[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

View post   
File: 161 KB, 530x526, bitcoin530.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3160234 No.3160234 [Reply] [Original]

/sci/ let's talk about Bitcoin.

There was a thread on /sp/ a couple days ago where I was introduced to the concept and now I am utterly intrigued by it.

If interested, just google "bitcoin", last time I tried to post links I got banned for some reason. I figured this should go here because this is where I see most of the economics stuff anyway.

>> No.3160256

I tried starting the same /thread but you beat me to it. Here was my question:

How are these investors going to fail (technically, economically or politically) or are those who gambled on an unproven technology and currency destined to become the new Rothschilds, if they, the Rothschilds, haven't already bought themselves in?

>> No.3160262

>>3160256
I was referring to the miners/investors as opposed to the system/concept.

>> No.3160274

>>3160256
I would assume that putting large quantities of money into it is very very risky. So the reward for those who took the big risk will be massive if and only if the technology is successful. But they can probably expect to make some profit I guess because the BTC seems to be going up and up in value.

>> No.3160304

Fuck bitcoins. Only because I didn't buy them when they were <1 USD.

>> No.3160371

gonna bump real quick, hopefully a discussion might happen and the thread will be here when I wake up.

>> No.3160391

>>3160371 I second this bump, this needs to be discussed.

>> No.3160434
File: 229 KB, 900x729, Total_bitcoins_over_time.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3160434

just think about what would happen if this thing caugth on and a significant number of people would use them lets say a 100 Billion $ worth of transactions:
Then all the early investors would have made hundreds of millions by not really doing anything, or really contributing. Does that sound like a fair system to you?

>> No.3160475

>>3160434
Why does it matter if it's fair? How it is any different than someone who finds gold or oil on their land, is it any less unfair than that?

>> No.3160485

>>3160434
think about all the people that bought stock in companies before they made it big. they earned millions doing basically nothing, does that sound fair to you?

>> No.3160488

>>3160475
>>3160475
Fucking this.

The people who will become millionaires off this are the ones who apparently have already won the 21st century gold rush. It's the fuckin' wild west, bitches. You ready?

>> No.3160498

pointless nonsense. this won't go anywhere.

>> No.3160518

>>3160498
Why not? Any evidence to back that up, or is it just a "feeling" you have?

>> No.3160532
File: 121 KB, 644x752, 1271960940475.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3160532

>>3160518
from the wiki site for Bitcoin

"As opposed to conventional fiat currency, Bitcoin has no centralized issuing authority.[11] There is a limited controlled expansion of the monetary base hardcoded in the Bitcoin software, but it is predictable and known to all parties in advance.[1] This lack of a central authority can be seen as an advantage, because inflation cannot be centrally manipulated to effect redistribution of value from general users. Others see it as a disadvantage, as a central bank can serve as a stabilizing influence and reduce exchange rate volatility. Most national currencies are also guaranteed to be usable in certain cases, such as paying the taxes of that nation; bitcoins have no such guaranteed use."

In other words, it's about safety, and money supply.

But I DO think it's interesting

>> No.3160595

>>3160434
just look at that graph


And right now 99% of the people who use this are speculators.

And an other thing is right now I have no incentive to use this over anything else, it has no value by itself, but that by itself wouldn't matter as much if there would be an advantege in using it. There isn't any. If there would be that would likely be considered illegal.

>> No.3160619

>>3160595
they are saying that there is no exchange fees like what you would have with a bank. Also, if you dislike the Federal Reserve, I guess this is good in the sense that it is completely decentralized.

>> No.3160626

What if it starts getting used to launder money, that should rise the price of it. Steal a credit card buy 100 bitcoins from then sell them to someone else doing the same, that person does the same.

>> No.3160638

>>3160626
if it gets used for large scale money laundering authorities would be likely to crack down on it, making it more risky than it is now, driving price down.

>> No.3160650

>>3160638
This. Any mention of it being "on the wrong side of the law" would make it completely unusable for any legit businesses, leaving it as a currency for anarchist nerds.

>> No.3160702

Bitcoins are doomed to fail for this reason and let's assume there are no technologic weaknesses, which is a huge assumption, and also let's assume Bitcoins become commonplace:

This is really going to piss off the top banking Jews because they will lose some control, if not a lot of control, of the world's flow of money. You have to keep in mind this is not about antisemitism but understanding that the Jewish culture is based on a fear of persecution which consciously and subconsciously keeps them organized and working hard at taking control of as many resources as possible. The Jewish bankers will in turn put pressure on dominate global institutions and industries which run the governments of the world. The governments, probably lead by the US and the UK, will end this with legislation. Bitcoin becomes outlawed end of story.

>> No.3160709

I don't expect the dezians of /sci/ to follow this but the whole sudden popularity of the deep web is part of a very elaborate scam.
The deep web as you are beginning to find it has existed for decades. Something about it has changed in its very recent history. that is what it uses for currency.
The deep web now runs off bitcoins. If you don't know what these are i'll give you a quick rundown - they're an internet currency backed by nothing. you generate them by using CPU/GPU cycles to break cryptographic hashes.
They are currently worth 9x the value of the united states dollar. The only other use for them besides trading for USD is buying drugs and other illegal things on the deepweb. The advantage is the transactions are 100% anonymous
Do you really think the popularity of the deep web now is random?
It's being spread around in order to drive the price of bitcoins higher, so their original creators can cash out for literally millions of dollars USD.

>> No.3160742

Bitcoins are a novelty. They're going up only because of the sudden news hype they're getting. They aren't used for anything, demand is artificial. What happens when the first herd of tech idiots and stupid 4chan mouth breathers who buy into this runs out? Guess what, no one else will buy any of this shitty, worthless, currency.

It is a good concept and when a serious, credible company does this shit correctly (like gets popular websites to accept their currency before releasing it), then you should invest in it.

>> No.3160759

Why do we need more bitcoin threads? The currency is usually championed by those who have no desire to change their minds about it, ignoring any valid arguments against using Bitcoins.

>> No.3160768

>>3160742
Wow you are so p0wnd you don't even realize it. You're implying legitimacy only comes from a "company". So this would only work if like Visa and Mastercard got together and created it? They, nor, any other company with roots deep in the statue quo would ever want this to happen unless they could monetise it, that's what a "credible company" does.

>> No.3160790

What can I use bitcoins for that I can't do with any other currency? Unless there is something really interesting I can do with it I'd rather stick to a currency that has been around for over 2 years.

>> No.3160797

I just "took a gross dump" in my math book on page 211-212, then I closed the book and put it in a plastic bag and kicked it under my roommate's bed.

1) I need that book tomorrow to study and I'm afraid of what might happen over night. Will it cement shut?
2) How will I retrieve it without getting caught?
3) Is there anyway I will be able to sell it to someone after the summer session?

>> No.3160812

>>3160790
you could buy child slaves in the deep web, guns, drugs, and other novelties that are illegal in the real world

>> No.3160829

>>3160812
so its basically a currency for criminals and deviants. yeah, putting money into that sounds like a good idea.

>> No.3160844

>>3160829
Ah it's not all like that, but it is because the deep web is currently like that, sort of.

However, the idea behind the bitcoin is ingenius, and can be used for other products and services.

>> No.3160855

>>3160829

It's also great for tax evasion. That is, regardless of how many times the bitcoins transfer hands, no more taxes are applied to it.

>> No.3160863

PONZI SCHEME FOR NERDS
OP IS A SUCKER OR TRYING TO CASH IN ON THE SCAM
IT'S JUST A MONEY LAUNDERING SCHEME FOR THE RUSSIAN MAFIA
GOOGLE "FLOOZ"
CAPS LOCK, COOL, ETC

>> No.3160865

Interesting, but I wouldn't buy any because you can bet within a few years someone like Apple is going to announce a "totally new and ingenious online currency system" and masticate bitcoin alive

>> No.3162276

>>3160863
There are several articles around that discredit the notion that this is another "flooz".

Also, I JUST WANT 50 GODDAMN BITCOINS BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MINE FOR SHIT, FUCK. I don't know what client to use, but I think I might just leave an old computer thats always running anyway on.

>> No.3162284

>>3160434
It's a reward for setting up the system. Besides even if the author doesn't admit bitcoin isn't meant to be the final ultimate system, it's just a small-scale experiment.

>> No.3162311

>>3162284
>It's a reward for setting up the system.
So... does that make it more like a pyramid or ponzi scheme?

>> No.3162320

>last time I tried to post links I got banned for some reason

Posting links to known scam sites usually triggers that response.

>> No.3162327

>>3162311
It makes it more like finding a bunch of gold in your backyard and looking at your neighbors and saying "HAHA YOU DON'T HAVE ANY" and running off to live the good life.

>> No.3162341

>>3162311
That makes it more like giving options to the CEO.

>> No.3162337

>>3162327
...only you just found ordinary rocks, and you spray-painted them gold, and went around trying to sell them as equivalent to gold, saying, "ISN'T IT WONDERFUL NOW WE CAN CREATE OUR OWN MONEY FREE FROM THE BOUNDS OF GOVERNMENT!"

>> No.3162342

I mined something like 10 bitcoins, can't be arsed to do more. I'll wait till a bitcoin equals $10e6.

>> No.3162346

>>3162337
Can't transfer rocks on the internet.

>> No.3162358

>>3162346
Well you could, it would just cost some bitcoins to do so.

>> No.3162359

Can you buy things with bitcoins?

>> No.3162369

>>3162359

Silk Road you can get fucktons of drugs for bitcoin.

>> No.3162374

Too lazy to read the wiki article or all of this thread.

My question: Is this basically just a virtually simulated economy where services are provided and payed? Sounds to me like Minecraft, but with a proper economy...still autistic as fuck.

>> No.3162395

>>3162346
You can transfer ownership of rocks on the internet.

The thing is, the "mining" part of this is a meaningless game. It's a bit of misdirection to hide that it is fundamentally the same as if the creator just set up a play-money payment processing service, set his own account balance to high, and marked some other people's account balances at non-zero levels to promote it.

The only practical difference between how bitcoin works and just giving some flooz away, in smaller-and-smaller amounts to later-and-later joiners, is that bitcoin wastes far more electricity and more of people's time.

Like any e-playmoney, it still makes no sense at all to exchange anything of value for it. Like any pyramid scheme, it still makes far more sense to try and start your own scam than to let yourself be scammed in the hopes of scamming a bigger sucker down the road.

>> No.3162401

>>3162374
Never played Minecraft, so I wouldn't know. But, right now it's used heavily by the black market. And also used by legitimate stores and people online to pay for goods and services. The main attraction is it's at the very least pseudo-anonymous and the government/banks can't track/stop your money for any reason.

>> No.3162421

>>3162401
Intredasting. Do you see any long-term potential for such a service? Something that may be popularized and a lot more mainstream within the next few years? Or is it just a current fad? I might be interested in getting in before it gets too big.

>> No.3162424

Question. What if this was DESIGNED to fail...but not to fail until too many people are dependent on it. The creator of the program wants nothing to do with it anymore. But I could see the bitcoin economy crashing just as it becomes "too big to fail".

>> No.3162438

>>3162424
its an open source program; inspect for yourself.

>> No.3162443

>>3162438
Thank you, we really needed an injection of simplemindedness into the discussion.

>> No.3162450

>>3162443
I mean whether or not it is designed to fail is something falsifiable by looking at the source code.

>> No.3162482

>>3162450
A system can be designed to fail without having any of its basic components be designed to fail.

A monetary system can crumble while all of the banknotes remain nice and crisp and smelling like money.

>> No.3162495

wait roody-poos, you really think that this shit is going to work? It has no value, this is just ponzi scheme.

inb4 real money doesnt have value also

>> No.3162524

So in essence this bitcoin thing is a pure bubble scam?

>no no, our model is the trapazoid

>> No.3162526

you cannot "mine" something from the internet, that work does not create value thus bitcoins cant be used in rl as real rl money

>> No.3162543

Fads end eventually.

This one will too, and when it does, the value of bitcoins will crash.

>> No.3162544

>>3162342
what program do I use to mine bitcoins?

>> No.3162545

>>3162524
at this point, pretty much. Something could possibly change in the future if some jew banks decide to join and make something out of it, but i doubt they will venture into unexplored world while making extra profits now in real life.

>> No.3162547

Guys.

Bitcoin isn't backed by anything. Mining it is useless and inefficient. There are only 21 million in existence.
You cannot do anything with them and if you know anything about money/economics, you know it's a horrible idea.


If you have cash, use Paypal. It's trusted, well known, and has tenure.

Or, if you have money and you're thinking about REALLY investing, invest in gold, silver, or rice.

>> No.3162551

>>3162545

>implying jew bankers wouldn't hop on any opportunity to make extra money. Scams like this are what they think of while fapping

>> No.3162562

>>3162551
>doesnt know anything about risks and risk management

>> No.3162577

>>3162562

doesn't know anything about jews

>get in early, use your influence to get more people in after you

>can't fail!

>> No.3162586

>>3162577
although you are right, jews arent stupid ya know, they created this monetary system and mastered it, why would they bother about some shitty website?

>> No.3162646

>>3160234
Bitcoin is another stupid and useless scam and you're an idiot for wasting your time and computing power on it.

/thread

>> No.3162708

>>3162646
noob here, only watched a few videos and read a bit f the wiki. How is it a scam? Because the people who started it made money off it? So what?

>> No.3162734

>>3162708
Step 1: make up some numbers in your computer
Step 2: convince people that the difficulty of making these numbers makes them valuable, despite their uselessness (even though *yours* were pretty fucking easy to make)
Step 3: sell all your numbers
Step 4: watch as the suckers slowly figure out they were never worth anything except their attractiveness to stupid people, and everyone gullible enough to pay for this stuff has been found and had their money extracted already
Step 5: laugh down at the suckers from on top of your pile of money

>> No.3162753

>>3162734
So the people who just found out about it a few months ago when a BTC traded for <$1 and then bought up a fuckton of them are dumb? Because right now 1 BTC is almost $10.

>> No.3162758

Total scam, obviously

>> No.3162771

>>3162734
same could be said of every other fiat currency.
The dollar? Just a piece of paper.

>> No.3162775

>>3162771
Fiat currency doesn't work like
Step 1. I'm the first guy to find this currency so I magically get 1/3 of it.
step 2. The currency becomes harder to print as more people adopt it
step 3. The currency rises in value as more people adopt it

It's an obvious pyramid scheme.

>> No.3162778

>>3162775
> money is a pyramid scheme

>> No.3162787

>>3162753
>So the people who just found out about it a few months ago when a BTC traded for <$1 and then bought up a fuckton of them are dumb? Because right now 1 BTC is almost $10.
The fact that the price is going up shows that most of the people who bought them at $1 are NOT selling at $10, and therefore not making any actual money.

This kind of thing is common in bubbles: the price goes up and up, everyone figures it's a good investment and holds out for higher prices, pushing the price higher and higher... but only as long as almost nobody is selling. Then someone starts getting antsy and dumps his stuff on the market, and the price dips, which causes other people to start selling, which pushes the price further down, which causes more panic selling, and the price collapses: the investment bubble pops as everyone wants to sell and nobody wants to buy.

The value floor, which is quickly slammed into after the bubble pops, is mostly determined by things like use-value, and bitcoin only has trade-value (if nobody else wants it, there's no reason to own it), which means the value floor is 0.

>> No.3162788

>>3162775
The first guy who bought 1/3 of it obviously made a huge risk there, the currency might've as well not catch on and the guy could've lost everything.

>> No.3162805

>>3162771
>>3162778
Fiat currencies don't pop into existence. Rather than being commodity-based, they are service-based. Specifically, they are we-don't-shoot-you-based.

Fiat currencies happen when a powerful entity such as a national government insists that you treat some token as money. They back up their insistence with the force of law, which is in turn ultimately backed up by their power to shoot people and get away with it.

We treat fiat currencies as having value so we don't get shot by the people who have the power to declare things currencies by fiat.

So people are usually happy to get paid in we-don't-shoot-you money. Not so much for random-internet-person-says-so money.

>>3162788
>the guy could've lost everything.
Could've lost the time it took to write some open source computer programs? Please.