Steve Wozniak: Humans will soon surrender to machines! >>http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/157802/20110606/steve-wozniak-humans-will-soon-surrender-supe riority-to-machines.htm What does /sci/ think about this?

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Anonymous Mon Jun 6 07:48:41 2011 No.3183093 [Reply] [Original]

Steve Wozniak: Humans will soon surrender to machines!
>>http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/157802/20110606/steve-wozniak-humans-will-soon-surrender-supe
riority-to-machines.htm

What does /sci/ think about this?

>>	Krakengineer !!5XY+x7grkpt Mon Jun 6 07:51:41 2011 No.3183101 Humans don't surrender too often. Many have silly notions about dying being a better outcome.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 07:53:41 2011 No.3183110 >>3183101 FUCK YEAH [spoiler] filtered

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 07:58:41 2011 No.3183125 Never, the day we surrender to our own inventions made to make OUR lives easier is the day we all die. That is why one day we will rule the universe.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:30:41 2011 No.3184520 bump

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 14:37:41 2011 No.3184543 IN A WORLD RULED BY iBOTS JAILBREAKING IS NOT A METAPHOR

>>	H+ Mon Jun 6 14:56:41 2011 No.3184633 File: 765 KB, 902x439, tra.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Pic related. There will be humans who modify themselves to keep up with the machines. Who integrate machine components into themselves. Transhumans. I'll be one of them.

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:05:41 2011 No.3184677 File: 1.25 MB, 960x2598, 2009-07-12-fabulous_prizes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3184633 DRESDEN CODAK THREAD.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:06:41 2011 No.3184682 File: 21 KB, 252x297, fuckscreen.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3184633 name of the comic, please

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:07:41 2011 No.3184686 File: 1.51 MB, 960x3896, 2009-09-07-the_sleepwalkers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3184677

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:09:41 2011 No.3184693 File: 674 KB, 960x1299, 2010-11-28-dark_science_06.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3184686

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:10:41 2011 No.3184698 File: 756 KB, 960x1299, 2011-02-23-dark_science_08.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3184693

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:10:41 2011 No.3184701 File: 62 KB, 385x460, sleepyko.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3184698

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:10:41 2011 No.3184702 >>3184682 Dresden Codak. It's a little self-indulgent, if you ask me. http://dresdencodak.com/

>>	H+ Mon Jun 6 15:10:41 2011 No.3184705 >>3184682 Dresden Codak. Also, I would hit Kimiko Ross like the fist of an angry god. And then cuddle afterwards. She's such a Woobie.

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:11:41 2011 No.3184708 File: 6 KB, 130x162, 1305516478270.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3184701

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:11:41 2011 No.3184713 File: 23 KB, 345x364, 1305516240110.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3184708

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:12:41 2011 No.3184720 File: 8 KB, 146x160, 1299996553351.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3184713

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:13:41 2011 No.3184724 >>3184705 >>3184702 <3

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:16:41 2011 No.3184744 File: 339 KB, 1500x1063, 333195 - Kimiko_Ross dresden_codak webcomic.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:19:41 2011 No.3184761 File: 72 KB, 398x700, tumblr_lhdhdmkBOe1qc9wc7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:20:41 2011 No.3184763 File: 64 KB, 398x700, tumblr_lhe8p8n6fp1qc9wc7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3184761

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:21:41 2011 No.3184772 I predicted it like 2-3 years ago, when first time live I saw a machine kicing a ball. In 2030 we will make many, just many destructive machines that will be superior to us, and in some time they will rebel to conquer the world, easy shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:23:41 2011 No.3184779 >>3184772 > superior to us, Intelligence is the greatest power. Machines aren't really doing so hot in that department.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:24:41 2011 No.3184784 >>3184779 Besides, machines are an extension of us. We create them. There is no rivalry between "man and machine". We ARE "man and machine". The line started blurring a long time ago.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:25:41 2011 No.3184789 Machines already do most of our work. That is their purpose, to do work we don't want to. Soon enough these intelligent machines will make our political decisions, enforce our laws, WATCH US WHILE WE SLEEP!

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:26:41 2011 No.3184790 File: 208 KB, 800x1230, 05_25_11.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3184784 >We ARE "man and machine". I think everybody here can agree to that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:27:41 2011 No.3184797 We just must programm them right. They should be jsut like humans, just much better and without a will to live. Then, they are going to enrich us more than everything ever invented.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:27:41 2011 No.3184798

>>3184772
Computers become a mature technology in 2015 and never really advance any further, sorry bro.

You can already feel progress slowing to a crawl; a 2010 computer isn't such an exponential leap from a 2000 computer as the 2000 computer was from a 1990 computer, or as that one was to a 1980 computer, etc.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:29:41 2011 No.3184810
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>>3184798
>a 2010 computer isn't such an exponential leap from a 2000 computer as the 2000 computer was from a 1990 computer, or as that one was to a 1980 computer, etc.
ORLY?

Your bullshit arguments from ignorance and intuition are just as bad as the truthers'.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:30:41 2011 No.3184814 >>3184810 There is a pic there, BTW. The thumbnail just doesn't work.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:32:41 2011 No.3184823 >>3184810 >>3184814 >hurr more transistors = better computers

Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:32:41 2011 No.3184826
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>>3184798

>Computers become a mature technology in 2015 and never really advance any further, sorry bro.

Reversible Logic: http://www.zyvex.com/nanotech/reversible.html
Rod Logic (Mechanical nanocomputers):
- Two Types of Mechanical Reversible Logic: http://www.zyvex.com/nanotech/mechano.html
- Eric Drexler on Rod Logic: http://www.halcyon.com/nanojbl/NanoConProc/nanocon2.html

Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:34:41 2011 No.3184844
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>>3184823

What do you mean with "better computers"? More memory capacity/MIPS or better software? There is a big difference.

While I agree that Silicon has a bound in which electrons become subject to so much quantum tunneling that it becomes useless to pursue them any further, other mechanism for computation are available, though I don't agree with Kurzweil's idea that it will arrive "just in time" as one runs out.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:37:41 2011 No.3184863 >>3184823 Define "better". The operations per second and operations per watt are also following Moore's Law, IIRC.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:40:41 2011 No.3184884 >Realize you've wasted most of your life when you could of been advancing society >feelsbadman.jpg

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:41:41 2011 No.3184885 >>3184884 You're young. Just change course.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:42:41 2011 No.3184898

>>3184844
>More memory capacity/MIPS or better software? There is a big difference.
This seems to hit the nail on the head.

Programmers used to be better at squeezing every drop of potential out of a CPU, and creating innovative new implementations. Today they've gotten so lazy that there are still almost no programs that utilize two cores.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:45:41 2011 No.3184907 >>3184898 I wouldn't say they are more lazy than before - they are hesitant to change paradigms.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:46:41 2011 No.3184913 >>3184907 So... you'd say they are more cowardly than they were before?

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:48:41 2011 No.3184918 >>3184913 No, being afraid isn't the problem. Multithreading is inherently more labor-intensive to produce and test. It won't be done until it is needed. In the places where highly parallel programming is required, it already exists.

Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:48:41 2011 No.3184919
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>>3184898

I wouldn't say that. There are a lot of things that are not really a matter of expertise but a matter of raw computing power.

>For example, I was square-and-center of the multidisciplinary push at the end of the 1970s to develop “talking chips”. Turns out it wasn't HARD so much as it was just a computational challenge for the silicon of the day. The theories of S-plane and Z-plane autocorrelation, convolution and excited FIR relaxation mathematics had been worked out by Rabiner and Gold (and of course many others) early in the 1970s, and it was a matter of time before Klatts work in zeroes and poles synthesis (and all his damned recordings of himself, made into public domain data tapes) was encoded for realtime computation on specialized vocoder chips. I was writing both the hardware-computing and the lowest level formant and time-slice synthesis routines. I was there so to speak.

>Point was at least back then, all us insiders knew that we'd get the chips to “speak” once the silicon could support the computational load. And, essentially on a timeline drawn up 5 years before they spoke convincingly, the chips and supporting software, and thousands of hours computational linguistics research paid off. “Speaking” they did. Eventually they were marked for $3.75 each, quantity 10,000. A decade later, the computational abilities of X86 chips were able to compute the whole algorithm 100% in software with no attendant hardware acceleration and achieve the same results. Today, the power in a toaster microcontroller can do the same computing in realtime.

Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:49:41 2011 No.3184925
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>>3184919

>BACK THEN, we were also, probably obviously, attempting to work out voice recognition, or as we called it utterance transcription. It seemed simple enough — sample the audio, keep up with binning it into smallish segments and converting them to spectral data via FFT (fast Fourier transforms), maybe do overlapping FFTs to autocorrelate out the binning and transient spectral noise, and feed the spectral stream to a higher level processor and set of algorithms that could then characterize the segments of the utterance, determine formants and zeros, and somehow turn all that back into phoneme streams, which at an even higher level could be transcripted through the newly developed combo of fuzzy logic and neural synthetic networks, back into the words that were uttered.

>IT WAS A FAILURE, completely. Not only was the computational oomph insufficient (without costing the Naval Research Laboratory's entire custom-chip design budget), but worse — even when utterances were recorded, then analyzed at 1÷1000TH realtime on fairly robust computers (the assumption being, “if we can sim it, eventually we can chip it”), waveforms didn't decode to nice phoneme streams, and nor did whatever was analyzed have enough information-to-noise to make it through huge neural networks to result in an output of words — and better, the original utterance, transcripted. It was depressing, actually.

Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:50:41 2011 No.3184930
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>>3184925

>THEN, somewhere around the mid 1990s came DRAGONSPEAK (and a host of others) that did claim to do pretty decent, but “user trained” transcription. Many a Law Firm, and writer invested in these things. They were almost always “quietly retired” after only a few hours, or few months of elapsed use. The transcription accuracy was fnarking frustrating, even when highly trained. Very depressing.

>NOW, as of “now”, I can talk to my Android phone when doing text messages, and have the utterances whisked off in real time to the Google Cloud, pounded on by a big old bag of processors somewhere, statistically filtered, binned, bagged, extracted and gonkulated, and a few milliseconds later comes the return packet with a surprisingly good transcription for most of what I'm blithering about. Without training, or even contextual hints. I'm amused! Pleased! in Awe!

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:52:41 2011 No.3184941

The cost of developing a new CPU increases exponentially while economic conditions, when they increase at all, do so at percentage levels you can usually count on one hand.

We can't be far off from a point where creating a new CPU would cost more than the entire Earth's GDP.

I mean, once upon a time people were essentially whipping up 486 clones in their garages.

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:54:41 2011 No.3184947 File: 114 KB, 900x764, The_Death_of_Alan_Turing_by_specimenx.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3184941 >The cost of developing a new CPU increases exponentially Source? No, really, I'm curious.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:54:41 2011 No.3184951 >>3184941 This is an interesting argument, but if it is correct the effects have not shown up yet in a deviation from Moore's Law.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:56:41 2011 No.3184957

>>3184919
> There are a lot of things that are ... a matter of raw computing power.
QFT.

Any realtime application is fundamentally limited by the speed of hardware. If you can only decode 0.98 seconds of video per second, you're never going to have on-the-fly video streams. Once you're past that real-time hurdle - one second, per second, every second - the work pays off. (Granted, there's quite a lot you can do to try to get under that hurdle - but if it takes two years to develop an algorithm that's twice as efficient, you're lagging behind Moore's Law).

Quantitatively faster computers lead to qualitative changes in what can be done on them.

Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 15:58:41 2011 No.3184966

>>3184957

There's also how we can't even fold a protein without asking people all over the world to download BOINC or applying for CPU cycles on some random supercomputer, only to get kicked out in half an hour when someone needs to run his weather simulation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 15:59:41 2011 No.3184972 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxWjuuJ6SLE Skynet will be raping our women sooner than you think

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:02:41 2011 No.3184984

If the newest trends in computing hold true we won't see more faster computers but more shitty touch screens and flashy gimmicks. it might well be that the world will be filled with consumer zombies conditioned to buy the latest useless device all while a few well meaning cyborgs are desperately trying to shield their beloved AI from the horrors of human stupidity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:04:41 2011 No.3185001 >>3184972 irrelevant video is irrelevant.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:05:41 2011 No.3185003
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>>3184972
not only was that completely unrelated to this topic or even /sci/ but that was just plain stupid.

was that seriously just dialog from a bad porno?

I fucking hate you and want those 4 minutes of my life back

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:05:41 2011 No.3185006 >>3184984 Your emotional frustration has nothing to do with the actual progress of computing. Moore's law is still holding, and you know you want one of the touchpads from Star Trek. Don't deny it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:08:41 2011 No.3185016 File: 117 KB, 350x336, 1217332952443.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3184984 while I commend your anti-consumerist attitude, I feel you're missing the concept of this entire thread.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:10:41 2011 No.3185031 File: 35 KB, 500x333, 1225518628864.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3185006 fuck yea I want a tricorder! and one of those touch pads and maybe even some transparent acrylic data chips to throw around my desk from time to time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:12:41 2011 No.3185038 File: 39 KB, 617x538, images..jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3184984 >If the newest trends in computing hold true we won't see more faster computers but more shitty touch screens and flashy gimmicks. Original content

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:14:41 2011 No.3185045

>>3185006
we are actually getting close to the end of Moore's Law (quantum tunneling ad all that)and I hear you saying "well what about quantum computers" those would be a complete redesign of all basic computer coding and processes nothing we have today would really be applicable. and no I don't want the touchpads from Star Trek I want buttons dammit where is my tactile feedback!

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:15:41 2011 No.3185050

>>3185038
That's because computing devices are mainstream now. Once upon a time, only people who were "into tech" made computer purchasing decisions.

This isn't a bad thing, really. We bemoan how "stupid" the population is, but really, being mainstream is what is propelling the explosive growth of the tech. There's a lot of money involved - meaning it impacts a lot of lives in meaningful ways. Geeks still get their gadgets - they shouldn't be butthurt that not everyone is a geek. That's always been the case.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:16:41 2011 No.3185058

>>3185045
>and no I don't want the touchpads from Star Trek I want buttons dammit where is my tactile feedback!
All of this is irrelevant once you have various types of mind-machine interface. Ever read Rainbow's End? I want myself a set of Epiphany gear.

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:18:41 2011 No.3185071

>>3185016
I understand what this thread is about

"We must surrender to the hammer and screw driver, the light bulb will rule the world with a telegraph voice humans will only be useful to shovel Cole into the belly of the mechanical beast!"
that about right?

or how about

"Smartphones are smarter than most people, we should give them human rights!"

>>	Colonel Coffee Mug !phJ7yIcs.Q Mon Jun 6 16:18:41 2011 No.3185072 >>3185045 I posted links to Rod Logic systems above: >>3184826

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:21:41 2011 No.3185090 File: 44 KB, 357x450, 1238373897573.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3185071

Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:23:41 2011 No.3185097

>Rainbow's End
sounds gay lol

seriously we have had that shit for years and a cheap one is even available now, if you think anything other than gimmicky shit is going to be the future go see what is coming out of the E3 show this year, Xbox dumping the controller for kinect is an example of catering to the lowest common denominator. just because a cellphone is smarter than the average user doesn't mean that machines will takeover.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:28:41 2011 No.3185117 File: 62 KB, 550x356, world-of-tomorrow.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3185090 in the far future of 1960 we will all have flying cars, personal robots and live on the moon! predicting the future is allays bullshit

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:29:41 2011 No.3185121 >>3185097 My estimation of your IQ just dropped 15 points.

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:30:41 2011 No.3185131 >>3185121 We don't agree on the same thing, you must be an idiot!

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:38:41 2011 No.3185163 >>3185131 It was mainly this: >>Rainbow's End >sounds gay lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 16:41:41 2011 No.3185176 >>3185163 ah I see, you have no sense of humor

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 17:13:41 2011 No.3185336 File: 843 KB, 200x210, hatersghate.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The Future's Pretty Cool /thread

>>	Anonymous Mon Jun 6 17:15:41 2011 No.3185345 Machines will surrender to my penis before that happens.

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/sci/ - Science & Math