academic results, not crap like IQ tests.

[pascal !n5Z3VuZapw No.3204694]

>>3204626
Each subject gets 108 9 day classes. If you fail the class you take it over, if you pass you move on. Each student will advance at his or her own pace.

[Anonymous No.3204691]

I was dating a womanl for awhile who had a kid.

Dad was an unemployed wigger with a felony, and mom was a 30 year old who still thought she was still 20, and spent every weekend bar hopping instead of raising her kid.

Neither of them cared about being parents. No one ever read to him or even spent any real time with him.

The kids was 6 and he couldn't read and could barely speak.

Surprise surprise, the kid was diagnosed with ADHD because they couldn't explain why he was so far behind in his development.

His mom swore she was doing everything right.

Guess why I left?

I would be willing to bet that a huge percentage of these kids fall into similar situations as this.

[Anonymous No.3204844]

>No quantification means no motivation to study.

wtf sort of intelligent children do you know?


The vast majority of children are naturally curious and want to learn more about the world.
If a child can not have curiosity fostered in them then they are a worthless waste of space in a gifted program, and they would be completely worthless in any sort of acedemic/creative career.

>If you decide to separate classes based on merit, it's obvious they should be based on academic results, not crap like IQ tests.

basing it on acedemic achievement just means children will be forced into hours of pointless study. The most intelligent kids will probably reason that they'd rather enjoy life and thus won't get into the class.

The whole formalised system favours rote-learning over true understanding. It punishes original thinking and creativity (which imo won't show significant quantifiable results untill adulthood), while rewarding obedience and unquestioning acceptance of given facts.

A certain basic amount has to be taught the standard way, but for anything more kids should learn it in a way that's actually effective and will stand to them for the rest of their lives (besides just a result in some test or other).

[Anonymous No.3204984]

>>3204691
Yes, parental neglect causes verifiable changes in the brain of a child. Furthermore, social systems at least in the U.S. are in an extremely poor way, such that many kids are very mentally messed up due to the very unnatural (deviant from the evolutionary norm) that surround/raise them.

[Anonymous No.3205052]

>>3204984

that is a sobering pic

[Anonymous No.3206310]

bump so I can read the thread in a few hours when im home

[Anonymous No.3206499]

lol at parents thinking children have some disorder when the problem is the parents themselves.

also there needs to be a law that anyone below the age of 16 cannot go onto the internet.

[Anonymous No.3206507]

>>3204024

the school system is fucking shit and always has been.

[Anonymous No.3207685]

>>3206507
>always has been.
incorrect

[Anonymous No.3207929]

>>3204458
>>3204486
affect*
>>3204564
"HA HA HA America"
excellent