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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3195345 No.3195345 [Reply] [Original]

hey /sci/, whats your favorite bible verse?

>> No.3195348

Abraham 4:11

>> No.3195355
File: 246 KB, 578x3689, biblequotes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3195355

these

>> No.3195360

i remember there was this one about killing children with a bear

>> No.3195362

Ezekiel 25:17

>> No.3195369 [DELETED] 

Matthew 25:40

>> No.3195370

ezekiel 34:29

>> No.3195373

>>3195355
Fuck science, I'm gonna believe in god now.

>> No.3195378

>>3195355
This seems like a God I could worship.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

>> No.3195379

Ezekiel 23:19-21

>> No.3195386 [DELETED] 

Leviticus 19:15

>> No.3195395 [DELETED] 

Leviticus 19:33

>> No.3195394

Psalm 144:1

"Blessed is the LORD my God, who teacheth my hands to war and my fingers for battle."

>> No.3195398

Like:4

Because lol, Nazareth doesn't even have a cliff or archaeological evidence of a Jewish temple.

>> No.3195409

Is this fo reals cause I want to think this is a trool thread...

>> No.3195411

>>3195378
who, korn?

also, can people just copy out the quotes here rather than just the reference. i cant be bothered looking them up.

>> No.3195414

>>3195409
Forgot to sage olol

>> No.3195423

>>3195411
sure, >>3195379
Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.

>> No.3195429 [DELETED] 

>>3195411
Leviticus 19:15

"Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly."

>> No.3195444 [DELETED] 

>>3195395
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God."

>> No.3195450

I hope this is serious, because the king james bible has some of the most beautiful and influential writing ever. it influenced literature infinitely more than any other work.king james version completely invented many forms of deviation from common usage.
some good ones (found online):


Great men are not always wise.

I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future

Seek peace, and pursue it.

Therefore, do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

>> No.3195465

Corinthians 1, 13:8.... Die Liebe höret nimmer auf...love never ceases...

>> No.3195483 [DELETED] 

>>3195355
Most of those were taken out of context by atheists in the interest of promoting various agendas. Psalm 137:9 is a particularly misinterpreted passage.

http://bible.cc/psalms/137-9.htm

Explained more in depth here.

>> No.3195482

>>3195450
more:
These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.

Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
---------

Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

>> No.3195495 [DELETED] 

>>3195483
Dude, how much of the Bible do you think Richard Dawkins has actually read? Probably not much.

>> No.3195501
File: 58 KB, 640x480, 1s16_04p15_35.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3195501

>1 Samuel 15
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

OH God lol

>> No.3195509

>>3195495

> Oxford theologian Alister McGrath (author of The Dawkins Delusion and Dawkins' God) maintains that Dawkins is ignorant of Christian theology, and therefore unable to engage religion and faith intelligently.[100] In reply, Dawkins asks "do you have to read up on leprechology before disbelieving in leprechauns?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins

>> No.3195512

>>3195501
Even the donkeys?

That's just excessive.

>> No.3195514

>>3195501
That's like totally taken out of like context.

>> No.3195515

>>3195509
Dude wouldn't joke about that shit if someone he knew got leprecy.

>> No.3195519 [DELETED] 

>>3195509
He is. The guy doesn't have a clue and repeatedly takes Bible passages out of context.*

*I'm an agnostic, so no personal bias here

>> No.3195528

>>3195514
>That's like totally taken out of like context.
Is this not the purpose of the Bible?
Applying laws written by nomads in a desert to our modern life...
HA!.jpg

>> No.3195533 [DELETED] 

>>3195528
Hey, those nomads were pretty smart guys. Else why are we still debating their writings 1000s of years later?

>> No.3195535

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

This man is better than anyone else in the church or bible

>> No.3195541 [DELETED] 

>>3195483
Psalm 137:9 is a rather disturbing passage if you don't understand the context of it.

>> No.3195544
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3195544

>>3195360

Bears. Plural.

>> No.3195549

>>3195533
>Hey, those nomads were pretty smart guys.
That's ok, I wasn't argue about that.
I'm just saying that taking old writings literally is bad.
That Book is a good mythology one (but I prefer Greek Myth btw).

>> No.3195562 [DELETED] 

>>3195544
Another passage that requires knowledge of the original Hebrew. The boys are referred to as "nearim ketannim", which means something like "young men". Meaning that they may have not actually been children, but actually teenagers or young adults.

>> No.3195564

Matthew 7:6

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."

Translation: Don't try to teach Creationists about science. Don't waste your time giving them your knowledge. They'll just shit all over it then attack you anyways.

>> No.3195569

>>3195564
>>3195564
Translation:
this is why 4chan sucks now.
>this is why we can't have nice things

>> No.3195576 [DELETED] 

>>3195564
This is a favorite passage of mine, and it explains also why debating religion with Dawkinsfags is a waste of time.

>> No.3195585

>>3195576

Nope it's about creationists and christians. It says so right there in the bible. You're obviously against the word of god.

>> No.3195590 [DELETED] 

>>3195585
It actually can refer to debating any group of swinish, ignorant people you like.

>> No.3195593

>>3195541
>>3195483
I find these apologetics far more disturbing than the plain text.

"Well yeah, we're not so much into baby-smashing *these* days, but it was the thing at the time, so it was only natural for THE TRUE WORD OF GOD to say it's a good thing when applied to the evil babies of civilizations that are against our religion."

I expected this "It's all out of context!" defense to be something more like, "That was a quotation of a bad character in the story!"

>> No.3195598

I like the foreword the most.


>Dedicated to my wife
>
>Disclaimer: All events and characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental."

>> No.3195607 [DELETED] 

>>3195593
>"That was a quotation of a bad character in the story!"

It is in a way. The writer is expressing his lament over the destruction of Israel by Babylon and states that he would wish to see their children dashed against a rock in retaliation.

>> No.3195605

>>3195394
Nice. All the Psalms are good.

>> No.3195606

>>3195562

Which makes it okay somehow. The Bible is really violent and then when you say so, "OH YOU TOOK IT OUT OF CONTEXT!"

Fuck off.

>> No.3195613 [DELETED] 

>>3195606
See >>3195576

>> No.3195616

>>3195541
Why is it disturbing? He basically says he wants revenge against the people who destroyed Jerusalem.

>> No.3195623 [DELETED] 

>>3195616
Because if misunderstood, one gets the impression that it's approving of killing infants, which is not actually what the passage says.

See >>3195607

>> No.3195637

Something about the apostles' lives not passing until the second coming.

>> No.3195647 [DELETED] 

I must be the only person on this board that actually reads the Bible. Everyone else here is way off.

>> No.3195648

>>3195623
>which is not actually what the passage says.
Implying it cant be taken literally by most of believers to justify everything.

>> No.3195666 [DELETED] 

>>3195648
I'm not denying that, am I?

>> No.3195673 [DELETED] 

>>3195668
And the funny thing is that I'm an agnostic on top of it.

>> No.3195668

>>3195647
>I must be the only person on this board that actually reads the Bible.
>Everyone else here is way off.
I read the [insert Mythbook].
You say shit about my [insert Mythbook].
I'm the only one who know how to read, no fuck off you heretics exegetics.

>Typical shrink-minded

>> No.3195671

>>3195647
It's a pretty shit book, filled with inconsistencies and contradictions. 0/10, would not read again.

>> No.3195675

Luke 14:26
i use this to justify avoiding being around my nutcase religious family

>> No.3195687

>>3195607
NOT TRUE, you lazy reader.

Just because there is a reference to Kings 8:12 (which also mentions baby-smashing, this time as a lamentable thing because it's happening to babies we like) does not mean they are talking about the same things.

This is talking about the babies of Babylon, a prophecy of God's justice.

Psalm 137:8-9
O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us-- he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

>> No.3195694 [DELETED] 

>>3195606
It's a little odd that atheists complain that God is doing things they don't exactly disapprove of anyway.

>> No.3195703 [DELETED] 

>>3195687
Well, that's basically what the anon said.

>> No.3195710

>>3195703
No, it is the opposite. Pay attention.

>> No.3195712
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3195712

>>3195694
1/10
You made me laugh btw

>> No.3195716

This whole topic is basically damage control and, "You just don't understand the original Hebrew words!"

The bible just shouldn't be read really. No one can prove anything from it, and then you have people killing each other over their own interpretations of it.

>> No.3195729 [DELETED] 

>>3195716
>This whole topic is basically damage control and, "You just don't understand the original Hebrew words!"

Well, I kind of doubt that Dawkins bothers to check what the Hebrew text says.

>> No.3195730
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3195730

>>3195562

So, somehow that justifies the act of slaughtering a few dozen people who were simply teasing the guy.... because they were young adults or teenagers and not children?

>mfw

>> No.3195733 [DELETED] 

>>3195730
http://bible.cc/2_kings/2-23.htm

Explained in more detail here.

>> No.3195732

>>3195730
Like I said in >>3195593
>I find these apologetics far more disturbing than the plain text.

>> No.3195738 [DELETED] 
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3195738

>>3195712

>> No.3195737

>>3195729

It doesn't fucking matter. We don't KNOW THE ORIGINAL MEANING OF THE HEBREW WORDS ANYWAY!

The bible was a collection of stories from dozens of villages, but people don't generally know this. How can you even site this shit when every story if from a different generation, and most of it is written or told by retarded pheasants who couldn't fucking read.

>> No.3195742
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3195742

mfw christfags can't see the words in front of them and have to conjure up replacement meanings in 'interpretations'.

Sure is high school english class in here.

>> No.3195753 [DELETED] 

>>3195742
Reminding you that I'm an agnostic.

>> No.3195751

>>3195738

christians: Human life is sacred before it can think, but once it's born, fuck 'em, it'll all get sorted out in heaven anyways.

atheists: What the fuck are you doing!?

>> No.3195754

>>3195733

>Here, it's all explained at this religious website.

>> No.3195748

Matt 6:28:34 "And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

>> No.3195758 [DELETED] 

>>3195754
Well, if you can come up with a better site than that, I'd like to see it.

>> No.3195755

>>3195737
>We don't KNOW THE ORIGINAL MEANING OF THE HEBREW WORDS ANYWAY!
Has never studied a hebrew in his life.
>The bible was a collection of stories from dozens of villages
Has never opened a bible in his life

>> No.3195756
File: 180 KB, 1665x1080, Exegetical-Process.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3195756

>>3195738
>>3195742
Haha!
Fucking exegetic, How does it work.
Pic related.

>> No.3195757

You've all been trolled hard.

>> No.3195770 [DELETED] 
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3195770

Sorry, atheists. You don't play the game, you don't get to make the rules.

>> No.3195767

Revelation 1

12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands,
13 and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man,"dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.
14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.
15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.
16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

>> No.3195776

>>3195756

You see kids, the moral standards of god's people will change over time, because come on, this is fucked up.

Alternatively:

No no, 'killing' is slang for 'being really nice to'

>> No.3195780 [DELETED] 

>>3195776
God doesn't change, but people's perception of him does.

>> No.3195778

Revelation 19
11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.
12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself.
13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.
15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.
16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written: King of kings and Lord of lords.

>> No.3195787

Revelation 21

1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.
5 And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
6 And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment.
7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.
22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.
24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.
25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.
26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.
27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

>> No.3195788 [DELETED] 

>>3195787
>Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful

Well, that would exclude 99% of /b/ from heaven.

>> No.3195789

1 Kings 7:23-26

"He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it. 24 Below the rim, gourds encircled it—ten to a cubit. The gourds were cast in two rows in one piece with the Sea."

Pi equals 3!

>> No.3195798

To reach satisfaction in all
desire its possession in nothing.

To come to possess all
desire the possession of nothing.

To arrive at being all
desire to be nothing.

To come to the knowledge of all
desire the knowledge of nothing.

To come to the pleasure you have not
you must go by a way in which you enjoy not.

To come to the knowledge you have not
you must go by a way in which you know not.

To come to the possession you have not
you must go by a way in which you possess not.

To come to be what you are not
you must go by a way in which you are not.

>> No.3195801

Catholicfag here, but I'm not very religious. My favourite by far is Mark 9:50

“Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt among yourselves, and be at peace with each other.”

>> No.3195802

>>3195778
>>3195787
>>3195767
I prefer the Tolkien's version:
The Ainulindale – “The Music of the Ainur " from the Silmarillon.

>> No.3195809

>>3195802

That's because it's hard to enjoy fiction when it's claiming to be real. Changes it from a story into crackpottery.

>> No.3195811

>>3195801

Now, if only there was a way to make salt lose it's 'saltiness' while still being salt.

>> No.3195813

>>3195809
>That's because it's hard to enjoy fiction when it's claiming to be real.
Haha checkmate!
Both are mythbooks.

>> No.3195835

And so Moses said "Kill the woman and children"

/thread.

>> No.3195836

Mark 12:28-31: And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the most important of all?" Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.

>> No.3195852

>>3195813

Nope, the Silmarillion was written as fiction.

I swear if there are actually people who believe it was real my optimism for the human species will drop to zero.

>> No.3195854

>>3195836

Except the second commandment is not actually a commandment.

>> No.3195860

>>3195852
Question:
Why a writing is better than another?
There is as many contradictions, crack-pottery, violence, and whatever in the Bible than in the Silmarillon.

>> No.3195868

Numbers 22:21 -- And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab. - (KJV)

>> No.3195889

>>3195860

I think you'll find less in the Silmarillion, because that was written by one man over the course of many years, as opposed to a compilation of many books hundreds of years apart with different authors and opinions, mashed into one by the christians in the last days of the roman empire.

The Silmarillion never claims to be anything more than a story, so we can enjoy it on that alone.

Also the writing style is better, as one would expect from tolkien writing in his element.

>> No.3195890

>>3195854
How do you figure?

>> No.3195908

>>3195889
So the Bible rewritten by a sort of Tolkien would be even better?
Or is it prohibited to rewrite books that've been written by the hand of God himself?

For me, Science is a Book of truth continually rewritten.
Bible is a Book of truth continually interpreted.

>> No.3195912 [DELETED] 

Matthew 25:40

"And whatsoever you do unto the least of my brethren, that you also do unto me."

>> No.3195915
File: 111 KB, 635x401, haters.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3195915

> ctrl + f revelation 22
>0 results
"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."
Or, as we say today...

>> No.3195922 [DELETED] 

>>3195912
Interesting footnote. The "chapter/verse" thing in the Bible was an invention of King James's translators. It did not exist in any Bibles made up to that time.

>> No.3195924

>>3195908
>Or is it prohibited to rewrite books that've been written by the hand of God himself?
Yeah, it's kind of retarded to think you can add value beyond what was put there by God... or to not destroy the value.

>> No.3195935 [DELETED] 

Leviticus 18:22 (Fred's favorite passage)

"If a man lieth with a man as with a woman, it is an abomination."

>> No.3195932

>>3195915
Revelation 22
1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light.

>> No.3195940

>>3195932
It's Rev 22:11, I failed to include a proper citation.

>> No.3195945

>>3195924
>what was put there by God
implying he put something there, with all the contradictions, crack-pottery, violence, and whatever...
Youre a pretty shitty Philosopher man.
Pic related.

>> No.3195948
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3195948

>>3195945

>> No.3195972
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3195972

>>3195924
Read the classics:

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion.
Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious.
On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side.
Aristotle 384 BC - 322 BC


BC stand for BEFORE CHRIST...

>> No.3195988

>>3195945
What would make you think that God shouldn't be violent or hard to understand? Time to grow up.

>> No.3195991

>>3195940
Why do you like verse 11? It doesn't make any sense out of the context. Or is that the point, to be edgy by quoting things that don't make sense out of the context?

>> No.3196000

>>3195988
"God is love." (1JO 4:16)
How can an all-loving god be violent?

>> No.3196002

>>3195991
Because it's Biblese for "haters gonna hate" and I was being silly.

>> No.3196007
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3196007

>>3195988
>Time to grow up.
It's time to read.
Pic related.

>> No.3196012 [DELETED] 

>>3196000
We couldn't have stopped Hitler without violence. Sometimes it's for the greater good.

>> No.3196014

>>3196007
Epikouros 341 BC - 271 BC

>> No.3196015

>>3196007
>man defining what an all-powerful God can and can't do
>laughinggirls.tiff

>> No.3196019 [DELETED] 

>>3196015
Besides, he lived before atheism in the modern sense existed.

>> No.3196025

Sageiel 23:12:
"Sage"

>> No.3196027

>>3196012
An all-powerful God could find a solution without bloodshed, like dropping Hitler on some deserted island or even lobotomizing him.

>> No.3196035 [DELETED] 

>>3196027
And what about all his followers?

>> No.3196037

>>3196027
a solution to what? evil?

>> No.3196040

>>3196035
He knows everything.
He could drop him on an island before he got followers.
Dipshit.

>> No.3196046

>>3196035
You get my point, I hope.
If not...
>claims that understanding of divinity is beyond man
>demands to know exactly how God could have removed the Nazi regime from power better
>>3196037
I was responding to >>3196012's Hitler question.

>> No.3196051

>>3196027
Haven't you ever heard of blood sacrifices? Why would you think God doesn't like blood?

>> No.3196055 [DELETED] 

Godwin's Law has been invoked.

>> No.3196056

>>3196007
free will, retard.

>> No.3196058

>>3196000
Because sometimes violence is good for you, pansy.

>> No.3196061

>>3196051
Now you're just being an idiot. I shouldn't dignify you with a response, but an all-loving god wouldn't like blood sacrifice because it would entail one of his creatures being sacrificed needlessly in his name.

The idea of blood payment is a silly and archaic idea borrowed from barbaric cultures that predate Christianity.

>> No.3196069 [DELETED] 

God needed to make an example of Hitler so that anti-Semitism would be discredited forever.

>> No.3196068

>>3196056
Except we already know that free will in the sense of some unquantifiable mind does not exist. God knowingly set into motion the actions of the Universe. He knows all the variables and the consequences of the creation he made.

>> No.3196071

Does anyone watch the fucking pre-requisites?

>> No.3196077 [DELETED] 

>>3196074
Among sane people.

>> No.3196074

>anti-Semitism would be discredited forever
>doesn't know about the Middle East
Can we get this thread away from Hitler?

>> No.3196084 [DELETED] 

>>3196080
Obvious Stormfag is obvious

>> No.3196080
File: 9 KB, 237x212, 0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3196080

>>3196069
rooooh

>> No.3196086

>>3195756

>the bible says what I say it says

>> No.3196088

>>3196074
>believes that Jews are evil because their holy book told them
>insane person

>believes that the world was made in six days by an all-loving god who causes natural disasters
>perfectly rational, well-adjusted human being
Cool story bro.

>> No.3196094

>>3196074
It's true, that Hitler, WWII, and the holocaust drastically changed the collective psyche of Europe and America, in terms of racism, racial purity, and eugenics. The middle east wasn't so much a part of it, so maybe they'll get their own Hitler one day.

>> No.3196102

>>3196068
Foreknowledge is not in any way incompatible with free will. God is timeless. If I know all the moves of a chess game after the fact, it doesn't imply that the players weren't free to choose their moves.

>> No.3196105 [DELETED] 

>>3196094
Anti-Semitism was a rather mainstream view pre-Hitler. The horrors of the Holocaust turned away many who perhaps didn't care for Jews, but never intended for that to happen.

>> No.3196107

>>3196102
Do you accept physics as a fact?

>> No.3196110
File: 20 KB, 469x304, 172138d1305811644-game-thrones-hbo-spoiler-free-not_sure_if_serious.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3196110

>>3196094
>they'll get their own Hitler one day
That's the mind of a psycho... or an obvious troller.

>> No.3196112

>>3196102
The point is, God created everything in the way he did, he could have set a different chain of events into motion that would lead to less or more evil, to a species that would more more or less willing to believe in him, etc.

If He created us this way instead of another, then he did so knowingly condemning many individuals. He decided which chain of events would take place.

>> No.3196113

>>3196061
The Hebrew religion found in the Bible is centered around blood sacrifices of animals. But more to the point, suffering is an important and essential part of life. Love doesn't mean removal of all suffering, but rather that we should have whatever suffering we need to improve and grow.

>> No.3196118

i remember getting trolled every sunday when i was younger

>> No.3196120

>>3196094

There's no doubt about that. The antisemitism common to Christendom since it's inception still infected the enlightenment era, just under the surface. It's no surprise that such an overtly reactionary, traditionalist movement as the fascists would breed a throwback to the earlier, more overt, hatred of the Jews. And modern organisation and technology allowed for the wholesale execution of them.

You'd think people would have learned their lesson about what happens when people who follow bronze age morality get a hold of industrial age societies. But instead they learned to further suppress some of the symptoms, namely bigotry, whether in terms of racism, eugenics, antisemitism, and so on.

>> No.3196123

>>3196107
What kind of question is that? Physics is a system of models for predicting measurements in the natural world.

>> No.3196127

>>3196113
Suffering is an essential part of life? What am I missing out on that the victims of Hurricane Katrina and the Chernobyl meltdown are so privileged to be a part of?

>> No.3196129

>>3196112
You're looking at it like this is the only universe.

What if god made a multiverse where every possible decision and outcome exists in their separate timelines?

Then complaining about this one seems kind of silly, doesnt it?

>> No.3196130

>>3196123
A poorly-worded question. Do you believe that an object's physical properties (mass, volume, inertia, velocity, etc) can be determined using science?

>> No.3196132

>>3196112
He created this universe knowing everything about it, that much is true. Whether he could have done a better job of it is kind of meaningless speculation, since we don't have a clue how to gauge how good a job he did. Presumably, he would have created it in such a way that was ideal for his purposes.

>> No.3196136

This thread didn't start as a /sci/ thread, and it's certainly not a /sci/ thread now.

>> No.3196139

>>3196113

Well, we know the real reason for suffering.

The collision of humans needs with impersonal laws of nature. Or the incompatible needs of two humans.

The question is why people think that the tactics used to resolve the latter would work on the former. And why they would then try to use the spurious tactics they invented in the first example to resolve inter-human problems.

>> No.3196141

>>3196120
It's a little odd to hear fascism called "traditionalist". Of course it had its traditional aspects, especially in its basis in the Roman Empire. But it was mostly new, revolutionary, and in many ways liberal (universal suffrage, modern systems of economic controls, in Itally, the shutting down of the churches and confiscation of church property).

>> No.3196142

>>3196127
Character, probably.

>> No.3196145

>>3196141

Have you ever read Umberto Eco's essay on ur-fascism?

If not, google it right now. It only takes around ten minutes, and it totally nails fascism.

>> No.3196147

>>3196130
An object's physical properties (mass, volume, inertia, velocity) can be measured via the senses and instruments. Science comes in after the fact to turn those measurements into a theoretical framework for making predictions.

>> No.3196152

>>3196141
You can't judge it on the current left/right scale because its an entierly different way of thinking.

Which i may add is what we need, because the current left/right political thing is getting us nowhere.

>> No.3196153

>>3196142
>>3196127

With this way of thinking everything can be accepted by the willing of God.
Even the modern Holocaust?

>> No.3196155

>Science and Math
>Favorite Bible verse
>160 replies

/Sci/ can't go a day without getting trolled by theology and philosophy?

>> No.3196159

>>3196155
>It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
>Aristotle

>> No.3196165

>>3196153

The holocaust is not out of character for god.

>> No.3196173 [DELETED] 

>>3196141
Mussolini loved modernity. Hitler hated it.

>> No.3196174

>>3196159

>A man may troll /sci/ every day with nothing more than a picture of a bible and one line of text
>Socrates

>> No.3196175

>>3196159
But this is so obviously a troll that not even desperate quote spouting can save you from ridicule.

>> No.3196177

>>3196165
Well, maybe he was punishing the khazars for impersonating hebrews ^_^

>> No.3196190
File: 85 KB, 480x600, 10-son-i-am-disappoint.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3196190

>come back from /v/ after E3 mode
>"Can't wait to come back to /sci/!"
>first thread besides sticky
>"hey /sci/, whats your favorite bible verse?"
>147 posts and 14 image replies omitted.

>> No.3196192
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3196192

>>3196175
>can save you from ridicule.
>tripfag

>> No.3196204

Get Grease Monkey with the 4chan filter.

Put ! in the email field and the following in the comment field:

god;religion;religious;agnostic;atheist;theist;christian;jesus;carl;sagan;transhumanism;quantum;pony
;Bible;philosophy

Suddenly, /sci/ is an actual science and math board with no troll, pseudo intellectuals, and children

>> No.3196207

>kill all the people, the children, the little girls, the animals...

>implying that beating the army into submission and fighting over a decade of insurrection is superior to massacring everyone and taking the land as your own

How many soldiers died in the Iraq war proper? How many soldier have died in the occupation effort?

>> No.3196210

>>3196145
reading...

>> No.3196211
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3196211

>>3196204

>mfw there's no more threads left

>> No.3196216 [DELETED] 

>>3196204
;dawkins

>> No.3196220

>>3196210

Cool! I don't even care if you get some other message from it than I did. Everyone should read it once.

This stuff should be taught in high school.

>> No.3196241

>>3196207
>>3196211
Come on!
There's Eco, Tolkien, Aristotle and Epicure in this shitty thread.
It can't be so bad btw

>> No.3196251

>>3196241
and Hipatia (my secret waifu)
"
Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies. To teach superstitions as truths is a most terrible thing. The child mind accepts and believes them, and only through great pain and perhaps tragedy can he be in after years relieved of them.
"
>Hypatia 350-415 BC

>> No.3196256

>>3196251
In fact men will fight for a superstition quite as quickly as for a living truth - often more so, since a superstition is so intangible you cannot get at it to refute it, but truth is a point of view, and so is changeable.
>Hypatia

>> No.3196258

>>3196145
Good article. I wouldn't use the term "traditionalism" personally. He's talking about a "sacred mythology", one which is sometimes created overnight, and so there is no ACTUAL tradition necessarily involved in this "traditionalism".

>> No.3196269

>>3196258

Though in Nazi Germany, at least, fascism was cobbled together from the Christian traditions. The antisemitic component of that ideology was not arbitrary, it was part of a long tradition of antisemitism that stretches back as far as the crucifixion.

>> No.3196275
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3196275

>>3196269
>Though in Nazi Germany, at least, fascism was cobbled together from the Christian traditions.

>> No.3196284 [DELETED] 

>>3196275
Pagan traditions really, although Hitler did capitalize on centuries of anti-Semitism in Germany.

>> No.3196287

>>3196275

Not FULL retard, surely?

Germans were Christian. Nazi's were Christian. Hitler was Catholic, for pities sake.

There is a decent argument to be made that they were moving towards a sort of odd, new religion of Christian and proto-Germanic roots, but there is no argument that the stamp of Christianity was not all over fascism in Germany.

Hitchens says that fascism is the Catholic far-right. I wouldn't go quite that far.

>> No.3196293 [DELETED] 

>>3196287
They were not Christians, they were neo-pagans. Practicing Christians were not even permitted in the SS.

>> No.3196292

>>3196284

He did not just capitalize on it; he was born out of it, he rode on a wave of it.

The holocaust is the natural conclusion of that kind of idiotic bigotry existing in the modern world.

>> No.3196297 [DELETED] 

>>3196292
Exactly. As a youth, he absorbed the anti-Semitism that was common in 1900s Austria.

>> No.3196296

>>3196269
Tthose Christians with there Roman religion:
Ponce-Pilatus (a Roman consul) killed Jesus (God of the future Romans)...

Someone could explain this oxymoron?

>> No.3196298

>>3196287
>Hitler was Catholic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views

>> No.3196302
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3196302

mfw this thread was started as part of a failed raid organized over at /b/.

>"Post ending in dubs decides which board we raid and with what"
>/sci/ with bibles

And just look, hours later with 180+ replies its still on the front page.

Never change /sci/

>> No.3196305

Genesys 1:1
At this moment he already knew EVERYTHING THAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE
All the suffering;
All the "blasfemy";
All the wars;
All the "sins"
All the people who would suicide;
All the people who would "listen to the devil" do bads stuff and "go to hell"

He KNEW IT at that point!

So there is no way that a omnipotent AND good god make a world like this.

Its revolting to know that people insists to defend that character.

>> No.3196307

>>3196293

Let me correct myself, then; Most Nazi's were Christian. Most Germans were Christian. And the SS was not a pagan organisation.

>> No.3196310 [DELETED] 

>>3196305
Now Jews are often more enlightened on this than Christians. Many Jewish scholars will tell you that God isn't necessarily omnipotent or possessed of absolute power where he can do anything he wants.

>> No.3196317

>>3196298

We can never know what he held in his heart. But he certainly spoke and wrote a lot about being Christian.

And I have no doubt that he would have tried his hand at making a religion around himself as a Christ or Mohammed or Kim style figure. Either cynically, or simply because he became just that deluded. But this did not happen.

>> No.3196318 [DELETED] 

The SS was not a Christian outfit, and the Nazis' penchant for the occult and other pagan practices is well documented. Plus they were friends of the Muslims.

>> No.3196327 [DELETED] 

>>3196317
I think Hitler had some vague belief in God or divine providence. But he was an admirer of Islam and spoke with regret that Germany was a Christian nation.

>> No.3196326

Luke 17:26 ' and the flood came and destroyed them all'
did'nt get the fish though did it

>> No.3196328

"Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who is close to me!" declares the LORD Almighty. "Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn my hand against the little ones.

Zecheriah 13:7


the old testament is so much more badass

>> No.3196335
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3196335

>>3196318

>> No.3196342

>>3196307
>Let me correct myself, then; Most Nazi's were Christian. Most Germans were Christian.
Sure. Most would certainly self-identify as Christians, which is why Hitler put it in speeches just like modern politicians. However, Hitler famously complained about how Christianity was not well suited to Naziism, as it was "weak", and he would have an easier time with Islam instead.
>And the SS was not a pagan organisation.
I'm not so sure about that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_and_occultism

>> No.3196347 [DELETED] 

>>3196342
Hitler once said "Of all the religions we could have had, why did it have to be Christianity? Why not Mohammedanism? Or the religion of the Japanese. That's a warrior faith."

>> No.3196348

>>3196305
That's absurd. That's a total non sequitur. You're basically saying it would be better if the world didn't exist. Bullshit.

>> No.3196355
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3196355

>>3196348

>> No.3196358

>>3196310
How apropriate. Every time there is something wrong, they try to fit in some other way to not lose followers.
Ignore what they dont want and pick only what serves.

>> No.3196365
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3196365

>>3196256
>>3196251

>> No.3196366 [DELETED] 

>>3196358
Don't atheists do this too?

>> No.3196373

>>3196342
>>3196342

I would tend towards believing Hitler when he said things like that. Why would we put more stock in his few statements towards Islam than his countless statements in support of Christianity? Nothing I have read on the matter indicates he had any more crises of faith than any other Christian we may study historically.

The connection of Nazism and the occult is nowhere near as well established as the link between it and Christianity.


Either way, all I am saying is that antisemitism in Nazi Germany was not invented whole cloth by Hitler. It was a natural and logical progression from existing antisemitism in Christendom.

As for the fascists themselves in other matters, they are no different from any such ideologies. They claimed an absolute authority, they made whatever justifications they had to to get people to go along with it, and they exercised it according to their will. Invented by men, and run by men.

>> No.3196385

>>3196348
People are not led around by an unchangeable fate.

>> No.3196393

>>3196373
>Why would we put more stock in his few statements towards Islam than his countless statements in support of Christianity?
I didn't say he was a Muslim. But he certainly was not a Christian. As the anon said, he was a neo-pagan, and as the essay we were discussing stated, Nazi-ism was decidedly anti-Christian.

http://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf

>It was a natural and logical progression from existing antisemitism in Christendom.
i.e. in Europe. Yes, antisemitism has always existed in Europe... and in the middle east. You don't have to be a Christian to be antisemitic, and and you don't have to be antisemitic to be Christian. The two are not connected.

>> No.3196397

>>3196366
The whole point of lacking religion is that with a lack of dogma you can actually learn and admit when you were wrong. If something makes the most sense, then it's the most likely idea to be correct. You don't have to shift all of your other ideas around some that are unchangable. If that one central idea is contradicted by all sorts of other things, then it's time to rework it.

>> No.3196399

Proverbs 12:1
>Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
>but whoever hates correction is stupid.

>> No.3196412

verse? try chapter. Isiah 14. if you look in any kind of concordance it is the only chapter where Lucifer is mentioned and i still have no idea how or why people equate him to "the devil" i believe "god" calls him "day star" in that chapter...sounds alot like the sun...u know that wonderful thing that allows us to live as we do. then go to the concordance and look for "day star" it only says something about 2 Peter...but it's never there, and they don't even mention Isiah 14 for "day star" fuckin corruption maaan thats all im sayin. glad i said fuck "god" when i was 5 caus my friend said i'd "burn in hell with "satan" for eternity if i didn't believe in this "god" character" whom this was the first time me hearing about either one...satan just seemed like the cooler guy. but the bible does say "love your enemy" or some shit like that.

>> No.3196413

>>3196397
You don't have to lack religion to lack dogma. Far from it.
>>3196399
That's a good one. Sounds like Confucius.

>> No.3196423
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3196423

>>3196397

>> No.3196439

>>3196393

I didn't imply he was Muslim either. He never said he was a Muslim. He did say he was a Christian a lot. Publicly and privately. He also said he had other beliefs, based on neo-pagan ideas, though only in private.

Nazism was not overtly anti-Christian. At the least one could say it wanted to have control over the church. At most it wanted a merger of church and state. It was certainly far more friendly and accommodating to the church than communism, which allowed the orthodox church to operate under it's control, even under Stalin. Nazism was many things, including holding the seeds of a neo-pagan revivalism, but it was also strongly Christian.

>> No.3196458

>>3196439
It controlled the church. Priests who refused to preach the Nazi dogma, which were more than a few, were killed or sent to labor camps. It's pretty absurd to call Naziism "strongly Christian".

>> No.3196482

>>3196458
Let me help you:

>Hitler was Christian
>Hitler was a Nazi
>Christianity is Nazism

>Hitler liked Islam
>Hitler was a Nazi
>Islam is Nazism

The pattern YOU SEE IT?

>> No.3196488

>>3196482
huh? Hitler wasn't a Christian. Hitler didn't like Islam per se, he just admired its cruelty. Naziism was neither Christian or Muslim. It was neo-pagan and anti-christian.

>> No.3196492

>>3196482
>Hitler was vegetaryan
...

>> No.3196494

>>3196458

So they controlled the church, and expelled priests who did not preach what they were told to. So do the pope/church, and he/they is/are Christian.

Besides, it doesn't change that the people who supported the Nazi's were Christian. The people who were members of the Nazi party were Christians. And they called themselves Christian. That's enough for me.

>> No.3196498

>Hitler didn't like Islam per se, he just admired its cruelty.

Haha, obviously you're a /b/ Troll.

>> No.3196504

Most Nazis were Christians, in fact Christianity was used widely in Nazi campaigns to gain support. Hitler himself likely wasn't a Christian though.

>> No.3196506

>>3196492
really?

>> No.3196508
File: 735 B, 41x17, comeon.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3196508

>>3196506

>> No.3196532

>>3195345
A great value of antiquity lies in the fact that its writings are the only ones that modern men still read with exactness.
Friedrich Nietzsche

>> No.3196545

>>3196498
It's true, retard.

>> No.3196551

>>3196545
Implying there is no cruelty depicted in the Bible?

>> No.3196556

>>3196494
>That's enough for me.
Enough for you to what? Fulfill some fantasy you need to believe that Naziism was Christian? Try to go for truth instead of what you want to be the truth.

>> No.3196587

>>3196556

How else are we to determine whether they were Christian or not, but what they say (that they were Christian) and what they do (go to church)?

It would be perverse to say that the Nazi's were not mostly Christians. It would be just short-sighted to say that the regime was not interested in controlling the church. And as for the inner Nazi cadre around Hitler? Well, they said a lot more about being Christian than anything else, and they said an awful lot about being motivated by their faith. That they had some other mad beliefs as well as that is fact, but moot.

I am happy to go for the truth. I am trying to.

>> No.3196597

>>3196587
It is completely irrelevant to keep mentioning that most members of the Nazi party were Christians. The ideology of Naziism had nothing to do with and was not based upon the ideology of Christianity.

This is a fucking boring argument, so this will be my last contribution. Good day, sir.

>> No.3196600

>>3196587
A person's actions are generally a more reliable indication of their beliefs than their words. Just because a person professes to be a Protestant and goes to a Protestant church does not mean they are actually Protestant. Look at the church's teachings, and look at the way they live their lives, not just at the hour or so they happen to sit in a pew on Sunday.

If a man tells me he is a Christian, goes to a Christian church, and spends the rest of his waking hours raping babies, I daresay he isn't a real Christian, or following real Christian beliefs at all.

>> No.3196614

>>3196597
>The ideology of Naziism had nothing to do with and was not based upon the ideology of Christianity.
What?
But they were good with there fellows German-Christians.
Isn't this the definition of a good Christian?
Be good with your Christians friends?

>> No.3196648

Prov. 25:2

>> No.3196706

>>3196614
You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.