FLIGHT

[dexcat No.3165627]

Hey resident femfag art student here, I've had a theory on giving humans functional wings since 10th grade, and am now strongly considering leaving art school to pursue it. Just wondering if its worth the bother; has someone tried this before? Has it been proven conclusively impossible? And what would i need to study other than bio?

[Anonymous No.3165633]

stick with your shitty liberal art bullshit

[Anonymous No.3165639]

I am intrigued. Explain some more about the wings idea before you go back to your 24 pack.

[bella thorne No.3165646]

What were you doing, trying to see how many trolls you can fit into once post? I count 5.

[dexcat No.3165733]

not trolling at all thank you. My theory was sparked when my science teacher told me about the human genome project, and i am aware i probably misspelt that. I figure if we looked at animals with similar bone and tissue structure as ours, for example a bats have wings with a similar bone structure to human hands, and conduct a similar project, isolated the genes that make the wings and make them work and then figure a way to get the human body to accept them and work. That last bit is where i got stuck as I don't know much about splicing and such.

[Anonymous No.3165751]

>>3165733
Why bother gene splicing? Just paste bat wings onto human arms. You'd need from more than one bat, of course, because humans are bigger.

[dexcat No.3165768]

>>3165751
*facepalm* please just die.

[Anonymous No.3165774]

>>3165733

You make it sound so easy. It's not.

[Anonymous No.3165789]

>>3165733
It's theoretically possible to slap some wing-growing DNA into the human genome. 99 out of 100, it'd probably just cause some horrible mutation requiring termination of the fetus or some-such, but whatever. The real problem is the fact that we apes are just not built aerodynamic and light enough for functional wings to just work like that. You'd need a metric fuckton of muscle to power those things, and you'd need it to be light enough to carry. Plus you'd need a hugely ramped up metabolism which would considerably shorten lifespan. It's probably possible with some kind of meta-material and/or lower gravity, though.

[Anonymous No.3165798]

>this is what happens when an artfag attempts science

[Anonymous No.3165802]

Giving humans functional wings is possible. Using those wings to take flight is not. We aren't built for it. Building us for it would, if possible, be extremely impractical. On top of all this, there's really no reason to do it. Improve personal flying machines instead.

[Anonymous No.3165810]

>makes sure to put gender in post

[Anonymous No.3165814]

>>3165733
Make the bone structures, then the development of the said bone structure, then the metabolism of the structure, then the organs and muscles to support the skeleton, then the good kind of cell to form all the tissues, then functionning ADN, then make the whole human body be able to substain the wings, then make the neuronal system work on the wings...

This would be as hard as Frankenstein's creation.

[Anonymous No.3165816]

>>3165627

Just make an epic art project about your madcap, intriguing, and naive idea (which stem from a horrible misunderstanding of the role of genes). What you could do is do fake anatomical models of human-bat splicing with anatomical cross sections and such. Look up some weird, occult anatomy for ideas and then you can stay in art school and keep your cred.

/thread

[Anonymous No.3165819]

hey guys i'm a girl

[Anonymous No.3165818]

>>3165798
Congratulations! You understood the troll!

[dexcat No.3165832]

>>3165774
I make it sound easy firstly because i've given the barest of explanations due to writing this on my phone and secondly because I'm an art student. >>3165789
all these things i've taken into consideration, except the gravity thing, and i realise we'd probably need the gene that gives birds their light bones as well. This mutation would best fit naturally petit people and yes there would be a need for steroids at least at first and to make the wings large enough but i think its possible it could work. People would need better calcium supplements too.

[Anonymous No.3165848]

I remember having to do the maths in physics class for something like this, I think the area needed for wings were something like 144m^2, unfeasably huge.

[Anonymous No.3165849]

>>3165832
>all these things i've taken into consideration, except the gravity thing, and i realise we'd probably need the gene that gives birds their light bones as well. This mutation would best fit naturally petit people and yes there would be a need for steroids at least at first and to make the wings large enough but i think its possible it could work. People would need better calcium supplements too.
decent troll. you can stop now.

[Anonymous No.3165857]

Just declare a bird as a human and boom, problem solved.

[Anonymous No.3165865]

It's a silly idea.
The wings would each need to be about 3 metres long and two metres wide.
I suspect you're a closet furry

[dexcat No.3165881]

For fuck's sake I AM NOT TROLLING! I'm being serious, so sorry if i'm not being scientific enough for you people to take me seriously but i am being serious. >>3165857
keep trolling until a real scientist gets here. *rolls eyes*

[Anonymous No.3165892]

>>3165832

If you dedicate your entire life to the study of genetic maybe you could make on of the millions of discoveries that will be necessary to engineer a complex organism without killing it before it becomes a fetus.

[Anonymous No.3165901]

what if i just cum in a chicken?

[Anonymous No.3165908]

>>3165881

You do not understand how genes work.

[Anonymous No.3165903]

>>3165881

keep postin' until a real artist gets here

[Anonymous No.3165909]

>>3165901
Thanksgiving dinner will get a lot more interesting.

[Anonymous No.3165918]

>>3165832
Steroids? Are you talking about anabolic steroids? Why would you need a compound that mimics testoserone? To increase muscle mass? That would eliminate the whole petit thing as muscle = heavier person = even higher metabolic rate = infeasible.

I'll take a bite, no, don't drop out. Honestly, you'd need to go into a real 4 year institution and then study a PhD in Biology (Specifically, Genetics).

However, after Bio 101 and Chem 101, you'll realize this will be pointless and impossible. We're not meant for flight and messing with our genetic code to make it happen would bascially make us a new species. Realize also just how much energy only our brain uses, and from there you have to start cutting out our energy expenditures to the point that we'll be giant bat-like creatures.

I wish we could fly, but just like magic it is simply fantasy. Also what could a drop out art student do for this to happen? You don't even know basi genetics.

[Anonymous No.3165931]

>>3165881
first understand the fundamental concept of genes, then make a theory, and then there will be something to discuss.

[Anonymous No.3165940]

Fuck the genes, this would work much easier if we'd make someone a cyborg.

[Anonymous No.3165944]

or we could just make working jetpacks

[Anonymous No.3165948]

Gene expression is unbelievably complex, and everything ties into everything else. You cannot simply splice in genes for a trait and obtain the results you expect. What'll happen instead is that the genes will be expressed in a manner completely unlike the development of wings and will probably be terminal for the fetus.

You'd have to engineer an entirely new organism to support wings and everything necessary to make them functional, in which case even if you started from human stock the end result would be less human than an ape is.

>>3165944

We actually have those. They're just very expensive and have impractical endurance/fuel consumption.

[Anonymous No.3165957]

each wing would have to lift over 100 pounds of force every waking moment during flight. In order to achieve this, you would have to severely alter blood flow create new veins, ect.

tl;dr, possible, but you lack the knowledge and expertise to do it(and it would be difficult for someone with said skills anyways)

[dexcat No.3165962]

>>3165865
Wrong, not a closet. But not fully furry, i only have cat ears, a tail and matching skirt, hat with ears and arm warmers and fluffies, not a full body suit. This is me with my cat hat. And that should not affect how my theory is viewed.

[Anonymous No.3165966]

>>3165962

[Anonymous No.3165970]

>>3165962

Oh, well this explains your stupidity.

[Anonymous No.3165982]

Point is, stick with art.

[dexcat No.3166020]

>>3165918
What would be so terrible about a new species? Evolution has taken us this far, why not take the next step and see where we can go from here? And the petit thing is to counter act the steroids, a body builder wouldn't fly but a short super model might be able to offset the added weight of the needed muscles.

[Anonymous No.3166035]

Learn about birds.

Also, get off /sci/.

[Anonymous No.3166043]

>>3166020
Then this is an entirely other discussion. Creating a humanoid species that can fly maybe possible, but that is still years away. We sadly can't create a cell (yet).

Also, politicians and general public are retarded and don't want us "playing god". If God were real and gave us the ability to do something why can't we?

Sorry for rant, anyways that changes your previous argument of making humans fly, which is impossible. Creating a large flying species is very possible.

[Anonymous No.3166061]

Long before we can perform such life engineering feats, technological enhancement will render it rather pointless.

[dexcat No.3166074]

>>3166035
My interest in birds extends only as far as aesthetic and wing-envy. And how about NO.

[Anonymous No.3166105]

>>3166074
Then, get, the fuck, out.

[Anonymous No.3166107]

The Facts:

The cold hard facts are that humans are not built to fly. Compared to birds we have incredibly dense muscle and bone tissue. Like, our bodies have over double the density of a birds. That means that the size ratio between body and wingspan would have to be AT LEAST double that of a birds. That means a 180cm tall human would need a wingspan of around 16 METERS. Also, since the wings are composed of the same tissue of the human body, this would mean the wings themselves would have incredible weight (probably around 400kg), this weight would then mean the wingspan would need to be even larger. Not to mention that the human brain uses around 20% of our bodies energy intake, so if we jammed huge wings on our bodies our brain power would suffer (to the point we'd be no smarter than a dog).

You know whats an easier option: Buying a fucking light plane.

Although, I was thinking of an artificial wing system that uses a huge difference in potential to create highly ionized envelope around the wings, dramatically decreasing drag, and if designed correctly, increasing lift through the Hall Effect. However the power source for such a system would be unfeasibly massive.

>>3165962
Oh, well.... HAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.3166178]

do you guys remember that episode of rurouni kenshin where they had to fight that really bone skinny guy who had wings and threw dynamite?

On topic, totally wouldn't work in the way you are describing. We have EXTREME difficulty building any kind of ornothopter, let alone altering the genome of a species we do not completely understand to facilitate it.

You best bet would probably lie with some transhumanist 'robot body" pursuit that can then be adapted to human brain/consciousness in bird body.

[Anonymous No.3166188]

Quick somebody screen cap it! We need to remind every other hippie of their world will look like when they come into power!

[dexcat No.3166208]

Of course the wing span would be massive, especially for an average human. I'm only about 5ft tall and i know even my theoretical wings would be huge, I may be an art student but i'm not so stupid as to think we'd be able to have wings at the same size ratio as birds. But there are things that can help minimise the excess of weight added by the wings like altering our bones and possibly muscles. I have no illusions of this being easy, if it were we'd have wings already. I just think its worth the effort and is possible.

[Anonymous No.3166226]

op should go and pursue his dreams. who knows, we might all live long enough to reap the fruits of his labour

[Anonymous No.3166236]

>>3166208

If you have a fool proof method of acheiving this, then yes, it is worth it. But the hurdles to overcome are massive. How are you imagining altering our muscle and bone tissue?

Also, you can't fiddle with the genes of a living person. all these alterations would have to be done on developing zygotes. Plus you'd have to deal with the hundreds of horrific still-born mutants, and the few that almost lived, but had to be put out of their unending agony... Yeah, I prefer technological enhancements to humans, less mess, more efficiency.

[Anonymous No.3166245]

>>3166208
you are aware that although it is possible, that is only for humans who havn't been born yet, right?
a.k.a. give up your dream of having wings.

[dexcat No.3166242]

>>3166226
Dude I'm a chick. I even have a pic of myself in this thread. *facepalm* that said, thank you for your support.

[Anonymous No.3166266]

>>3165751
>>3165857
is sad when this are the best ideas in the thread

[dexcat No.3166280]

>>3166236
Yeah I have a fool proof method, its called trial and error. And I have no qualms with failed fetus's, to me its only a little more morally abhorrent than stemcell research.>>3166245
Should I succeed even at that I will be happy. And from there I might be able to find a way to give myself wings anyway.

[Anonymous No.3166284]

To actually lift a human body the wings would need to be massive, and the subject would need ridiculously powerful muscles to use them. And when I say 'massive' and 'ridiculous', I mean 'outside the realm of physical possibility'

[Anonymous No.3166285]

Is Batman a furry?

[Anonymous No.3166326]

>>3166266
Hey, I briefly talked about an artificial wingspan that utilizes the Hall Effect. Although, it is a stupid idea, since the power requirements are off the charts.

>>3166280

You sound pretty determined, and seem to have an interest in the field. Why don't you pick up a degree in genetics? You never know, you could end up working in a top laboratory, witnessing fantastic breakthroughs and furthering humanity. In the long run it might be more rewarding than your arts career.

[dexcat No.3166405]

>>3166326
genetics, thank you! And i'm thinking I'll cut down my arts to part time and see if i can take some night classes.

[Anonymous No.3166429]

OP, go for ultralight aircraft instead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultralight_trike

Nature can go hang, if you want to fly like a bird, use technology.

Using human muscles to power wings won't work due to the square-cube law; the scaling of our mass and lift are not equal. Mass wins.

Although, it is possible to use human muscles to power a flying machine... You just need to be incredibly fit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossamer_Albatross

[Anonymous No.3166436]

>>3165627

fuck off bro

[Anonymous No.3166446]

lrn2aerodynamics

[Anonymous No.3166627]

Wow OP,
you are actually retarded.

Your life is essentially worthless because you're a cumdumpster art student who is far too fat to even make it as a whore, so you decide to attempt to turn the scientific world into another one of your art projects.

Well, here's news for you.
>It won't work
>We have no need for it to work
>We have no reason to make it work
>Even if it did work, you're too fat for it to work on you.

[Anonymous No.3166650]

>Hey resident femfag art student here

55 posts and 9 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

[Anonymous No.3166710]

>>3166627
>>3166627
>>3166627

/thread

[dexcat No.3167179]

>>3166627
I wasn't going to dignify this with a response, but a bump is a bump I suppose. I am not fat thank you very much, in the art world big boobs don't mean an equally big stomach and arse. And sweetheart just because you would never be able to afford me is no reason to slander the sex industry with such disrespect as 'cumdumpster'. One of the main reasons Australia has less sex crimes and rape is because of the service those women provide, compared to America where it is illegal except in vagas. And what's more worthless, taking an interest and starting a think-tank online, or showing how insecure and pathetic you are by attempting to insult the OP and derail the thread?

[Anonymous No.3167199]

>>3167179

[Anonymous No.3167218]

>>3167179
>a woman tries to defend herself on 4chan

[Anonymous No.3167230]

WHAT IS THAT SOUND? DO I HEAR HORDES OF /SCI/ NECKBEARDS STAMPEDING TO WHITEKNIGHT AND PROTECT THE RETARDED IDEA OF THIS FINE MAIDEN?

[dexcat No.3167232]

>>3167199
that actually made me laugh as I have purple hair too, well a purple fringe, and most of my dreads are purple. Good work

[Anonymous No.3167245]

>>3167179
holy shit OP could you be more butthurt?

You're kind of attractive, look like you have a nice set of tits on you, but you really don't seem to understand how flight works in nature humans are just too heavy for wings like a bird to work and their bodies aren't built for it like birds (hollow bones).

[Anonymous No.3167258]

Many problems with the plan, if it's not a troll.
-Humans far too large for flight, have no adaptions implemented for it (dense bones, shitty aerodynamics)
-Following the first, wings would have to be absolutely massive. Energy needs would be debilitating
-Probably the most important: you can't just 'splice in' (especially considering this isn't the way we deliver genes into higher life anyway) the genes for wings, necessary muscles etc. is because it's retardedly complicated. Development of the foetus and such has so many regulators and pathways to be messed as to be impossible to simply say "now add wings lol".

As said, hope not a troll and simply too idealistic. But the whole art student/female etc makes it likely that you are. Hope this post was informative for others

[Anonymous No.3167259]

oh, this must be one of those 'trollings' i keep hearing so much about

[dexcat No.3167330]

yes I'm overly idealistic and a tad delusional, comes with borderline personality disorder, but I AM NOT A TROLL! My idea may be bordering between fantasy and mad science but I am putting it forward seriously and appreciate the serious responses I have received greatly.

[Anonymous No.3167333]

>>3167330
post your tits, also your contact info

[Anonymous No.3167346]

>>3167330
self-diagnosed with mental disorder

Now we know

[dexcat No.3167351]

>>3167333
How about no? Besides i'm in Australia, if you're not then its completely irrelevant. You want to see tits? Go to the request board.

[Anonymous No.3167361]

Quetzalcoatlus was about the same body size as a human, but had to have wings that would make a human's life preeeetty miserable. Also, could probably not fly from flat ground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Quetzscale1.png

Why not just splice in a hox gene and have four arms. I'd rather be Machamp than a faggot with no hands. who could only fly by jumping off a cliff.

[JamesBond !!JAU/DZkp95n No.3167368]

>>3167351
You don't understand. He want's to see YOUR tits. Not just any random ones.

[dexcat No.3167378]

>>3167346
for you information I spent 2 weeks in a mental institute before I was diagnosed. To assume makes an ass out of u and me, so don't next time you fuck tard

[Anonymous No.3167382]

>>3167361

Also, womb would be all "hey, fuck you" and your fetus would abort. That is why you can't cross humans with chimps. We have gene scanning skillz that would stop this crap from happening.

I have a side interest in art. I probably embarass myself in front of artists as much as you have done in front of scientists in this thread, OP, but for some reason embarrassing onesself in the eyes of artists seems like less of a bad thing.

[dexcat No.3167401]

>>3167368
yeah well a lot of people do, too bad so sad. Not my problem.

[Anonymous No.3167415]

>>3167401
well it's not our problem that you have a retarded idea about human flight destined to fail. But have fun either being a starving artist of completely failing at this.

[dexcat No.3167429]

>>3167382
I'm not embarrassed, I know my strong points, and though I'm fascinated by them maths and science are not in my artillery. I stated that I'm an art student so people would understand that I don't and that's why I'm asking. There's nothing embarrassing about knowing ones weaknesses and trying to strengthen them. The art community can be just as mean and self- righteous, but for the most part we're fairly open minded about stuff.

[Anonymous No.3167446]

okay OP, you've annoyed me enough, it's time for you to go now

http://vampirefreaks.com/DeXter-Louise
http://www.facebook.com/DeXterLouiSe
http://dexamphetamine13.deviantart.com/

[Anonymous No.3167458]

>>3167446
oh noes! you found her accounts on several publicly available websites! Surely you will ruin her life!

[m1ckey !dkJI/P7Y32 No.3167485]

>>3167446
Maybe the OP should be working on her poetry before asking such inane questions. That was horrible.

[dexcat No.3167487]

>>3167446
how did you do that? I'm teaching myself how to code and internet security, still a complete n00b though. Good work : ) and I'll stop replying to this thread but I like sci, I learn stuff sometimes, there are interesting threads and get some of the geek humor so I'm not leaving sci.

[m1ckey !dkJI/P7Y32 No.3167502]

>>3167487
Seriously, go away. You're making liberal arts students seem retarded.

[Anonymous No.3167504]

We are far too heavy.

Our bones are thick. Our muscles are heavy. Our fat also adds weight.

Birds weigh just about nothing. It's why they can achieve lift without much space or speed.

Humans would never be able to fly with wings, like an Ostrich.

[Anonymous No.3167508]

>>3167446
>vampirefreaks

[Anonymous No.3167528]

>>3167487
you know you sound a lot like EK

[Anonymous No.3167563]

ITT /sci/ get's trolled by some guy with a vendetta against whoever this girl actually is.

[Anonymous No.3169190]

>>3167563
>implying