/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.3142886]

How is it possible to be aware of one's own existence?
If my brain is just regular matter, does it mean existence is possible to define by a symbolic logic interpreting other symbolic logic?
Or is there quantum shit in my brain that causes an infinite loop through time which diverges into self-awareness?

[Anonymous No.3142897]

>regular matter
as opposed to irregular matter?
Dude, there is nothing complicated about self awareness theres no deep meaning to it. Either you recognize that you exist or you're just a dumb animal that attempts survival without knowledge of its own existance.

[Anonymous No.3142903]

>>3142897
Does that mean that a computer program using simple logic could be self-aware? And by computer program I don't mean quantum computer.
The point of this is that is infinite divergence/convergence needed for self-awareness; i.e. does self-awareness prove that time travel is possible?

[Anonymous No.3142904]

I can program a computer to recognize its own existence. Does that make it self-aware?

[Anonymous No.3142909]

From the wiki:
>Self-awareness describes the condition of being aware of one's awareness. It is the awareness that one exists as an individual being. Without self-awareness the self perceives and accepts the thoughts that are occurring to be who the self is. Self-awareness gives one the option or choice to choose thoughts being thought rather than simply thinking the thoughts that are stimulated from the accumulative events leading up to the circumstances of the moment.

[Anonymous No.3142911]

>>3142904
OP here. No, if it is just:
program.exe: if exists program.exe printf("lol i am self aware")

I mean the ability for it to recognize that the computer program IS the thing that is doing that stuff.

[Anonymous No.3142913]

>>3142909
Yes I know how to read Wikipedia too, thank you very much. I was reading that article and became curious, which is why I posted this thread.

[Anonymous No.3142916]

>>3142903
>The point of this is that is infinite divergence/convergence needed for self-awareness; i.e. does self-awareness prove that time travel is possible?
what

dude are you high

[Anonymous No.3142920]

>>3142904
Yes. But unless you program it in such a way that it finds self-awareness profound, it will not feel the same way about being self-aware that you do.

[Anonymous No.3142925]

>>3142920
Stop spamming my thread faggot, that's not even what I am talking about.

>>3142916
yea xD smoke weed errrrrrrrrday
Kill yourself, faggot.

[Krakengineer !!5XY+x7grkpt No.3142929]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia

Wikipedia has a page about wikipedia. I don't see how having information about yourself in your mind is any more magical.

[Anonymous No.3142932]

>>3142925
It's a nonsequitur though. How the fuck do you get from a recursive definition to time travel?

[Anonymous No.3142933]

>>3142929
Does the Wikipedia page recognize it is a Wikipedia page?

[Anonymous No.3142936]

>>3142933
>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yep.

[Anonymous No.3142938]

>>3142936
No. It is not the Wikipedia page that recognizes it, but the humans who read and interpret that sentence.

I'm asking how can something interpret its own self?

[Anonymous No.3142945]

>>3142932
So you are saying something can just define itself? Why don't we have creatures popping up everywhere that exist because they want to exist?
The reason I am thinking time travel is because I do not think simple symbolic logic, by itself, Turing-complete or not, define itself.
However, when infinity is applied, all sorts of funky things can happen, such as divergence or self-causality.

[Anonymous No.3142948]

>>3142938
Easily. This is a well-understood topic in computer science. In computability theory they've found that when you encode a Turing machine as data, you can use that as input for another Turing machine. You can even run a Turing machine with its self as input. There's other neat facts too. A computer virus is capable of reproducing and executing its own code, for example.

[None !ynKiSyG7Wc No.3142950]

>>3142938
God.

[Anonymous No.3142954]

>>3142948
but the nested turing machines and the virus have to be run by someone within some intricate apparatus. complexity doesn't automatically lead to self-awareness.

[Anonymous No.3142956]

>>3142925
>>3142938

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with this. There are neural circuits in your brain that model everything you encounter, based on sensory data. This model distinguishes between you, the organism and accompanying neural circuits doing the modeling, and the rest of everything else. Maybe you find this profound because you think you're special or something, but you're just another piece of the universe, nothing special.

[Anonymous No.3142958]

>>3142954
And human beings have to be given birth to by other human beings. What's your point? Everything in the universe begins from something else.

[Anonymous No.3142960]

>>3142958
But I think the reason I was born is not because my parents fucked.
I think my parents fucked because I was born.
That's the difference in our thinking.

[Anonymous No.3142962]

>>3142956
Of course I am special. I am the only self-aware being in existence. Or at least that's what it seems like.

[Krakengineer !!5XY+x7grkpt No.3142964]

>>3142938 can something interpret its own self?

The ability of humans to do this is rather poor. We didn't even realise our brains were the source of our consciousness until a few centuries ago. Before that it was the heart, or some magical soul, spirit type thing. Humans are also quite often deluded about themselves.

[Anonymous No.3142965]

>>3142960
It's the same thing.

[Anonymous No.3142971]

>>3142965
holy shit, you just blew my mind

wait

You are saying that a computer virus could be programmed that way BECAUSE the computer system interprets it that way? Not the other way around?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
THANKS DUDE

No wait, that's illogical. Mind no longer blown. It's definitely not the same thing. Bacteria have adapted to my body, but I have not adapted into anything; the universe adapted to me.

[Anonymous No.3142976]

>>3142971
No, you're just confused about what words mean.

Computer virus is programmed X way. Therefore, computer system interprets computer virus X way.

Computer system interprets computer virus X way. Therefore, computer virus is programmed X way.

Both of these statements are true because of causality.

[Anonymous No.3142982]

>>3142962
Maybe you should read up on the Anthropic Principle. The only reason you think you're the only self-aware being in the universe is that you are unable of detecting others' self-awareness to the extent that you can detect your own.

Try taking some psychedelic drugs and experiencing what they call "ego death." That is what I would imagine it would feel like if your neural circuitry didn't have such a silly bias on what is "you" and what is "everything else in the universe."

[Anonymous No.3142985]

>>3142960

2
Therefore
1+1=2

This guy is spewing gibberish.

3/10
Because he's still getting responses.

[Anonymous No.3142990]

>>3142976
No, you see, up to this day I thought I was being "run" by something, like the universe, God, laws of physics, whatever. Now I realized it's all just me! I am the universe that defined itself!

>>3142982
Yes I want psychedelic drugs and also I want egolessness.
Neither are available to me at the moment, though. Perhaps in the distant future, but I doubt I have the willpower to work so hard.

[Anonymous No.3142996]

>>3142985
1+1
Therefore
1+1=2

This guy is spewing gibberish.

0/10
Because he didn't faze me for one nanosecond.

[Anonymous No.3143000]

>>3142985
It's okay to respond to trolls with questions like this. What if there are other people reading this board who actually don't understand these things? Discussion is not completely useless here.

>>3142990

Why is thinking that you're part of the universe that defines itself mutually exclusive to being ruled by physics, etc?

[Anonymous No.3143001]

>ctrl+f
>'strange loop'

/sci/ I am disappoint.

OP there's a book called "I am a Strange Loop" it explains consciousness in detail, and self-awareness.

Essentially, your neural connections refer upon themselves.

And yes, it is technically possible to describe your neural activity via symbolic logic, but not incredibly feasible. It's likely take billions and billions of books.

[Anonymous No.3142998]

>>3142990
Sounds like you're just having an existential crisis dude. It happens to most teenagers.

[Anonymous No.3143007]

Sounds like a pretty good book

[Anonymous No.3143023]

>>3142886
>quantum shit in my brain that causes an infinite loop through time which diverges into self-awareness

That doesn't even make any sense, nor does it mean anything. You kinda just threw words together randomly.

[Anonymous No.3143026]

>>3142996
>1+1
>Therefore
>1+1=2
Does not follow

[Anonymous No.3143036]

>>3143023
Does anything make any sense, or mean anything? Isn't everything just the sum of random things thrown together?

[Anonymous No.3143048]

>>3143036

This is exactly the type of 8th grade pseudo-philosophy that pisses me off, and makes everyone else think philosophy is some herp a derp field.

Yes things make sense, because humans made the word sense to describe things that they understand, and there are things that humans understand, so some things make sense.

Your trolling is bad and you should feel bad.

[Anonymous No.3143056]

>quantum shit in my brain
This explains everything!

[Anonymous No.3143067]

Consciousness is the summation of all sensory phenomena. Self awareness is this by extension. It is simply a complex method to perceive patterns and order in all-encompassing randomness and chaos. It's all merely a further threshold in expanding the efficiency of gene propagation.

[Anonymous No.3143070]

>>3143048
It's not trolling when it's youthful ignorance and naivety. By contrast, trolls are smart.