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/sci/ - Science & Math

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3162816 No.3162816 [Reply] [Original]

Why does the media usually portray the ''smart'' people as ''introverts''(concept is not well defined and scientific but lets just roll with it, we all know what it means). Honestly, all the math geniuses and intellectuals I met were fun loving and outgoing and sociable, never have I met a ''mathematically skilled'' stuck up virgin nerd piece of shit. This one guy I know who basically scored a 90%+ on every math test he ever took, was announcing loudly yesterday on a bus how he is gonna have a threesome that night. Why don't the TV ''nerds'' do that ?

I know I will prob. answer the question with this but I assume the media tries to cater to spoiled people who are kept indoors by shitty parents. I have no other explanation lol.

>> No.3162838

Selection bias.Everyone notices the loud fucker.

>> No.3162834

>>3162816
Introverted people are most likely less intelligent. their shyness is brought on by a lack of self confidence, they lack confidence because they're less intelligent. You know it's true.

>> No.3162839

>>3162834
Not true. Lack of confidence could be brought on by any number of reasons and in spite of high intellect or capability.

>> No.3162840

This just in: many stereotypes are unfounded. More at 11.

>> No.3162853

>>3162844
Can we quit with IQ? We already know it's a broken system. Also, there are three widely used IQ scales that differ from each other by about 15 points. It doesn't mean shit.

>> No.3162854

>>3162844
[citation needed]

>> No.3162855

>This one guy I know who basically scored a 90%+ on every math test he ever took...

Yeah, that's high school and not that impressive. But it is true that very sociable and outgoing people can be very much intellectual, particularly in the way of math skills. Just look at Richard Feynman.

I'm doing a very math-heavy program, and most of the people in the higher level math classes seem just a tad bit autistic. The thing is that outgoing geniuses like Feynman are rare mostly because outgoing people get wrapped up in socializing more than studying. It's very arrogant and a myth that outgoing people cannot be brilliant--that's just a little myth the aspies use to make themselves feel better.

>> No.3162847

>>3162834
I like your style, but I would have left off the "You know it's true."

>> No.3162858

>>3162855
>It's very arrogant and a myth that outgoing people cannot be brilliant--
Don't you worry your pretty little head. There is a well-documented bias to assume that good-looking and/or socially confident people are more intelligent. Likewise, an assumption that unattractive people are unintelligent.

>> No.3162860

>Why does the media usually portray the ''smart'' people as ''introverts''

Because most intelligent people are introverted, this is backed up with statistics.

INTP and INTJ personalities have by far the highest IQ's.

There is obviously a lot of exceptions, but most people with IQ's 125 or 130+ (on deviation 15) are going to be introverted.

Was fixing my posts.

>>3162853

It isn't a "broken metric", academic professionals take it seriously with good reason. Look up the data yourself.>>3162854

>>3162854

Looking for sources now.

>> No.3162865

>>3162860
He didn't even bring up IQ, asshat. It has nothing to do with personality. I don't know why you seem so fixated.

>> No.3162871

>>3162855
>s very arrogant and a myth that outgoing people cannot be brilliant--that's just a little myth the aspies use to make themselves feel better.
Yeah prob. this, intellectual stimulation is all the stuff aspies can live for, while a NORMAL person has a lot of stuff to chose from.

>>3162860
Go back to your aspie cave with your shitty pseudo science, my empirical observations contrast that.

>> No.3162883

>>3162860
>>3162860

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.org.mensa/2007-01/msg00049.html

>* Moreover, if you encounter an INTJ (Introverted, iNtuitive,
Thinking, Judging), there is a 37% probability that his IQ places him
in the top 2 percent of the population. The probability is 20% for an
INTP, 15% for an INFJ, and 8% for an INFP. These four types account for
66% of the high-IQ population but only 6% of the total population.

http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-021508-211201/unrestricted/IQP_JMW.pdf

This is a nice academic .pdf file that goes into good detail.

>> No.3162886

>>3162860
IQ is not that damned accurate. Also, I don't think it can be argued that there are fewer than three popular IQ scales that differ largely from each other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ#Modern_tests

To say that I have a 130 IQ is not necessarily more impressive than you claiming that you have a 118 IQ. We could be using different scales, and there is no generally accepted go-to scale for general use. So at the very least specify your scale, or just go ahead and shut the fuck up.

>> No.3162891

>>3162860
>most intelligent people are introverted

You're not realizing the fact (obvious to those with common sense) that introverted people are more likely to study, more likely to be introspective, and therefore develop thought patterns _through practice_ that can increase their performance on psychometric testing.

Btw, this is a science board.

Psychology belongs in >>>x

>> No.3162892

>>3162883
>>3162860
>Jung
>relevant
0/10
stop fucking trying you dirty aspie. I laugh at you being mentally crippled in real life and thus having to argue about your shit via the internet.

>> No.3162898

I am an extrovert. My IQ has been measured to be 147. I do improv and I participate in plays and musicals. I am a mathematics major. I don't think that the media always shows intelligent people to be either way, nor do I believe that people all around agree that intelligent people are introverted. I don't go around broadcasting that I am intelligent, however, people tend to pick it up quickly. Stark from Iron man, although fictional, is a good rendition of an extroverted intellectual.

>> No.3162904

>>3162891
>You're not realizing the fact (obvious to those with common sense) that introverted people are more likely to study, more likely to be introspective, and therefore develop thought patterns _through practice_ that can increase their performance on psychometric testing.
I disagree, extroverts often study just as much, though not always.

YOU CAN NOT BE AN INTROVERT IN HIGH ACADEMIA, you need to be very sociable and aggressive with your ideas there.

>> No.3162905

>>3162886
>>3162886

>IQ is not that damned accurate.

Well, not always in personal assessment. Some tests will assess verbal and nonverbal ability with only two subtests respectively. These tests statistically correlate highly, but there is a good deal of outliers (like 5% or so will have a score that is maybe two thirds a deviation off or higher). When you get ti highly comprehensive tests like the WAIS or Binet, there is almost zero room for relevant inaccuracy because of how many subtests are used in assessment.

But all IQ tests are viable for statistical use, otherwise they wouldn't be IQ tests.

>> No.3162916

>MBTI
Seriously ? That is about as accurate as a horoscope.

>> No.3162917

>>3162892
>>3162892

Lol, you seem upset.

Personality tests may be inaccurate in some cases of personal assessment, but they're definitely valid for usage in statistics. You're just silly if you think they fail at depicting any sort of trend at all.

>> No.3162924 [DELETED] 

>>3162904
>YOU CAN NOT BE AN INTROVERT IN HIGH ACADEMIA

Confirmed for liberal arts/psychology major.

Seriously, you have never taken a real physics/chemistry or math class. More than half of my professors, while comfortable teaching, are not very personable or boisterous in office hours, to say the least.

>> No.3162929

>>3162917
They are silly in almost all cases....it is not even a real science, it is an outdated model which is not used anymore and is ignored/discredited.

Anyway I do not think being introverted is normal, It usually correlates with apathy/depression/rough childhood etc. If parents notice that their child is introverted I think that they should try and fix that.

>> No.3162934

>>3162924
>are not very personable or boisterous in office hours, to say the least.
....why should they be ? They are at work, they are tired etc. As an ''extrovert''(how I hate those labels), basically as a healthy and normal sociable being I can tell you that everyone has days when he is tired and can not be assed to be everywhere and needs time for himself.

>> No.3162940

People are confusing being socially retard with being introvert.

>> No.3162942

>>3162929
>>3162929

Well, introversion is not seclusion. It merely means that someone is not relatively sociable. Most introverted people have strong friend circles, attend social gatherings, etc. They just don't do it as often, they don't feel as strong of a drive to.

>> No.3162946

>>3162860

Test created by INTJ's and INTP's (because what other personality type would care, seriously), they score higher...

>wut

>> No.3162947

>>3162940
Introverted = Preferring to be alone

Social retard = Chris Chan and average /b/tard

Not saying that introversion is perfectly healthy, but there is a big difference.

>> No.3162951

>>3162942
>They just don't do it as often, they don't feel as strong of a drive to.
Which is not normal, in early human society there was nothing as scary as the thought of being alone.
>>3162940
Maybe so, intr/extr is not well defined and most likely pseudo science in the end.

>> No.3162959

Introverts are subhuman, I loved seeing them getting their shit fucked up in HS, nature at its finest.

>> No.3162973

>>3162951

This is how I get my head around introversion and extraversion. It all relies on "energy", so you know it's pseudo-sciencey. What is this energy? I'm not 100% sure; A few words to describe this energy are life force, oomph or charge.

An extravert gets their "energy" from their environment, the people around them and anything outside of the self. When an extravert is alone, this "energy" begins to fade, causing them to seek out stimulation by having their senses pummeled or to generally be around people.

An introvert is the opposite, they get their "energy" from within the self. When an introvert is around people or doing something stimulating, their "energy" begins to run empty. This causes them to seek solidarity to recharge their batteries, as you will.

>> No.3162981

>>3162973
And when an introvert runs out of juice he needs to go hang out and relax...this sounds fine and makes both types appear as normal beings. Cool.

>> No.3162983

>>3162973
PSEUDOSCIENCE YAY

>> No.3162986

>>3162973
This is how shit worked in the dark ages before the idea of actually testing your theories. This bullshit right here.

>> No.3162988

>>3162951
>>3162951

Perhaps the definition of introversion and extroversion used in personality tests if different from the one you hold to a relevant degree.

IQ is correlated with achievement tests (70%) and most professionals in areas of obviously high cognitive demand (professors, medical doctors, etc) tend to have high IQ's. Those with high academic achievement tend to have high IQ's. Statistically, populations you personally deem to be "smart" are going to have high IQ's. It is also statistically backed up with neurological data. Even if you hold that it's inaccurate for self assessment, it clearly illustrates a concrete trend.

There is also a reason for everything. There is a reason why people of high cognitive ability tend to score higher in areas of introversion on personality tests. This data isn't disputed, it's been replicated many times.

Whether or not you view it as positive or healthy, a rather high percentage of intelligent individuals tend to be introverted. There really is nothing else to say.

>> No.3162989

>>3162973
psychology is like fucking religion, holy shit.

>> No.3162993

>>3162973
Astonishing theory professor. How can we test whether it is correct?

>> No.3162994

>>3162989
>>3162986
>>3162983

Haha, I'd like to see you explain how introversion and extraversion work without having a bias between one or the other.

Or you could deny that the concepts even exist and believe that we're all a bit of everything.

>> No.3162997

You need some alone time to get serious thinking done.

Extroverts want to be around people all of the time, to never be alone with their thoughts. Introverts want to be alone for much of the day, to get away from people and back to their thoughts.

There are no serious intellectuals who are extroverts. The majority of people ARE extroverts, and prefer to spend most of their day in company.

However, being introverted does not mean being asocial or lacking social skills. Successful introverts are deeply social, and usually spend their alone-time pursuing social goals: they feel they must spend more time preparing for social interaction, to bring something worthwhile to the table or to have an advantage over others.

Introverts prefer to think before they speak. Extroverts prefer to think BY speaking.

>> No.3163003

>>3162994
I'd rather not pull theories out of my ass, thanks. Unless you have an answer for
>>3162993

>> No.3163005

>>3162997
>There are no serious intellectuals who are extroverts.
No True Scotsman.

Also Feynman.

>> No.3163009

>>3162816

There's a reason.

Not because all geniuses are introverted or autistic, but many appear to be that way because they will spend as much time as they can studying / getting better at their field / trying to accomplish things, which leaves little time / interest for socializing.

It's not that they can't do it, just they view getting things done as more important.

>> No.3163010
File: 36 KB, 366x334, hoorh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3163010

>>3162973
>energy
Thread has achieved full retard.

>> No.3163012

>>3162993

What I do is ask myself whether the person I am talking to is introverted or extraverted. Based on my assumption I act accordingly. More boisterous and daring with someone I believe to be extraverted. More timid, quiet and understanding around someone I believe to be introverted.

If I see negative reactions to my behaviour then I reassess my meaning for introversion and extraversion. It's nowhere grounded in the scientific method, but I don't give a shit, it works for me.

>> No.3163013

>>3163005
>>3163005

I bet you both of my nuts that neitehr would score extroverted on the MBTI.

You don't have to be extroverted to be a fucking womanizer, trust me.

>> No.3163015

>>3162997
lol what load of horseshit
>>3162988
bla bla didn't read, aspies gonna aspie
>>3162994
>Or you could deny that the concepts even exist and believe that we're all a bit of everything.
this, THIS. Intro./Extro. are bullshit made up concepts, human nature can not be organized in neat little blocks like the aspies want to do.

>> No.3163018

>psychology
>implying scientific method

>> No.3163025

>smart people you met were outgoing
this is probably because the smart introverts are busy being alone, and NOT talking to you.
>90% math, gloating about a 3some
this guy sounds like an idiot

>> No.3163026

>>3162983
nobody said it was science, chill out. and that doesnt mean its not valid; i think most people would agree with this statement, which was very well written

>> No.3163027

>>3163013
>horoscope for nerds

>> No.3163023

>>3163012
That... has nothing to do with supporting or falsifying the theory.

>> No.3163030

Hey anons, are you Type A or Type B personality?

And what's your sign?

>> No.3163031

>>3163005
Feynman wasn't an extrovert. I just said that being an introvert doesn't mean being asocial or lacking social skills, and that successful introverts are deeply social.

Feynman was friendly and charming, who made friends easily and was a womanizer, but he also definitely preferred to spend most of his time thinking his own thoughts.

>No True Scotsman.
>herp derp

>> No.3163034

Generalizing people like those personality tests do is a terrible idea..
People will act different in different situations.
Someone who is considered extrovert might act introvert in some situations same goes to introvert acting extrovert.

>> No.3163036

Reasons I see:

The higher the IQ, the less people who are your equal. Thus if you seek conversation at your own level, you are in trouble. But people who are mostly about seeking attention from others then just adapt to the average level of intelligence of the people around them and use their extra brainpower for art or witty conversation.

People who feel the need to understand their surroundings however more than to get attention from others are going to distance themselves from people below their level of intelligence. It can end up with them being socially inexperienced for a while.

Furthermore, there are people like that who are extreme and find ways to cannibalize their social skills for more processing power. Like visualizing thought experiments while walking around minimally interacting with the world, ignoring anything that isn't an immediate threat.

>> No.3163040

>>3163031
>Feynman wasn't an extrovert
>Feynman was friendly and charming, who made friends easily and was a womanizer, but he also definitely preferred to spend most of his time thinking his own thoughts.
Whatever you say, buddy. It's painfully obvious that extrovert/introvert is a false dichotomy.

>> No.3163042

>>3163025
>this guy sounds like an idiot
Or maybe he is just having fun in life while he is still young ? Ever think of that you sheltered aspie ?

If you don't lose your virginity before the age of 16, you are hardly a normal human being anyway, btw, this goes for everyone. Extrovert/Introvert are bullshit, yes, but autism is real and it is scary.

>> No.3163048

>>3163034
>>3163034
>>3163034
>>3163034
>>3163034
truth

>> No.3163047

the funniest part of all you people calling bullshit on personality types is that Carl Jung was likely about 4000 times smarter and more knowledgeable of the world than you will ever be.

>> No.3163045

>>3163036
>The higher the IQ, the less people who are your equal. Thus if you seek conversation at your own level, you are in trouble.

I know; I suffer from this problem all the time.

>> No.3163051

>>3163023

It does for me. If I could explain how I made that theory, I would.

>> No.3163055

>>3163042
>If you don't lose your virginity before the age of 16, you are hardly a normal human being anyway

S'up, Scientist. I know how much you think that everyone who isn't having sex with everything that moves is a luddite religionfag, but...

>> No.3163057

>>3163036
The higher the IQ the higher a shitty number on some pseudo scientific test, IQ = poop.

>> No.3163060

>>3163040
It's painfully obvious that you are determined to insist on your own private definitions of introvert/extrovert, and then complain that when you do so, the generalizations people make about introverts and extroverts don't hold true.

>> No.3163061

>>3163051
>this has nothing to do with supporting or falsifying the theory
>It does for me.
That is not how science works.

>> No.3163062

>>3163055
No no no, I just think that people who are incapable of basic human instincts/nature are likely damaged in some way. That is all.

>> No.3163063

Why do you feel the need to be bigoted towards "stuck up virgin nerd pieces of shit"? How is being ruled by hubris any different from being ruled by anxiety?

>> No.3163064

>>3163060
>hurp durp there are only 2 kinds of people
Stop this simplistic bullshit.

>> No.3163067

>>3163064
Give it up, he is an aspie, he has no insight into ANYTHING.

>> No.3163069

>>3163061

I never said it was a theory, I said that's how I wrap my head around the concepts. It's better then just spouting "extraverts like people, introverts don't". I also stated it was far from the scientific method.

>> No.3163070

this thread is just /v/ but instead of videogames, it's ''science.''

>> No.3163068 [DELETED] 

>>3163047
>>argument from autorithy.
We could say the same thing about newton, the guy was smart but he wasnt right about everything, after all he didnt had the tools to make
the right conclusions.
Psychology lack the tools to fully understand how the brain really works, right now it just works as a game of guessing.

>> No.3163075

>>3163063
I don't think you know what hubris means.

>> No.3163072

>>3163042
umad? nigga please gloating loadly about your supposed sexual escapades in public is full retard.
>protip: he's looking for validation because he feels inadequate

>> No.3163081

>>3163060
>>3163060

But these generalizations are backed up with data! Assuming these generalizations are those that the OP specified in his post.

>> No.3163084

sad that this is necessary but since people are being retarded about the defintions...
Extroversion:
The act, state, or habit of being predominantly concerned with and obtaining gratification from what is outside the self

Introversion:
the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life

taken from m-w.com
note that NEITHER of these definitions pigeonhole the social skills or ability to maintain a social life of either type.

>> No.3163086

>>3163075
I don't think you know what "think" means.

>> No.3163087

>>3163047
>>argument from autorithy.
We could say the same thing about newton, the guy was smart but he wasnt right about everything, after all he didnt had the tools to make
the right conclusions.
Psychology lack the tools to fully understand how the brain really works, right now it just works a game of guessing.

>> No.3163088

>>3163057
IQ is a real, scientifically validated phenomenon. People who score high on one IQ test score high on all of them. IQ is 80% correlated with vocabulary size. etc etc

>> No.3163089

>>3163072
He wasn't gloating, he was just announcing it happily to one of his companions, in a loud way because he was not ashamed.

>> No.3163103

>>3163075
You can't see the link between hubris and bigotry?

>> No.3163106

>>3163062
yes i am a virgin because i am completely 'incapable' of natural instinct. because every time i see a hot girl i dont start having sex with her right there like a fucking gorilla. thats why

>> No.3163109

>>3163089
>announcing loudly on bus
>announcing happily to one of his companions, in a loud way
pick one

>> No.3163112

>>3163103
Nah. Bigotry is generally about finding a scapegoat for your sense of failure and disenfranchisement. Hubris is extreme unwarranted self-confidence, and has nothing to do with irrational hatred for a subset of people.

>> No.3163120

>>3163087
do you study psychology and the methods they use? if so what are your specific concerns regarding the efficacy of their methods. please cite specific examples of flaws in their methodology.

>> No.3163124

>>3163109
OP here, second one. There is no logic why someone would just yell to a strange crowd some thing, unless he was trying to prove something to himself. Which was not the case. I am arguing that true smart people have normal and healthy lives and do not live a sheltered lifestyle that is all.

>> No.3163151

>>3163112
Putting down others is generally coupled with believing you are superior...

>> No.3163158

>>3163151
You've got it backwards. Putting others down is a sign of a sense of inferiority. People who are truly superior have no interest in belittling others - they are simply superior. They don't need to prove it to themselves, or anyone else.

>> No.3163181

>>3163120
No, i cant.
But i can smell bullshit and im telling you psychology is just as much bullshit as alchemy.

>> No.3163192

>>3163181
so, you know nothing about something, but are sure it's bullshit without actually looking into it? that does not sound very scientific. no offense, but uneducated opinions generally are not worth listening to. it is extremely useful to recognize what you don't know, and reserve judgment on something until you are educated on the subject.

>> No.3163196

>>3163192

You're being trolled bud.

Saging shit thread.

>> No.3163199

We can't just classify everyone into 2 personality types. I have tonnes of friends, and people say I'm great at engaging in conversations and stuff. I like being alone, biut I get energy from other people.