/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3165634]

Angela Merkel has a PhD in physics
She is also a theist and against nuclear energy

[Anonymous No.3165649]

What field of physics? She is not necessarily an expert on nuclear physics.
Furthermore, the reasons to be opposed to nuclear power are hardly physical; most have to do with an economic argument versus an ecological, environmental downside, and also the threat to people. Neither of those are fields a Physics PhD is an expert in.

I won't comment on religion because... come on, /sci/.

[Anonymous No.3165661]

>>3165649
wikipedia says physical chemist

[Anonymous No.3165670]

>>3165661
well thats very different from a physicist, doesnt really require much of an understanding of nuclear physics at all, anyway she's also the chancellor of Germany, her nuclear views have nothing to do with physics, economics, environmentalism or public safety and everything to do with politics.

[Anonymous No.3165678]

Her PhD is in physical chemistry.

There are successful scientists who are theists, just not fundamentalists.

There are reasons to be against nuclear power. Despite what you may hear from the main two camps about it on /sci/, it is neither a miraculous completely safe clean affordable tech nor a horribly dangerous evil bomb-waiting-to-happen dirty technology. Particularly because a lot of the reactor types the kiddies brag about here have never been actually put to use before, so they would require a lot of R&D money, even if they turned out to be feasible.

[Anonymous No.3165687]

>>3165634

She's pandering to dumb dumbs.

German's are fucked

[Anonymous No.3165686]

>>3165678
>>3165670
truth.

[Anonymous No.3165709]

>>3165687

Fucking apostrophes.

>>3165678

Regular reactors are incredibly safe and clean compared to other fossil fuels (and 'renewables'!). One of the largest earthquakes in recent times couldn't even fuck 50 year old tech, nevermind modern versions.

The designers of these plants take safety incredibly seriously, I trust them.

I don't trust the Chinese or Indians though, they are going to have a major accident as soon as their plants are online.

[Anonymous No.3165758]

>>3165709

The Chinese are building thorium fluoride reactors. It'll be quite illuminating if they manage to find a way to fuck that up.

[Anonymous No.3165825]

>>3165709

The fukushima plant did have a partial meltdown in at least one reactor (I know that one for a fact, I wanna say that two of them did, but I am too lazy to look it up), and they still haven't contained the problem. Exactly what is your definition of "fucked"?

I am actually for nuclear power, and I have little desire to have this (or any other thread) turn into a flame war about nuclear energy. Nuclear does have a good track record, and newer tech would help keep it that way, but when shit goes wrong we have almost no ability to clean it up in a timely fashion. Again using the example of the fukushima plant, since it was pretty well run (except for the falsification of some inspection records by TEPCO in the early 2000's), the fact that automated cooling systems likely won't be restored in some of the reactors for another month, and with cold shutdown still being 4+ months away suggest we have a very poor ability to deal with it when things do go wrong. Before you mention oil spills, we do have methods for cleaning those up. Look at how quickly we cleaned up the gulf after they finally fucking managed to close off that pipe. The fact that they took that long to close off the leak does fall under the same criticism that I have for nuclear though. I'm really not for offshore drilling. Now THAT is something with a horrendous safety record.

[Anonymous No.3165869]

>>3165825
>The fukushima plant did have a partial meltdown in at least one reactor

Last I heard it had reached complete meltdown in all three active reactors.

Neither the quake nor the tsunami did anything to them directly, though. It was the loss of external power shutting down the coolant pumps that led to the meltdown.

The dependency on external power is a fatal flaw that led to a disaster which could have been avoided had the reactors been decommissioned ten years ago like they were supposed to be. Modern designs eliminate this flaw and many more. Fluid-fueled reactors in particular eliminate the whole problem of reactors in shutdown continuing to produce tremendous heat.

>Look at how quickly we cleaned up the gulf

That was no victory. The bacteria that they used to scavenge the oil turned all of it directly into CO2. They may as well have lit the spill on fire.

[Anonymous No.3165900]

>>3165869

Well, no. Lighting it on fire would be a pretty disastrous event because of heat pollution. It would decimate a lot of fish populations. Fish have virtually no ability to regulate body temp, so significant variations from the climate they're adapted to tend to kill them quickly.

Also, CO2 is an inert gas which doesn't harm any wildlife directly. It's certainly bad for its greenhouse effect, but that was exactly what it was going to end up becoming anyway, so it was definitely a win over leaving it in the water.

The lack of modern reactors is a serious problem for nuclear. Which is retarded, I know, as it is the problems that increasingly dated plants are having (and idiot environmentalists who think we can power the world on renewables with current tech) that prevent the new ones from being built. The world sucks.

[Anonymous No.3165915]

>>3165758

They may be researching LFTR but they're actively using regular reactors. Don't even imply LFTR is fool proof, it's not, you're looking at it with rose tinted glasses.>>3165825


http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf63.html
>Mainland China has 14 nuclear power reactors in operation, more than 25 under construction, and more about to start construction soon.

>>3165825
They had 3 full meltdowns and it's contained except for some slightly radioactive water. 4 months is nothing, the IAEA has stated that their response to the accident has been nothing short of exemplary.

No where near the scale of the gulf oil disaster, 3 months of a constant stream of oil into the ocean before it was stopped. (780,000m³ of oil) You think our methods of controlling an oil spill are acceptable? It's iffy at best and not very effective. (bags of hair!)

[Anonymous No.3165921]

I had an otherwise brilliant chemistry teacher who was a creationist. He could completely explain carbon 14 decay and shit like that, but he suspended disbelief or something.

[Anonymous No.3165943]

I first read that in my intro to German textbook and my mind was blown.

Then I went to Berlin and saw a shit load of pics of her and one said she was had a doctorate in Physics.

Got me sorta moist down there.

[Anonymous No.3165960]

>>3165943

Well aren't you just a little bit easily impressed, dawww.

[Anonymous No.3165991]

>>3165915
>They may be researching LFTR but they're actively using regular reactors

Of course they are. Those reactors were in operation or plans laid down before gen IV designs were even conceived. Regardless, they're going to enjoy the benefits of MSRs first.

>Don't even imply LFTR is fool proof, it's not, you're looking at it with rose tinted glasses

Strawman much?

No source of energy is entirely without cost or risk. LFTR is one of the more attractive options, though. Screwing that up will take some doing compared to reactors currently in service.

[Anonymous No.3166057]

>>3165991

Go shove your strawman up your dick.

I'm confident you don't have any technical expertise in nuclear reactors or large scale engineering projects but I'll ask you first. Have you any experience in these fields?

Yes, from the onset LFTR looks attractive but that's mainly because of the faggy fanboy cheering from around here. It's still in its infancy and has yet to be proven on a large scale, they've had serious difficulties with a tiny experimental reactor (with the potential of a disaster) so just imagine the same problem on something magnitudes larger.

[Anonymous No.3166094]

>>3166057
Something tells me you haven't actually researched the LFTR in-depth

[Anonymous No.3166108]

>>3166094

Something tells me you're a moron

[Anonymous No.3166126]

>>3166057
>Have you any experience in these fields?

Minored in nuclear eng, did some research assist on pebble bed and MSR tech. Ultimately went on to petroleum engineering (it pays better, what can I say?). The sulfur content of shale/oil sands is currently being a real pain in my ass.

What are your credentials, or do you just sit in your chair demanding them of everyone else as though you know what you're talking about?

[Anonymous No.3166140]

Actually, German "sovereignty" is a cute notion. Knowing their economy is bank rolled by ol Putin.

The fastest growing population of billionaires in Eurasia is Russia. Specifically, Russian petro chem.

And if you travel to EU in winter, they use a lot of nat gas and kerosine. If you think US's dependence on OPEC is bad... Germany has no energy resources and with each nuclear plant off line they have to put nat gas plants online.

So yes please... Germany kill off nuclear and please buy more Russian gas pipe lines like the Germanic whore you are.

[Anonymous No.3166144]

This is a purely political move. Her party is losing votes recently; she is appealing to hippies to get them back. Who's shocked?

[Anonymous No.3166168]

>>3166140
Wat?

Their dependence on Russian gas doesn't have to do shit with their electric energy production. Half of Europe needs Russian gas, that's true, but the amount of that which goes into electricity is tiny. We need that shit to keep our apartments warm during the winter.

Other than that .. Germany's decision to quit nuclear energy was signed a good 10 years ago, this isn't news.

[Anonymous No.3166173]

>HORY SHET SHUT DOWN NUCLEAR POWER
>IT FUKUSHIMA GONA KILL PEOPLEZ
-Germans


>2 months later...
>12 Germans killed by evolved lethal ecoli strain in cucumber

el oh el... Germany, you used to be cool. Now your just sad. EU general. Except France. France has balls again.

[Anonymous No.3166181]

With the recent Fatwa against Drawin?

[Anonymous No.3166186]

>>3166126
BEng Mechanical with 5 years prior manufacturing experience.

I know for a fact that no matter how attractive LFTR is right now, it will be a super pain in the ass to get a full size plant up to the standard of a modern, normal reactor with plenty of unforeseen consequences along the way.

[Anonymous No.3166193]

>>3166168
>Electrical Heaters
EU economy are stagnant. Russia knows how to milk them. Play to their irrational fears.

tbh, Russia foreign/econ policy is far more savvy Post Cold War. They really know how to play 'decadent' EU nations.

[Anonymous No.3166200]

>>3166173
Again, if you weren't 16 years old, you would've known that the bill to shut down all current plants was signed in 2000.

Merkel and her party DID prolong the deadline, just shortly before the Fukushima incident - and got literally assraped in the following regional elections. She only backed up on it to have the slightest chance of getting voted back into the seat.

[Anonymous No.3166219]

>>3166200
>Russia bans ALL FOOD from Germany (not just cucumbers.
>Germans cry, but don't do shit.

Now it's just sad. Russians making unfair embargoes due to recent ecole incident. What is Germany going to do? In return, ban Russian nat gas and Russian crude?

Oh wai- Germany would have to shut down.

[Anonymous No.3166238]

>>3166219
Not just Germany. Like I said, basically the whole of Europe needs their Gas, the Ruskies have our balls in a vice grip.

Except me and a few thousand other cool dudes, who use the surplus heat from our cities garbage burning facility to keep our places warm.

[Liberty !!nQrIRh+JHbs No.3167067]

> christian
> fascist
> against nuclear

Can't say I am shocked.

[Anonymous No.3167084]

She got her PhD in a socialist shithole with low standards.

[Anonymous No.3167093]

She's a fucking embarrassment to this country. Can't wait for the end of her term.

[Anonymous No.3167094]

>>3167067
>PhD in physics

Point


------
Your head

[Anonymous No.3167113]

>>3167084

Say what you want about the GDR (or the soviet union for that matter), but their science education was top notch.

[Anonymous No.3167120]

>>3165634
>>3165634
She is also a woman

[Atwill !kelPcGZQlE No.3167129]

>>3167120
The jury is still out on that one.

[Liberty !!nQrIRh+JHbs No.3167138]

>>3167094

It was established she does not have a PhD in physics

[Anonymous No.3167841]

well one thing ^^
wikipedia is wrong. ms merkel has a PhD in Physics. the english wikipedia article is mistranslated.
source: i'm fucking german and i study at the same university and the same subject as ms merkel ^^ (=institut of radiology)

[Anonymous No.3167854]

No contradiction between God and a PhD in physics.

[Anonymous No.3167874]

it doesnt matter what she actualy believes, she has to be anti nuclear to get re-elected

[Josef !!nUf2NflSAyw No.3167976]

>>3167841
Merkel hat nen Ost-Doktor, der zählt ungefähr so viel wie einer in Medizin: nen Scheißdreck.

[Anonymous No.3168047]

Intersting thread, much respect /sci/
Imma change the subject a bit and ask about
something that has been on my mind lately.
Fusion reactors, what is going on with them? I read they made an experiemental one in france (forgot exact city), but is there any hope for fusion power? What do you guys think?

[Anonymous No.3168076]

>>3168047

They don't even know how to build all the ITER components yet. Maybe in 20 we will see it working, but its just for experimental purposes, nothing serious.

There was a more serious (paper only) project. Can't remember the name. But it could give 10MW consuming only 1 to maintain the reactin.

Anyways, the future (+50 years, allways "in 50 years") is pretty cool.

[Anonymous No.3168118]

>>3168047
ITER is under construction. Its predecessor, JET, has just undergone an upgrade; the next plasma is due in about 3 months.

Previously, JET has achieved Q values (power out / power in) of 0.7, which isn't break-even but it's not really that far off, i.e. they need a 50% improvement, as opposed to an orders-of-magnitude improvement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_European_Torus
http://www.jet.efda.org/jet/

The Japanese JT-60 reactor has achieved theoretically better conditions but it isn't equipped to handle Tritium, so it can't actually generate a noticeable amount of power (D-D fusion is much weaker than D-T).

[Anonymous No.3168128]

Hat sich eh bloß nach oben gefickt.

[Anonymous No.3168169]

>>3168047
Shit will work definitely and deliver energy gains.
The actual problem is not confinement and temperature or instabilities and all that, that has been figured out.
The Problem is currently breeding the tritium and, more importantly, building a first wall that will actually enable you to breed Tritium.
And also maybe it will just be way to fucking expensive, after all tens of thousands of tons of superconductors sure as fuck don't come cheap, or the plasma will just scrap of your wall faster than you can rebuild it, which would kinda suck, too.
Looks pretty, though

[Anonymous No.3168165]

>>3168128

die muss zu tode geraped worden sein, so sieht die aus !

[Anonymous No.3168193]

>>3167138
wikipedia says she does
thesis on quantum chemistry
borderline physics but still physics imo

[Anonymous No.3168208]

>>3167976
Immernoch mehr als du hast.

[Anonymous No.3168222]

>>3168208
Epic burn, brah.

[Anonymous No.3168612]

Question. Why did iron man use palladium?

[Josef !!nUf2NflSAyw No.3168621]

>>3168208
Meinste, eh? Ich hab eben Abi gemacht, niemand kann mir was!

[Bernd No.3168789]

>>3168165
lol bernd.

[Josef !!nUf2NflSAyw No.3168793]

>>3168789 lol Bernd
>>3168128 geraped
Komputiert nicht.

[Anonymous No.3168802]

>>3168621
du vollpfosten ey du bisswo zwölf hier oder wer du scheiße ey abi an arsch dran du pflaume

[Josef !!nUf2NflSAyw No.3168807]

>>3168802
man du must basuka nemen und auf den balan vorne sind muni mach dich unsichtba und ge nach vorn hol munie wens ler ist und ge zurük hab bai main ded ab gegugt und wen du das krüpel monster mainst da chste so ne wafe die nimsdu und da komt ain kurz fil zuerst besik umbedinkt die vligenen dinger (die mit dem 4 armen). :) ;) ok das wa ales

[Anonymous No.3168811]

>>3165634

Angela Merkel is a politician. She understands the anti-nuclear backlash from Fukushima considerably better than most people on this board ever will.

[Josef !!nUf2NflSAyw No.3168825]

>>3168811
So you're into German politics, eh? Guess whose party kept the nuclear power plants running in the past. It's nothing but PR to take them down, and pretty insulting to do it because it turned out that nuclear catastrophes are possible.
If you wanna get away from nuclear power a reactor has to blow up, awesome.

[Hopeless Necromantic No.3168834]

So, she spend a lot of time and money learning physical chemistry, and this makes her an expert on metaphysical concepts, economics, the environment, and statistics?

Also, she's a politician, her opinions are not of any value, as they probably aren't even hers.

[Josef !!nUf2NflSAyw No.3168838]

>>3168830 why the fuck have I never heard of her before

[Hopeless Necromantic No.3168844]

>>3168838
I'm sorry I don't give a shit about German politics. Could you tell me current leader of Tanzania? No? Because they're about as relevant to you as Germany is to me.

[Anonymous No.3168846]

>>3168830
>Could it be that she's never done anything of import?
Well, she kissed Bush Jr.'s ass when he was still around. Also, tits.

[Hopeless Necromantic No.3168848]

>>3168846
Which makes her even more of a retard.
Still better than Reagan though.

[Anonymous No.3168849]

>>3168825

Yeah, it's a total PR play that will probably be discarded when the paranoia fades but that only proves that Ms. Merkel is actually pretty good at reading the population.

[Anonymous No.3168851]

If in a matter of minutes...

Russia can
-Get exponential exports to Germany of nat gas...
-Ban German food products due to e coli...

And Merkel just sucks her thumb... EU really is just a joke, compared to the real players. US-Russia-China

[Josef !!nUf2NflSAyw No.3168855]

>>3168851 US-Russia-China

[Hopeless Necromantic No.3168865]

>>3168855
All three of those countries are more relevant to the world than any other European country, except Britain. France, Germany, Spain, Sweden, Norway, the Soviet bloc countries, Switzerland, Portugal, Greece, none of these countries have done anything important since the war, unless you count sports as important.

[Anonymous No.3168867]

>>3166173
France never had balls in the first place.

[Josef !!nUf2NflSAyw No.3168870]

>>3168865
You've watched too much Fox news.

[Hopeless Necromantic No.3168873]

>>3168870
I've never watched Fox news. Your countries REALLY just don't matter very much.

[m1ckey !dkJI/P7Y32 No.3168875]

>>3168865
Please stop it. You're making my head hurt.

[Josef !!nUf2NflSAyw No.3168878]

>>3168875
The fun part is he's probably serious.

[Anonymous No.3168879]

>EU countries
>Pretend to be relevant

That's cute. Atleast France is energy independent unlike the rest of EU.

[Hopeless Necromantic No.3168885]

>>3168878
the REALLY fun part is you can't disprove it, so you're just going to sit there in denial about your country being important, as the big players continue to not let you eat at the adults table.

Even Canada's got an invite, but you don't.

[m1ckey !dkJI/P7Y32 No.3168888]

>>3168878
Yeah...

[Anonymous No.3168889]

>>3168865

Funny you can never have a decent discussion with other intelligent people about real issues without some hivemind american going all "america fuck yeah"

[Anonymous No.3168890]

>>3168849
>Ms. Merkel is actually pretty good at reading the population.
Dude, there have been massive anti nuclear energy protests all over her country. She'd have to be legally retarded to misread that message.

[Anonymous No.3168897]

>>3168890
>German RAMMSTEIN/Bill Kaulitz "Into the Mansoon" teenager is retarded

FTFY

[Hopeless Necromantic No.3168900]

>>3168889
Nevermind that I'm including Canada, Britain, Russia, China, and Japan in my list of countries that matter. It's just truth that the vast majority of European countries have been on the decline in relevance for decades now. The same is true of America, we just have a lot further to fall, but everyone sees China is going to pass us soon.

But please, continue generalizing if it makes you feel any better about being wrong.

[Anonymous No.3168907]

>>3168889
Funny you can never have a decent discussion with other intelligent people about real issues without some hivemind non-American going all "americans are dumb cunts"

[Anonymous No.3168911]

>>3168900
1) USA
2) China
3) Russia

*China and Russia will switch once Russia makes more mullah on fossil fuel exports

4) Japan
5) Brazil
6T) Then Germany/UK/France
7T) Canada/Australia

Canada and Australia will switch with the top EU nations within 5 years.

[m1ckey !dkJI/P7Y32 No.3168912]

For those interested, here's an FP article about the the shift in policy:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/06/01/frau_flip_flop

>>3168900
>The same is true of America, we just have a lot further to fall, but everyone sees China is going to pass us soon.

Elaborate?

[Anonymous No.3168921]

>>3166173
Once they get the Algerians out, they'll be great.

[Hopeless Necromantic No.3168965]

>>3168912
America has been in a decline of relevence since the Cold War started wrapping up. We're not longer in a state where we're building up our military to massive, unprecedented levels, and are slowly beginning to realize that interfering in every world event is not a sustainable policy. So America, while still a huge player in the world, is slowly becoming less relevant.

China, on the other hand, is growing in every way it is possible to grow. They passed Japan and are now the world's second largest economy and are quickly growing even more. They've got more people, land, and resources than us, and will soon become the world's largest economy.

Combine those and the future becomes fairly obvious. China is going to become a larger world player than the US, and sooner rather than later, and there's very little anyone can do about it.

Furthermore, China owns billions in US bonds, and the US is continuing to elect leaders who have interventionist policies.

The Gap between American rich and poor is growing wider as well, and this recession looks like it's ending, but we didn't fix anything, and we're set up for another big crash soon, and this one might be bigger. Obama's just Bush but slightly more friendly to homosexuals, and the guy after him has a good chance at being another old white Reaganaut fucker, no matter who the republicans run.

[Anonymous No.3168967]

>>3168867
>France never had balls in the first place.

>the Sun King
>The French Revolution
>Napoleon

What?

[m1ckey !dkJI/P7Y32 No.3169019]

>>3168965
According to the NBER, the recession ended in 2009, Chinese provincial GDP looks less impressive, especially in western administrative divisions, their govt has decreased holdings of Treasuries for 5 months running, and GDP isn't even accurate metric to base your dumb assertions on. Coastal cities are suffering from a bubble in commercial and residential real estate as well as commodity price inflation. You also know nothing about geopolitics.

[Hopeless Necromantic No.3169060]

>>3169019
Wow, and I'm the stupid nationalist? Are you in denial about everything, or just about things people say on 4chan?

The NBER is stone cold wrong, unemployment rose for a while after '09, and is currently 9.1%, which is unacceptably high, never mind that house prices are still deflated and business are continuing to either stagnate or shrink.

China still owns a large portion of our debt, 1.16 trillion dollars, which means on a whim they can devalue our currency. They have more people, more land, and more natural resources than us, and those are the three things that your economy is based on. If you don't think China is going to surpass America in GDP, at least in the next 50 years, then you must have secret knowledge of some massive disaster they're going to encounter that I don't know about. Maybe Godzilla will stop fucking around in Japan and go fuck up China, because that's about the only thing that could stop them passing us.

Also, if you don't like using GDP, what do you suggest using to measure the size of an economy?

[Anonymous No.3169063]

She probably is not actually against nuclear energy personally. It's mostly a political decision. Her party was pro-nuclear all the time, but with Fukushima and all, that position just wasn't feasible if you want to win elections.

[m1ckey !dkJI/P7Y32 No.3169112]

>>3169060
>The NBER is stone cold wrong, unemployment rose for a while after '09, and is currently 9.1%, which is unacceptably high, never mind that house prices are still deflated and business are continuing to either stagnate or shrink.

Unemployment is a lagging indicator and isn't only considered in assessing the state of an economy. Fed G-17 reports say you're wrong about industrial production, and it's also irrelevant to whether or not the US is out of a recession.

>China still owns a large portion of our debt, 1.16 trillion dollars, which means on a whim they can devalue our currency.

But they won't, because that would adversely affect their international trade policy. Undervaluing the yuan relative to the dollar via holdings of dollar denominated assets helps chinese exports.

>They have more people, more land, and more natural resources than us, and those are the three things that your economy is based on. If you don't think China is going to surpass America in GDP, at least in the next 50 years, then you must have secret knowledge of some massive disaster they're going to encounter that I don't know about. Maybe Godzilla will stop fucking around in Japan and go fuck up China, because that's about the only thing that could stop them passing us.

Already told you. Real estate bubble, inflation. Also shifting demographic dynamics affecting labor markets.

[m1ckey !dkJI/P7Y32 No.3169127]

>>3169060
And GDP is fine for indicating a general direction of the economy, but extrapolating from that one broad indicator alone isn't. Did I ever claim to not like GDP? You also have no empirical data to back up your claims. No citations or sources.