/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3163228]

What drives someone to profit from the misery of others?

[Anonymous No.3163234]

They either don't believe or don't care that their actions cause misery.

It's usually much more of the former. The guys at Enron generally deluded themselves into believing they were doing a good job.

[Atwill !kelPcGZQlE No.3163238]

Addiction.

[Anonymous No.3163239]

The profit itself.

[Anonymous No.3163241]

I wish I lived in one of those countries where they put up pictures of the Beloved Leader everywhere.

[Anonymous No.3163243]

>>3163241
For what reason?

[Anonymous No.3163245]

The people who are cruel are so because they think they're not being so. If you know your being cruel and don't care about it, you haven't understood what 'profit' means.

[Anonymous No.3163247]

>>3163243
To escape the pain of thinking, specifically understanding sarcasm.

[Liberty !!nQrIRh+JHbs No.3163248]

>>3163228

Profiting at the misery of others is only capable with the help of the state.

[Anonymous No.3163252]

>>3163245
I generally agree, but would add that there are some truly sociopathic people in positions of power on occasion.

Actually, now that I think about it - did guys like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao... did they really think they were doing a good thing for their country? For their people? At first, maybe, but towards the end I just don't see it. Hitler ordered Germans to die defending Berlin even when it was hopeless and he committed suicide. Stalin slaughtered millions of his own people, as did Pol Pot. Mao was so egotistical that it took the starvation of millions for his Great Leap Forward to be acknowledge as a failure and be brought to and end.

[Anonymous No.3163254]

>>3163228
Profit.

[Anonymous No.3163256]

>>3163247
If you wish to truly escape the pain of thought, your only real option is brain damage. Or death.

You can't will yourself into pure ignorance. Well, Orson Welles might have disagreed.

[Anonymous No.3163257]

>>3163245
>If you know your being cruel and don't care about it, you haven't understood what 'profit' means.
What? Why?

[Anonymous No.3163259]

>>3163256
I'll wait to hear back from Welles before I decide.

[Anonymous No.3163265]

>>3163252
That's just pride. You're in too deep. need to save face

[Anonymous No.3163269]

>>3163256
>Orson Welles
I think you mean George Orwell.

[Anonymous No.3163277]

>>3163269
I think that's obvious.

[Anonymous No.3163287]

>>3163277
I think he meant H.G. Wells.

[Anonymous No.3163292]

>imploring you don't profit off the misery of others and simply don't use self deception to not realize it.

let me tell you the truth OP. We are all liars, we are all racists, and we are all selfish. There is not escaping this any attempt to alleviate it just creates a different form of selfishness, racism, and lying.

[Anonymous No.3163293]

>>3163269
d'oh. Brain fart.

[Anonymous No.3163294]

>>3163287
LOL
Anyway, I was definitely referring to George Orwell, author of 1984, which has intentional self-deception (doublethink) as a major theme.

[Hopeless Necromantic No.3163295]

Profit.

[Anonymous No.3163298]

>>3163252
Yes they did they all believed that the death of those people would create a better world for others, the same as any legislation. It is all misguided.

[Anonymous No.3163302]

>>3163257
<-----

[JamesBond !!JAU/DZkp95n No.3163307]

sadism != Profit niggers.

[Anonymous No.3163309]

>>3163292
>let me tell you the truth OP. We are all liars, we are all racists, and we are all selfish. There is not escaping this any attempt to alleviate it just creates a different form of selfishness, racism, and lying.
Boy, have YOU swallowed some bullshit.

There is a sliding scale of how much people value the wellbeing of others versus their own. You might complain "but people who do things for others only do it for personal mental benefits", but you're missing the point here.

Selfishness is heavily and *consciously* valuing self over others. There are people who genuinely do think about and desire the well-being of others. Calling that "another form of selfishness" is simply destroying the meaning of the word.

People who think of and consciously care for only their own well-being are selfish. And sure, maybe no one is a perfect altruist, but that is also irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.3163318]

Social Darwinism

It is a natural reaction with cunts and a harsh environment.

In finland say it is rare, but in the biggest cunt'ry in the world the USA it is endemic and full of cunts in government business and all around.

It is a symptom of inequality

[Anonymous No.3163328]

>>3163302
That's contrived bullshit, though. There are situations where not engaging in cruelty would not lead to greater profit at all, like when holding someone hostage for ransom, or just directly torturing someone for information, or some other gain.

Being cruel on purpose without giving a shit is certainly not a sign that one doesn't understand the meaning of profit.

[Anonymous No.3163330]

>>3163292
Projecting own delusion.

Read the selfish gene, nice guys finish first.

Just because you have a shit life does not mean you have to or anyone else for that matter.

It is psychological or epigenetic, not genetic.

[Anonymous No.3163332]

I think we should blow things out of proportion and look crazy to discredit whoever gorup it is we're claiming to be in this anonymous image board forum.

[Anonymous No.3163336]

>>3163330
If you read the selfish gene then you would know that people cooperate out of selfishness because they benefit from it more than they would otherwise, just like capitalism.

[Anonymous No.3163337]

>>3163330
If nice guys finish first then why to psychopaths do so well in corporations?

[Anonymous No.3163339]

It is because Neoliberalism disempowers and alienates humans from each other. Roody-poo's listened to too much Friedman or Keynes, and started viewing everyone as rational wealth maximizers not humans.

We need close societal social bonds to not be cunts. Neoliberalism replaced the community with the shopping mall. The trade union with the corporate rat race.

[Anonymous No.3163342]

They simply don't care?

There usually isn't much more to it than that. Our culture likes to pretend that evil people are inherently flawed some way but the reality is they are often intelligent, know exactly what they are doing and they often live long happy lives.

[Anonymous No.3163345]

>>3163309
You care for others because it benefits yourself selfishly.

[Anonymous No.3163344]

>>3163228
>What drives someone to profit from the misery of others?
>profit

Tough one fuckface.

[Anonymous No.3163346]

>>3163328
Not that guy, but I think I might see what underlies this discussion. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If we believe that the personal maximum wellbeing corresponds to the global wellbeing, then any shortsighted attempts to make "profit" by harming others is suboptimal.

The emergence of the middle class has transformed the modern world. When people are more equal in power and free to trade, wealth explodes. One man ruling a million destitute peasants was once called a king. But now we see the folly - educated, empowered, and property-owning people produce wealth above and beyond what is given to them. A subsistence farming can contribute nothing to the society. Basically a nonlinear feedback.

So what should we do, if we want to truly profit as much as possible? Give other people power, knowledge and wealth equal to your own. Not just handing out money - I mean helping everyone enter the middle class, or better. Strive for the global optimum.

However, here's the catch: You only live about 80 years, and short-term optimization may well indeed be a selfish one (if you only care about material wealth).

[Anonymous No.3163347]

>>3163339
I usually don't eat fast food but I went to starbucks the other day and enjoyed their coffee.

Problem?

[Anonymous No.3163348]

>>3163337
With reproduction, not some memetic delusion. A nice guy will have more kids on average than a CEO. CEO's just have a dopamine/serontonin addiction through power. Happiness does not increase beyond 100k, above that it is memetic addiction to perceived niggery.

[Anonymous No.3163349]

>>3163342
>happy lives

Really believe that?

[Anonymous No.3163351]

>>3163228
Religion

\thread

[Anonymous No.3163352]

>>3163346
Yeah, because of the political neoliberalism.

[Anonymous No.3163353]

>>3163345
Boy, did YOU fail to read my post. There is no such thing as unconscious selfishness. It's an abuse of the term "selfishness" that results in the term being meaningless.

[Anonymous No.3163361]

>>3163348
>memetic addiction to perceived African Americany
Are those technical terms?

[Anonymous No.3163359]

>>3163345
>>3163336
ITT: People who don't know what selfishness is.

[Anonymous No.3163357]

im a greedy asshole who can i hurt?

[Anonymous No.3163362]

>>3163357
Yourself
Read the selfish gene roody poo

[Anonymous No.3163364]

>>3163362
The Rock aint comin back no matter how good the p.r.
He should have stuck to comedy.

[Anonymous No.3163365]

>>3163339
Right because unions aren't completely selfish and neither are communities Of course people like you define wealth as dollars but you forget what those dollars and those are happiness maximizing products.

[Anonymous No.3163369]

>>3163348
>Happiness does not increase beyond 100k
This is truth.
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2016291,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happiness_economics

[Anonymous No.3163373]

>>3163359
What does it matter if its conscious or not, the effects are the same.

[Anonymous No.3163375]

>>3163365
Yeah roy, 95% co operating, not 5% conspirin yo

Or Co operatives/ mutuals which are intrinsically unionized. Democracy in the private sector.

[Anonymous No.3163376]

>>3163346
>If we believe that the personal maximum wellbeing corresponds to the global wellbeing, then any shortsighted attempts to make "profit" by harming others is suboptimal.
This may very well be the basis of that other guy's argument, but my point remains. Being deliberately cruel for the sole sake of profiteering doesn't mean one doesn't "get" profit. It may simply mean that one, as you've alluded to, prefers the surefire short-term gains over the vague, potential long-term ones.

I agree with your suggestion for improvement, by the way.

[Anonymous No.3163379]

Hey guys lets steal the money rich people have and give it to ourselves, we are totally not selfish.

[Anonymous No.3163383]

>>3163361
>On /sci/
>Does not know memes
>mfw

[Anonymous No.3163384]

>>3163373
No. No they are fucking NOT.

This philosophy of abusing the term by saying "everyone is selfish" has a real effect on behavior, if believed. If you have deceived yourself into ignoring the difference between someone who consciously cares about other people and the person who consciously doesn't give a rats ass whether anyone else lives or dies, you have a powerful tool for rationalizing sociopathic behavior.

[Anonymous No.3163387]

>>3163375
Tyranny of democracy, consensus ate the expense of the minority. Its just more selfishness.

[Anonymous No.3163389]

>>3163379
Reducing inequality by whatsoever means would reduce social darwinism hellalot.

Happiness does not increase over 75k, m

mfw

[Anonymous No.3163392]

>>3163387
u so crazy

[Anonymous No.3163394]

>>3163384
You are wrong it is my best interest to cooperate with others this is selfishness, that's why people get jobs and that's why people pay their employees or why you exchange money for things.

[Anonymous No.3163397]

>>3163349
Most people responsible for inflicting suffering on others are not considered criminals, for instance ex-dictator Suharto, even after falling from grace he lived in opulent splendor and succesfully sued time magazine for 100 million dollars. Maybe he was unhappy deep down or something but his material situation in his last years were certainly better than other elderly people's last years in Indonesia.

[Anonymous No.3163400]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwmcjrh1Zno

[Anonymous No.3163402]

>>3163392
Remember the south, slavery and jim corw was enforced through democracy.

[Anonymous No.3163403]

Alk the ruich ashould in a firew becasuse ineqwality and Farwin FTW 1000k meme gene

[Anonymous No.3163405]

>>3163394
I agree that a selfish person (consciously values only himself) who believes that the personal optimum is the global optimum will have the same behavior as the fairly unselfish person. Which is obvious, because we just assumed that the personal and global optimums are the same.

But do you agree with this?
> If you have deceived yourself into ignoring the difference between someone who consciously cares about other people and the person who consciously doesn't give a rats ass whether anyone else lives or dies, you have a powerful tool for rationalizing sociopathic behavior.
There IS a difference between these two hypothetical people. Calling them both "selfish" just makes the term "selfish" meaningless.

[Anonymous No.3163408]

top 0.25% own 40% of wealth.
Happiness peaks and does not increase over 75k

12trn dollar economy.

12trn / 300000000 = 40k

So about 30-60% can be max happiness.

Only 5% are

mfw

/thread

[Anonymous No.3163411]

LOL LEFTIES ARE SO EZ TO TROLL
EPIC WIN XDXDXD!!!!1!!111

[Anonymous No.3163414]

>>3163408
>hurdurr zero sum game
Protip: The global GDP was much smaller, once upon a time. It has increased much faster than population. Huh, how about that. Maybe, just maybe, there's something going on here.

If you distribute wealth more equally, there will be a large surge in GDP once the transition is settled. Dirt farmers don't contribute to GDP.

[Anonymous No.3163413]

>>3163389
You don't understand what wealth is. Wealth isn't money, money is worthless without things to buy on the shelves. Tell me about all these people dying in America because of our evil socially darwinistic capitalist system.

[Anonymous No.3163417]

>>3163405
no both are selfish, they just go about it a different way. In the end we will see who benefits most.

[Anonymous No.3163420]

Protip: anyone who uses the term "zero sum game" was until recently talking about Atlas Shrugged on /lit/.

[Anonymous No.3163421]

>>3163414
>>3163414
Lets just print money until everyone has 75K I'm sure it will work out.

[Anonymous No.3163422]

>>3163417
Then give me two terms for these different ways. You're raping the English language by using the same word for both.

I've made the distinction by saying "consciously selfish" and "consciously unselfish". Saying "they're all unconsciously selfish" is not even a point of contention, and is not worth mentioning.

[Anonymous No.3163424]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SePMhAf9nSc

Thread has now reached trolling level

[Anonymous No.3163428]

>>3163421
Did you even read my post? I'm not talking about money supply.
>Dirt farmers don't contribute to GDP.

[Anonymous No.3163430]

profit drives them, duh

[Anonymous No.3163434]

>>3163414
y u so rational wealth maximizer

Humanism ftw

[Anonymous No.3163435]

>>3163422
(cont)
And implying "we're all consciously selfish" is the point I'm vigorously rejecting.

[Anonymous No.3163431]

>>3163420
>they think there a finite number of tvs,corn, and tables

[Anonymous No.3163448]

>>3163422
You can't do anything without being selfish, even suicide is a conscious decision to remove yourself from pain selfishly, the way in which you rationalize it is just a form of selfish self deceit. The only seemingly unselfish thing you can do is miscalculate your own selfish actions and being exploited in the process, but this is still selfishness.

[Anonymous No.3163450]

>>3163431
Oh you're so frustrating.

[Anonymous No.3163451]

A good mix of greed, no conscience, a feeling of superiority over the "sheep" and hate for other people.

I know what I'm talking about. Economics major here.

[Anonymous No.3163452]

>>3163424
Version without the music - it's nice but too loud to understand him in parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvjoWOwnn4

But DAMN is this a moving speech.

[Anonymous No.3163458]

reported for stupidity

[Anonymous No.3163459]

>>3163408

>Happiness peaks and does not increase over 75k

Yeah ok.

[Anonymous No.3163469]

>>3163459
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2016291,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happiness_economics

Yeah roy, source ITT

Hard to know with all of this neoliberalism around

[Anonymous No.3163471]

>>3163448
You're really not getting this conscious/unconscious distinction.

Have you never done something for someone else, just for the joy of sharing their joy? THAT is what is meant by unselfishness. You say "oh but you're doing it for the good feelings". Fuck that, don't you understand what I'm saying? That point is true but IRRELEVANT! Wanting happiness is not what separates the selfish from the unselfish! Everyone wants happiness! The difference is WHERE you seek it!

And if you say that having joy in the joy of others is the same "selfishness" as having joy in the food you stole from starving person, then your meaning for "selfish" truly is empty.