/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3157271]

Let's discuss the butterfly effect. Wouldn't the butterfly die in like a week anyway? How can that possibly change the future?

[Anonymous No.3157276]

It was the most intelligent being on the planet.

[Anonymous No.3157279]

the butterfly is the trunk of the entire butterfly family tree getting rid of it gets rid of a vast majority of butterfly's

[Anonymous No.3157280]

I might have a minor effect on the ecosystem.

[Anonymous No.3157282]

Butterflies have magical timeline-altering powers.

If you ever go back in time, you're fine as long as you don't kill any butterflies.

[Anonymous No.3157290]

You are actually a butterfly having a dream about being human.

[Anonymous No.3157295]

According to Chaos Theory, minor changes produce vast ripple effects. To observe this set up a feedback loop with a camera and record minor movements to see the ripple effects in action.

[Anonymous No.3157307]

Seriously though, it's not anything special about butterflies. It's named for an example used to illustrate chaos theory - that small changes in initial conditions can drastically change outcomes in chaotic systems (like the weather).

In a chaotic system, any small change in the initial conditions will grow into a large difference in the later conditions. It doesn't really have anything to do with butterflies.

[Anonymous No.3157316]

--copypasta incoming--

who is important? should we define the important as those whose actions have the greatest impact on the world? how do we determine the true impact of events when we cannot compare the state of the world to a world in which those events never happened?

since the future is to all intents and purposes unending it is only possible to determine effects within an incredibly narrow timeframe, with the nature of those effects subject to change with movement of that frame of reference. while the demanding treaty conditions of 1919 ensured french security in the near-term, in just a slightly more distant timeframe those same conditions had facilitated a bitter german resurgence that saw many more millions killed after the supposed "war to end all wars". an after-effect of this second war was the division of europe and a relatively slower pace of development in the eastern half that can still be felt several decades post-unification. there is no end point at which consequences come to a halt and we can pause to say "this was the final outcome". once events have taken place their after-effects continue in perpetuity in ways that are entirely unpredictable. the far future of the world will be continue to be shaped by the decisions made by a handful of men in versaille ad infinitum, only deviating ever further from endless unknowable parallel possibilities.

[Anonymous No.3157318]

--copypasta continuing-- (2/3)

while it is immediately obvious that momentous events such as wars shape the world it is equally true that every single action of every single person has exactly the same power. while it seems absurd that a choice of blue socks over grey could cause empires to rise and fall we must remember that over an indefinite timeframe everything can and will affect everything else. it is not merely every action of every person that has this power, but every interaction of every wave and particle. every mote of dust, every quanta of energy. every interaction has the power to change the nature of the next. it is exactly due to this incredible complexity in the universe that the future becomes ever murkier the deeper into it we try to gaze.

[Anonymous No.3157321]

--copypast finishing--

so where does this leave us? the footprints of causality are so softly trodden and so haphazard in their nature as to be impossible to track. in all our ignorance the most important person who ever lived could well have been little frankish boy who lived and died over 1200 years ago. perhaps one day he made a choice between scrubbing his boots or washing his hands for dinner. an old woman at a bakery in rome chooses one type of bread over another, a farmer in the hometown of confucius waits one more day before harvesting his rice. following a cascade of incomprehensibly intricately interwoven events that are still playing out to this day, one of these long-past choices could yet lead to global thermonuclear war and the other to the founding of a utopian society.

while it is certainly possible to say that some people's choices are more widely known than others, the continuing effects of any of the choices of any of the billions of unnamed individuals throughout history could easily outstrip the lifetime's contributions of our most celebrated heros. while the concept of "importance" is an almost universally accepted idea, and a practical social construct, beneath this veneer of plausibility we find the truth; there are no people who are more important than others, only those whose importance is better understood.

[Anonymous No.3157329]

For example

a butterfly 500 years ago flies infront of a man who was hunting a deer. The butterfly annoys him and he misses the deer. That means no food that evening and no sex with his women(lolrape her anyways) therefore no baby(which can also highly vary seeing how there are millions of sperms and even if they did reproduce the chance that the same sperm would win the race if the butterfly didn't annoy him is very small) that mans life will be completly different from that point on(he will make different choices and thus affect everyones else choices he comes in contact with, birds for example who will then spread the chain reaction to other continents) therefore completly different humans will exist because of that stupid fucking butterfly
>yes i am high as fuck right now

[Anonymous No.3157347]

cool copypasta bro

[Anonymous No.3157356]

>>3157307
>will grow into a large difference
You should rephrase to CAN grow. It may cause a tornado or may not.
I think OP is asking if the butterfly is a good example of the effect or this is impossible.

[Anonymous No.3157359]

chaos theory is the idea that the universe is just a bunch of variables acting upon variables acting upon variables into infinity

[Anonymous No.3157367]

>>3157271

The "butterfly effect" actually got its name from the Lorentz-attractor which looks like a butterfly and not the "herp durrrr butterfly can make tornado in asia lol durp" thing.

[Anonymous No.3157800]

ok. depeds? assuming you're speaking in present tense, that wouldn't make much sense.

[Anonymous No.3157831]

>>3157367
>Lorenz published his findings in a 1963 paper[3] for the New York Academy of Sciences noting[citation needed] that "One meteorologist remarked that if the theory were correct, one flap of a seagull's wings could change the course of weather forever." Later speeches and papers by Lorenz used the more poetic butterfly.

[genios !IhhOUf293M No.3157850]

>>3157367

I may be talking absolute rubbish, but if I remember correctly the Lorenz attractor had something to do with solutions for the PDE that makes up the Navier-stokes equation.

is that right?

[Anonymous No.3157888]

WTF IS THIS SHIT.

STOP TALKING NOW.

Chaos theory expect here.

It fucking simple.
Chaos theory its not a "theory" or an "opinion", it is a fact.
Just like gravity, but more obvious.

Chaos theory is basically a non linear plot.
The universe is a non linear plot.
So reality is pure "chaos theory".

For example, if i die not much would happen, my family would cry a bit and thats it.
But if USA president dies then all media runs and cries all day and they vote again etc.

The thing is that we are both people.
So according to a linear plot if any person dies, the same scale of "cryingness" would happen.

But since they are MORE variables in the real world( he's a president, am a lowly genius etc) different things will happen, which cannot be predict, the more variables the more unpredictive the outcome of the system, but still deterministic outcome.

So basically there are countless variables, thats why tiny little things might lead to big changes.
Actually, all things are caused by little things in the beginning.
Thats why it is even stupid to say "small things causes big things".
Thats why chaos theory is worthless outside actual scientific talk (not the hollywood crap you do here).

[Anonymous No.3157899]

>>3157888
>Chaos theory its not a "theory" or an "opinion", it is a fact.
>Just like gravity, but more obvious.
GRAVITY IS A THEORY TOO
You're not an expert if you don't understand what a theory is. Chaos theory is a theory, and that has nothing to do with "opinions". Theories are not "opinions".

Now, there is also the FACT of gravity - the simple fact that apples fall, etc. But explaining it with any kind of mental framework? That's the theory.

[Anonymous No.3157918]

>>3157888
It's hilarious how badly you contradict
>>3157316
>>3157318
>>3157321

Frankly, you sound like a moron.
>The universe is a non linear plot.
>So reality is pure "chaos theory".
And then you say
>Thats why chaos theory is worthless outside actual scientific talk (not the hollywood crap you do here).
And that clinches it. Just stop.

[Anonymous No.3157920]

>>3157899
I just said like "gravity".
I know the difference of scientific "theory".
It was obvious that i was being hyperbolic.
If you can't see through it then you should gtfo of /science/ and go to /v/.

[Anonymous No.3157930]

>>3157920
That's not what you said at all.
>>3157920
>Chaos theory its not a "theory" or an "opinion", it is a fact.
>Just like gravity

[Anonymous No.3157932]

>>3157918
You clearly didn't get anything in your head.

Reality is of chaos theory.
But it is pointless using it here, unless you want to solve equations with dat science.

You brain contradicts yourself.

[Anonymous No.3157934]

>>3157930
Sorry, second link is
>>3157888

[Anonymous No.3157940]

>>3157930
Why are you being so stupid?

[Anonymous No.3157944]

>>3157932
people think that reality chaos doesn't real, but it do.

[genios !IhhOUf293M No.3157949]

some of us are asking about PDEs and fluid flow
no need to get mean ;_;

[Anonymous No.3157958]

All i hear is about the definition of "theory", which i know obviously, probably before you were born, and i used it furiously in a sentence by exaggerating to make a point.

If grammar and that kind of semantics if your opinion then you should go to /lit/ this isn't a place for your kind.

[Anonymous No.3157962]

>>3157958
Yeah, these posts? Everyone knows you're trolling.

[Anonymous No.3157983]

You dense bruh? There are over 9000 possible outcomes for big events and they all depend on tiny differences in initial events.

[Anonymous No.3158021]

>>3157962

What is your understanding of chaos theory in relation to reality?

[Anonymous No.3158037]

>>3157958

>i used it furiously in a sentence by exaggerating to make a point.

No, you just made a severely retarded post and now you're furiously coming up with excuses, which ironically are making you look more and more retarded. Just stop posting.

[Anonymous No.3158049]

>>3157983

>over 9000

gb2/b/

[Anonymous No.3158071]

>>3157983

Do give an example

[Anonymous No.3158188]

>>3158049
What? There are over 9000, I just picked a large number to make a point, stop splitting hairs.
>>3158071
Butterfly flies in front of a young Adolf Hitler distracting his train of thought for a second, Adolf Hitler never comes up with the idea of stripping reality down to express feeling as opposed to his usual attempts to depict an idealized fantasy world, he fails to fully utilize his talents and is not accepted into art school, he becomes cynical and hateful as an unemployed failure and only finds a sense of place during ww1 in the military.